The Absolute BEST Solution to the "Rifle's" Return

Games Other Halo
1

I bring you, the BR Halo 2 E3 Demo.

Remember this?

Unscoped = Burst Fire

Scoped = Single Shot

^This right here would make the rifle in our Halo game so good and possibly the most balanced it has ever been! When unscoped, the BR would have the burst fire meaning you’d have to compensate for each individual shot hitting (good for close-medium range), but in order to cross-map people you’d have to scope in for more accuracy (single shot) and risk getting pinged out when shot at.

Just think about it, we’ve been asking for THIS weapon ever since we saw it. It’s essentially the Halo 2 BR and the Pistol/DMR (without the bloom) combined in one!

Note
-In this video it only shows the BR as single shot, but on the Halo 2 Limited Edition cd it showed actual gameplay with the BR as having both. They were playing a game on Lockout and it looked so badass!

2

This always gets me thinking, how fast would the scoped BR kill then? Assuming it kills in four shots unscoped, it would make 12 bullets. Now if we assume that it would take the same amount of bullets to kill when scoped, the kill time would be way too slow.

If we instead assume that the weapon would still kill in four shots when scoped, this would mean that the most optimal way of shooting at any range is scoped because you only lose one third of the bullets you would have lost otherwise.

I assume that it wasn’t removed just to piss off players. I believe there lies exactly this kind of balancing reason. I don’t see how that kind of weapon would work in a balanced manner. I believe there is a better solution for the utility weapon.

3

Competitive matches contain BR, Social matches don’t. then create a medium of “Social Competitive”.

Include searching for custom matches. We all win.

The BattleRifle was the greatest weapon because it required skill, and it created skill. Pick it up and use it, use it till you get good, then you will see why it was a good weapon. Not because it was Over Powered, but because it was the one weapon that made sense to use. Pistols are meant for last second use to get out at desperate measures. Shotguns are used for close range around the corner blasting. Rockets are used for group and vehicle destruction. Assault Rifles are used for Spray and Praying. Battle Rifle is used for skilled use.

The BR was a medium weapon. It created the balance between everything, but was choosen over everything because it was the medium weapon. The best of both worlds. That’s what it means to be a medium. Middle class. Average. It wasn’t a godsend holy grail of ultimate pwnage. It was a good weapon that needs no tuning. It worked. :slight_smile:

4

> This always gets me thinking, how fast would the scoped BR kill then? Assuming it kills in four shots unscoped, it would make 12 bullets. Now if we assume that it would take the same amount of bullets to kill when scoped, the kill time would be way too slow.
>
> If we instead assume that the weapon would still kill in four shots when scoped, this would mean that the most optimal way of shooting at any range is scoped because you only lose one third of the bullets you would have lost otherwise.
>
> I assume that it wasn’t removed just to piss off players. I believe there lies exactly this kind of balancing reason. I don’t see how that kind of weapon would work in a balanced manner. I believe there is a better solution for the utility weapon.

Oh definitely there must have been issues with the bullet counts and the such because say you have 12 shots (trigger pulls) in a clip and you shoot one single shot, then you’d have an uneven number of burst fire bullets.

Maybe a solution to that would be one single shot would take off 3 bullets (the same as a burst fire) and doing the same damage. Using the single shot in close range though would require scoping in with a 3x zoom and it would be hard to aim at such close ranges, especially when battles are more hectic anddddd you’d be getting pinged out of scope by being shot at.

5

Definitely agreed with this. The “downplay” of the BR’s power when scoped allows 343 to keep the “sandbox weapon ranges” without stupid/random mechanics like spread, bloom or non-hitscan.

> This always gets me thinking, how fast would the scoped BR kill then? Assuming it kills in four shots unscoped, it would make 12 bullets. Now if we assume that it would take the same amount of bullets to kill when scoped, the kill time would be way too slow.

I’m sure they can tweak the RoF on both “modes” in order to get the right kill times at each range.

