The Arbiter's Appearance (H5:G)

While I do have to say I loved seeing Sanghelios in the new demo, i’m a little bit iffy as a lore fan over the fact that the Arbiter and the Swords of Sanghelios all appear to be of the Hesduros sub-species, even though the Arbiter canonically isn’t of this sub species. I’m not 100% certain but he appears to have the Hesduros mandibles in this image: https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/games/halo-5-guardians/media/campaign-sunaion/h5-guardians-cinematic-campaign-battle-of-sunaion-plans-and-portents-127d216217514c00a7adbd73e3241d67.jpg

I have to say the game looks very good, but unlike Master Chief’s appearance in Halo 4 this can’t be easily explained away and i’d hate for it to be a retcon after how good Halo 2 Anniversary looked. Not exactly sure what to think.

His voice sounds weird. I know it’s been awhile since Halo 3, but still. His voice actings off as well, sounds “overdramatic” like Lockes voice.

> 2533274839414447;1:
> While I do have to say I loved seeing Sanghelios in the new demo, i’m a little bit iffy as a lore fan over the fact that the Arbiter and the Swords of Sanghelios all appear to be of the Hesduros sub-species, even though the Arbiter canonically isn’t of this sub species. I’m not 100% certain but he appears to have the Hesduros mandibles in this image: https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/games/halo-5-guardians/media/campaign-sunaion/h5-guardians-cinematic-campaign-battle-of-sunaion-plans-and-portents-127d216217514c00a7adbd73e3241d67.jpg
>
> I have to say the game looks very good, but unlike Master Chief’s appearance in Halo 4 this can’t be easily explained away and i’d hate for it to be a retcon after how good Halo 2 Anniversary looked. Not exactly sure what to think.

343 has confirmed over 6 times that it’s not a subspecies or linked to Hesduros. It’s just that Sangheili look different. You and me look different. We are not different subspecies. Thel’s appearance is artistic liscence to save resources. Why is it so hard for people to get this after 7 confirmations including one that is a paragraph long. And most of Jul’s Sangheili are from Sanghelios and other core worlds with some being from Hesduros.

The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?

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> The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?

Yeah, I was expecting this. It would have been totally fine with me. Honestly, I thought it was implied that Jul’s Elites may have come from a different race. It would have given us a canonical reason for such a discrepancy in designs. At this point, I think 343 only pulled the “Ibie’shan” Jackals out of their -Yoink- because they don’t look anything like the classic Jackals and fans called them out on that.

They’re just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff, despite the fact that most fans prefer the classic designs. I personally wouldn’t have minded the use of the new designs to separate Jul and Thel’s faction of the Covenant and to establish the diversity of the Covenant species. But 343 literally just copied and pasted Jul’s Covenant onto Thel’s…

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> > 2533274848433317;4:
> > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
>
>
> Yeah, I was expecting this. It would have been totally fine with me. Honestly, I thought it was implied that Jul’s Elites may have come from a different race. It would have given us a canonical reason for such a discrepancy in designs. At this point, I think 343 only pulled the “Ibie’shan” Jackals out of their -Yoink- because they don’t look anything like the classic Jackals and fans called them out on that.
> They’re just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff, despite the fact that most fans prefer the classic designs. I personally wouldn’t have minded the use of the new designs to separate Jul and Thel’s faction of the Covenant and to establish the diversity of the Covenant species. But 343 literally just copied and pasted Jul’s Covenant onto Thel’s…

Only Jackals have subspecies. The rest just have a variety of phenotypes like humans. Difference is that we can see that variety in humans and not in the covenant races. Even the Prometheans have more variety than the covenant in terms of visual appearance. Jul’s and Thel’s troops should be separated by armour and have variety in their visual appearance for all species.

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> > 2533274848433317;4:
> > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
>
>
> Yeah, I was expecting this. It would have been totally fine with me. Honestly, I thought it was implied that Jul’s Elites may have come from a different race. It would have given us a canonical reason for such a discrepancy in designs. At this point, I think 343 only pulled the “Ibie’shan” Jackals out of their -Yoink- because they don’t look anything like the classic Jackals and fans called them out on that.
>
> They’re just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff, despite the fact that most fans prefer the classic designs. I personally wouldn’t have minded the use of the new designs to separate Jul and Thel’s faction of the Covenant and to establish the diversity of the Covenant species. But 343 literally just copied and pasted Jul’s Covenant onto Thel’s…

There’s also the problem that Jul’s Elites were clearly designed to look feral and animalistic. This look fits them because they’re a ragtag splinter group. But Thel is supposed to be noble and sophisticated and when his Elites look and dress like Jul’s wifebeater brigade it just doesn’t fit on a visual storytelling level.

