Are the species within the Swords of Sanghelios treated better in comparison to when they were in the Covenant. For example, are the Unggoy treated as actual troops rather than cannon fodder? Rtas 'Vadum cared for all species under his command, as did Thel 'Vadam, so is it possible that they made a social change on how to treat allies?
At this point we hardly know anything about the swords of sangheilios. We only just recently found out they were even called Swords of Sangheilios. Also, i don’t know if Rtas cared about the grunts, didn’t he say “These are my Elites, their lives matter to me” not sure if he cared about the grunts.
> 2533274975398392;2:
> At this point we hardly know anything about the swords of sangheilios. We only just recently found out they were even called Swords of Sangheilios. Also, i don’t know if Rtas cared about the grunts, didn’t he say “These are my Elites, their lives matter to me” not sure if he cared about the grunts.
His care for the grunts is shown in The Last Voyage of Infinite Succor when he tells the grunts to take cover behind the Elites when they realize the flood is on board the ship.
I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> 2533274926527272;4:
> I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> 2533274926527272;4:
> I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> 2533274908138382;5:
> > 2533274926527272;4:
> > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
>
>
> It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
I think it’d probably still fall under who they’re working with. I mean, i’m pretty sure the oppression of other species was an Elite and later Brute thing. The great journey doesn’t seem to play much into it, so I don’t see why the majority of elites would suddenly erupt in tolerance for other species.
If anything, they might have more rights ‘legally’, but still be treated terribly in some places, like racism on earth (not to get specific to avoid real world issue discussion).
> 2533274964189700;7:
> I think it’d probably still fall under who they’re working with. I mean, i’m pretty sure the oppression of other species was an Elite and later Brute thing. The great journey doesn’t seem to play much into it, so I don’t see why the majority of elites would suddenly erupt in tolerance for other species.
>
> If anything, they might have more rights ‘legally’, but still be treated terribly in some places, like racism on earth (not to get specific to avoid real world issue discussion).
I always thought there would be a sort of appreciation for aiding the Sangheili against the Jiralhanae, like a sort of “Hey thanks for helping us, we have more respect for you” type of thinking.
> 2535412156966977;8:
> > 2533274964189700;7:
> > I think it’d probably still fall under who they’re working with. I mean, i’m pretty sure the oppression of other species was an Elite and later Brute thing. The great journey doesn’t seem to play much into it, so I don’t see why the majority of elites would suddenly erupt in tolerance for other species.
> >
> > If anything, they might have more rights ‘legally’, but still be treated terribly in some places, like racism on earth (not to get specific to avoid real world issue discussion).
>
>
> I always thought there would be a sort of appreciation for aiding the Sangheili against the Jiralhanae, like a sort of “Hey thanks for helping us, we have more respect for you” type of thinking.
No…The Sangheili are an arrogant species. They care very little about the other races. At best…Grunts would be considered a servant race - worthy of strategic consideration in battle only. It would laughable to think that The Sangheili would give any degree of social status to non-Elites.
I am sure the only reason Rtas cared about The Grunts in Last Voyage was because he was looking to reduce the amount of Biomass the Flood could use. Grunts would be easily taken down and used against The Elites.
Elites care little about the other races beyond how they can be most useful given a situation.
> 2535412156966977;1:
> Are the species within the Swords of Sanghelios treated better in comparison to when they were in the Covenant.
We don’t really know anything about Sanghelios’ newly emerging society yet unfortunately.
> For example, are the Unggoy treated as actual troops rather than cannon fodder? Rtas 'Vadum cared for all species under his command, as did Thel 'Vadam, so is it possible that they made a social change on how to treat allies?
I’d say it’s possible. I’d go as far as saying that it is probable. The old Covenant was a defunct system plagued with uprisings, rebellions and constant racial tension. From that I can imagine that the inter-species homicide rates were quite high due to strong racial hate flowing through Covenant society and a general lack of interest in the well being of the lower castes by the proper judicial system. It was all held together by the faith, the Sangheili’s ability to project military power and the San-Shyuum controlling the distribution of Forerunner relics.
The faith is almost entirely gone, the Sangheili are broken into factions with reduced military power and the San-Shyuum aren’t around any more. There’s little to bind these races together now. The Sangheili can’t really afford to battle each other and also battle uprisings from client races. It would stretch them too thin I would imagine, so there would be more incentive to seek other ways of reducing these problems aside from military solutions.
Additionally, granting certain long held requests and demands held by the client races such as freedom and equal citizenship would suddenly make one faction look more preferable to serving in and helping as opposed to another. Thel could get a serious boost to his power-base if his group looks more progressive than Jul 'Mdama’s camp. Many in the former client races would want to serve him in return for him granting them safety because there they would receive better treatment. They would support Thel’s group with resources, technology and other partnerships if Thel’s group is the one that will guarantee a better future for them as opposed to a return to the old system. I think that because the Sangheili are infighting, the better Sangheili will win basically - and “better” from the perspective of the client races would mean granting better treatment and equality for the other races, who cannot be overlooked in the struggle for which Sangheili faction emerges victorious.
