Sprint Change List

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I was originally going to post this in the other current Sprint thread, but while writing it, the post became extensive enough to warrant its own discussion. My stance on the sprint debacle is that it should stay with fixes, and that players should be able to turn it off in game options. Honestly, I’ve grown accustom to it, and I think I’d miss it should it face outright removal. I think better designed maps and some very necessary changes could give sprint much wider acceptance than it currently sees.

Onto the change list. First of all, Spartans should be moving at a consistently fast pace ideal for combat. Sprint shouldn’t be seen as necessary in a firefight, but rather in getting to a firefight. In order to accomplish this, we would make the default movement speed higher – maybe up to 15% faster than in Halo 4.

Secondly, we would simply remove the Mobility perk from existence.

Third, we make it so that sprint speed increases over the course of its seven seconds. I don’t remember the exact speed a sprinting Spartan reaches, but for the sake of explanation, let’s say its 150%. Bump the amount of time you can Sprint up to ten seconds, and have it increase incrementally each second (if 115% is base movement speed, then you’d go 125% after the first second, 135% after the second second, 145% after the third second, and finally capping at 150% after the fourth; giving players 6 seconds at full sprint).

Finally, to further cement sprint in its role as “purely mobility,” make it so that a Spartan’s sprint is hindered/stopped when he’s under fire. This point is probably the most divisive. However, rather then having one stray bullet being able to pull a Spartan out of sprint, it should be a set amount of damage. A small amount, but enough so that crossfire generally won’t be the cause of your movement’s hindrance. In order to pull a Spartan out of sprint, a player should have to be shooting directly at them.

I believe sprint should be rendered somewhat ineffective in combat, as to encourage players to focus on traditional strafing, jumping, and shooting. I think that the changes I described above, working in conjunction, would accomplish that, while still giving players adequate mobility outside of battle.

Anyway, I made this thread to hear people’s thoughts – especially those who are utterly against sprint returning. What would go on your sprint change list? Would these points be better for the game?

2

Does maps still have to accomodate sprint then? Since it’s present?

Do we have smaller maps or slower movement speed?

If we retain high movement speed and still implement sprint in this fashion, maps would need to be bigger in order to make sprint useful, especially if it takes 6-7 seconds to reach max speed, then again I imagine these are rough numbers that are up for change and balancing.

If maps remain small, what’s the use of sprint?

I don’t see why we’re trying to shoehorn the feature in when all that’s needed to make the game feel faster is a higher base movement speed and an increased FoV. If the question is to make it feel faster. Or is there another reason that has gameplay as an argument?

3

I am also of the opinion that Sprint could work with proper map design (a main factor) and several adjustments.
However, you have to keep in mind that with the implementation of Sprint exact map remakes (even when up-scaled) wouldn’t work properly anymore, what is most noticable for the 4v4 maps.

To your list I would like to add the removal of Instant Respawn, since its negative impact on the game flow has been increased with its combination with Sprint.
A proper respawn countdown is needed. A respawn countdown is a really important feature anyway in my opinion.

Perhaps you would have to decrease the time of the shield recharge as well, since players can get faster to you while your pants (shields) are down.

In case of stopping power, perhaps different weapons could have different stopping powers and impacts on sprinting players.

4

> Does maps still have to accomodate sprint then? Since it’s present?
>
> Do we have smaller maps or slower movement speed?
>
> If we retain high movement speed and still implement sprint in this fashion, <mark>maps would need to be bigger in order to make sprint useful</mark>, especially if it takes 6-7 seconds to reach max speed, then again I imagine these are rough numbers that are up for change and balancing.
>
> If maps remain small, what’s the use of sprint?
>
> I don’t see why we’re trying to shoehorn the feature in when all that’s needed to make the game feel faster is a higher base movement speed and an increased FoV. If the question is to make it feel faster. Or is there another reason that has gameplay as an argument?

That’s the thing – on small maps, sprint doesn’t have to be useful. The main point of this system is to keep sprint for players who like it, but change it in such a way that you can play just as well without it. If sprint’s main purpose is utility and getting yourself to the fight faster, you simply wouldn’t need to use it on smaller maps when the fight is right around the corner (in fact, it may be detrimental to). And if you read the post a bit more carefully, I wrote that it would take 4 seconds to reach max speed, not 6-7.