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> > 2533274929494620;5:
> > > 2533274848433317;4:
> > >
>
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> Only Jackals have subspecies. The rest just have a variety of phenotypes like humans. Difference is that we can see that variety in humans and not in the covenant races. Even the Prometheans have more variety than the covenant in terms of visual appearance. Jul’s and Thel’s troops should be separated by armour and have variety in their visual appearance for all species.

I felt that it was suggested that Jul’s Covenant may have belonged to different races due to where Jul found them. I think it would have created an interesting visual distinction between Jul and Thel’s Covenant. And I’m aware that Kig-Yar have numerous subspecies. It’s just that I think the introduction of Ibie’shan Jackals was only a “get out of jail card” because fans disliked how much they changed the Jackals. Otherwise, they would have given them gameplay differences, like the Skirmishers in Halo: Reach.

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> > 2533274929494620;5:
> > > 2533274848433317;4:
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>
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> There’s also the problem that Jul’s Elites were clearly designed to look feral and animalistic. This look fits them because they’re a ragtag splinter group. But Thel is supposed to be noble and sophisticated and when his Elites look and dress like Jul’s wifebeater brigade it just doesn’t fit on a visual storytelling level.

This is exactly what i’m getting at. It’s poor visual story-telling and comes across as lazy to reuse such assets. Thel’s Covenant should ideally look noble and sophisticated, while Jul’s should look more savage and less organized. It’s represented in their armour but I think it would have been interesting to see in their physical phenotypes. It would have made them contrast more, would have expanded the diversity of each species and it would generally be much more interesting to see.

> 2533274848433317;7:
> > 2533274929494620;5:
> > > 2533274848433317;4:
> > > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I was expecting this. It would have been totally fine with me. Honestly, I thought it was implied that Jul’s Elites may have come from a different race. It would have given us a canonical reason for such a discrepancy in designs. At this point, I think 343 only pulled the “Ibie’shan” Jackals out of their -Yoink- because they don’t look anything like the classic Jackals and fans called them out on that.
> >
> > They’re just changing stuff for the sake of changing stuff, despite the fact that most fans prefer the classic designs. I personally wouldn’t have minded the use of the new designs to separate Jul and Thel’s faction of the Covenant and to establish the diversity of the Covenant species. But 343 literally just copied and pasted Jul’s Covenant onto Thel’s…
>
>
> There’s also the problem that Jul’s Elites were clearly designed to look feral and animalistic. This look fits them because they’re a ragtag splinter group. But Thel is supposed to be noble and sophisticated and when his Elites look and dress like Jul’s wifebeater brigade it just doesn’t fit on a visual storytelling level.

This 100%

Its kind of hard to tell with the helmet on. His skin colour looks about right though.

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> > 2533274839414447;1:
> > While I do have to say I loved seeing Sanghelios in the new demo, i’m a little bit iffy as a lore fan over the fact that the Arbiter and the Swords of Sanghelios all appear to be of the Hesduros sub-species, even though the Arbiter canonically isn’t of this sub species. I’m not 100% certain but he appears to have the Hesduros mandibles in this image: https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/games/halo-5-guardians/media/campaign-sunaion/h5-guardians-cinematic-campaign-battle-of-sunaion-plans-and-portents-127d216217514c00a7adbd73e3241d67.jpg
> >
> > I have to say the game looks very good, but unlike Master Chief’s appearance in Halo 4 this can’t be easily explained away and i’d hate for it to be a retcon after how good Halo 2 Anniversary looked. Not exactly sure what to think.
>
>
> 343 has confirmed over 6 times that it’s not a subspecies or linked to Hesduros. It’s just that Sangheili look different. You and me look different. We are not different subspecies. Thel’s appearance is artistic liscence to save resources. Why is it so hard for people to get this after 7 confirmations including one that is a paragraph long. And most of Jul’s Sangheili are from Sanghelios and other core worlds with some being from Hesduros.

In all fairness that’s as may be but it doesn’t change the fact that their entire skull and jaw structure differs from the classic design. Kind of a bigger difference than between ‘you and me.’ So it’s ‘hard to understand’ why there isn’t a more clear canonical reason for these differences.

I like how they made it so the armor will attempt to cover Thel’s face so we can’t directly see how ugly they made him now.

