Spoiler: 343 Guilty Spark

As of yesterday afternoon, I finished reading Halo: Primordium. Overall, I greatly enjoyed the book and found it interesting to read. However, my only issues with it were in regards to the identity of 343 Guilty Spark, and the intercutting interrogation scenes with ONI. I will explain why:

No where in any of the video games or other material before Primordium was it ever suggested that monitors, especially 343 GS, were Composed humans. In fact, the Composer was something that was only introduced/invented in the Forerunner trilogy and then shown in Halo 4. Before that, nothing. In every scene in Halo CE, 2, and 3, Spark shows no evidence of having been a human, of having a past life that he ends up remembering in great detail when the humans interrogate him in Primordium. Sure, some people in retrospect could interpret his line about his “creators” (which he says in CE) being explained as the Iso-Didact’s use of the Composer on him giving him his new identity. Or, it could be seen as how it was originally meant to be seen: As the Forerunners having created these AI robots, not using real humans.

In addition, Primordium, which is written from the fist-person perspective of Chakas, in no way sounds like Spark. I cannot even imagine his voice speaking any of it (though I hear that the audio book is narrated by Spark’s VA, correct?). You could argue that his mannerisms and language evolve after he’s Composed into Spark, but I don’t find that to be a good enough explanation. The gap between Chakas and Spark is so vast that I cannot make myself accept it. Call me stubborn, but this is my genuine reaction. No bias involved. I did love Primordium. It’s just easier to enjoy when I view it as an original story having nothing to do with the Halo universe. It could stand on its own really well, otherwise it conflicts with information from the original games.

Greg Bear made a great story (and I am about to start Silentium), it’s just that my issue lies with 343i wanting to tie everything into the post-Bungie games, ignoring what was explicitly stated and shown in the original games, not caring if not everything makes sense when you pull in the entire saga of video games and pre-343i novels. The Forerunner books work well when you view them as either a) a standalone series or b) tying only into the 343i era. And, as a result, the original Halo games end up working great as their own standalone trilogy, due to how much conflicting information 343i and the authors they’ve used created. Honestly, with nearly every single franchise out there that I enjoy, my biggest complaint is whenever new information is added retroactively that had no proof of existence before. It may work when trying to explain what is going on in the new iterations, but becomes clunky when you try to find how it connects to what came before. Like it or not, but the original movies, games, etc. of a franchise are just as important and valid as the new stuff, regardless of whether a new company took over or not. I would have been very happy to have Chakas not be turned into Spark, as throughout Primordium it’s shown that he really is an important character to the Forerunner story; he didn’t need to be transformed into an already-known character to be important. It then just ends up being fan-service, and not really necessary.

And about Spark’s interrogation: Obviously it’s suggesting that Spark somehow survived the destruction of Halo instalation 04B. I have a hard time believing that, that something that small could survive such a catastrophic event. And then it’s oh so convenient that he is made to tell his life’s story. And how these humans know about other Halos. And again making ONI seem like an evil shadow group instead of a morally grey organization that is as important to the war effort as the UNSC is (the ONI individual did come off as rather a -Yoink!-, IMO).

So those are really my only issues with Primordium, all involving 343 Guilty Spark.

What did the rest of you think about these revelations?

Chakas had most of his memories erased, his mind totally indoctrinated into the role of a monitor and his consciousness merged with soething else.The 343 Guilty Spark we see in the games is basically the combination of two minds into one unique mind separate from Chakas.
I can’t remember where it is said but Chakas’ mind is eventually freed and he proceeds to take over an ONI ship called the Rubicon in search of the Librarian.Haven’t read Primordium myself so I don’t know if that happens in it.Could be stated in Cryptum.
Guilty Spark didn’t really survive the Halo explosion.His metal casing was totally shattered.He was a fragment of himself.The Halo didn’t instantly explode either.It was a series of catastrophic failures caused by the Halo trying to fire.Spark could have been propelled into space.

Monitors weren’t stated to be composed humans but that also weren’t stated to have been ancilla’s either.Also, didn’t the Ur-Didact compose Chakas?

