SPRINT IS USELESS [Version 1]

Before anyone says “No it isn’t!” --hear me out on this, ok?

Secondly, if you think my scenarios are implausible, my post on Page 4, five posts up from the bottom, is for you. Remember that these scenarios are an attempt to find a way in which Sprint alters the tactical situation–nothing else.

  1. Let’s first consider a hypothetical scenario–a 1v1 match with, where players start off with only infinite sprint, and melee. No weapons. No other Spartan abilites. Just the ability–or option–to sprint for an infinite period of time, and melee, in addition to the standard movement mechanics. I should also note that the map they are playing on has no cover, and that you are unable to use ranged weapons whilst sprinting. One more thing, until stated otherwise, Sprint does not affect shields.
  • The battle can either be delayed indefinitely [scenario 4] or both players can go on the offensive. Sprint is useless in this scenario–the outcome of the battle is decided by who can get their two accurate melee strikes in first. Both players need to be within melee range for there to be a battle.2) Now, let’s alter the scenario so we have temporary sprint. Everything else is the same as scenario #1.
  • Player A sprints away from Player B. Player B chases. The distance between Player A and B increases initially, but then Player A’s sprint runs out. Player B closes in on Player A, but then their sprint runs out. No change in tactical situation. Sprint is useless in this scenario.3) Now, let’s alter the scenario further. Both players are now also equipped with a ranged weapon–let’s say a BR. In this scenario, sprint is still temporary.
  • Player B shoots at Player A. Player A refuses to fight, and sprints away, with their shields damaged. Player B laughs, continues shooting Player A, and Player A dies.- Or–Player A turns around and sprints towards Player B, hoping to get into melee range. Player B flees using sprint. Both players’ sprint runs out eventually. At this point, any number of things can happen. Player A can decide to stop sprinting towards Player B and start shooting, or Player B can stop, turn around, and risk Player A getting into melee range. The situation has reverted back to square one. Nothing changed as a result of using sprint.4) Now, if sprint was infinite in the above scenario, we could have something completely ridiculous happen.
  • Once both players start sprinting, they may decide never to stop. The match would end with zero kills on either side. Otherwise the results would be exactly the same as scenario 3.5) Now we have the scenario where sprint is tied into shields, like it is in Halo 5.
  • Player A shoots at Player B, then charges at them with sprint. Regardless of whether or not Player B sprints away or fights, Player A’s shields will not recover whilst sprinting. Player A dies faster than in scenario 3.6) What about being able to shoot whilst sprinting? Maybe the accuracy of the weapon could just be reduced?
  • Nope. If the weapon accuracy is reduced too much, then its not effective to fire the weapon. If the weapon accuracy is affected too little, then Player B’s only choice is to charge towards Player A and bash in Player A’s skull–Player A sprinting would completely nerf Player B’s ranged weapon [the BR, remember?].7) Okay, so one other thing to change. Add in cover to the map. What happens if sprint is or isn’t available?
  • Well, if Player A decides that they need cover, they would use sprint to get behind cover.- If sprint was not available, they would simply move towards the nearest cover, and get there a little later. But player B would also get to Player A’s location a little later, too.- If sprint was tied into shields and Player A and B had the option of using sprint or not, then at best Player A resets the battle to square one, and at worst Player A is at a disadvantage as soon as they start Sprinting. [See page 6, post 8 for the full scenario]So, what does Sprint actually do? Remember, in all of the above scenarios the players were on equal footing. There were no teammates and no other Spartan abilities they could use to alter the situation. If Sprint requires one Player to make a strategic mistake for it to alter the tactical situation, then the mistake altered the situation, not Sprint. In order for Sprint to be useful, it needs to be able to improve a Player’s situation. If it can’t do that when players are on equal footing, then it isn’t useful in combat at all.
  • I’d just like to reiterate my point with scenario #6. If a short burst of speed is used by Player B to close the gap and melee Player A, then all other starting conditions being equal, Player A would also melee Player B. Both players would receive an equal amount of damage, and the situation is not altered at all.Alright, lets now think of a non-offensive and non-defensive situation in which Sprint could be useful.
  1. Sprint is helpful for traversing large maps.
  • So are vehicles. Vehicles have guns. Big ones. Vehicles are better than sprint. *Vehicles splatter sprinters.*2) Sprint is helpful for rushing in to save a teammate.
  • No it isn’t. Observation skills and teamwork are helpful for saving teammates. If you let your teammate get too far away from you, it doesn’t matter if you have Sprint or not. You won’t be able to save them. All that changes if Sprint is present in the game is that you can allow teammates to get further away from you. Map sizes tend to increase as a result.As far as I can tell, there is no gameplay scenario [aside from SWAT] where any form of Sprint is useful, when all other factors are equal. Sprint is only useful if one player has it and another player does not.