The reason to keep sprint is because some people have grown accustomed to it. They may not be as numerous as the individuals against it, but in my experience, its better to find a happy medium then to outright ignore one party. For the people who really hate sprint, the individuals who truly believe the multiplayer would not salvageable with sprint included, we could just have a dedicated playlist (“Classic Slayer” or something similar) without it.

> I am also of the opinion that Sprint could work with proper map design (a main factor) and several adjustments.
> However, you have to keep in mind that with the implementation of Sprint exact map remakes (even when up-scaled) wouldn’t work properly anymore, what is most noticable for the 4v4 maps.

I would rather new maps or spiritual successors to 1:1 remakes any day.

> To your list I would like to add the removal of Instant Respawn, since its negative impact on the game flow has been increased with its combination with Sprint.
> A proper respawn countdown is needed. A respawn countdown is a really important feature anyway in my opinion.

Absolutely. In my opinion, instant respawn is detrimental anywhere except for BTB.

> Perhaps you would have to decrease the time of the shield recharge as well, since players can get faster to you while your pants (shields) are down.

I’d be fine with that, but I’m not really sure its an issue. If a player wants to stop shooting to sprint at you when your shields are down, you can simply sprint as well. If he decides not to shoot at you, he can’t stop you from repositioning.

> In case of stopping power, perhaps different weapons could have different stopping powers and impacts on sprinting players.

Naturally.

5

Making sprint have such a longer acceleration time really increases the unpredictability, since he could be moving anywhere from 100% speed to 150% at any given time. When aiming, do I try to account for 100% speed, or 110%, or 120%, or 135%, etc.? This would become a problem especially when using a weapon that you would normally lead your target with, such as the sniper rifle or rocket launcher.

For me, players using sprint to escape from battles is really a non-issue (I don’t care about it). No matter what, as long as you have sprint, you have two movement speeds. Your combat speed is less than full speed. You will have to forfeit the ability to defend yourself in order to get around the map in a reasonable time.

6

Sprint still doesn’t add any depth to the game, and still impacts map sizes. Not only that but nerfing it’s speed function, the main point of putting it in, just makes it that much more pointless. It doesn’t solve any problems, it only creates them, and needs to be removed because there is not fix for this ability.

7

> Making sprint have such a longer acceleration time really increases the unpredictability, since he could be moving anywhere from 100% speed to 150% at any given time. <mark>When aiming, do I try to account for 100% speed, or 110%, or 120%, or 135%, etc.? This would become a problem especially when using a weapon that you would normally lead your target with, such as the sniper rifle or rocket launcher.</mark>
>
> For me, players using sprint to escape from battles is really a non-issue (I don’t care about it). No matter what, as long as you have sprint, you have two movement speeds. Your combat speed is less than full speed. You will have to forfeit the ability to defend yourself in order to get around the map in a reasonable time.

well what if each time the Spartan’s speed increased it’s current sprinting animation would change to give someone aiming at the target a sense of how fast the target is moving.

8

> > To your list I would like to add the removal of Instant Respawn, since its negative impact on the game flow has been increased with its combination with Sprint.
> > A proper respawn countdown is needed. A respawn countdown is a really important feature anyway in my opinion.
>
> Absolutely. In my opinion, instant respawn is detrimental anywhere except for BTB.

I wouldn’t like to have Instant Respawn even in BTB (my favorite playlist).
Instant Respawn is something that should simply not exist in the regular playlists in my opinion and like I’ve mentioned, especially not in combination with Default Sprint.
In my opinion the Respawn Countdown is an important aspect in Halo’s gameplay.
You have to wait a certain amount of seconds that allow you to calm down a little, to shortly analyse what went wrong or what happened, to think out a new strategy and most important during that time your team could really need you, so it gives your death a meaning.
With Instant Respawn you die but in the same second you can already be right back into the fight again. Because of that it doesn’t even feel like you died. It’s like your team haven’t even lost you. Your death has no meaning or consequences anymore, except to be a point for the enemy.
That’s why I prefer a proper Respawn Countdown and think it is needed.