Another reason is that Thel is seeking out allies to build relations and partnerships with, and chief among them seems to be the UNSC. A main point behind this (But not the only point) may be because of humanity’s rapid advancement and independent successes. These things wouldn’t have been achievable if humanity was a subjugated race with severe imposed limitations. Thel can very easily realise that by encouraging the other races to be independent and by backing capacity building among them that he can build stronger partnerships and alliances like the one he has with the UNSC, which again gives him an edge over those who choose to stick to the stifling system of before.
Finally, Thel seems like he is carrying a lot of guilt over his own actions during the war, and by reflecting on what he and his people did to humanity he could very easily have similar reflections on what his people did to the other races. His wish to make long amends with humanity could extend to the other races as well. In trying to build an effective working relationship with the UNSC, eliminating racial prejudice between Sangheili and humans would be a top priority for the long term. There’s no reason why the arguments used by him and his followers in favour of humanity couldn’t eventually be used for the other races as well.
I’d be rather surprised if things haven’t substantially changed, to be honest, given all the advantages Thel would have if he abolished the caste system, and also rather disappointed at 343i’s inability to think outside the box and consider these kinds of details with relation to continuing the setting.
> 2533274800842897;9:
> I am sure the only reason Rtas cared about The Grunts in Last Voyage was because he was looking to reduce the amount of Biomass the Flood could use. Grunts would be easily taken down and used against The Elites.
That line by Rtas was said immediately after his first ever encounter with the Flood, before he saw it’s parasitic nature first-hand (That encounter involved no infection of live or dead hosts) and before his briefing with the Minister of Etiology on the nature of the Flood. As he did not know about the Flood’s parasitic tendencies at that time, denial of biomass could not have been a factor.
> 2535412156966977;6:
> > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
>
>
> There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
Oh, I miss took Swords of Sangheilos for the Ussan Colony that was never apart of the Covenant and only just returned to Sangheilos in 2553.
> 2533274908138382;11:
> > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
>
>
> Oh, I miss took Swords of Sangheilos for the Ussan Colony that was never apart of the Covenant and only just returned to Sangheilos in 2553.
Speaking of the Ussans, I wonder about their relation with the Swords of Sanghelios since they were the first to successfully rebel against the Covenant.
> 2535412156966977;12:
> > 2533274908138382;11:
> > > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh, I miss took Swords of Sangheilos for the Ussan Colony that was never apart of the Covenant and only just returned to Sangheilos in 2553.
>
>
> Speaking of the Ussans, I wonder about their relation with the Swords of Sanghelios since they were the first to successfully rebel against the Covenant.
They’d probably get along, if we’re basing this on the fact both parties now know the Covenant and the Great Journey was a lie.
> 2533274835068816;10:
> > 2535412156966977;1:
> > Are the species within the Swords of Sanghelios treated better in comparison to when they were in the Covenant.
>
>
>
>
> We don’t really know anything about Sanghelios’ newly emerging society yet unfortunately.
>
>
>
> > For example, are the Unggoy treated as actual troops rather than cannon fodder? Rtas 'Vadum cared for all species under his command, as did Thel 'Vadam, so is it possible that they made a social change on how to treat allies?
>
>
>
>
> I’d say it’s possible. I’d go as far as saying that it is probable. The old Covenant was a defunct system plagued with uprisings, rebellions and constant racial tension. From that I can imagine that the inter-species homicide rates were quite high due to strong racial hate flowing through Covenant society and a general lack of interest in the well being of the lower castes by the proper judicial system. It was all held together by the faith, the Sangheili’s ability to project military power and the San-Shyuum controlling the distribution of Forerunner relics.
>
> The faith is almost entirely gone, the Sangheili are broken into factions with reduced military power and the San-Shyuum aren’t around any more. There’s little to bind these races together now. The Sangheili can’t really afford to battle each other and also battle uprisings from client races. It would stretch them too thin I would imagine, so there would be more incentive to seek other ways of reducing these problems aside from military solutions.
>
> Additionally, granting certain long held requests and demands held by the client races such as freedom and equal citizenship would suddenly make one faction look more preferable to serving in and helping as opposed to another. Thel could get a serious boost to his power-base if his group looks more progressive than Jul 'Mdama’s camp. Many in the former client races would want to serve him in return for him granting them safety because there they would receive better treatment. They would support Thel’s group with resources, technology and other partnerships if Thel’s group is the one that will guarantee a better future for them as opposed to a return to the old system. I think that because the Sangheili are infighting, the better Sangheili will win basically - and “better” from the perspective of the client races would mean granting better treatment and equality for the other races, who cannot be overlooked in the struggle for which Sangheili faction emerges victorious.
>
> Another reason is that Thel is seeking out allies to build relations and partnerships with, and chief among them seems to be the UNSC. A main point behind this (But not the only point) may be because of humanity’s rapid advancement and independent successes. These things wouldn’t have been achievable if humanity was a subjugated race with severe imposed limitations. Thel can very easily realise that by encouraging the other races to be independent and by backing capacity building among them that he can build stronger partnerships and alliances like the one he has with the UNSC, which again gives him an edge over those who choose to stick to the stifling system of before.
