Sprint: Endless circular discussions

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I love to dig into gameplay mechanics – and I love to discuss different perspectives, aspects and perceptions.
But let’s face it: After months and months of beating that dead horse Sprint discussions have become stagnant.

Most of the time it’s not about the exchange of perceptions, not about developing a more well-balanced understanding anymore – it’s about forcing one’s opinion and standards on others.
It’s about a stupid trench warfare in which every party thinks that they’re better than the ‘others’ (the COD-kids, those who live in the past,…) in every way imaginable.

It looks like an exchange on the surface level but in fact it’s just the same game of ‘I say A – you say B’ over and over again. If I see some user names I can already predict the response with 100% certainty.
And that of course is a phenomenon on both ‘sides’.
If anything the discussions showed me that it’s incredibly easy to dismiss and to devalue arguments of others.

So I’ve asked myself: Why do we spend so much of our time and energy in this board if we’re not willing to actually listen and learn?

At the end of the road there is no winner, no party will win that absurd ‘battle’ as Sprint is neither good nor bad. Both sides presented valid argument and perspectives – it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves what weighs more for them (and that’s totally subjective).

Having an opinion, having a preference is perfectly fine – outright opposition or absolute refusal is a sign that you should take a deep breath step back and think about your position and your motivations again.

We all love Halo. We want the best for this series. That’s why we fight for our beliefs, that’s why we spend countless hours writing messages in this board.
But I firmly believe that we’re losing all, that we actually hurt this franchise if we don’t stop fighting each other. In the end what we produce is not a better future for our game, what we produce is a climate of hostility.

I’m not better than others. I’m guilty of that stubbornness too. But I have actual respect for every single fan that supports this franchise in a mature way. And I had some wonderful discussions with people who were actually open-minded even if we agreed to disagree in the end.
But I won’t participate in Sprint discussion threads anymore unless I think I’ve got an aspect in mind that hasn’t been talked to death yet, something that really adds to the discussion. And I won’t react to people that didn’t move a millimeter in the past months.

Fellow Halo fans: Why can’t we work together to draw attention to problems that we all can stand behind (e.g. how long it took 343i to update playlists in the past)?
Why can’t we work together to find and support sensible and realistic solutions that help everyone (petition for a ‘classic playlist’ in H5 – not removing new features altogether)?

2

> 2533274793332039;1:
> I love to dig into gameplay mechanics – and I love to discuss different perspectives, aspects and perceptions.
> But let’s face it: After months and months of beating that dead horse Sprint discussions have become stagnant.
>
> Most of the time it’s not about the exchange of perceptions, not about developing a more well-balanced understanding anymore – it’s about forcing one’s opinion and standards on others.
> It’s about a stupid trench warfare in which every party thinks that they’re better than the ‘others’ (the COD-kids, those who live in the past,…) in every way imaginable.
>
> It looks like an exchange on the surface level but in fact it’s just the same game of ‘I say A – you say B’ over and over again. If I see some user names I can already predict the response with 100% certainty.
> And that of course is a phenomenon on both ‘sides’.
> If anything the discussions showed me that it’s incredibly easy to dismiss and to devalue arguments of others.
>
> So I’ve asked myself: Why do we spend so much of our time and energy in this board if we’re not willing to actually listen and learn?
>
> At the end of the road there is no winner, no party will win that absurd ‘battle’ as Sprint is neither good nor bad. Both sides presented valid argument and perspectives – it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves what weighs more for them (and that’s totally subjective).
>
> Having an opinion, having a preference is perfectly fine – outright opposition or absolute refusal is a sign that you should take a deep breath step back and think about your position and your motivations again.
>
> We all love Halo. We want the best for this series. That’s why we fight for our beliefs, that’s why we spend countless hours writing messages in this board.
> But I firmly believe that we’re losing all, that we actually hurt this franchise if we don’t stop fighting each other. In the end what we produce is not a better future for our game, what we produce is a climate of hostility.
>
> I’m not better than others. I’m guilty of that stubbornness too. But I have actual respect for every single fan that supports this franchise in a mature way. And I had some wonderful discussions with people who were actually open-minded even if we agreed to disagree in the end.
> But I won’t participate in Sprint discussion threads anymore unless I think I’ve got an aspect in mind that hasn’t been talked to death yet, something that really adds to the discussion. And I won’t react to people that didn’t move a millimeter in the past months.
>
> Fellow Halo fans: Why can’t we work together to draw attention to problems that we all can stand behind (e.g. how long it took 343i to update playlists in the past)?
> Why can’t we work together to find and support sensible and realistic solutions that help everyone (petition for a ‘classic playlist’ in H5 – not removing new features altogether)?