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> > 2533275014949226;3:
> > > 2533274839414447;1:
> > > While I do have to say I loved seeing Sanghelios in the new demo, i’m a little bit iffy as a lore fan over the fact that the Arbiter and the Swords of Sanghelios all appear to be of the Hesduros sub-species, even though the Arbiter canonically isn’t of this sub species. I’m not 100% certain but he appears to have the Hesduros mandibles in this image: https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/games/halo-5-guardians/media/campaign-sunaion/h5-guardians-cinematic-campaign-battle-of-sunaion-plans-and-portents-127d216217514c00a7adbd73e3241d67.jpg
> > >
> > > I have to say the game looks very good, but unlike Master Chief’s appearance in Halo 4 this can’t be easily explained away and i’d hate for it to be a retcon after how good Halo 2 Anniversary looked. Not exactly sure what to think.
> >
> >
> > 343 has confirmed over 6 times that it’s not a subspecies or linked to Hesduros. It’s just that Sangheili look different. You and me look different. We are not different subspecies. Thel’s appearance is artistic liscence to save resources. Why is it so hard for people to get this after 7 confirmations including one that is a paragraph long. And most of Jul’s Sangheili are from Sanghelios and other core worlds with some being from Hesduros.
>
>
> In all fairness that’s as may be but it doesn’t change the fact that their entire skull and jaw structure differs from the classic design. Kind of a bigger difference than between ‘you and me.’ So it’s ‘hard to understand’ why there isn’t a more clear canonical reason for these differences.

The differences are fine. As a bio student I can tell you that with the same species there can be incredible variation. Look at human face structure. Also if an alien saw female and male humans they could think they are 2 different species yet we are the same. The reason 343i gave is great. What bothers me is that we don’t see differences in the appearance of aliens but humans get a ton of diversity in a game with alien allies.

They were never confirmed to be separated races, that was just a fan theory that never made much sense. People decided that since Jul started his group on another planet, that’s how Elites must have looked there. The thing is, he had members from all over. He himself was from Sanghelios, yet looked like the others. What we do know is that Elites from Jul’s region of Sanghelios have lighter skin than those from Thel’s region. That’s it. I don’t think they ever intended for the mandible changes to be limited to a particular group.

> 2533274848433317;4:
> The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?

People seem to think that this is a simple matter of copying and pasting. Those models are used on a completely different engine. They would have to completely recreate them which would take time.

Come on guys Grim already talked about this. Small stuff like this would be great, but the different elite phenotypes likely isn’t something high enough on the list of priorities when making this campaign and for good reason.

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> > 2533274848433317;4:
> > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
>
>
> People seem to think that this is a simple matter of copying and pasting. Those models are used on a completely different engine. They would have to completely recreate them which would take time.
>
> Come on guys Grim already talked about this. Small stuff like this would be great, but the different elite phenotypes likely isn’t something high enough on the list of priorities when making this campaign and for good reason.

I think making Thel look like Thel is a pretty good reason.

His face and armor have both done a complete 180. If someone didn’t read escalation or see the extra MCC cutscenes, they would only have his voice to go on for identifying him.

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> > 2533274833380875;15:
> > > 2533274848433317;4:
> > > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
> >
> >
> > People seem to think that this is a simple matter of copying and pasting. Those models are used on a completely different engine. They would have to completely recreate them which would take time.
> >
> > Come on guys Grim already talked about this. Small stuff like this would be great, but the different elite phenotypes likely isn’t something high enough on the list of priorities when making this campaign and for good reason.
>
>
> I think making Thel look like Thel is a pretty good reason.
>
> His face and armor have both done a complete 180. If someone didn’t read escalation or see the extra MCC cutscenes, they would only have his voice to go on for identifying him.

Armor changes, that’s just been a fact of the games. As for his face you only really see it once and that was in Halo 2. Every other time it was covered by mandible guards.

This is 343’s design of the elite so of course they are going to use it. Doesn’t mean the Arbiter really looks like that. It would require them to create a whole new model, textures and animations for just the Arbiter.

> 2533274848433317;4:
> The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?

No they couldn’t, because H2A runs on a different engine, and the cut scenes aren’t even a game engine.

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> > 2533274848433317;4:
> > The use of the Halo 4 designs for Thel and his Elites is pretty disappointing. They couldn’t just take those H2A models and use them, could they?
>
>
> No they couldn’t, because H2A runs on a different engine, and the cut scenes aren’t even a game engine.

They could use the models or just remake them from the very beginning. A single covenant nude model is not that expensive.

They’re just reusing assets for the sake of convenience. Instead of giving Thel 'Vadam and the Swords of Sanghelios their own models, they’re just reusing the same ones that all Sangheili have. It’s lazy and it annoys the hell out of me, especially since 343i has the time to remodel vehicles and weapons, and make Blue Team and Fireteam Osiris look all fancy and nice…

Apparently its perfectly fine if all the aliens look exactly the same. No biggie…