> 2535423132749273;2:
> Chakas had most of his memories erased, his mind totally indoctrinated into the role of a monitor and his consciousness merged with soething else.The 343 Guilty Spark we see in the games is basically the combination of two minds into one unique mind separate from Chakas.
> I can’t remember where it is said but Chakas’ mind is eventually freed and he proceeds to take over an ONI ship called the Rubicon in search of the Librarian.Haven’t read Primordium myself so I don’t know if that happens in it.Could be stated in Cryptum.
> Guilty Spark didn’t really survive the Halo explosion.His metal casing was totally shattered.He was a fragment of himself.The Halo didn’t instantly explode either.It was a series of catastrophic failures caused by the Halo trying to fire.Spark could have been propelled into space.
>
> Monitors weren’t stated to be composed humans but that also weren’t stated to have been ancilla’s either.Also, didn’t the Ur-Didact compose Chakas?

Problem is, there is no evidence of Chakas’ personality/mind in Spark, so that’s where my main critique stems from.

It seems that that does happen at the end of Primordium, but no details are given. The conversation between the human characters shows that Spark is taking over the ship and using it to find “her”, so, yeah, definitely the Librarian.

I still just call Spark an AI because that’s the closest thing I can think of explaining Spark in the first place. “Ancilla” is just the Forerunner term for AI, and was used in Cryptum and Primordium to describe the monitors, including Mendecant Bias. I believe it was the Iso-Didact because, when he appears at the end, it’s obviously stated that the Didact he sees used to be Bornstellar, the Manipular. He just keeps referring him as “the Didact”. Guess I’ll find out in Silentium where the Ur-Didact is, and what happened to Iso-Didact.

Speaking of Bias…he was described as being two meters in diameter, meaning he’d be a 6-foot large Monitor. Is he the only known Monitor to be that large? Spark and the others seem to be more the size of a basketball (or a bit larger).

I think I’ve seen somewhere that the personality shift in spark/chakas is from the extremely long isolation on installation 04.(in other words he went crazy/rampant).

> 2533274827767375;4:
> I think I’ve seen somewhere that the personality shift in spark/chakas is from the extremely long isolation on installation 04.(in other words he went crazy/rampant).

That I believe, just not the “Spark used to be a human being” part. There is not enough direct evidence. We are just told this by 343i/Greg Bear and expected to accept it as truth. Again, an example of retroactive information.

“As of yesterday afternoon, I finished reading Halo: Primordium. Overall, I greatly enjoyed the book and found it interesting to read. However, my only issues with it were in regards to the identity of 343 Guilty Spark, and the intercutting interrogation scenes with ONI. I will explain why:No where in any of the video games or other material before Primordium was it ever suggested that monitors, especially 343 GS, were Composed humans.”

— And it still isn’t. We have no solid reason at this moment to believe that any other monitors apart from 343 Guilty Spark were created from composed humans. Also, take note of this quote of his in Combat Evolved Anniversary: “I am experiencing such a mixture of anticipation and dread. All preparations are complete for my installation. In accordance with the final dictum of the Ecumene Council, I have released myself of all remaining connections to my former station. This was not difficult. What was could never be again. We had seen to that quite thoroughly.”

“In fact, the Composer was something that was only introduced/invented in the Forerunner trilogy and then shown in Halo 4. Before that, nothing. In every scene in Halo CE, 2, and 3, Spark shows no evidence of having been a human, of having a past life that he ends up remembering in great detail when the humans interrogate him in Primordium.”

— Spark in Combat Evolved: "You can’t imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all our lost time-human history, is it?. Oh, how I will enjoy every moment of it’s categorization.

“Sure, some people in retrospect could interpret his line about his “creators” (which he says in CE) being explained as the Iso-Didact’s use of the Composer on him giving him his new identity. Or, it could be seen as how it was originally meant to be seen: As the Forerunners having created these AI robots, not using real humans. In addition, Primordium, which is written from the fist-person perspective of Chakas, in no way sounds like Spark. I cannot even imagine his voice speaking any of it (though I hear that the audio book is narrated by Spark’s VA, correct?). You could argue that his mannerisms and language evolve after he’s Composed into Spark, but I don’t find that to be a good enough explanation.”

