I understand it was a writers plan to make us as the readers/players feel a kinship between Sangeili and Spartans. In my opinion an average Elite (Elite Minor) is slightly weaker than an average Spartan (II). My evidence to support this is the fact that when Chief engaged the Sangheili in Halo: The Fall Of Reach, the Sangheili was said to be a meter taller than Chief (which would make it over 11ft, taller than a Brute) yet it was said to be equal in strength to Chief, if we take this to be accurate then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct? We also have no other instances in which strength can accurately be compared, if we don’t include the fact that Chief was able to overpower and out strength the Sangheili in the beginning of Halo 4. What do you guys think, am I hilariously wrong? Or relatively accurate?
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> then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
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> > 2533274874990824;1:
> > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
>
>
> Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
>
> It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
Sangheili Combat Harness’ enhance the user’s Strength and speed - It’s not out of the ordinary to think that the higher ranked the Elite is, the further their Combat Harness amplifies their abilities.
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> > > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
> >
> >
> >
> > Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
> >
> > It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
>
>
> Sangheili Combat Harness’ enhance the user’s Strength and speed - It’s not out of the ordinary to think that the higher ranked the Elite is, the further their Combat Harness amplifies their abilities.
This could be one explanation, however Thel was a Zealot during The Cole Protocol whereas the Elite John wrestled with in TFoR must have been either a Ranger or Minor.
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> > 2533274874990824;1:
> > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
>
>
> Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
>
> It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
yet a spartan III in SPI Semi-Powered Infiltration Armor Though far more advanced and far more powerful than the ODST combat suit, it is less advanced and less powerful than the MJOLNIR and they where equally fast and dangerous and could snap an elites neck like a twig
key points you made was that the Best elite and a spartan 2 finished in a Draw
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> > 2533274846085892;2:
> > > 2533274874990824;1:
> > > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
> >
> >
> >
> > Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
> >
> > It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
>
>
> yet a spartan III in SPI Semi-Powered Infiltration Armor Though far more advanced and far more powerful than the ODST combat suit, it is less advanced and less powerful than the MJOLNIR and they where equally fast and dangerous and could snap an elites neck like a twig
>
> key points you made was that the Best elite and a spartan 2 finished in a Draw
I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here. SPI armour doesn’t aid or enhance the user’s physical capabilities. This brings us to another inconsistency as 12 year old Spartan IIIs in SPI armour decimated Elites and other Covenant in hand-to-hand, whereas Chief and Jai each struggled when facing off against a single Elite.
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> > > 2533274874990824;1:
> > > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
> >
> > It’s difficult to tell. In The Cole Protocol, Jai-006 grapples with Thel and the two seem very evenly matched. However, Jai was wearing Mark IV Mjolnir in this instance, which only multiplies the users strength by a factor of 2. In TFoR, John wears Mark V Mjolnir - which amplifies the users strength by a factor of 5 - and yet he still struggles when grappling with the Elite. Now, we could assume that this enourmous Elite is much stronger than most because of it’s size, but the difference between multiplying strength by a factor of 2 and factor of 5 is much too large for that to be the case. It’s too difficult to tell.
>
>
>
> yet a spartan III in SPI Semi-Powered Infiltration Armor Though far more advanced and far more powerful than the ODST combat suit, it is less advanced and less powerful than the MJOLNIR and they where equally fast and dangerous and could snap an elites neck like a twig
>
> key points you made was that the Best elite and a spartan 2 finished in a Draw
There’s a possibly good reason for that. Once the naturally talented Spartan III’s received augmentations, They were three times stronger than what they previously were.
If we were to say that a regular Spartan from Alpha Company could lift 300kg, he/she would now be capable of lifting nearly a ton. I also remember reading there being some form of a berserker drug they were given as an addition with the augmentations, which boosted their strength 10 fold when in combat situations IIRC.
So we now have someone who lifts 9000kg when they are pissed off snapping Elite Minor’s necks like twigs. I think that’s pretty understandable - What about you?
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> > 2533274874990824;1:
> > then I can imagine an Elite who is only average height would be less strong than Chief. Correct?
>
>
>
>
> Height =/= strength. I’m 6 foot 1 but I’m not very strong at all.
That’s because you need more space protein in your diet!
Ahem, to be honest, it’s kinda iffy. Like, in The Fall of Reach, Chief fights on even grounds with a Sangheili, and again in First Strike. Although, to be fair, Nylund describes the Elite from TFOR as a meter taller, which would make that Elite the Andre the Giant of his kind, and in FS, Chief was running on fumes after fighting nonstop on Alpha Halo.
In Ghosts of Onyx, we see very young Spartan-IIIs take on Elites in hand to hand combat without breaking a sweat, and that’s without MJOLNIR. Although, Headhunters does offer a sort of explanation for this. In the story, the characters speculate that since these Elites were so far from the front lines, they likely weren’t very capable warriors. And the scene in question from Ghosts of Onyx happens to take place on some world far from the front lines as well.