9

> Sprint still doesn’t add any depth to the game, and still impacts map sizes. Not only that but nerfing it’s speed function, the main point of putting it in, just makes it that much more pointless. It doesn’t solve any problems, it only creates them, and needs to be removed because there is not fix for this ability.

Sprint is beneficial in Campaign, Spartan Ops, and Big Team Battle, and would be even with these changes. I don’t see how you can call it pointless, given that it has a clear point (to get you from one place to another faster).

Sprint only really hurts the game on smaller maps. That’s what this change list is based around; keeping the benefits sprint provides to other aspects of the game, and removing the negatives it has on this one. Small, arena style maps can accommodate sprint (Monolith was great), its just that we just haven’t seen it done very often, and Halo 4 sprinting had some definite problems. It’s a challenge, but it’s a challenge 343 took up when they chose to add sprint into the game. The goal of any developer is to showcase their ideas to others and elicit a good reaction. To me, the ultimate test of 343 as a developer is to showcase sprint in such a way that even someone like you does not have a problem with it.

10

> For me, players using sprint to escape from battles is really a non-issue (I don’t care about it). No matter what, as long as you have sprint, you have two movement speeds. Your combat speed is less than full speed. You will have to forfeit the ability to defend yourself in order to get around the map in a reasonable time.

This pretty well sums it up perfectly.

Even on small maps, two different movement speeds (the slower of which doesn’t allow you to fight) still breaks the game as people WILL sprint to escape combat, help team-mates, or secure power weapons and power positions on the map; which therefore once again results in unpredictable, chaotic gameplay.

I am sure you have played Onyx or Simplex in H4? Both are what you would call traditional ‘arena’ maps yet neither play very akin to their spiritual predecessor Midship due to the chaotic effect of sprint, and none of the changes you listed would do anything to alleviate this as they do nothing but add further complexity to an already broken mechanic.

Sprint will never work in Halo regardless of how much you try to force it. Halo was built on simple yet deep mechanics. I fail to see how anyone can not see the logic in having a singular, fast movement speed (Halo 1-2), it is literally the only way we will see both the return of interesting maps and traditional halo combat.

11

> > Sprint still doesn’t add any depth to the game, and still impacts map sizes. Not only that but nerfing it’s speed function, the main point of putting it in, just makes it that much more pointless. It doesn’t solve any problems, it only creates them, and needs to be removed because there is not fix for this ability.
>
> Sprint is beneficial in Campaign, Spartan Ops, and Big Team Battle, and would be even with these changes. I don’t see how you can call it pointless, given that it has a clear point (to get you from one place to another faster).
>
> Sprint only really hurts the game on smaller maps. That’s what this change list is based around; keeping the benefits sprint provides to other aspects of the game, and removing the negatives it has on this one. Small, arena style maps can accommodate sprint (Monolith was great), its just that we just haven’t seen it done very often, and Halo 4 sprinting had some definite problems. It’s a challenge, but it’s a challenge 343 took up when they chose to add sprint into the game. The goal of any developer is to showcase their ideas to others and elicit a good reaction. To me, the ultimate test of 343 as a developer is to showcase sprint in such a way that even someone like you does not have a problem with it.

It would get you to other places faster, if maps weren’t scaled up to accommodate it. Shutout is terrible with sprint, but monolith plays well with it because it was designed for it. That’s why the new maps can’t come close to the old ones, because it’s always affecting maps no matter what. It causes the absence of trick jumps almost entirely as well. I will agree that it works with campaign, but if it were to return to campaign only, I would like for our guns to be raised as we sprint. This is a less generic way to sprint, and less generic is something halo needs at the moment.

12

> Even on small maps, two different movement speeds (the slower of which doesn’t allow you to fight)…

How do you figure? I never realized you could only fight while sprinting.

> …still breaks the game as people WILL sprint to escape combat, help team-mates, or secure power weapons and power positions on the map; which therefore once again results in unpredictable, chaotic gameplay.