— Why not? 343 Guilty Spark isn’t just Chakas. He is an ancilla created principally from the mind of Chakas, but also from the minds of numerous other humans that were present at Charum Hakkor when it fell.

“The gap between Chakas and Spark is so vast that I cannot make myself accept it. Call me stubborn, but this is my genuine reaction. No bias involved.”

— A gap of about 100,005 years, to be precise, if you’re talking about Spark when we first meet him in Combat Evolved.

“I did love Primordium. It’s just easier to enjoy when I view it as an original story having nothing to do with the Halo universe. It could stand on its own really well, otherwise it conflicts with information from the original games.”

— What does it conflict with?

“Greg Bear made a great story (and I am about to start Silentium), it’s just that my issue lies with 343i wanting to tie everything into the post-Bungie games, ignoring what was explicitly stated and shown in the original games, not caring if not everything makes sense when you pull in the entire saga of video games and pre-343i novels.”

— Could you give some examples of what you are claiming. If there is one thing Greg Bear’s novels did excellently, it is smoothing over all of Bungie’s seeming contradictions and making everything fit together without retconning anything.

“The Forerunner books work well when you view them as either a) a standalone series or b) tying only into the 343i era. And, as a result, the original Halo games end up working great as their own standalone trilogy, due to how much conflicting information 343i and the authors they’ve used created.”

— Conflicting information… such as?

“Honestly, with nearly every single franchise out there that I enjoy, my biggest complaint is whenever new information is added retroactively that had no proof of existence before. It may work when trying to explain what is going on in the new iterations, but becomes clunky when you try to find how it connects to what came before. Like it or not, but the original movies, games, etc. of a franchise are just as important and valid as the new stuff, regardless of whether a new company took over or not. I would have been very happy to have Chakas not be turned into Spark, as throughout Primordium it’s shown that he really is an important character to the Forerunner story; he didn’t need to be transformed into an already-known character to be important. It then just ends up being fan-service, and not really necessary.”

— Just wait until you read Silentium. You’ll see the rational behind the decision.

“And about Spark’s interrogation: Obviously it’s suggesting that Spark somehow survived the destruction of Halo instalation 04B. I have a hard time believing that, that something that small could survive such a catastrophic event.”

— Why? If a skyscraper collapsed would you be surprised that any ants, spiders, or houseflies inside it survived? Of course not.

“And again making ONI seem like an evil shadow group instead of a morally grey organization that is as important to the war effort as the UNSC is (the ONI individual did come off as rather a -Yoink!-, IMO).”

— ONI is part of the UNSC.

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> > 2535423132749273;2:
> > I still just call Spark an AI because that’s the closest thing I can think of explaining Spark in the first place. “Ancilla” is just the Forerunner term for AI, and was used in Cryptum and Primordium to describe the monitors, including Mendecant Bias.

We don’t know that all Forerunner Ancilla weren’t composed to begin with, be it Human or Forerunner or other. And the only one of the UNSC AI there were labeled ‘Ancilla’ was Cortana, who was created from a human brain. Different process, but similar to composing.

If they don’t act the same, it’s because they’re not the same. 343 Guilty Spark is like a split personality born from Chakas’ mind being locked up as part of the compartmentalization process. Everything about who he was was lost to him and all that remained was his duty to protect Installation 04. Even then, he would begin to experience rampancy after 100,000 years alone and some of his past memories would return and confuse him. This explains the whole “Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it” question.

That’s what the IsoDidact asks Chakas before sending him to Installation 04.

> 2535408102032171;6:
> > — And it still isn’t. We have no solid reason at this moment to believe that any other monitors apart from 343 Guilty Spark were created from composed humans. Also, take note of this quote of his in Combat Evolved Anniversary: “I am experiencing such a mixture of anticipation and dread. All preparations are complete for my installation. In accordance with the final dictum of the Ecumene Council, I have released myself of all remaining connections to my former station. This was not difficult. What was could never be again. We had seen to that quite thoroughly.”
>
>
> So Guilty Spark is somehow special, that’s all that the revelation in Primordium seems to indicate. But plenty of other Monitors have their own quirks, too, so I don’t see how Spark needed to be a Composed Human. Also, my issue with that quote: It’s from the anniversary edition. Meaning there was new information added after-the-fact; information that did not exist originally. That is really my biggest gripe out of all issues I have with the new, post-Bungie material.