A couple of other points: Thruster pack is another form of Sprint. So is Lunge [with an energy sword or when meleeing]. So is Slide. So is the Spartan Charge. These specialized Sprint varieties have far more uses than Sprint. The definition of Sprint is to move at top speed over a short distance. Infinite Sprint does not fit this definition.

  • Thruster pack is more useful than Sprint. It is used for evasion in combat–dodging a lunge, for instance.- Slide is more useful than Sprint. It is used for dodging a bullet and getting into cover quickly.- Charge isn’t that useful. I’d like to see it tied in with being stuck with a grenade, or dropping all weapons and going beserk like a Suicide Grunt or Brute.- Lunge is actually a quick gap closer, to make melee more useful when against ranged weapons.Finally, for those who complain that Spartans are slow and never run. Spartans are moving very fast all the time. Marines–normal humans–are a lot slower than you. Play Sierra 117 on Halo 3 for the best example–but any Halo game with Marines will do–also note Thomas Lasky’s walking pace on the Mammoth.

Edit: FYI, Bungie made Marathon before Halo. Marathon is an FPS with a Sprint mechanic. Obviously, Bungie decided that sprint was not required for Halo CE.

As far as I’m concerned, Sprint in Halo is a little less useful than a Traffic cone or a Forklift. It doesn’t need to be there. But at least getting a kill with a Forklift or Traffic Cone is funny. Sprint isn’t. It’s just sort of…there, not doing anything. Whatever. I’ve said my piece. Ideas? Opinions? Other facts I missed? Discuss.

I use sprint because it feels like I am moving through molasses if I don’t, but when I am sprinting I often end up in encounters that I am not prepared for, so it’s frustrating for me, I wish base speed was a bit higher and would increase to near sprint speeds if you moved straight forward but you could keep your gun out, I think it would feel amazing

You guys are putting way to much effort into this. It’s actual very simple they cannot release a shooter in 2015 without sprint that’s it. I don’t personaly agree with it but they can’t.and ain’t no body got time to explain to Jonny about how base speeds is actually like sprint but blah blah. They need sell consoles and to do that something in the industry said this is one of those things you game needs to have again it might very well be just an illusion of speed but it’s needed. Least 343 is trying to make it work with all that nerf

> 2533274835305187;3:
> You guys are putting way to much effort into this.

Meh. Took me an hour. Maybe a little more, I don’t know. Helps me practice my essay writing skills. Even if no-one read it, it wouldn’t have been wasted time for me. As to needing a useless gameplay gimmick to attract players/sell the game? Lame. Lame. Lame. It might be true, but it’s still lame.

> 2533274835305187;3:
> You guys are putting way to much effort into this. It’s actual very simple they cannot release a shooter in 2015 without sprint that’s it. I don’t personaly agree with it but they can’t.and ain’t no body got time to explain to Jonny about how base speeds is actually like sprint but blah blah. They need sell consoles and to do that something in the industry said this is one of those things you game needs to have again it might very well be just an illusion of speed but it’s needed. Least 343 is trying to make it work with all that nerf

is there a law stating you can’t release a shooter without sprint?

Sprint is a thing in games now, better get used to it.

> 2684064956505966;5:
> > 2533274835305187;3:
> > You guys are putting way to much effort into this. It’s actual very simple they cannot release a shooter in 2015 without sprint that’s it. I don’t personaly agree with it but they can’t.and ain’t no body got time to explain to Jonny about how base speeds is actually like sprint but blah blah. They need sell consoles and to do that something in the industry said this is one of those things you game needs to have again it might very well be just an illusion of speed but it’s needed. Least 343 is trying to make it work with all that nerf
>
>
> is there a law stating you can’t release a shooter without sprint?