Giving players the ability to stop others from sprinting prevents players from using it to escape combat. I fail to see what the issue with delivering aid to a team-mate is. As for sprinting to key locations on the map, I don’t see a huge issue with that either. None of this is unpredictable gameplay. Racing to power weapons/positions is a staple of the game (at least, it was when weapons on map were a thing).

> I am sure you have played Onyx or Simplex in H4? Both are what you would call traditional ‘arena’ maps yet neither play very akin to their spiritual predecessor Midship due to the chaotic effect of sprint, and none of the changes you listed would do anything to alleviate this as they do nothing but add further complexity to an already broken mechanic.

Out of the problems you listed with sprint, I provided a solution to one and don’t agree with the others. I understand that sprint is detrimental to the game in its current state, and the solutions I posted in the OP go hand in hand with my reasons. You say that they would do nothing to alleviate the problems with sprint, yet you claimed this:

> people WILL sprint to escape combat…

…Was a problem in your previous paragraph, the solution to which is one of the points that I offered. I guess you missed it…?

> Sprint will never work in Halo regardless of how much you try to force it. Halo was built on simple yet deep mechanics. I fail to see how anyone can not see the logic in having a singular, fast movement speed (Halo 1-2), it is literally the only way we will see both the return of interesting maps and traditional halo combat.

Just because you haven’t seen it work does not mean it can’t. I think it’s pretty easy not to see the logic in having a singular movement speed when you do such a poor job explaining its importance.

I don’t want to come off as wholly against you, however. It’s absolutely important to put more emphasis on our default speed; this is why I said that it should be increased by about 15% (closing the gap between standard speed and sprint speed). I believe that we can make sprint work if we emphasize traditional combat, have better designed maps, and nerf sprint to a point where its effectiveness is essentially limited to an increase in mobility outside of battle.

13

I find sprint -Yoinking!- annoying. Sprint is not as big of an issue as people make it out to be. There are bigger issues in Halo 4 than sprint. Instant respawn, hitscan weapons vs projectile weapons, over reliance on long range weapons, and among other issues.

14

> That’s the thing – on small maps, sprint doesn’t have to be useful. The main point of this system is to keep sprint for players who like it, but change it in such a way that you can play just as well without it. If sprint’s main purpose is utility and getting yourself to the fight faster, you simply wouldn’t need to use it on smaller maps when the fight is right around the corner (in fact, it may be detrimental to). And if you read the post a bit more carefully, I wrote that it would take 4 seconds to reach max speed, not 6-7.

Well, either way.

We want to put in a feature that’s not useful? If sprint is made less useful by decreasing the size of the maps then it’s not a feature that needs implementation. And as has been said, increased basic movement speed not only “fixes” the “problems” that sprint tries to fix, but it does so without adding any problems at all.

> The reason to keep sprint is because some people have grown accustomed to it. They may not be as numerous as the individuals against it, but in my experience, its better to find a happy medium then to outright ignore one party. For the people who really hate sprint, the individuals who truly believe the multiplayer would not salvageable with sprint included, we could just have a dedicated playlist (“Classic Slayer” or something similar) without it.

If the reason is that some people are accustomed to it, then nothing ever would be removed. Because someone somewhere would be accustomed to the thng potentially removed. Neither can we even consider not removing a feature simply because someone is accustomed to it. If the feature is not good for gameplay it’s not a sensible thing to keep.

You know what’s dangerous with catering to everyone to try to make them happy? A feature bloated game that has no consistency. Creating to many version and game settings that the whole game has no true identity and the population becomes spread thin over the whole game.

As for having sprint useful in Campaign, Firefight, SpOps and BTB maps. That’s all down to the level design and the encounters. Having played Halo 4 with sprint in campaign and then venturing back to previous games like Halo 1 and Halo 2, I never felt the need for Sprint because the campaign was designed in a maneer that didn’t require sprint. While the Halo 4 campaign was designed with sprint in mind.

BTB maps are mostly also made for vehicular combat. While other BTB maps with no vehicle combat is generally slightly smaller.

Heck, even Tombstone in Halo 1 and 2 functioned good without sprint simply because it was a big open space with some tight small corridors for indoor combat.