> — Spark in Combat Evolved: "You can’t imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all our lost time-human history, is it?. Oh, how I will enjoy every moment of it’s categorization.
> That line does not seem to add much to the debate at hand. Even in only Combat Evolved, the original game, we get a hint that Forerunners were involved with Humans in some way, whether they be creators of Humans, or predecessors to Humans. So this line of Spark’s just shows that lost Human history is an interesting revelation to him. Especially being a Monitor, he’d love to categorize new information.
>
>
> — Why not? 343 Guilty Spark isn’t just Chakas. He is an ancilla created principally from the mind of Chakas, but also from the minds of numerous other humans that were present at Charum Hakkor when it fell.
> In regards to Spark seeming to have multiple personalities (such as when he seems to be having a conversation with someone, when it’s just he and Master Chief), I always viewed it as him being malfunctioning after running the Halo for so long. Old memory fragments from the entire time he’s been running. I don’t see it as there being multiple Human personalities literally in him.
>
> — A gap of about 100,005 years, to be precise, if you’re talking about Spark when we first meet him in Combat Evolved.
> Time-wise, yes, but also in regards to how Spark shows no hint of Chakas’ personality or memories at all.
>
> “I did love Primordium. It’s just easier to enjoy when I view it as an original story having nothing to do with the Halo universe. It could stand on its own really well, otherwise it conflicts with information from the original games.”
>
> — What does it conflict with?
> Spark being a Composed Human, mostly. And other Humans in the modern Halo era knowing about Halos when it comes off as the Pillar of Autumn’s arrival at Installation 04 being the first time any modern Human has seen one. The scientists and ONI individual refer to knowledge they have of other Halos.
>
>
> — Could you give some examples of what you are claiming. If there is one thing Greg Bear’s novels did excellently, it is smoothing over all of Bungie’s seeming contradictions and making everything fit together without retconning anything.
> Every element that is revealed in the Forerunner books and other materials all seem to be far more relevant to the content of Halo 4 and 5: The Didact, the Composer, etc. Yes, we get info on the Halo rings, which are the main focus of the original trilogy, but it really is no new information. I feel that the Spark situation in the books is just fan-service to pull in a familiar character amidst a large cast of unfamiliar, new faces. But beyond that, it makes more sense when viewed from the vantage point of the 343i games. And, honestly, I never saw contradictions with Bungie’s Halo-verse. No, this is not me having “rose-colored glasses”. I played through all three original games and nothing serious jumped out at me as a contradiction. If anything, it feels like many 343i material contradicts with Bungie material (yeah, we can go on about how Halo Reach may not match with Fall of Reach, but that’s something else entirely. Halo was slipping as of that point, IMO.)
>
>
> — Conflicting information… such as?
> Well, my main argument right now is ancient Human = Guilty Spark, and I have plenty of claims above to explain that argument (so I won’t repeat them again). Hell, even Humans being shepherded and placed into “preserves” on the Halos and Ark(s) just feels out of place in the Halo-verse to me. And the Forerunners, though very much mortal, being like gods, being able to “devolve” Humanity on a whim. None of this matches with the overall feel of Halo. Yeah, Halo has a mythic undertone, but nothing to the point of “space magic” and controlling Humanity’s very evolution (the geas/genesong thing? Feels out of place in Halo.).
>
>
> — Just wait until you read Silentium. You’ll see the rational behind the decision.
> I am going to read it, yes.
>
> — Why? If a skyscraper collapsed would you be surprised that any ants, spiders, or houseflies inside it survived? Of course not.
> Actually, yes, I would be surprised. I just feel Spark survived (to some extent) the destruction of 04B just so that Humanity can learn about the past. When, really, the book would have worked fine as just being a novel from the POV of Chakas, and not being Spark literally telling Humans his story. It actually broke the immersion for me.
>
> Actually, yes, I would be surprised. I just feel Spark survived (to some extent) the destruction of 04B just so that Humanity can learn about the past. When, really, the book would have worked fine as just being a novel from the POV of Chakas, and not being Spark literally telling Humans his story. It actually broke the immersion for me.
>
> — ONI is part of the UNSC.
> I know it is. I just keep hearing about the other novels where ONI is acting really evil and doing things that may conflict with what the UNSC wants (disrupting Human-Sangheili peace in Kilo V trilogy, for example. I could imagine a lone, disgruntled group of humans doing that, but ONI as a whole? Guess they need a tighter leash.)