343 needs to make a team slayer playlist with sprint.
And one without sprint.

End of Discussion GOOD BYE

3

> 2533274883108544;2:
> 343 needs to make a team slayer playlist with sprint.
> And one without sprint.
>
> End of Discussion GOOD BYE

Halo Reach released in 2010 with a Sprint ability.
Halo 4 released in 2012.
We’re discussing H5’s Sprint addition for half a year.
So that’s four to five years of Sprint discussions.

We’ve discussed all aspects of Sprint to death - over and over and over again…
It’s a really important topic - but it’s long blown out of propotion, it’s like an obsession for some.

A feature that is in every other recent console FPS out there.
Which doesn’t mean that it’s all fine and we shouldn’t think critically - but everything within reason.

I see no reason in the discussions anymore.

The same arguments from both sides.
The same usual suspects.
The same bad blood because only a few are willing to accept that there is no ‘truth’, no ‘winner’ no ‘objectively better arguments’ just different people preferring different things.

It’s time to wake up and realize that there are two sides to almost every point of discussion. Both valid, both reasonable and none better than the other.

I perfectly understand some people who are very critical when it comes to Sprint.
I also understand why other people think it’s a great asset.

4

If we can get through to one kid, then it’s all worth it!!

5

This debate should continue, but it should continue with manners and in the spirit of education. You’re right to point out that it has largely boiled down to finger-pointing and name-calling. I guess that’s largely due to conflict fatigue. We all have sprint-related ptsd.

I just want to remind everyone that even though you may have in the past marshaled a thousand good arguments in favor of your cause… as you go forward in these forums your opponents may be the same old gamertags, but other people read these posts, and to some of them the discussions are new. I urge you to steer away from the kinds of statements that are designed to shut down debate, and be willing to restate your arguments over and over again, as many times as it takes, for the benefit of a new audience. Be as eloquent and detailed as you can. It helps everyone, even the people who don’t agree with, who will never agree with you.

6

Honestly, as much as I agree with you on this one, it won’t change anything. You can stand from an objective point of view, but it really doesn’t make discussing the subject any easier, people are way too over-zealous about how THEY think the game should be, that goes for all sides. I’ve been accused of playing Devil’s Advocate more than once, but to me, I could care less if the game has sprint or not, what matters to me is if the game is good.

It’s the same with every community, almost always two sides… Xbox vs. Playstation, Battlefield vs. CoD, Destiny as a good game vs. Destiny as a bad game. It’s the same everywhere, thing is, these companies love this kind of controversy, it gets people riled up, and it also (most importantly) helps garner attention for the games and consoles.

7

> 2535438961934440;4:
> If we can get through to one kid, then it’s all worth it!!

Talking about obsession and the devaluation of others…

So many things wrong within one sentence.

1.) If we…
I’m reading Broken Circle right now - are you in some kind of holy alliance?

2.) … can get through …
Okay, I see where this is going. Those stubborn people need education!
And you bring the truth and wisdom, how noble of you!

3.) … to one kid …
Alright, so everyone who isn’t in your party is a kid. A kid that needs saving.
I’m 30 years old. Do you know how arrogant and intolerant that sounds?

4.) … then it’s all worth it!
Well, I’m telling you one thing: For every person you ‘convert’ there is another one standing up because he thinks you’re totally out of your mind.
There are millions of people out there who buy Halo that don’t even give a damn what people like us write in discussion boards. They’re playing CoD and Destiny and all the other games with Sprint and just have fun.
343i has their own data. Data that is more representative of the overall player population than anything you can see here.
Seriously do whatever you think you have to do - the more I’m talking about how this industry works the more you probably think you’re some kind of William Wallace.

While in fact you are blind - blind to see that there are other people who don’t need to be degraded to the status of a kid just because they have another opinion.
People who have listened to all of the arguments and still like that feature (believe it or not).

I still think that you want the best for this franchise. You’ve at least got my respect for that.

8

Agreed, why cant we work together.