And as I’ve said, and will again. Sprint fixes nothing increased basic movement speed can’t fix.

15

Sounds good. Better add differences in what a person looks like in 3rd person when at different speeds. That way players can eventually learn to compensate for aiming.

16

> We want to put in a feature that’s not useful? If sprint is made less useful by decreasing the size of the maps then it’s not a feature that needs implementation.

I never said that map size should be decreased, nor did I say that sprint wouldn’t be useful. Its use would simply be more situational.

Let’s say you’re playing a match on Simplex. In a very open map like this one, you’re going to be frequently engaged in firefights. In Halo 4, its hard to have much room to breathe with players sprinting everywhere. Should sprint undergo the changes I described in the OP, this problem would be somewhat alleviated. A player would be better off not lowering their defenses to sprint because of the frequency of action on such a map.

Now let’s say you’re playing a match on Blood Gulch. All of your base’s vehicles are gone. This is the kind of situation I think sprint should exist for – a pure boost in mobility while outside of combat. If it’s not detrimental to the gameplay scenario in the above paragraph, then the issues surrounding it would essentially be solved.

> As has been said, increased basic movement speed not only “fixes” the “problems” that sprint tries to fix, but it does so without adding any problems at all.

I have stated numerous times that I believe movement speed should be increased as well. That being said, I see no reason why sprint can’t also be available if it undergoes changes and the gap between default and sprint speed is closed a bit.

> If the reason is that some people are accustomed to it, then nothing ever would be removed. Because someone somewhere would be accustomed to the thng potentially removed. Neither can we even consider not removing a feature simply because someone is accustomed to it. If the feature is not good for gameplay it’s not a sensible thing to keep.

In a lot of instances I feel that outright removal is inferior to improvement – especially if improvement is possible. The feature may not be good for gameplay in its present state, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t become something good in the future.

> You know what’s dangerous with catering to everyone to try to make them happy? A feature bloated game that has no consistency. Creating to many version and game settings that the whole game has no true identity and the population becomes spread thin over the whole game.

Better to have the population spread thin then to have next to no population at all (see: Halo 4). But yeah, I agree with you. Not sure where I suggested giving the game no consistency, though.

> As for having sprint useful in Campaign, Firefight, SpOps and BTB maps. That’s all down to the level design and the encounters. Having played Halo 4 with sprint in campaign and then venturing back to previous games like Halo 1 and Halo 2, I never felt the need for Sprint because the campaign was designed in a maneer that didn’t require sprint. While the Halo 4 campaign was designed with sprint in mind.
>
> BTB maps are mostly also made for vehicular combat. While other BTB maps with no vehicle combat is generally slightly smaller.
>
> Heck, even Tombstone in Halo 1 and 2 functioned good without sprint simply because it was a big open space with some tight small corridors for indoor combat.

You’re absolutely right, level design is important, and I’m absolutely not disputing that Halo 1 and 2 were great. However, I’m not really sure what you’re getting at with this portion of your post. I never said that the game couldn’t function without sprint. I’m just giving reasons as to why it could.

> And as I’ve said, and will again. Sprint fixes nothing increased basic movement speed can’t fix.

Why can’t we should have both? Increased movement speed while retaining sprint will put the emphasis back on default movement, at the same time keeping sprint for individuals who favor the added mobility.

17

> Let’s say you’re playing a match on Simplex. In a very open map like this one, you’re going to be frequently engaged in firefights. In Halo 4, its hard to have much room to breathe with players sprinting everywhere. Should sprint undergo the changes I described in the OP, this problem would be somewhat alleviated. A player would be better off not lowering their defenses to sprint because of the frequency of action on such a map.
>
> Now let’s say you’re playing a match on Blood Gulch. All of your base’s vehicles are gone. This is the kind of situation I think sprint should exist for – a pure boost in mobility while outside of combat. If it’s not detrimental to the gameplay scenario in the above paragraph, then the issues surrounding it would essentially be solved.