(Sorry, I was having the weirdest time trying to quote within a quote and it just got all messed up… But to be clear, I’m not upset if you have different views than me on this. As long as the discussion is kept civil, that’s all that matters.)

> 2533274793749599;8:
> If they don’t act the same, it’s because they’re not the same. 343 Guilty Spark is like a split personality born from Chakas’ mind being locked up as part of the compartmentalization process. Everything about who he was was lost to him and all that remained was his duty to protect Installation 04. Even then, he would begin to experience rampancy after 100,000 years alone and some of his past memories would return and confuse him. This explains the whole “Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it” question.
>
>
> That’s what the IsoDidact asks Chakas before sending him to Installation 04.

Sometimes I just prefer the simple explanations: Such as, 343 Guilty Spark is nothing more than an AI built by the Forerunners to monitor and protect the Installation, and not the remains of a magically Composed Human. It just muddies the story down and makes things too…“convenient”, if that’s the word?

The question could have very well been asked to the Monitor 343 Guilty Spark, not to a Human who is then turned into a Monitor. Why does this have to be so overly complicated? I feel like 343i is so happy to try to OVER-explain every last detail in the Halo universe, when many things actually work BETTER when left as a mystery for us to use our imaginations about. Am I really the only one here who feels this way?

> 2533274793749599;8:
> If they don’t act the same, it’s because they’re not the same. 343 Guilty Spark is like a split personality born from Chakas’ mind being locked up as part of the compartmentalization process. Everything about who he was was lost to him and all that remained was his duty to protect Installation 04. Even then, he would begin to experience rampancy after 100,000 years alone and some of his past memories would return and confuse him. This explains the whole “Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it” question.
>
>
> That’s what the IsoDidact asks Chakas before sending him to Installation 04.

This part sells me on the idea that Chakas is 343. That was the coolest part to me of the Bears trilogy. Tying into what seemed like blabbering nonsense back in CE.

> 2533274919794518;11:
> > 2533274793749599;8:
> > If they don’t act the same, it’s because they’re not the same. 343 Guilty Spark is like a split personality born from Chakas’ mind being locked up as part of the compartmentalization process. Everything about who he was was lost to him and all that remained was his duty to protect Installation 04. Even then, he would begin to experience rampancy after 100,000 years alone and some of his past memories would return and confuse him. This explains the whole “Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it” question.
> >
> >
> > That’s what the IsoDidact asks Chakas before sending him to Installation 04.
>
>
> This part sells me on the idea that Chakas is 343. That was the coolest part to me of the Bears trilogy. Tying into what seemed like blabbering nonsense back in CE.

But…the quote existed in CE before it existed in the books. Yes, it is of course obvious that he is referring to a conversation he had with someone way back when. But appropriating the quote into a book written years later just gives a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.

> 2533274887950450;12:
> > 2533274919794518;11:
> > > 2533274793749599;8:
> > > If they don’t act the same, it’s because they’re not the same. 343 Guilty Spark is like a split personality born from Chakas’ mind being locked up as part of the compartmentalization process. Everything about who he was was lost to him and all that remained was his duty to protect Installation 04. Even then, he would begin to experience rampancy after 100,000 years alone and some of his past memories would return and confuse him. This explains the whole “Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it” question.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s what the IsoDidact asks Chakas before sending him to Installation 04.
> >
> >
> > This part sells me on the idea that Chakas is 343. That was the coolest part to me of the Bears trilogy. Tying into what seemed like blabbering nonsense back in CE.
>
>
> But…the quote existed in CE before it existed in the books. Yes, it is of course obvious that he is referring to a conversation he had with someone way back when. But appropriating the quote into a book written years later just gives a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.