9

> 2533274793332039;7:
> > 2535438961934440;4:
> > If we can get through to one kid, then it’s all worth it!!
>
>
> Talking about obsession and the devaluation of others…
>
> So many things wrong within one sentence.
>
> 1.) If we…
> I’m reading Broken Circle right now - are you in some kind of holy alliance?
>
> 2.) … can get through …
> Okay, I see where this is going. Those stubborn people need education!
> And you bring the truth and wisdom, how noble of you!
>
> 3.) … to one kid …
> Alright, so everyone who isn’t in your party is a kid. A kid that needs saving.
> I’m 30 years old. Do you know how arrogant and intolerant that sounds?
>
> 4.) … then it’s all worth it!
> Well, I’m telling you one thing: For every person you ‘convert’ there is another one standing up because he thinks you’re totally out of your mind.
> There are millions of people out there who buy Halo that don’t even give a damn what people like us write in discussion boards. They’re playing CoD and Destiny and all the other games with Sprint and just have fun.
> 343i has their own data. Data that is more representative of the overall player population than anything you can see here.
> Seriously do whatever you think you have to do - the more I’m talking about how this industry works the more you probably think you’re some kind of William Wallace.
>
> While in fact you are blind - blind to see that there are other people who don’t need to be degraded to the status of a kid just because they have another opinion.
> People who have listened to all of the arguments and still like that feature (believe it or not).
>
> I still think that you want the best for this franchise. You’ve at least got my respect for that.

It was a joke -_____-

People can discuss whatever they want. If you don’t like it I suggest not opening those threads. I find campaign lore threads silly but I dont whine about thier existance.

10

> 2535438961934440;9:
> > 2533274793332039;7:
> > > 2535438961934440;4:
> > > If we can get through to one kid, then it’s all worth it!!
> >
> >
> > Talking about obsession and the devaluation of others…
> >
> > So many things wrong within one sentence.
> >
> > 1.) If we…
> > I’m reading Broken Circle right now - are you in some kind of holy alliance?
> >
> > 2.) … can get through …
> > Okay, I see where this is going. Those stubborn people need education!
> > And you bring the truth and wisdom, how noble of you!
> >
> > 3.) … to one kid …
> > Alright, so everyone who isn’t in your party is a kid. A kid that needs saving.
> > I’m 30 years old. Do you know how arrogant and intolerant that sounds?
> >
> > 4.) … then it’s all worth it!
> > Well, I’m telling you one thing: For every person you ‘convert’ there is another one standing up because he thinks you’re totally out of your mind.
> > There are millions of people out there who buy Halo that don’t even give a damn what people like us write in discussion boards. They’re playing CoD and Destiny and all the other games with Sprint and just have fun.
> > 343i has their own data. Data that is more representative of the overall player population than anything you can see here.
> > Seriously do whatever you think you have to do - the more I’m talking about how this industry works the more you probably think you’re some kind of William Wallace.
> >
> > While in fact you are blind - blind to see that there are other people who don’t need to be degraded to the status of a kid just because they have another opinion.
> > People who have listened to all of the arguments and still like that feature (believe it or not).
> >
> > I still think that you want the best for this franchise. You’ve at least got my respect for that.
>
>
> It was a joke -_____-
>
> People can discuss whatever they want. If you don’t like it I suggest not opening those threads. I find campaign lore threads silly but I dont whine about thier existance.

…says the person who just created another thread called “AN ANALOGY AS TO WHY SPRINT IS AWFUL” - best joke ever!

MCC Graham would you work together with me to start a petition for something we can both get behind?

I’m just talking about how the community is running in circles - and I’m asking you to think about it.

I would LOVE to talk about other things - but those sprint threads keep coming back like weed.
It’s not enough to have one or two big threads where the holy warriors can fight it out.
No, we need a new Sprint thread with the same old arguments every day.

11

IMO the #1 discussion surrounding Halo 5 should be about aim assist, hitbox size, and bullet magnetism. Because if the core point-and-shoot foundation on which the entire game is built upon is not engaging and rewarding, then the entire thing will collapse.

Nonetheless, these sprint discussions have clearly had impact on the game design. Otherwise we would not have seen all the sprint changes done for Halo 5. Personally I think Halo 5 is well staged to be the first Halo game with a well-balanced sprint mechanic.

Those entrenched anti-sprinters will likely never get what they want, given that sprint is an industry standard FPS mechanic, and 343’s own survey indicated only 11% of the community were entrenched anti-sprint people. But at the very least, the anti-sprint crowd has helped shift sprint’s function into a more classic Halo realm, which is good.