That’s a very creative solution; I applaud you for that. However, in previous Halo games, large open spaces weren’t a problem because the maps were designed around a lack of sprint. Blood Gulch had teleporters at each base. Valhalla had man cannons at each base. Rat’s Nest had several short paths from one base to the other that were unavailable to vehicles, but you risked getting ambushed in the close quarters.

> In a lot of instances I feel that outright removal is inferior to improvement – especially if improvement is possible. The feature may not be good for gameplay in its present state, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t become something good in the future.

If you can improve a mechanic or feature to make the game more fun with it than without it, then I’d agree. But I can’t see that happening with sprint–there’s nothing that sprint accomplishes that map design can’t accomplish without hindering the gameplay like sprint does. A game’s fun-ness is above all, I believe, because anyone will adapt to anything as long as it is fun.

18

> If you can improve a mechanic or feature to make the game more fun with it than without it, then I’d agree. But I can’t see that happening with sprint–there’s nothing that sprint accomplishes that map design can’t accomplish without hindering the gameplay like sprint does. A game’s fun-ness is above all, I believe, because anyone will adapt to anything as long as it is fun.

Personally, I like sprint, I’ll admit it. Could the game work without sprint? Yes. Can level design make sprint unnecessary? Yes.

The thought I’ve put into sprint is because I want it to work. I want 343 to overcome the hurdles that are disapproving fans and make their additions to the franchise worthwhile.

It would be easy to remove it outright, and for many people this would be ideal. But I think sprint could work well if its done right – with appropriate alterations and better map design. While this is a separate discussion altogether, one thing I’d like to see 343 attempt with Halo 4’s successor is combat with up to 16 players per team. Sprint would lend itself especially well to such a venture.

19

> > If you can improve a mechanic or feature to make the game more fun with it than without it, then I’d agree. But I can’t see that happening with sprint–there’s nothing that sprint accomplishes that map design can’t accomplish without hindering the gameplay like sprint does. A game’s fun-ness is above all, I believe, because anyone will adapt to anything as long as it is fun.
>
> Personally, I like sprint, I’ll admit it. Could the game work without sprint? Yes. Can level design make sprint unnecessary? Yes.
>
> The thought I’ve put into sprint is because I want it to work. I want 343 to overcome the hurdles that are disapproving fans and make their additions to the franchise worthwhile.
>
> It would be easy to remove it outright, and for many people this would be ideal. But I think sprint could work well if its done right – with appropriate alterations and better map design. While this is a separate discussion altogether, one thing I’d like to see 343 attempt with Halo 4’s successor is combat with up to 16 players per team. Sprint would lend itself especially well to such a venture.

One of the big disappointments of halo 4, was that it was so generic. Sprint was one of its causes.

20

> Personally, I like sprint, I’ll admit it. Could the game work without sprint? Yes. Can level design make sprint unnecessary? Yes.
>
> The thought I’ve put into sprint is because I want it to work. I want 343 to overcome the hurdles that are disapproving fans and make their additions to the franchise worthwhile.

So then, the core differences in our opinions are not what works best, but rather individual gameplay preferences. I really do think it’s important to note that so that we disagree on facts and theories, not opinions.

Based on your previous argument for sprint (that it is somewhat of a hindrance on smaller maps, but can be beneficial on large maps), what if it was only enabled on large maps? This would make sure it is not used at all on smaller maps, but would allow it to be used on larger maps, which is what you want. The drawback, of course, would be a noticeable disconnect between playstyles. I’m sure players would come out of Big Team Battle into Team Slayer and be somewhat disoriented when they attempt to sprint and fail.

> One of the big disappointments of halo 4, was that it was so generic. Sprint was one of its causes.

I don’t think it’s the mechanics themselves that make a game feel generic, but rather their implementations.

In my opinion, Halo had a gameplay that didn’t really need sprint because it already played so well without it. The gameplay doesn’t depend on sprint to be fun–it’s not a “pillar” of the gameplay, unlike grenades or melee, so if it was removed, the noticeable difference in gameplay is minimal.

On the other hand, sprint is a main component of CoD’s gameplay and complements and enhances the experience. If you removed sprint, the game would be noticeably less fun and wouldn’t feel as right.