For example:
Burst fire - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s at close-medium ranges
Single-shot - 0.2s between & 12SK = 2.4s at medium-long ranges

This makes it so that the BR is neither overpowering at super-long ranges, nor is the scope completely useless since not using the scope at longer ranges would yield much longer kill times due to inaccuracy.

6

No thanks. I prefer the regular H2 BR in H4.

7

> No thanks. I prefer the regular H2 BR in H4.

Halo 2 BR + host advantage = broken.

8

> I’m sure they can tweak the RoF on both “modes” in order to get the right kill times at each range.
>
>
> For example:
> Burst fire - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s at close-medium ranges
> Single-shot - 0.2s between & 12SK = 2.4s at medium-long ranges
>
> This makes it so that the BR is neither overpowering at super-long ranges, nor is the scope completely useless since not using the scope at longer ranges would yield much longer kill times due to inaccuracy.

Kill times are still a tiny bit too high.

This is a great idea and would also make room for a DMR.

9

> > I’m sure they can tweak the RoF on both “modes” in order to get the right kill times at each range.
> >
> >
> > For example:
> > Burst fire - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s at close-medium ranges
> > Single-shot - 0.2s between & 12SK = 2.4s at medium-long ranges
> >
> > This makes it so that the BR is neither overpowering at super-long ranges, nor is the scope completely useless since not using the scope at longer ranges would yield much longer kill times due to inaccuracy.
>
> Kill times are still a tiny bit too high.
>
> This is a great idea and would also make room for a DMR.

Like I said, it’s just an example. The kill times are purely hypothetical for demonstrative purposes, the actual RoF can be adjusted to whatever is appropriate.

My point was that you can adjust the kill times according to mode in order to balance the sandbox, as opposed to keeping them the same and having zoom be useless.

Let me elaborate…

With no altered shooting mechanisms
Burst - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s close-medium = SHORT KILL TIME
Single - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s medium-long = SHORT KILL TIME
This ruins the sandbox as the BR will dominate at all ranges.

With no changes to RoF
Burst - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s close-medium = SHORT KILL TIME
Single - 0.4s between & 12SK = 4.8s medium-long = IMPOSSIBLY LONG/USELESS KILL TIME
Makes the zoom function useless, you can kill even faster without using it, despite inaccuracies at longer ranges.

With function-specific RoF
Burst - 0.4s between & 4SK = 1.6s close-medium = SHORT KILL TIME
Single - 0.4s between & 12SK = 2.4s medium-long = LONGER BUT STILL REALISTIC KILL TIME
Allows a healthy medium without need of “random factors” such as bloom/spread/non-hitscan.

10

Relevant

11

> Competitive matches contain BR, Social matches don’t. then create a medium of “Social Competitive”.
>
> Include searching for custom matches. We all win.
>
> The BattleRifle was the greatest weapon because it required skill, and it created skill. Pick it up and use it, use it till you get good, then you will see why it was a good weapon. Not because it was Over Powered, but because it was the one weapon that made sense to use. Pistols are meant for last second use to get out at desperate measures. Shotguns are used for close range around the corner blasting. Rockets are used for group and vehicle destruction. Assault Rifles are used for Spray and Praying. Battle Rifle is used for skilled use.
>
> The BR was a medium weapon. It created the balance between everything, but was choosen over everything because it was the medium weapon. The best of both worlds. That’s what it means to be a medium. Middle class. Average. It wasn’t a godsend holy grail of ultimate pwnage. It was a good weapon that needs no tuning. It worked. :slight_smile:

The BR was not the greatest weapon. The Halo CE pistol was because it had low aim-assist and was single shot. Strafing was more effective in dogding shots from the pistol. A rifle that acted more like the pistol would make halo 4 the most competitive halo yet.

12

> The BR was not the greatest weapon. The Halo CE pistol was because it had low aim-assist and was single shot. Strafing was more effective in dogding shots from the pistol. A rifle that acted more like the pistol would make halo 4 the most competitive halo yet.

Personally, I would love if they brought back a weapon with the same mechanics as the CE pistol. Unfortunately, this most likely won’t happen.