Apparently one of those unwritten laws

> 2533274880692195;4:
> > 2533274835305187;3:
> > You guys are putting way to much effort into this.
>
>
> Meh. Took me an hour. Maybe a little more, I don’t know. Helps me practice my essay writing skills. Even if no-one read it, it wouldn’t have been wasted time for me. As to needing a useless gameplay gimmick to attract players/sell the game? Lame. Lame. Lame. It might be true, but it’s still lame.

Haha I use forums for the same thing (when I’m not on my phone) yeaa i Agreee the only thing that gives me hope was watching The Sprint gimmick or not they are trying to make it fit into halo. And it’s a different feel but still feels like halo to me

> 2559411752528895;6:
> Sprint is a thing in games now, better get used to it.

Pfft. There’s a sprinting mechanic in Half-Life 1, and a sprinting mechanic in Bungie’s predecessor to Halo: Marathon. Heck, there’s a sprinting mechanic in Doom. Where have you been the last 20-odd years? Bungie didn’t include sprint in Halo back in 2001 because they felt it wasn’t necessary, not because it wasn’t present in other video games.

Sprint ruins the game because it adds too many variables. If I go around a corner not sprinting and meet a guy that is sprinting and we notice each other at the same time, I’m most likely going to win because he will have to wait to bring his gun up after sprinting.

> 2533274835305187;7:
> > 2684064956505966;5:
> > > 2533274835305187;3:
> > > You guys are putting way to much effort into this. It’s actual very simple they cannot release a shooter in 2015 without sprint that’s it. I don’t personaly agree with it but they can’t.and ain’t no body got time to explain to Jonny about how base speeds is actually like sprint but blah blah. They need sell consoles and to do that something in the industry said this is one of those things you game needs to have again it might very well be just an illusion of speed but it’s needed. Least 343 is trying to make it work with all that nerf
> >
> >
> >
> > is there a law stating you can’t release a shooter without sprint?
>
>
> Apparently one of those unwritten laws

then 343 should laugh in it’s face and try to go against the norm, if you make your shooter the same as all the others sure it will sell, and it will sell consoles based on the name I agree with you there. but even though this game is quite fun in its current state nothing stands out about it, they need to make halo its own unique shooter again so that it has staying power

> 2533274814855881;10:
> Sprint ruins the game because it adds too many variables. If I go around a corner not sprinting and meet a guy that is sprinting and we notice each other at the same time, I’m most likely going to win because he will have to wait to bring his gun up after sprinting.

That’s on him for not checking his radar that’s not sprints fault lol your making excuses for a players bad decision. I use to tap the trigger to stop sprinting in halo 4 now when I do that I actualy get a shot out the way isnt that long and with a thruster to the side and a nice grenade boom more than just even specially if he pulls out a pistol or has a precision weapon

> 2533274835305187;12:
> > 2533274814855881;10:
> > Sprint ruins the game because it adds too many variables. If I go around a corner not sprinting and meet a guy that is sprinting and we notice each other at the same time, I’m most likely going to win because he will have to wait to bring his gun up after sprinting.
>
>
> That’s on him for not checking his radar that’s not sprints fault lol your making excuses for a players bad decision. I use to tap the trigger to stop sprinting in halo 4 now when I do that I actualy get a shot out the way isnt that long and with a thruster to the side and a nice grenade boom more than just even specially if he pulls out a pistol or has a precision weapon

I always crouched because it cancelled the animation quickest and lowered my head below many reticles. Now I slide :smiley:

> 2533274835305187;12:
> > 2533274814855881;10:
> > Sprint ruins the game because it adds too many variables. If I go around a corner not sprinting and meet a guy that is sprinting and we notice each other at the same time, I’m most likely going to win because he will have to wait to bring his gun up after sprinting.
>
>
> That’s on him for not checking his radar that’s not sprints fault lol your making excuses for a players bad decision. I use to tap the trigger to stop sprinting in halo 4 now when I do that I actualy get a shot out the way isnt that long and with a thruster to the side and a nice grenade boom more than just even specially if he pulls out a pistol or has a precision weapon

I personally can’t quite see how sprinting or not sprinting, or even radar would affect the outcome. If two players on opposite teams rush around the corner and meet face to face, they bash eachother’s face in. It’s an instinctive reaction. On the other hand, in Halo 5, they have the option to use thruster pack to dodge in any direction. Thruster pack adds variables. Sprint…not so much.