What’s so bad about that? I think connections like that are pretty neat.

I honestly think that Bungie mapped that out all the way back then. I’m sure it was just vagueries at that time though. As far as prequel revelations go, it is one of the best I think.

Considering CE is pretty much its own Halo and was supposed to be the only Halo game ever made. Thats why lots of CE seems different and detached from the rest of the universe. Playing CE for the first time 15 years ago i always assumed 343 wasn’t just an AI and was something before his mannerisms and the fact he felt human emotions made it seem he was once a living being. I really dont see that much of an issue or difference between 343 being based on Chakas mind and Cortana being based off of a cloned brain of Halsey.

> 2533274887950450;12:
> But…the quote existed in CE before it existed in the books. Yes, it is of course obvious that he is referring to a conversation he had with someone way back when. But appropriating the quote into a book written years later just gives a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.

Sounds to me that you want to leave Halo written in stone, so that when something is said we can’t go back and elaborate on it further. That would make Halo incredibly boring, IMO, if we referenced things and never went back to explore them. I like it when they go back and connect the new with the old because it makes the universe feel bigger and connected. Just recently on Star Trek Online, they went back and connected a Season 3 episode of TNG to a Season 2 episode of Enterprise, while also referencing a Season 5 episode of Voyager. Despite the fact that Enterprise is a newer show than TNG, (and STO is newer than both), they still managed to connect the plots together in a convincing way. It helps makes for a much larger and interesting universe that way.

> 2533274793749599;16:
> > 2533274887950450;12:
> > But…the quote existed in CE before it existed in the books. Yes, it is of course obvious that he is referring to a conversation he had with someone way back when. But appropriating the quote into a book written years later just gives a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.
>
>
> Sounds to me that you want to leave Halo written in stone, so that when something is said we can’t go back and elaborate on it further. That would make Halo incredibly boring, IMO, if we referenced things and never went back to explore them. I like it when they go back and connect the new with the old because it makes the universe feel bigger and connected. Just recently on Star Trek Online, they went back and connected a Season 3 episode of TNG to a Season 2 episode of Enterprise, while also referencing a Season 5 episode of Voyager. Despite the fact that Enterprise is a newer show than TNG, (and STO is newer than both), they still managed to connect the plots together in a convincing way. It helps makes for a much larger and interesting universe that way.

I just have issues with over-explaining, or making the explanation too “out there” and over the top. Why can’t simplicity be viewed as best for certain situations?

“Also, my issue with that quote: It’s from the anniversary edition.”

— Meaning it is an allusion to Spark’s humanity that existed prior to the publication of Halo: Primordium, which is what you were asking for.

“Meaning there was new information added after-the-fact; information that did not exist originally. That is really my biggest gripe out of all issues I have with the new, post-Bungie material.”

— This makes no sense as any sort of criticism. Any time new stories are told and new information is revealed it entails information that did not exist originally…

“Spark being a Composed Human, mostly. And other Humans in the modern Halo era knowing about Halos when it comes off as the Pillar of Autumn’s arrival at Installation 04 being the first time any modern Human has seen one. The scientists and ONI individual refer to knowledge they have of other Halos.”

— How does the revelation of 343 Guilty Spark’s creation via composer conflict with any previously established material? And of course humans know about the Halo rings in the years following the Covenant War. I am seriously confused by what you’re saying here. When the Pillar of Autumn discovered Alpha Halo, that was the first time any human in the modern ere saw one of the rings. The scenes in Primordium happen after the events of Halo 3, though. In the years following the end of the Covenant War, the UNSC even established a presence at Installation 05, Installation 03, and Installation 07.

“Every element that is revealed in the Forerunner books and other materials all seem to be far more relevant to the content of Halo 4 and 5: The Didact, the Composer, etc. Yes, we get info on the Halo rings, which are the main focus of the original trilogy, but it really is no new information.”