See, the CE pistol was non-hitscan, as the game was entirely on LAN (by design, not including XBC). So at further ranges, you had to lead your shots. This made it so that the pistol was not OP’d at very far ranges, as it was more difficult to hit your opponent the further away you got.

However, now that the game is online, the latency makes non-hitscan weapons (excluding rockets etc.) far too unpredictable. Halo 3 tried and it failed massively, the bullet registration was garbage. 90% of what players feel is “better netcode” in Reach is actually just the inclusion of hitscan.

Unfortunately, hitscan takes away from this need to lead your shots at longer ranges. This makes utility weapons far too OP’d and hurts a large part of the weapon sandbox.

This is what ultimately lead Bungie to include the bloom function, as there must be some way to control weapon kill times at range. They do not want the game to be dominated by one, single weapon, nor do they want the majority of battles to only be at long ranges.

Thus, we need to give them an alternative or they will continue with features which introduce randomness: bloom & spread.

Like I said: I would not mind for one pistol to rule the game, however, 343 are ultimately game designers and they realize that doing so would push away a large portion of fans who do not agree with the Utility weapon/Pistol being the end-all-be-all. At some point we have to be realistic and come up with alternatives which fit into their own “set of guidelines” for the sandbox, or we risk getting none of the elements we seek.

If you can come with an alternative for how to handle ranges of weapons, then by all means I encourage you to post it! If it works, I will give my full support. However, at the moment, this idea of burst fire vs. single-shot for different ranges is the “lesser of all evils.”

13

> > The BR was not the greatest weapon. The Halo CE pistol was because it had low aim-assist and was single shot. Strafing was more effective in dogding shots from the pistol. A rifle that acted more like the pistol would make halo 4 the most competitive halo yet.
>
> Personally, I would love if they brought back a weapon with the same mechanics as the CE pistol. Unfortunately, this most likely won’t happen.
>
> See, the CE pistol was non-hitscan, as the game was entirely on LAN (by design, not including XBC). So at further ranges, you had to lead your shots. This made it so that the pistol was not OP’d at very far ranges, as it was more difficult to hit your opponent the further away you got.
>
> However, now that the game is online, the latency makes non-hitscan weapons (excluding rockets etc.) far too unpredictable. Halo 3 tried and it failed massively, the bullet registration was garbage. 90% of what players feel is “better netcode” in Reach is actually just the inclusion of hitscan.
>
> Unfortunately, hitscan takes away from this need to lead your shots at longer ranges. This makes utility weapons far too OP’d and hurts a large part of the weapon sandbox.
>
> This is what ultimately lead Bungie to include the bloom function, as there must be some way to control weapon kill times at range. They do not want the game to be dominated by one, single weapon, nor do they want the majority of battles to only be at long ranges.
>
> Thus, we need to give them an alternative or they will continue with features which introduce randomness: bloom & spread.
>
> Like I said: I would not mind for one pistol to rule the game, however, 343 are ultimately game designers and they realize that doing so would push away a large portion of fans who do not agree with the Utility weapon/Pistol being the end-all-be-all. At some point we have to be realistic and come up with alternatives which fit into their own “set of guidelines” for the sandbox, or we risk getting none of the elements we seek.
>
> If you can come with an alternative for how to handle ranges of weapons, then by all means I encourage you to post it! If it works, I will give my full support. However, at the moment, this idea of burst fire vs. single-shot for different ranges is the “lesser of all evils.”

Well personally I think that lowering aim assist would solve balancing issue and it could allow hitscan to be used since it is more effective in online play. Plus the reticule play a big part in aiming. The CE pistol had a crude reticule while the DMR has a very straight forward and easy to use reticule.

14

> Well personally I think that lowering aim assist would solve balancing issue and it could allow hitscan to be used since it is more effective in online play. Plus the reticule play a big part in aiming. The CE pistol had a crude reticule while the DMR has a very straight forward and easy to use reticule.

Yeah, lowering the aim assist would be sweet for sure! It’s one of the few elements that is purely based on player skill with little outside influence playing in.

Though it’s important to not go too overboard with that or risk losing potential new players.

