Storyline change in H4?

Rumor has it that the Forerunner lore has been changed in Halo 4 by 343. In the original trilogy the Forerunners were ancient humans that went back to prehistoric times after they sacrificed themselves by firing the Halo Array. This theory is backed up by the fact that humans seem to be only species that can activate foreunner technology, and that the only portal to The Ark is on Earth. In Halo 4 however, humans and forerunners are two separate species which were at war and the forerunners inexplicably de-evolved humanity after they lost the war.

Is this true? and if so, which storyline do you prefer?

It was never stated that the forerunners and humans were the same. It was hinted but even Bungie did not go through with it when you read the terminals.

All 343i has done is give more depth to ‘Why’ the Forerunners made humanity their Inheritors.

Also it was the forerunner books that did that more than Halo 4.

2 questions: What were you smoking when you heard that, and can I have some?

In all seriousness, Forerunners were never nor currently are prehistoric humans. In fact, those two races had a war because the ancient humans bombed a Flood infested Forerunner world. The Halo Array was fired by the IsoDidact, while Faber activated Omega Halo. None of them were Forerunners. The reason humans can use Forerunner tech is because they (specifically the ones siding with the Librarian) deemed humanity as their successors and imposed gei (plural for geas) onto them. The humans with a geas are the Reclaimers, the ones that can activate Forerunner machines.

> 2533274933802447;5:
> 2 questions: What were you smoking when you heard that, and can I have some?
>
> In all seriousness, Forerunners were never nor currently are prehistoric humans. In fact, those two races had a war because the ancient humans bombed a Flood infested Forerunner world. The Halo Array was fired by the IsoDidact, while Faber activated Omega Halo. None of them were Forerunners. The reason humans can use Forerunner tech is because they (specifically the ones siding with the Librarian) deemed humanity as their successors and imposed gei (plural for geas) onto them. The humans with a geas are the Reclaimers, the ones that can activate Forerunner machines.

> 2533274968894951;1:
> Rumor has it that the Forerunner lore has been changed in Halo 4 by 343. In the original trilogy the Forerunners were ancient humans that went back to prehistoric times after they sacrificed themselves by firing the Halo Array. This theory is backed up by the fact that humans seem to be only species that can activate foreunner technology, and that the only portal to The Ark is on Earth. In Halo 4 however, humans and forerunners are two separate species which were at war and the forerunners inexplicably de-evolved humanity after they lost the war.
>
> Is this true? and if so, which storyline do you prefer?

It is true.Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same, this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy
At the terminals from h3 and later from the forerunner books, we learned that the species are distinct, but related in some kind of way (created by the precursors)
Personally I prefer the forerunners we have now, especially since the pre-humans also got introduced.

I know there was an ex Bungie employee that confirmed this was the original intention.

The Universe we have now is even deeper and more intricate than what Bungie gave us and I love what they’ve done. I’ve always imagined Forerunners to be another species, and I’m glad we get to see them develop now.

Greg Bear was the perfect writer to take care of the Forerunner’s introduction to the series.

Not a rumour, it’s been confirmed. Bungie intended for humans to literally be Forerunners. Then 343 came along and **** all over the canon.

> 2533274968894951;1:
> Rumor has it that the Forerunner lore has been changed in Halo 4 by 343. In the original trilogy the Forerunners were ancient humans that went back to prehistoric times after they sacrificed themselves by firing the Halo Array. This theory is backed up by the fact that humans seem to be only species that can activate foreunner technology, and that the only portal to The Ark is on Earth. In Halo 4 however, humans and forerunners are two separate species which were at war and the forerunners inexplicably de-evolved humanity after they lost the war.
>
> Is this true? and if so, which storyline do you prefer?

Rumor? There were already two entire novels about it before the game was even released. Anyway, I prefer 343i’s take by far. The only drawback is the removal of the underlying irony of the Covenant War, what with the aliens killing their “gods” because the Hierarchs told them to. Fortunately, even this has been restored to a degree with the establishment of ancient humanity and the San’Shyuum being allies in their war against the Forerunners.

> 2535420014591908;8:
> Bungie intended for humans to literally be Forerunners. Then 343 came along and **** all over the canon.

This ignores the fact that Halo 3’s terminals suggested a distinction between the two species before 343i even existed. It’s called death of the author. Bungie’s intentions are irrelevant because they’re not in charge anymore.