> 2533274880692195;1:
> Before anyone says “No it isn’t!” --hear me out on this, ok?
>
> 1) Let’s first consider a hypothetical scenario–a 1v1 match with, where players start off with only infinite sprint, and melee. No weapons. No other Spartan abilites. Just the ability–or option–to sprint for an infinite period of time, and melee, in addition to the standard movement mechanics. I should also note that the map they are playing on has no cover, and that you are unable to use ranged weapons whilst sprinting.- Clearly, anybody who does NOT always use sprint in this scenario will be at a severe disadvantage. So both players will use infinite sprint all the time, and that makes the base movement speed redundant–not required at all. In other words, sprint becomes the new base movement speed.
> 2) Now, let’s alter the scenario so we have temporary sprint. Everything else is the same as scenario #1.
> - Player A sprints away from Player B. Player B chases. The distance between Player A and B increases initially, but then Player A’s sprint runs out. Player B closes in on Player A, but then their sprint runs out. No change in tactical situation. Sprint is useless in this scenario.
> 3) Now, let’s alter the scenario further. Both players are now also equipped with a ranged weapon–let’s say a BR, and shields. We are using a sprint in this scenario which does not affect shields or anything else. In this scenario, sprint is still temporary.
> - Player B shoots at Player A. Player A refuses to fight, and sprints away, with their shields damaged. Player B laughs, continues shooting Player A, and Player A dies.
> - Or–Player A turns around and sprints towards Player B, hoping to get into melee range. Player B flees using sprint. Both players’ sprint runs out eventually. At this point, any number of things can happen. Player A can decide to stop sprinting towards Player B and start shooting, or Player B can stop, turn around, and risk Player A getting into melee range. The situation has reverted back to square one. Nothing changed as a result of using sprint.
> 4) Now, if sprint was infinite in the above scenario, we could have something completely ridiculous happen.
> - Once both players start sprinting, they may decide never to stop. The match would end with zero kills on either side. Otherwise the results would be exactly the same as scenario 3.
> 5) Now we have the scenario where sprint is tied into shields, like it is in Halo 5.
> - Player A shoots at Player B, then charges at them with sprint. Regardless of whether or not Player B sprints away or fights, Player A’s shields will not recover whilst sprinting. Player A dies faster than in scenario 3.
> 6) What about being able to shoot whilst sprinting? Maybe the accuracy of the weapon could just be reduced?
> - Nope. If the weapon accuracy is reduced too much, then its not effective to fire the weapon. If the weapon accuracy is affected too little, then Player B’s only choice is to charge towards Player A and bash in Player A’s skull–Player A sprinting would completely nerf Player B’s ranged weapon [the BR, remember?].
> 7) Okay, so one other thing to change. Add in cover to the map. What happens if sprint is or isn’t available?
> - Well, if Player A decides that they need cover, they would use sprint to get behind cover.
> - If sprint was not available, they would simply move towards the nearest cover, and get there a little later. But player B would also get to Player A’s location a little later, too.
> - If sprint was tied into shields and Player A and B had the option of using sprint or not, then Player A’s only option is to use sprint. Player A could use sprint and get into cover, hoping that Player B doesn’t get there before their shields recharge, or they could not use sprint, and hope that Player B doesn’t get there before their shields recharge. If player A does not use sprint, their shields will be lower because Player A’s shields won’t recharge either way until they get into cover. Player B will also be able to catch up to Player A faster because they will be using sprint to get to you before your shields can recharge.
> So, what does Sprint actually do? Remember, in all of the above scenarios the players were on equal footing. There were no teammates and no other Spartan abilities they could use to alter the situation. If Sprint requires one Player to make a strategic mistake for it to alter the tactical situation, then the mistake altered the situation, not Sprint. In order for Sprint to be useful, it needs to be able to improve a Player’s situation. If it can’t do that when players are on equal footing, then it isn’t useful in combat at all.
> - I’d just like to reiterate my point with scenario #6. If a short burst of speed is used by Player B to close the gap and melee Player A, then all other starting conditions being equal, Player A would also melee Player B. Both players would receive an equal amount of damage, and the situation is not altered at all.
> Alright, lets now think of a non-offensive and non-defensive situation in which Sprint could be useful.
>
> 1) Sprint is helpful for traversing large maps.
> - So are vehicles. Vehicles have guns. Big ones. Vehicles are better than sprint. Vehicles splatter sprinters.
> 2) Sprint is helpful for rushing in to save a teammate.
> - No it isn’t. Observation skills and teamwork are helpful for saving teammates. If you let your teammate get too far away from you, it doesn’t matter if you have Sprint or not. You won’t be able to save them. All that changes if Sprint is present in the game is that you can allow teammates to get further away from you. Map sizes tend to increase as a result.
> As far as I can tell, there is no gameplay scenario [aside from SWAT] where any form of Sprint is useful, when all other factors are equal. Sprint is only useful if one player has it and another player does not.
>
> A couple of other points: Thruster pack is another form of Sprint. So is Lunge [with an energy sword or when meleeing]. So is Slide. So is the Spartan Charge. These specialized Sprint varieties have far more uses than Sprint. The definition of Sprint is to move at top speed over a short distance. Infinite Sprint does not fit this definition.
> - Thruster pack is more useful than Sprint. It is used for evasion in combat–dodging a lunge, for instance.
> - Slide is more useful than Sprint. It is used for dodging a bullet and getting into cover quickly.
> - Charge isn’t that useful. I’d like to see it tied in with being stuck with a grenade, or dropping all weapons and going beserk like a Suicide Grunt or Brute.
> - Lunge is actually a quick gap closer, to make melee more useful when against ranged weapons.
> Finally, for those who complain that Spartans are slow and never run. Spartans are moving very fast all the time. Marines–normal humans–are a lot slower than you. Play Sierra 117 on Halo 3 for the best example–but any Halo game with Marines will do–also note Thomas Lasky’s walking pace on the Mammoth.
>
> As far as I’m concerned, Sprint in Halo is a little less useful than a Traffic cone or a Forklift. It doesn’t need to be there. But at least getting a kill with a Forklift or Traffic Cone is funny. Sprint isn’t. It’s just sort of…there, not doing anything. Whatever. I’ve said my piece. Ideas? Opinions? Other facts I missed? Discuss.

