Support Thread for a Competitve Halo 4 (Sign It!)

The following 5 elements are essential for providing a competitive experience in Halo 4.

  1. Sandbox Weapon Balance (threesixxero has a great post covering this topic, I’ll just summarize the key points)

There are 3 classes of weapons: power weapons (sniper, rockets, etc.), regular weapons (AR, needler, etc.), and utility weapons (god pistol, BR, etc.). These 3 classes need to work together seamlessly, with no weapon being too strong or too weak. Power weapons are almost exclusively insta-kill, but are balanced by having long spawn times and/or requiring much skill (sniper). The regular weapons class has the greatest variety of weapons, and each weapon should fill a different niche, or role, with minimal overlapping. Utility weapons specialize in medium range, but should not be limited to that. A kill with the minimum amount of shots required from a utility weapon should beat any regular weapon in its own niche, simply because the utility weapon is the most skill intensive weapon in the game, except for the sniper. An average utility weapon user should be limited to medium range, and should get dominated by a regular weapon in its niche.

  1. Skill Gap

Each weapon class should contribute to the skill gap in a unique way. Power weapons encourage teamwork to secure the weapon, and also awareness of when the weapon will respawn (spawn timing). But no power weapon should guarantee free kills, and should take some amount of skill to use effectively (yes, even the sword). With regular weapons the key is knowledge (knowing what niche each weapon is most effective in). Also, the ability to force encounters to play to your weapon’s niche is very important. Aim is the largest factor with utility weapons. Since they kill slightly faster than regular weapons, they are very difficult to use to compensate. Utility weapons should have a large gap between the fastest possible kill time and the average kill time (how fast an average user can kill with it).

  1. Perfect Kill Times

Kill times determine the balance between slow and fast-paced, as well whether a game is individual or teamwork-oriented. The ideal kill times for Halo are somewhere between CE’s and H2’s, which both were medium-paced games that valued teamwork and individual skill equally. The CE pistol killed in 0.6 seconds, while the H2 BR killed in 1.4. So the ideal utility weapon should kill in around 1.0 second (remember, though, it is very difficult to achieve this). Regular weapons should be balanced accordingly, with kill times somewhere in the 1.2-1.4 second range, so they will still dominate the average utility weapon user in their respective niches. Power weapons are typically insta-kills.

  1. Grenade and Melee

Grenades and melee are crucial to Halo gameplay, forming two thirds of the Halo “triangle.” They should work in tandem with weapons, not dominate them (as we saw in Reach), nor should they be useless. In Halo, grenades and melee should assist your weapon in getting kills, rather than being individual weapons themselves that can pick up kills unassisted.

  1. Casual Playlists

Having casual playlists in MM is possibly the most important part to providing solid competitive gameplay. Here, casual players looking to play exclusively for fun can have equipment, vehicles, and even AAs without comprising competitive gameplay. It’s almost impossible to find the perfect balance between competitive and casual gameplay, so they should be kept separate.

Thoughts? Please give feedback on what you think.

Update: Thanks for the feedback everyone! So far we have 55 agrees/signs. Let’s keep this thread alive!

All true, especially keeping Casuals in their own domain. That way they can always play the way they want, or if they are feeling bold, look up at the competitive playlist and dream.

I mainly agree, but the utility weapon killing in 1 second seems like it might be a little too quick as far as something like the BR, and AA’s should not return even in the social playlists.

Keep itcompetitive at heart, but add a tiny sprinkle of elements that may appeal to casuals.

This is the way Halo CE and H2 was.

Very good article. Completely agree, other than the rather short kill time. 1 second seems too short.

Yes!

> I mainly agree, but the utility weapon killing in 1 second seems like it might be a little too quick as far as something like the BR, and AA’s should not return even in the social playlists.

Slow kill times have brought about the decline of Halo. From CE’s quick kill times (pistol killed in 0.6 seconds, AR in 1.0), kill times have got progressively slower, and Halo games have gotten progressively worse. Instead of lengthening kill times if a utility weapon seems slightly OP, the difficulty should be increased, so that the average kill time goes up but the skill gap is still large and allows very skilled players to get quick kills.

Bring back SOCIAL and RANKED playlists

That is all I have to say

But everything else on here… I know what you are trying to say it just sounds really complex haha… I agree though.

> 1. Sandbox Weapon Balance
> 4. Grenade and Melee
>
> Thoughts? Please give feedback on what you think.

I’m perfectly fine with the competitive players tailoring their part of the game to their wants. Just so long as it doesn’t go beyond that into forcing everyone to play by their rules.

