I get them being angry at Cortana. It’s a good motivation for villains and I am glad 343 clarified this since they didn’t do this in Halo Wars 2. An anti covenant faction on a anti human crusade is odd.
But, it’s pretty hypocritical to want revenge on humanity for having created Cortana.
Firstly humanity was also conquered brutally by Cortana with Sydney destroyed and the EMP damage. This wasn’t some plot to take the Mantle for humanity. She was not on humanities side and it would take Lizard men levels of conspiracy to argue otherwise. Why else would the Infinity and UNSC be fighting her? Do they decide to make common cause? No, instead they cynically try to attack the people who freed the Galaxy from her by destroying the Infinity. That’s sick and twisted. If they actually cared about Doisac and their own people they wouldn’t have done that. Plus, if they had mistimed that before the Weapon was deployed they would have stopped the only chance of beating Cortana.
Secondly the Brutes committed monstrous war crimes under the Covenant. They burnt hundreds of worlds, exterminated innocent men, women and children by the billion. Remember Reach? Atriox was one of those killers and he is not exonerated of that because he hated the Elites talking down to him. Well humanity did the Noble thing and turned the other cheek to such atrocities. In Halo 4 they could easily have destroyed Doisac when those aliens were on the brink of famine and couldn’t even maintain their own ships. But one Brute world gets destroyed and now they’re crying out for vengeance? They are not the victims here.
Finally, the Banished want to use a Halo ring and have become pawns of the Endless. Which means they’re prepared to kill all other brutes in the galaxy not part of the Banished. I mean those elites with him must be the worst traitors ever since they’re totally okay destroying Sanghelios. So what, the Brutes have been wronged so they’re going to burn the galaxy? Also Atriox loses all interest in revenge on Cortana and instead is all “my precious” with the Silent Auditorium.
As terrible as the Brutes are, nobody deserves to have their homeworld ripped apart. I didn’t feel sorry for them but I was horrified at what Cortana had done.
Oh yeah it is a shock. Way beyond anything she does in Halo 5. I am pretty sure Atriox does not even control Doisac and doesn’t speak for all Brutes. Given that the Brutes couldn’t even feed themselves post Covenant I actually would have said most of them would have probably said fine to Cortana like the Grunts did. She only does it to spite Atriox. Which is insane Logic Plague induced madness.
But that’s established as their motive for going after humanity and wanting the Halo. Which just isn’t sympathetic and makes them even more twisted. It’s their reaction to that which is so off.
Frankly Iam surprised the writers haven’t done something like Cerberus in Mass Effect as an extreme (contrast to our heroes) human reaction to the endless attacks and massacres being done by the Xenos.
When they lash out against a third party that had precisely nothing to do with the actual culprit? To the point of murdering the people who actually tried to bring the culprit to justice.
Yeah, it’s not sympathetic at all. The Brutes have a horrific amount of human blood on their hands and their reaction speaks volumes about them.
I just think too many people are spinning that as the Banished being suddenly the good guys when actually it just means the Banished are hypocrites.
Plus the whole let the galaxy burn thing with the Halo now that they’ve lost their home. Kind of not very sympathetic. Pretty sure quite a few Brutes, Elites, Grunts and all the rest are going to die as a result of Atriox petty revenge so he’s not exactly making the Galaxy a better place.
I mean the thing about the Banished is they aren’t anti-human. Or at least that’s how Atriox made it seem in HW2. Humans have proved throughout the war that although considered “fragile” can pack a punch. So that anti-human part might not exactly be true, or at least there isn’t anything conclusive on either side of the argument.
Now the point about the Doisac. Yeah, I agree with you, I do feel sorry for the Brutes, although they’ve done many bad things in the Halo universe, especially to humans, losing a homeworld isn’t an easy pill to swallow. I mean although there was likely heavy infighting on the planet as Brute nature would kick in, I think Cortana definitely overstepped a couple lines, another one blowing up the Spartan-IV training station Laconia, but that’s a different story entirely.
Surely they have to be anti human now though? There’s far too much anti human rhetoric and speech from them in the game at all levels. Plus the destruction of Doisac is framed as Cortana painting a target on humanities back. If they didn’t have a grudge then why attack Infinity and be all “Destroy Humans”. I just think they have to have moved away from that aspect of their backstory. I am not even sure why any Elite is fighting with the Banished, let alone the humans given what they’ve done and what they’re about.
If Sanghelios or Balaho got blown up you’d get a reaction from me. But every Brute we see before and after is just horrible. You’ve not been given very much reason to be sympathetic towards the Brutes, compared to say, the Krogan from Mass Effect. I was more like, don’t burn the city down Khaleesi than overly concerned about the Brutes.
It’s not a good thing and it is very much a mistake and depicted as such on Cortanas part. But I felt more like this is a problem because he’s going to want blood rather than tearing up over the planet being blown up.
It’s a genocide and destruction of their homeworld. You can hem and haw, but it’s still indiscriminate murder. Even then, there were Brutes like Lydus willing to come to the bargaining table as well as groups like the Keepers of the One Freedom allowing humans converts.
I am not saying it isn’t a genocide. In fact the sympathy the Chief and the Weapon have for this is a noble and heroic thing they have compared to the Banished; even though these are their enemies.
Iam saying I as the player have zero reason to care and more importantly it does not make the Banished or Atriox good guys. It is hypocritical for them to want to destroy humanity because of something Cortana did after what they have done.
Seriously every Banished dosier spells that these are almost entirely War Criminals who started long before Doisac was destroyed. Sadistic killers, torturers and mass murderers to a man. These are not nice people who just want their home back.