>
> Finally, Thel seems like he is carrying a lot of guilt over his own actions during the war, and by reflecting on what he and his people did to humanity he could very easily have similar reflections on what his people did to the other races. His wish to make long amends with humanity could extend to the other races as well. In trying to build an effective working relationship with the UNSC, eliminating racial prejudice between Sangheili and humans would be a top priority for the long term. There’s no reason why the arguments used by him and his followers in favour of humanity couldn’t eventually be used for the other races as well.
>
> I’d be rather surprised if things haven’t substantially changed, to be honest, given all the advantages Thel would have if he abolished the caste system, and also rather disappointed at 343i’s inability to think outside the box and consider these kinds of details with relation to continuing the setting.
>
>
>
> > 2533274800842897;9:
> > I am sure the only reason Rtas cared about The Grunts in Last Voyage was because he was looking to reduce the amount of Biomass the Flood could use. Grunts would be easily taken down and used against The Elites.
>
>
> That line by Rtas was said immediately after his first ever encounter with the Flood, before he saw it’s parasitic nature first-hand (That encounter involved no infection of live or dead hosts) and before his briefing with the Minister of Etiology on the nature of the Flood. As he did not know about the Flood’s parasitic tendencies at that time, denial of biomass could not have been a factor.
I agree. The majority of the information provided to us is mostly military information rather than social. The only things we know about the Swords of Sanghelios post-war is that they are beginning to upgrade their ships, have many colonies under their control including some within the Joint Occupation Zones, are researching archives on Sanghelios, and are involved in studying and defending the Halo Array alongside the UNSC. While all the information is quite interesting I am still very curious as to how Thel is reforming Sangheili society and their relations with other species.
> 2535412156966977;6:
> > 2533274926527272;4:
> > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
>
>
> There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
So? At that point they all still considered themselves part of the Covenant. And plenty more Unggoy and Lekgolo sided with the Jiralhanae and Prophets, as seen in Halo 3
> 2533274948977546;15:
> > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
>
>
> So? At that point they all still considered themselves part of the Covenant. And plenty more Unggoy and Lekgolo sided with the Jiralhanae and Prophets, as seen in Halo 3
We can’t really determine which side had more since Bungie decided not to add the Sangheili-allied unggoy and lekgolo so as to not confuse the player.
> 2535412156966977;16:
> > 2533274948977546;15:
> > > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
> >
> >
> >
> > So? At that point they all still considered themselves part of the Covenant. And plenty more Unggoy and Lekgolo sided with the Jiralhanae and Prophets, as seen in Halo 3
>
>
> We can’t really determine which side had more since Bungie decided not to add the Sangheili-allied unggoy and lekgolo so as to not confuse the player.
Not to mention the game is an extremely small sample size of the overall conflict.
> 2533274964189700;17:
> > 2535412156966977;16:
> > > 2533274948977546;15:
> > > > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So? At that point they all still considered themselves part of the Covenant. And plenty more Unggoy and Lekgolo sided with the Jiralhanae and Prophets, as seen in Halo 3
> >
> >
> >
> > We can’t really determine which side had more since Bungie decided not to add the Sangheili-allied unggoy and lekgolo so as to not confuse the player.
>
>
> Not to mention the game is an extremely small sample size of the overall conflict.
Which is unfortunate. I would’ve loved to have seen the Sangheili containment fleet in action, at least at the Ark, if not at Installation 05.
> 2533274908138382;18:
> > 2533274964189700;17:
> > > 2535412156966977;16:
> > > > 2533274948977546;15:
> > > > > 2535412156966977;6:
> > > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > > > > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > > > > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So? At that point they all still considered themselves part of the Covenant. And plenty more Unggoy and Lekgolo sided with the Jiralhanae and Prophets, as seen in Halo 3
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We can’t really determine which side had more since Bungie decided not to add the Sangheili-allied unggoy and lekgolo so as to not confuse the player.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not to mention the game is an extremely small sample size of the overall conflict.
>
>
> Which is unfortunate. I would’ve loved to have seen the Sangheili containment fleet in action, at least at the Ark, if not at Installation 05.
It would have been wonderful to see the entire Sangheili fleet during the Battle of Installation 05 or the quarantine of High Charity.
> 2535412156966977;6:
> > 2533274926527272;4:
> > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274908138382;5:
> > > 2533274926527272;4:
> > > I honestly think that the Swords are elites only. If any of the other species are related, I don’t think it is as close as before. Certainly not all one civilization like the Covenant.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is called “The Swords of Sangheilos” after all… As far as we know, it’s a Sangheili-only group, and considering all other species came well after their establishment, I don’t think any other race would have joined them.
>
>
> There are many instances where we see Sangheili-allied Unggoy and Mgalekgolo as shown in Halo 2 during the Great Schism. Unggoy and Kig-Yar of the Swords of Sanghelios are also shown in Halo: Escalation Issue 1 fighting Brutes.
But are they under the same government, or simply allies? After all they have really no reason to stay together, and the “Swords of Sangheilios” sounds more like a government of the Sangheili rather than another covenant of species.