With Sprint you are disarmed, so there is never a time when it could be preferred over a faster base player speed. 343 only choses Sprint over 125 percent, because Sprint does not raise the skill gap it lowers it.

> With Sprint you are disarmed, so there is never a time when it could be preferred over a faster base player speed. 343 only choses Sprint over 125 percent, because Sprint does not raise the skill gap.

Ahem. Where did I mention changing the base speed in the OP? All I said was that with infinite sprint, the base speed would be redundant, especially in the specific scenario when there are no ranged weapons involved. Scenario #1 was a melee fight.

> 2533274880692195;9:
> > 2559411752528895;6:
> > Sprint is a thing in games now, better get used to it.
>
>
> Pfft. There’s a sprinting mechanic in Half-Life 1, and a sprinting mechanic in Bungie’s predecessor to Halo: Marathon. Heck, there’s a sprinting mechanic in Doom. Where have you been the last 20-odd years? Bungie didn’t include sprint in Halo back in 2001 because they felt it wasn’t necessary, not because it wasn’t present in other video games.

This. Sprint + Shields dont work in a FPS. Except for campers.

I sprint to get to team mates not to chase people down.

> 2533274880692195;16:
> > With Sprint you are disarmed, so there is never a time when it could be preferred over a faster base player speed. 343 only choses Sprint over 125 percent, because Sprint does not raise the skill gap.
>
>
>
> Ahem. Where did I mention changing the base speed in the OP? All I said was that with infinite sprint, the base speed would be redundant, especially in the specific scenario when there are no ranged weapons involved. Scenario #1 was a melee fight.

You did not, I did. The need for speed has been obvious since blood gulch. Sprint was chosen over 125 percent bps because 125 percent bps was deemed too steep a learning curve. I disagree with that assessment, but I think that’s the reasoning. I would much prefer the faster bps.

> This. Sprint + Shields dont work in a FPS. Except for campers.

Good point. SWAT is a gametype where Sprint would be useful–that gametype is for those who prefer gameplay which is a little less…Halo, anyway. That’s the great thing about Halo–it has just a little bit more versatility than most other shooters. If you want no shields in Halo, play SWAT. If you want Sprint in Halo, play SWAT. When you have shields and don’t make tactical mistakes, Sprint is a little less useful than a traffic cone in Halo 3.