As more an more conversations about sprint unfold, I feel like I have gained insight on the framework of various opinions.

12

OP, great post. To this day I’m still unaware of why this is so adamantly argued over, and this is someone who has been a hardcore Halo fan since Combat Evolved and played every game hence. Yeah, some people don’t like it, some people do, regardless of what your preference is, beating a dead horse does nothing for anyone. It certainly isn’t getting removed and continuing futile arguments either for or against really does nothing, except put you in a bad mood.

I just wish the community would come together a little more instead of being divided.

13

> 2610345319735860;11:
> IMO the #1 discussion surrounding Halo 5 should be about aim assist, hitbox size, and bullet magnetism. Because if the core point-and-shoot foundation on which the entire game is built upon is not engaging and rewarding, then the entire thing will collapse.
>
> Nonetheless, these sprint discussions have clearly had impact on the game design. Otherwise we would not have seen all the sprint changes done for Halo 5. Personally I think Halo 5 is well staged to be the first Halo game with a well-balanced sprint mechanic.
>
> Those entrenched anti-sprinters will likely never get what they want, given that sprint is an industry standard FPS mechanic, and 343’s own survey indicated only 11% of the community were entrenched anti-sprint people. But at the very least, the anti-sprint crowd has helped shift sprint’s function into a more classic Halo realm, which is good.
>
> As more an more conversations about sprint unfold, I feel like I have gained insight on the framework of various opinions.

This is also a good point. In my experience, the extremely vocal detractors don’t make up a majority of people who are looking forward to Halo. Most people who are stoked about it don’t have anything to say on places like Waypoint, so they just move along. The argument always seems decisively split, even though in actuality it really isn’t. Still, it’s important to keep making noise because as we’ve seen, 343 reacts appropriately.

14

> 2533274793332039;10:
> > 2535438961934440;9:
> > > 2533274793332039;7:
> > > > 2535438961934440;4:
> > > > If we can get through to one kid, then it’s all worth it!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Talking about obsession and the devaluation of others…
> > >
> > > So many things wrong within one sentence.
> > >
> > > 1.) If we…
> > > I’m reading Broken Circle right now - are you in some kind of holy alliance?
> > >
> > > 2.) … can get through …
> > > Okay, I see where this is going. Those stubborn people need education!
> > > And you bring the truth and wisdom, how noble of you!
> > >
> > > 3.) … to one kid …
> > > Alright, so everyone who isn’t in your party is a kid. A kid that needs saving.
> > > I’m 30 years old. Do you know how arrogant and intolerant that sounds?
> > >
> > > 4.) … then it’s all worth it!
> > > Well, I’m telling you one thing: For every person you ‘convert’ there is another one standing up because he thinks you’re totally out of your mind.
> > > There are millions of people out there who buy Halo that don’t even give a damn what people like us write in discussion boards. They’re playing CoD and Destiny and all the other games with Sprint and just have fun.
> > > 343i has their own data. Data that is more representative of the overall player population than anything you can see here.
> > > Seriously do whatever you think you have to do - the more I’m talking about how this industry works the more you probably think you’re some kind of William Wallace.
> > >
> > > While in fact you are blind - blind to see that there are other people who don’t need to be degraded to the status of a kid just because they have another opinion.
> > > People who have listened to all of the arguments and still like that feature (believe it or not).
> > >
> > > I still think that you want the best for this franchise. You’ve at least got my respect for that.
> >
> >
> > It was a joke -_____-
> >
> > People can discuss whatever they want. If you don’t like it I suggest not opening those threads. I find campaign lore threads silly but I dont whine about thier existance.
>
>
> …says the person who just created another thread called “AN ANALOGY AS TO WHY SPRINT IS AWFUL” - best joke ever!
>
> MCC Graham would you work together with me to start a petition for something we can both get behind?
>
> I’m just talking about how the community is running in circles - and I’m asking you to think about it.
>
> I would LOVE to talk about other things - but those sprint threads keep coming back like weed.
> It’s not enough to have one or two big threads where the holy warriors can fight it out.
> No, we need a new Sprint thread with the same old arguments every day.

I dont really care to talk about much else besides the “modernisation” movement.

If you want to talk about something else, go in different threads.