> 2535420014591908;8:
> Not a rumour, it’s been confirmed. Bungie intended for humans to literally be Forerunners. Then 343 came along and **** all over the canon.

They didn’t really “**** all over the canon”, they just came up with their own vision for the Forerunners and their history. It still fits within the hints given to us by Bungie as nothing was ever set in stone or put in place.

I prefer 343’s storyline, I always wanted the Forerunners to be non-human.

> 2535420014591908;8:
> Not a rumour, it’s been confirmed. Bungie intended for humans to literally be Forerunners. Then 343 came along and **** all over the canon.

Bungie intended for them to be humans. But this was never fully set in stone and wasn’t a major part of the original storyline. By Halo 3, Bungie themselves had backtracked on the idea and began differentiating between the species, characterizing the Forerunners a little more and expanding them. The humans are Forerunners concept was only ever an idea that was hinted at throughout the trilogy in little bits of dialogue, all of which can be explained if the species are separate as well.

343i did not do anything to canon. They merely fleshed out their vision, which was already the path Bungie had taken at the end of Halo 3. There was never any canon about it in the first place until 343i’s Forerunner Saga set up the Forerunners.

Bungie intended for jumans to be forerunners and the flood to be an experiment gone wrong back in the initial early drafts of Combat Evolved. That was it.

David Candland:

> One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren’t conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the “great journey” failed. They also weren’t the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to “sweep them under the carpet,” as it were.
>
> The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, “you are forerunner.” etc.

Bungie never really changed their mind, even with Halo 3. 343i took advantage of the lack of explicit confirmation to make up their own backstory. But Bungie still wanted humanity and the Forerunners to be the same. The H3 Terminals did reveal some info on the Forerunners, but it was still very vague and they probably intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. While the Ark would repopulate a primitive human species on Earth, the Didact would disappear from the galaxy’s affairs. For the rest (the Reclaimer status, being “Forerunner”, etc) it was simply due to the fact that they were the same species.

Around Halo 3 (and it’s terminals) it’s clear that humans and forerunners are different things (e.g. when Librarian mentioned mankind, she wasn’t talking about her own kind). It was third (out of 5) Halo game made by Bungie and 343i builded on that. I know that intented storyline at first was that forerunners and reclaimers are the same, but it had changed with time as Bungie themselves were building up the lore.

However Bungie never described forerunners as clearly as Greag Bear did in Cryptum and as 343i showed them in Halo 4. In their games forerunners were this ancient myth - much like precursors right now. I’m sure that precursors lore will change as well compared to what is brewing right now in writer’s mind.

From the H3 terminals I got the impression that humans and Forerunners were the same species, but the Forerunners were an offshoot of the primitive Earth humans displaced and uplifted on a different planet by the Precursors in ancient past (hence the Librarian’s comments about the Earth humans providing answers to the Forerunners’ own mysteries). I still prefer this interpretation to what we got (having separate ancient human and Forerunner civilizations feels pointlessly redundant), though I like Greg Bear’s novels (343i’s in-house Forerunner fiction, on the other hand, doesn’t hold up).

> 2533274821753519;13:
> David Candland:
>
>
>
> > One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren’t conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the “great journey” failed. They also weren’t the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to “sweep them under the carpet,” as it were.
> >
> > The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, “you are forerunner.” etc.
>
>
> Bungie never really changed their mind, even with Halo 3. 343i took advantage of the lack of explicit confirmation to make up their own backstory. But Bungie still wanted humanity and the Forerunners to be the same. The H3 Terminals did reveal some info on the Forerunners, but it was still very vague and they probably intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. While the Ark would repopulate a primitive human species on Earth, the Didact would disappear from the galaxy’s affairs. For the rest (the Reclaimer status, being “Forerunner”, etc) it was simply due to the fact that they were the same species.

> I’m trapped. On a beautiful, empty
> world. Its inhabitants have been
> safely indexed, every single one
> of them. They’re special - well
> worth the effort it took to build
> one final gateway, even at this late
> hour.

> Did I tell you? I built a garden.
> The earth is so rich. A seed falls
> and a tree sprouts or a flower
> blooms. There’s so much… potential.
> We knew this was a special place
> because of them, but unless you’ve
> been here, you can’t know.

The Librarian is talking about Earth.
Odd to refer to her own species like that… don’t you think?