A healthy balance is important but I still think we can go lower than Reach/CE.

15

> Relevant

100% agree with what you said in that post and I remember you from Bungie forums ;] Glad to see fellow enthusiasts return!

16

> > Well personally I think that lowering aim assist would solve balancing issue and it could allow hitscan to be used since it is more effective in online play. Plus the reticule play a big part in aiming. The CE pistol had a crude reticule while the DMR has a very straight forward and easy to use reticule.
>
> Yeah, lowering the aim assist would be sweet for sure! It’s one of the few elements that is purely based on player skill with little outside influence playing in.
>
> Though it’s important to not go too overboard with that or risk losing potential new players.
>
> A healthy balance is important but I still think we can go lower than Reach/CE.

Thats why the AR exists to help new players. An inexperience Rifle user should not kill an inexperience AR user at his respective range of fire. And of course an experience rifle user should kill an inexperienced AR user at his respective range.

Also strafing would become more effective and would allow players to counter any Rifles at longer ranges.

3 shot kill + No Aim-Assist + Hitscan = Balance in my opinion. I have talked with another gamer friend on mine who transitioned from COD to BF3 who actually likes how he is getting better at BF3. This is how halo was years ago and it return that way.

Feel free to add :slight_smile:

17

> > No thanks. I prefer the regular H2 BR in H4.
>
> Any weapon + host advantage = broken.

Fix’d.

Anyway, no, OP. Just no.

There’s nothing more annoying than being able to see your opponent, being told you can kill him, but can’t in reality.

This is what a 1 shot scoped BR does. You can see him, and being able to fire accurately is telling you that you can kill him, but the fact that you only fire one bullet at a time leads to an atrocious kill time which simply gives your opponent far too much time to find cover; making kills impossible unless they’re people or you’re team shooting. Halo 3/Reach focused too much on team shooting and competitive play turned into “wait for your team to spawn and push”. Aka, boring!

Plus assuming the BR was accurate un-scoped no one would bother scoping.

18

Put both in the game and see which one becomes popular!

19

> Thats why the AR exists to help new players. An inexperience Rifle user should not kill an inexperience AR user at his respective range of fire. And of course an experience rifle user should kill an inexperienced AR user at his respective range.
>
> Also strafing would become more effective and would allow players to counter any Rifles at longer ranges.
>
>
>
> 3 shot kill + No Aim-Assist + Hitscan = Balance in my opinion. I have talked with another gamer friend on mine who transitioned from COD to BF3 who actually likes how he is getting better at BF3. This is how halo was years ago and it return that way.
>
> Feel free to add :slight_smile:

Yeah, I wasn’t meaning that it should be anywhere as high as the AR, just that it should not go a drastic amount less than say CE.

BF is a twitch-based shooter so it can work but none at all is absurd for a game with Halo’s mechanics/kill times (unless it were to be on PC). Ever tried betraying multiple people with just a utility weapon?

Perhaps if it was 3SK then it would work but lettuce be reality: that’s not going to happen, it pushes away the “newer generation” far too much.

> Plus assuming the BR was accurate un-scoped no one would bother scoping.

Hence why the shots should be able to be fired more rapidly from scoped, in order to counter-act it and provide a balance between ease of shots and total kill time.

> Put both in the game and see which one becomes popular!

Or I suppose if they threw it into the Beta, they could see what the player reaction is before actually changing it too much.

20

> This always gets me thinking, how fast would the scoped BR kill then? Assuming it kills in four shots unscoped, it would make 12 bullets. Now if we assume that it would take the same amount of bullets to kill when scoped, the kill time would be way too slow.

Easy, burst fire doesn’t all ways hit the target with every shot, Semi you have more control over your aim, and instead of taking the recoil of 3 rounds being fired, you’re only taking recoil from one round at a time, gives you more time to adjust your aim.
But if that doesn’t work, they can make it so when you zoom in, you switch ammo type that deals more damage than a normal BR round. They did get it to work by in Halo 2’s beta, I don’t see why they can’t bring that BR back, I was disappointed when I first played Halo 2 and found out that it didn’t do that.