15

> 2533274793332039;1:
> I love to dig into gameplay mechanics – and I love to discuss different perspectives, aspects and perceptions.
> But let’s face it: After months and months of beating that dead horse Sprint discussions have become stagnant.
>
> Most of the time it’s not about the exchange of perceptions, not about developing a more well-balanced understanding anymore – it’s about forcing one’s opinion and standards on others.
> It’s about a stupid trench warfare in which every party thinks that they’re better than the ‘others’ (the COD-kids, those who live in the past,…) in every way imaginable.
>
> It looks like an exchange on the surface level but in fact it’s just the same game of ‘I say A – you say B’ over and over again. If I see some user names I can already predict the response with 100% certainty.
> And that of course is a phenomenon on both ‘sides’.
> If anything the discussions showed me that it’s incredibly easy to dismiss and to devalue arguments of others.
>
> So I’ve asked myself: Why do we spend so much of our time and energy in this board if we’re not willing to actually listen and learn?
>
> At the end of the road there is no winner, no party will win that absurd ‘battle’ as Sprint is neither good nor bad. Both sides presented valid argument and perspectives – it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves what weighs more for them (and that’s totally subjective).
>
> Having an opinion, having a preference is perfectly fine – outright opposition or absolute refusal is a sign that you should take a deep breath step back and think about your position and your motivations again.
>
> We all love Halo. We want the best for this series. That’s why we fight for our beliefs, that’s why we spend countless hours writing messages in this board.
> But I firmly believe that we’re losing all, that we actually hurt this franchise if we don’t stop fighting each other. In the end what we produce is not a better future for our game, what we produce is a climate of hostility.
>
> I’m not better than others. I’m guilty of that stubbornness too. But I have actual respect for every single fan that supports this franchise in a mature way. And I had some wonderful discussions with people who were actually open-minded even if we agreed to disagree in the end.
> But I won’t participate in Sprint discussion threads anymore unless I think I’ve got an aspect in mind that hasn’t been talked to death yet, something that really adds to the discussion. And I won’t react to people that didn’t move a millimeter in the past months.
>
> Fellow Halo fans: Why can’t we work together to draw attention to problems that we all can stand behind (e.g. how long it took 343i to update playlists in the past)?
> Why can’t we work together to find and support sensible and realistic solutions that help everyone (petition for a ‘classic playlist’ in H5 – not removing new features altogether)?

So long?

16

I’m actually thankful that the criticsm helped to make H5 a better game.

But there is a reasonable limit for everything… we havn’t even seen the changes after the Beta… we havn’t seen other parts of the game like campaign or BTB at all.

Why those features are in the game might make a lot more sense in context.

17

> 2533274963205596;12:
> OP, great post. To this day I’m still unaware of why this is so adamantly argued over, and this is someone who has been a hardcore Halo fan since Combat Evolved and played every game hence. Yeah, some people don’t like it, some people do, regardless of what your preference is, beating a dead horse does nothing for anyone. It certainly isn’t getting removed and continuing futile arguments either for or against really does nothing, except put you in a bad mood.
>
> I just wish the community would come together a little more instead of being divided.

Sad to say but that won’t happen anytime soon.

18

I think Sprint arguments would be a lot more fruitful if people decided not to tackle them from a subjective standpoint, but from the thought of “what makes the gameplay better?”

Very rarely does a sprint thread discuss the actual gameplay in any significant detail. A large majority of the time the posts are convoluted ways of discrediting the other persons opinions without every addressing what those opinions or points were.

That guy likes sprint because reasons? Well he’s probably bad at the game.

That guy dislikes sprint because reasons? He’s just a whining purist part of the vocal minority and we should ignore him.

^Just for a couple of examples for how the average sprint thread goes. It boggles my mind that people resort to insults and offhanded snarky remarks will somehow do anything other than piss people off. It’s everywhere. Comments about whining purists, comments about stupid casuals. I just don’t get why anybody feels to need to say any of those things. What does it prove? Come to think of it, what’s this whole business with asserting the other group is the minority? Since when did being the minority inherently make somebody wrong?

And I’ve asked people plenty of times: “If you like sprint, how does it improve the game from a gameplay standpoint?”

Yet nobody has given a sufficiently detailed answer. Oh sure there’s the usual “it makes it faster” but faster doesn’t mean better. What depth does it add, what strategy? What can I do with sprint that I couldn’t do without it? And what can it do that the Thruster pack couldn’t in a manner that has a more positive impact on the game?

There’s constant bickering but no ground being made because nobody feels the need to tackle things objectively and then justify their observations. Sprint discussions don’t have to be circular, and they don’t have to stop, but we’re not going to make headway if nobody is willing to put any remote effort into what they’re debating. That goes for everybody, not just one group or the other.