I personally feel that having a versatile midrange weapon that can beat niched weapons in their own range simply because it takes more skill basically invalidates all of the niched weapons of the sandbox. Why bother having them anymore? Cut to the chase and throw them all away or make it so that an AR will beat the DMR by a significant margin in the AR’s own range. Not to mention that if skill is the issue, why not make the normal weapons more skillful to use?

Concerning Grenades and melees? If they only assist weapons in getting kills then to me they aren’t weapons, just tools. And they aren’t part of the Golden Triangle anymore. Instead the Golden Triangle just becomes a Golden Line.

> Very good article. Completely agree, other than the rather short kill time. 1 second seems too short.

Why? If the sandbox is balanced accordingly and the difficulty is increased to the point where only very skilled players can achieve 1 second kills, there’s no problem. Look at CE. The pistol killed in 0.6 seconds, but because of its huge skill gap, it wasn’t much of a problem. Average kill times are much more important than minimum kill times regarding whether a weapon is OP or not. If the utility weapon kills in 1.0 seconds, but has an average kill time of 2.0 seconds, while everything else kills in 1.5, you could even make the case that it is underpowered. See what I mean? Recent Halo games have made minimum kill times of utility weapons too easy to achieve. The H3 BR was never OP, it’s just that 4 shots were too easy.

> I mainly agree, but the utility weapon killing in 1 second seems like it might be a little too quick as far as something like the BR, and AA’s should not return even in the social playlists.

In modern popular shooters fast kill times are key.

CE is actually what started that in all console FPS and the future of halo should follow CEs lead, not Reachs.

Also just becuase the main precision weapon is beast doesnt mean all other weapon have to shoot marshmallows. H4 can follow CEs lead and give a god gun but equally strong alternatives, think CE shotty for ex

I agree.

> > 1. Sandbox Weapon Balance
> > 4. Grenade and Melee
> >
> > Thoughts? Please give feedback on what you think.
>
> I’m perfectly fine with the competitive players tailoring their part of the game to their wants. Just so long as it doesn’t go beyond that into forcing everyone to play by their rules.
>
> I personally feel that having a versatile midrange weapon that can beat niched weapons in their own range simply because it takes more skill basically invalidates all of the niched weapons of the sandbox. Why bother having them anymore? Cut to the chase and throw them all away or make it so that an AR will beat the DMR by a significant margin in the AR’s own range. Not to mention that if skill is the issue, why not make the normal weapons more skillful to use?
>
> Concerning Grenades and melees? If they only assist weapons in getting kills then to me they aren’t weapons, just tools. And they aren’t part of the Golden Triangle anymore. Instead the Golden Triangle just becomes a Golden Line.

But only very skilled players could beat an AR at close range, let’s say the top 10-15% of the players. Therefore the AR would beat the utility weapon 85-90% of the time in its niche. If the AR and utility weapon took equal skill though (it’s just that this has never been the case, and probably never will be), then the AR should always beat it in its niche. Also, the Golden triangle consists of weapons, grenades, and melee. So yes, grenades and melee aren’t weapons. And Halo grenades aren’t meant to get a kill on their own. Their primary use is to weaken an opponent so you can finish him with your weapon, or to clean him up after he’s ran to cover. Same with melee. You weaken an opponent with your weapon, then finish him with melee, or vice versa. Grenades and melee are meant to be used in combination with weapons. That’s their place in the Golden Triangle.

> > I mainly agree, but the utility weapon killing in 1 second seems like it might be a little too quick as far as something like the BR, and AA’s should not return even in the social playlists.
>
> In modern popular shooters fast kill times are key.
>
> CE is actually what started that in all console FPS and the future of halo should follow CEs lead, not Reachs.
>
> Also just becuase the main precision weapon is beast doesnt mean all other weapon have to shoot marshmallows. H4 can follow CEs lead and give a god gun but equally strong alternatives, think CE shotty for ex

Agreed

One word, beautiful.

> One word, beautiful.

Haha thanks

br should always beat the ar

if someone has the br and knows how to use it they should always beat someone with the ar

if someone has the br and doesn’t know how to use they should should always lose to someone with the ar

> br should always beat the ar
>
> if someone has the br and knows how to use it they should always beat someone with the ar
>
> if someone has the br and doesn’t know how to use they should should always lose to someone with the ar

That’s what I said

> Bring back SOCIAL and RANKED playlists
>
> That is all I have to say
>
> But everything else on here… I know what you are trying to say it just sounds really complex haha… I agree though.

I tried to keep it fairly simple haha

> All true, especially keeping Casuals in their own domain. That way they can always play the way they want, or if they are feeling bold, look up at the competitive playlist and dream.

Haha yes. You’ll never find a middle ground between casual and competitive, so why try?