The good (ish in case of the Keepers BTW since they’re okay firing the Halo to burn all the unbelievers) are not put in the game. If they’re aren’t showing or even telling in the story that there are good brutes then the depiction is pretty clear cut. They’re just monsters and you shouldn’t dwell too much on fighting them. It’s a very clear cut conflict with an obvious bad guy.
Why should I sympathise with the Brutes after they destroyed Reach along with countless human worlds and are saying they are going to fire the Halo ring to burn the galaxy because they have nothing to lose? It’s like sympathising with Thanos because everybody on Titan died. Not humanities problem at all.
Also, for a smart Brute, it’s pretty stupid to gamble that Cortana is bluffing and getting your homeworld destroyed. Especially when you have zero chance of winning that fight and had to piggy back the efforts of others to have any say in the matter. So Atriox is really just looking for somebody to blame when it’s on him for misreading the situation. Earth and Sanghelios obviously played Cortana whilst continuing to fight. He didn’t because he was too proud to play the long game and was all “The Banished Forever.” Well, they got what they wanted.
Well I wouldn’t say Earth got off the hook, well at least not entirely. It came with a cost. Sydney iirc got entirely wiped out because there were UNSC forces gathered there, considering it was also where HIGHCOM Facility Bravo-6 was located, and they were ready to attack the Guardian, and it looked like it did damage to the surface (well at least that’s what was implied in Halo Infinite). Unless they were talking about the H5 ending cutscene where it was using it’s pulse to disable electronics, which is entirely different
It’s a reference to a short story where ONI flee Sydney. A frigate tried to engage a Guardian and gets EMP. It then crashes and the explosion destroys Sydney.
I’m aware of Rossbach’s World, but it is not explicitly confirmed that the Frigate’s engine’s exploded. Beside in Infinite, the damage looked like it came from the Guardian itself
True, but then you’re going into why Cortana “only” blew up a human city for defiance but then destroyed Doisac for the same reason.
I mean just as an aside. If 343 weren’t clearly trying to handwave Halo 5, if we are talking about the consequences of killing Cortana, the Warden and the other Created would probably go on a rampage to kill the Organics. So probably not the best idea from the Brute.
When I saw Doisac get dusted, I felt terrible for the Jiralhanae. They did not deserve that at all.
Yes, the Brutes are violent and yes they can be cruel, but genocide is genocide and it is wrong. I dare say anyone who tries to justify or defend Cortana’s decision to dust Doisac because “Brutes are mean” should look at the Sangheili; the species that were the tip of the spear in the Covenant for generations, the species that subjugated numerous world’s through bloody conquest, the species that commanded the fleets that glassed countless human worlds and killed over 28 billion humans over 27 years.
The Brutes are not innocent. They have done bad things, but the blood on their hands pales to the oceans of blood created by the Sangheili. Even then, you don’t commit genocide.
When I saw Doisac get destroyed, my sympathy for Atriox and the Brutes just grew. I have no clue what Atriox is up to, but I’m sure he has good reasons.
I honestly believe the “destroy all humans” rhetoric is far beyond the destruction of Dosiac. Atriox himself tells Cortana her maker beat her. I believe the destroy all humans is brainwashing from the harbinger.
At first they destroy infinity because it is controlling the ring and uncovering it’s secrets. It seems atriox is the one that convinces Escherum that there is something on the ring that would be at their disposal for Galaxy wide domination. The only thing in their way is humanity who conveniently are the reclaimers of the mantle according to the forerunners.
The banished believe the forerunner to be liars, a stark contrast from the covenant. It seems the harbinger and banished believe humanity to be a barrier for their ascendance to domination as they were hand picked by the life workers. The harbinger even eludes to humans being the new forerunners. Humans are regarded as manipulative and dishonest which is mentioned in the books.
I honestly don’t even believe Dosiac is the main reason for the banished actions and would gladly destroy the swords of sanghelios as well.
I am not opposed to the extermination of inherently evil and threatening species, e.g. The Flood. Brutes don’t strike me as an inherently evil species, though, and with the end of the Covenant do not pose a significant threat to the rest of the galaxy. Destroying their homeworld and a major portion of the population thus seems like overkill to an immoral degree. Many Brutes committed similar or greater wrongs against Humanity during the war, but two wrongs just make double the wrongs, not a right.
Similarly, being victims of an immoral act does not justify the immoral acts of the Banished. As such, I don’t feel bad about killing any number of Banished to stop them from committing further evils.
I mean, Escharum talks about it like it’s a good thing. How it made the Banished stronger. It’s a very survival of the fittest mentality. The Freedom of the “Strong” seems to be what they’re selling. He doesn’t have any empathy for his own people and very much sees this in terms of the cause and the movement.
I wouldn’t say they weren’t a threat. They were very much fighting the Elites post war and a lot of the dossiers talk about the Banished raiding human colonies long before the destruction of Doisac. It’s more that, you have Guardians, you can disable all their guns and ships then laugh at them from space. Killing the planet is excessive…
As an aside, it’s noticeable that when the Chief and the Weapon are discussing Sydney that she initially thinks Cortana just destroyed the Headquarters. So the Weapons darkest take on “how would I compel the UNSC to surrender” is far below what she actually did by destroying the whole city. This shows it’s excessive overkill and out of character.
The same is true of Doisac. The Brutes are starving and most aren’t part of the Banished. Do the deal you did with the Grunts and tell them to kill that Elite lover Atriox and his Banished. Simple. The Brutes are probably one of the easier species here. Instead…overkill. Which is suspicious if her clone can’t comprehend doing it. I don’t think the Chiefs that bad an influence.