> 2533274963205596;12:
> OP, great post. To this day I’m still unaware of why this is so adamantly argued over.

From my perspective, because it affects everything. Not just how you move or interact with the environment, but how that environment is designed, how weapons are balanced, how grenades and radar and everything else interact with eachother. Sprint has this snowball effect that leaves ripples in every part of the game.

This in itself isn’t an issue. When one person prefers it without sprint and the other with, however, then we have a problem. There’s really no way to make both sides happy without designing to fundamentally different games. If you put sprint into a game that’s not designed for it, it creates a whole slew of problems. Likewise, if you take sprint out of a game designed for it, it’s equally problematic.

Unless 343i designs two games, they can’t appeal to both demographics.

> 2533274963205596;12:
> It certainly isn’t getting removed and continuing futile arguments either for or against really does nothing, except put you in a bad mood.

Eh, things change. I see no reason to act like it’s impossible for sprint to not appear in the next game. If I don’t like sprint and I don’t want it in Halo 6, should I shut up just because some people think it’s futile? That in and of itself is what makes it futile.

As for being put in a bad mood, sprint discussion don’t really make me mad. Getting offhandedly referred to as a whining purist while nobody is willing to tackle my points or put forward well constructed arguments of their own, now that puts me in a bad mood. Generally just watching how poorly the community treats itself and eachother is enough to make anyone unhappy.

> 2533274963205596;12:
> I just wish the community would come together a little more instead of being divided.

Until people decide to stop acting like jerks as though it’s going to solve any problems, this unfortunately isn’t going to happen.

Why people think insults fix anything is beyond me.

19

> 2533274908238201;18:
> I think Sprint arguments would be a lot more fruitful if people decided not to tackle them from a subjective standpoint, but from the thought of “what makes the gameplay better?”
>
> Very rarely does a sprint thread discuss the actual gameplay in any significant detail. A large majority of the time the posts are convoluted ways of discrediting the other persons opinions without every addressing what those opinions or points were.
>
> That guy likes sprint because reasons? Well he’s probably bad at the game.
>
> That guy dislikes sprint because reasons? He’s just a whining purist part of the vocal minority and we should ignore him.

You are a voice of reason in the wilderness. The problem, though, and of course, is that “what makes gameplay better” is highly subjective.

20

> 2533274908238201;18:
> I think Sprint arguments would be a lot more fruitful if people decided not to tackle them from a subjective standpoint, but from the thought of “what makes the gameplay better?”
>
> Very rarely does a sprint thread discuss the actual gameplay in any significant detail. A large majority of the time the posts are convoluted ways of discrediting the other persons opinions without every addressing what those opinions or points were.

Sorry but the belief that there is a possibility to objectively discuss gameplay (and it’s ‘quality’) is at the bottom of the whole problem.

Basically it is a logic used by the purist group to both tell others that their arguments don’t count (immersion, perception of speed/power,…) AND a way to express their superiority (‘We’re so much more clever than you!’).

In fact all you could do is to describe in which ways the systems are different (without any subjective evaluation – which is wishful thinking) - but there are only a few areas that allow a quasi-objective statement (because they are so obvious that no other evidence is needed).
The rest of the oh so objective arguments are nothing more than claims (guided by the person’s beliefs) that can’t be proven right or denied most of the time.
People just pick the ‘evidence’ (what they experienced or a certain map or a certain gameplay clip) that fits their own agenda to make a point.
This is a catastrophe as that’s the anti-thesis of a scientific approach and couldn’t be farther away from being objective (it’s dangerous as it has the ‘coat’ of it).

The truth is that based on the limited data we have there is very little that we can actually prove. Even if we had the game to start some experiments (e.g. measuring the size of objects) it would be a very very difficult job to make fair and unbiased comparisons (e.g. Midship vs Truth) as the games are designed around other principles and mechanics.

**In the end it all comes down to how the game makes you feel. Different gameplay systems are not inherently good or bad they just offer different possibilities and rewards to different subgroups (people with different skill-sets, people with a competitive mindset vs people with a more casual mindset,…).**Not accepting that, putting your own needs above all others and believing that you’re fighting for an universal truth is the source of all intolerance we’re seeing in the discussions.

You can’t argue perceptions away.
But perceptions are the sole thing that really counts in the end.
It’s that easy.