In terms of speed, we have a quote from Spartan Assault saying that “Elites can dodge just about anything you shoot their way”. They probably can’t dodge their Spartan equivalents, though - Those firearms supposedly have a VERY fast muzzle velocity.
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> > >
>
>
>
>
> I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here. SPI armour doesn’t aid or enhance the user’s physical capabilities. This brings us to another inconsistency as 12 year old Spartan IIIs in SPI armour decimated Elites and other Covenant in hand-to-hand, whereas Chief and Jai each struggled when facing off against a single Elite.
yep inconstancy and i believe this has been addressed in a prior post. there are numerios inconsistancy in the strength a spartan has. from the information given in lore spartarn should only be able to dead-lift less than a metric tone. but due to inconstancy like armor strength and average human strength there is not enough physical data to give a defined answer.
FYI: Mark I Prototype Exoskeleton was a factor of 5. the Mark IV was more advanced and superior just didnt have shields
simply what you stated jai vs thel; draw. this is a something we can measure as we know there training and capability best Elite of the Vadamee clan is equal 1 of 33 spartan II the best the unsc could train and engineer.
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> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here. SPI armour doesn’t aid or enhance the user’s physical capabilities. This brings us to another inconsistency as 12 year old Spartan IIIs in SPI armour decimated Elites and other Covenant in hand-to-hand, whereas Chief and Jai each struggled when facing off against a single Elite.
>
>
> yep inconstancy and i believe this has been addressed in a prior post. there are numerios inconsistancy in the strength a spartan has. from the information given in lore spartarn should only be able to dead-lift less than a metric tone. but due to inconstancy like armor strength and average human strength there is not enough physical data to give a defined answer.
>
> FYI: Mark I Prototype Exoskeleton was a factor of 5. the Mark IV was more advanced and superior just didnt have shields
>
> simply what you stated jai vs thel; draw. this is a something we can measure as we know there training and capability best Elite of the Vadamee clan is equal 1 of 33 spartan II the best the unsc could train and engineer.
More than that, actually. Augmentations make a Spartan II at least three times stronger - With most of the Spartan II candidates being close to the peak of human physiology, you can expect them to lift around 1.2-1.5 metric tonnes; Though we also have to consider the fact that the more physically talented you are and the older you become, the greater your body reacts to the enhancements.
the established lore on the amount that a spartan can lift is conflicting so its hard (impossible at present)to tell.
-halo pc guide says that gen.1 armor increased users strength by a factor of five.
-The SPARTAN-IIs out of armor are capable of lifting three times their body weight, which is double the normal weight of an average human due to the ceramic bone augmentations, in addition to their increased muscle density. _ Halo: The Fall of Reach The Definitive Edition.
Average human in the halo Universe is unknown. one should also take in account that worlds have different gravity. Reach for example had a greater gravity. average reach local would be able to bench more than the average earthling.
If we did this by current earth averages lift of 155 pounds x 2 (augment) x 5 (Gen.1) a spartan 2 in armor would only be able to lift less than a metric ton. This is contradicted by the gen 1 prototype that could lift 2 tons._Halo: The Fall of Reach
with the advancements since then we could assume technology improved once they reached gen 2 armor we are missing hug amount of information or have conflicting or plan useless info
there is no gauge or percentage as to the increase to the strength of a spartan as they age and is equal to saying his power level is over 9000.
> 2533274874990824;1:
> I understand it was a writers plan to make us as the readers/players feel a kinship between Sangeili and Spartans. In my opinion an average Elite (Elite Minor) is slightly weaker than an average Spartan (II). My evidence to support this is the fact that when Chief engaged the Sangheili in Halo: The Fall Of Reach, the Sangheili was said to be a meter taller than Chief (which would make it over 11ft, taller than a Brute) yet it was said to be equal in strength to Chief,
Originally the Elites were biologically strong as Spartans, so for him to struggle with a minor said a lot. But that got retconned with their armor increasing the users power, once again changing unique aspect.
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> the established lore on the amount that a spartan can lift is conflicting so its hard (impossible at present)to tell.
>
> -halo pc guide says that gen.1 armor increased users strength by a factor of five.
>
> -The SPARTAN-IIs out of armor are capable of lifting three times their body weight, which is double the normal weight of an average human due to the ceramic bone augmentations, in addition to their increased muscle density. _ Halo: The Fall of Reach The Definitive Edition.
>
> Average human in the halo Universe is unknown. one should also take in account that worlds have different gravity. Reach for example had a greater gravity. average reach local would be able to bench more than the average earthling.
>
> If we did this by current earth averages lift of 155 pounds x 2 (augment) x 5 (Gen.1) a spartan 2 in armor would only be able to lift less than a metric ton. This is contradicted by the gen 1 prototype that could lift 2 tons._Halo: The Fall of Reach
>
> with the advancements since then we could assume technology improved once they reached gen 2 armor we are missing hug amount of information or have conflicting or plan useless info
>
> there is no gauge or percentage as to the increase to the strength of a spartan as they age and is equal to saying his power level is over 9000.