This is where humanity and the Forerunners were separate. The Halo 3 Terminals turned it around from the original plan.

> 2533274848433317;15:
> From the H3 terminals I got the impression that humans and Forerunners were the same species, but the Forerunners were an offshoot of the primitive Earth humans displaced and uplifted on a different planet by the Precursors in ancient past (hence the Librarian’s comments about the Earth humans providing answers to the Forerunners’ own mysteries). I still prefer this interpretation to what we got (having separate ancient human and Forerunner civilizations feels pointlessly redundant), though I like Greg Bear’s novels (343i’s in-house Forerunner fiction, on the other hand, doesn’t hold up).

Where would the terminals have given you the idea of offshoots and Precursor placement? The Precursors aren’t mentioned like that. The Librarian directly refers to humans and Earth as special, different people that have promise.

I don’t see the distinction as redundant at all. And what do you mean by the novels and then 343i’s in house fiction? The novels are 343i’s Forerunners, there isn’t anything not “holding up” there.

> 2533274821753519;13:
> David Candland:
>
>
>
> > One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren’t conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the “great journey” failed. They also weren’t the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to “sweep them under the carpet,” as it were.
> >
> > The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, “you are forerunner.” etc.
>
>
>
> Bungie never really changed their mind, even with Halo 3. 343i took advantage of the lack of explicit confirmation to make up their own backstory. But Bungie still wanted humanity and the Forerunners to be the same. The H3 Terminals did reveal some info on the Forerunners, but it was still very vague and they probably intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. While the Ark would repopulate a primitive human species on Earth, the Didact would disappear from the galaxy’s affairs. For the rest (the Reclaimer status, being “Forerunner”, etc) it was simply due to the fact that they were the same species.

That was the intention at first, but the Halo 3 terminals and Iris Campaign make it abundantly clear that they couldn’t possibly have been the same species. Librarian takes care of humanity on “Eden” (earth) and the Iris Campaign had ancient humans–primitive, tribal–watching the Forerunners build the Ark Portal, likening them to gods. There’s no conceivable way they were the same species, the only way you could explain it is if the humans were related to the Forerunners in some way, but also distinct. Which is exactly what 343i gave us: the Forerunners are our brothers, both given life by the Precursors. We are very related but we aren’t the same.

> 2533274907934539;17:
> > 2533274848433317;15:
> > From the H3 terminals I got the impression that humans and Forerunners were the same species, but the Forerunners were an offshoot of the primitive Earth humans displaced and uplifted on a different planet by the Precursors in ancient past (hence the Librarian’s comments about the Earth humans providing answers to the Forerunners’ own mysteries). I still prefer this interpretation to what we got (having separate ancient human and Forerunner civilizations feels pointlessly redundant), though I like Greg Bear’s novels (343i’s in-house Forerunner fiction, on the other hand, doesn’t hold up).
>
>
> Where would the terminals have given you the idea of offshoots and Precursor placement? The Precursors aren’t mentioned like that. The Librarian directly refers to humans and Earth as special, different people that have promise.
>
> I don’t see the distinction as redundant at all. And what do you mean by the novels and then 343i’s in house fiction? The novels are 343i’s Forerunners, there isn’t anything not “holding up” there.

I’m referring to the quality of the Forerunner-related aspects of Halo 4, its terminals, and Escalation versus the quality of Greg Bear’s writing.

As for the terminals and Forerunners being a human offshoot, that was actually quite a common interpretation of the relationship between the two in the pre-343 era. It just felt natural to connect the dots: Forerunner constructs regarding humans as Forerunner. The Librarian discovering Earth in the Forerunners’ twilight days and deeming humanity special because of their connections to her own species. Sure, you can say how wrong it is in hindsight and none of it was ever explicit, but it’s a very natural conclusion without the context of 343i’s revised Forerunner-human relationship.

To be fair even greg’s books mentioned we might be genetically related.I think the problem is h4 came around and gave forerunners very fish-like features. Gregg’s books made them sound more like hairy elves had some funky skin colours and extra fingers. I don’t find the noses an issue, but the blob ears which never got a mention just bug me.

I honestly feel like the h3 terminals could have gone either way. It’s important to remember spark was also pretty insane at the time.

I think what is legitamentely new from 343 is humanity having an advanced ancient civilization of its own