— The Forerunner Saga doesn’t really offer any new information on the Halo rings? Sorry, but is that a joke? The political struggle regarding their creation, the reason they support life, the fact that there were once 12 and that Installation 07 is one of those original 12, etc…

“I feel that the Spark situation in the books is just fan-service to pull in a familiar character amidst a large cast of unfamiliar, new faces.”

— Frank O’Connor has also very recently said that there is a planned redemption arc for 343 Guilty Spark.

“But beyond that, it makes more sense when viewed from the vantage point of the 343i games. And, honestly, I never saw contradictions with Bungie’s Halo-verse. No, this is not me having “rose-colored glasses”. I played through all three original games and nothing serious jumped out at me as a contradiction. If anything, it feels like many 343i material contradicts with Bungie material (yeah, we can go on about how Halo Reach may not match with Fall of Reach, but that’s something else entirely. Halo was slipping as of that point, IMO.)”

— In what ways does “343i material” contradict “Bungie material”?

“Hell, even Humans being shepherded and placed into “preserves” on the Halos and Ark(s) just feels out of place in the Halo-verse to me.”

— Looks like you need to check out Halo 3’s terminals again. The Librarian mentions bringing humans to the Ark at one point in them.

“And the Forerunners, though very much mortal, being like gods, being able to “devolve” Humanity on a whim. None of this matches with the overall feel of Halo. Yeah, Halo has a mythic undertone, but nothing to the point of “space magic” and controlling Humanity’s very evolution (the geas/genesong thing? Feels out of place in Halo.”

— What about any of that involves magic?

— A note regarding Spark’s survival: Let’s remember that he literally can fly and is not harmed by raw vaccum. Installation 04B also din’t just explode. It contorted itself into pieces which either crashed into the Ark or floated off into the space around it. We can also see the last remaining piece of Spark’s carapace fall down that shaft in 04B’s control room at the end of Halo 3. Spark doesn’t just disintegrate.

“I know it is. I just keep hearing about the other novels where ONI is acting really evil and doing things that may conflict with what the UNSC wants”

— Like kidnapping kids and turning them into child soldiers?

> 2535408102032171;18:
> — Meaning it is an allusion to Spark’s humanity that existed prior to the publication of Halo: Primordium, which is what you were asking for.
>
> When did I ever ask for information about Spark’s past? Or for him to have previously been Human?
>
>
> — This makes no sense as any sort of criticism. Any time new stories are told and new information is revealed it entails information that did not exist originally…
>
> It really depends on how it’s handled, and what kind of information is being added. Look at Star Wars: The Force Awakens - nothing there alters information from the original films, it’s able to stand on its own but also be a continuation, without changing things already established in the originals. (Granted, now with Disney at the reigns, they have eliminated/retconned the EU materials. But they haven’t impacted the original films. Though I also find some of the changes/additions made in the original films by George Lucas himself to be eye-rollingly ridiculous.)
>
> — How does the revelation of 343 Guilty Spark’s creation via composer conflict with any previously established material? And of course humans know about the Halo rings in the years following the Covenant War. I am seriously confused by what you’re saying here. When the Pillar of Autumn discovered Alpha Halo, that was the first time any human in the modern ere saw one of the rings. The scenes in Primordium happen after the events of Halo 3, though. In the years following the end of the Covenant War, the UNSC even established a presence at Installation 05, Installation 03, and Installation 07.
>
> Since when did Humanity “establish a presence” on other Halo rings? Wouldnt’ have have been something important to know in the video games, the media that most Halo fans are going to have the most immediate access to? Humanity is taking these gigantic strides that people like me, who are very choosy about what books to read, will only learn after-the-fact, when it seems quite -Yoink!- important.
>
>
> — The Forerunner Saga doesn’t really offer any new information on the Halo rings? Sorry, but is that a joke? The political struggle regarding their creation, the reason they support life, the fact that there were once 12 and that Installation 07 is one of those original 12, etc…
>
> To clarify: It doesn’t give any new information that is important to modern Halo. I don’t know if you noticed, but essentially all Forerunners are dead. So their political squabbling has no relevance to the here-and-now in the Halo-verse. It’s nice info to know, but, like several of the Bungie-era novels, does not need to be known to still understand what’s going on in the main-title games themselves. It’s extra info. The Halos kill, that’s what’s truly important, and we already learned that in CE. (But if 343i decides to resurrect more Forerunners, or even Precursors, I am going to be done with this franchise. Leave some mysteries alone, leave things dead that died already.)
>
>
> — Frank O’Connor has also very recently said that there is a planned redemption arc for 343 Guilty Spark.
>
> Is he going to be resurrected? Or be posthumously redeemed?
>
> [. . . .]— What about any of that involves magic?
>
> Well, how does one, even a highly advanced society, “devolve” a race to neanderthals? I see no logical explanation for something like that, or for things like the Composer. Everything else in Halo has a grounded feel, where even if it’s obviously sci-fi, it still can be believed.
>
> — A note regarding Spark’s survival: Let’s remember that he literally can fly and is not harmed by raw vaccum. Installation 04B also din’t just explode. It contorted itself into pieces which either crashed into the Ark or floated off into the space around it. We can also see the last remaining piece of Spark’s carapace fall down that shaft in 04B’s control room at the end of Halo 3. Spark doesn’t just disintegrate.
>
> Makes sense, but from a story standpoint it comes off as too convenient for these Humans to learn the whole story.
>
>
> — Like kidnapping kids and turning them into child soldiers?
>
> My point is, I never heard about ONI being -yoinks- before until the 343i era material.