That statement made no sense to me, that puts the Master Chief only capable of lifting 390kg unarmoured. While that’s very impressive for a normal human, Spartans have been continuously said to have super human strength - Being able to only lift 390kg doesn’t even make him a peak human.
Thankfully, we finally get Frank O’ Connor addressing how strong Spartan II’s really are by telling us some of them can canonically roll over M808’s (Halo Legends: Homecoming - Developer Commentary).
That would be a retcon then which is acceptable as Bungie probably didn’t have a good understand of what “Super Human” would be.
Though i will say Spartans generally get their praise for in-armor actions.
I think it was Glasslands, but Naomi knocked Jul ’ Mdama out by running into him and punching him. He even lost some teeth. But I am gonna say that Spartans are stronger than most elites. They are also more skilled with nearly all weapons except the energy sword. Evidence of this is that jhon struggled with a sword fight with an elite when jhon and his team went to rescue halsey. SO, if a Spartan and a Sangheli went toe to toe with no armour, again, i think the Spartans have the skills to pay the bills.
I truly think you all aren’t remember that the Elites are now outclassed with the recent Mjolnir upgrades, so in armor any updated Spartan was the advantage.
To the user above, how would the Spartans be more skilled with covenant weaponry than those who have been using such technology for over 3,000 years?
Mathematically Chief should be this strong: Weight = 286Ibs x 3 = 858Ibs (Out of Mjolnir MKV-) x 5 = 4290Ibs (In Mjolnir MKV-). Obviously chances are he can lift slightly more than this but in terms of the maths this is as close as we can with the information we have. If anyone can provide a source for an Elite being able to lift near 4000Ibs I’d like to see it.
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> > 2533274830366691;12:
> > the established lore on the amount that a spartan can lift is conflicting so its hard (impossible at present)to tell.
> >
> > -halo pc guide says that gen.1 armor increased users strength by a factor of five.
> >
> > -The SPARTAN-IIs out of armor are capable of lifting three times their body weight, which is double the normal weight of an average human due to the ceramic bone augmentations, in addition to their increased muscle density. _ Halo: The Fall of Reach The Definitive Edition.
> >
> > Average human in the halo Universe is unknown. one should also take in account that worlds have different gravity. Reach for example had a greater gravity. average reach local would be able to bench more than the average earthling.
> >
> > If we did this by current earth averages lift of 155 pounds x 2 (augment) x 5 (Gen.1) a spartan 2 in armor would only be able to lift less than a metric ton. This is contradicted by the gen 1 prototype that could lift 2 tons._Halo: The Fall of Reach
> >
> > with the advancements since then we could assume technology improved once they reached gen 2 armor we are missing hug amount of information or have conflicting or plan useless info
> >
> > there is no gauge or percentage as to the increase to the strength of a spartan as they age and is equal to saying his power level is over 9000.
>
>
>
>
> That statement made no sense to me, that puts the Master Chief only capable of lifting 390kg unarmoured. While that’s very impressive for a normal human, Spartans have been continuously said to have super human strength - Being able to only lift 390kg doesn’t even make him a peak human.
>
> Thankfully, we finally get Frank O’ Connor addressing how strong Spartan II’s really are by telling us some of them can canonically roll over M808’s (Halo Legends: Homecoming - Developer Commentary).
Yeah, the “three times” statement doesn’t add up. In The Fall of Reach, John, after augmentations, kicks a trainer who is in a Mark I MJOLNIR exoskeleton a distance of eight meters. Assuming the old exoskeletons weighed anything like MJOLNIR GEN1, John somehow propelled an object as heavy as his bench pressing max a considerable distance by kicking it. That’s just insane.
> That statement made no sense to me, that puts the Master Chief only capable of lifting 390kg unarmoured. While that’s very impressive for a normal human, Spartans have been continuously said to have super human strength - Being able to only lift 390kg doesn’t even make him a peak human.
>
> Thankfully, we finally get Frank O’ Connor addressing how strong Spartan II’s really are by telling us some of them can canonically roll over M808’s (Halo Legends: Homecoming - Developer Commentary).
was merely pointing out inconstancy and triviality due to the lack of data, and conflicting information. yes we are aware he can roll a 66tone tank and fall from 0ver 70,000ft at terminal vorticity but he still takes no damage and dies from a 3 tone warthog doing less then 80mph.
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> Mathematically Chief should be this strong: Weight = 286Ibs x 3 = 858Ibs (Out of Mjolnir MKV-) x 5 = 4290Ibs (In Mjolnir MKV-). Obviously chances are he can lift slightly more than this but in terms of the maths this is as close as we can with the information we have. If anyone can provide a source for an Elite being able to lift near 4000Ibs I’d like to see it.
agreed as this puts his lift just under 2 metric tones. only issue i have is that they use the term lift, it be nice if 343 could clarify if this is clean over their head or a dead lift. … there have been countless world record lifts of peek weight lifter males “dead lifting” half a tone last i recall was 1117pounds which i thought was hilarious