“When did I ever ask for information about Spark’s past? Or for him to have previously been Human?”

— You said “No where in any of the video games or other material before Primordium was it ever suggested that monitors, especially 343 GS, were Composed humans”.

“It really depends on how it’s handled, and what kind of information is being added. Look at Star Wars: The Force Awakens - nothing there alters information from the original films, it’s able to stand on its own but also be a continuation, without changing things already established in the originals.”

—And 343 Industries has not retconned anything established by Bungie. And did you really just hold up a literal rebooting of a franchise where over 30 years of canon was retconned into nonexistence as an example for how to continue telling stories in a franchise?

“Since when did Humanity “establish a presence” on other Halo rings?”

— Installation 03 was discovered by the Floral Express, a civilian freighter, in August of 2552, and ONI sent teams to the surface of the ring by the end of October that year. Installation 07 Halo was discovered in 2555 and the Zeta Halo Project was subsequently initiated. Installation 05, of course, was discovered in October of 2552, as seen in Halo 2. Lisbon Station was established there following the end of the war.

“Wouldnt’ have have been something important to know in the video games, the media that most Halo fans are going to have the most immediate access to?”

— Captain Lasky tells John about the UNSC presence at 03 and 05 in Halo 4, and then you literally go to Ivanoff Station in the game.

“Humanity is taking these gigantic strides that people like me, who are very choosy about what books to read, will only learn after-the-fact, when it seems quite -Yoink!- important.”

— Okay? Your point? And like I said, the video games have literally presented the UNSC’s presence at a number of Halo installations at the center of the action.

“To clarify: It doesn’t give any new information that is important to modern Halo. I don’t know if you noticed, but essentially all Forerunners are dead.”

— I think you might be using the word “essentially” wrong. We know for a fact that while they both have been reduced to digital essences, both the Didact and one Builder still are very much extant in the galaxy. We know Bornstellar, Chant-to-Green, and a small number of others, mainly Lifeworkers, survived the firing of the Array. It is even possible that the Librarian herself may still be alive, if 343 Guilty Spark is correct.

“(But if 343i decides to resurrect more Forerunners, or even Precursors, I am going to be done with this franchise. Leave some mysteries alone, leave things dead that died already.)”

— When were any Forerunners ever resurrected?

“Is he going to be resurrected? Or be posthumously redeemed?”

— Didn’t you just read Primordium? Spark was never destroyed. He’s still around. Last we saw him, he had taken over the UNSC Rubicon.

“Well, how does one, even a highly advanced society, “devolve” a race to neanderthals?”

— You must not know what neanderthals are. I’ll let you Google that, but put simply, Lifeworkers tampered tampered with the genes of humans and selectively bred them to produce lower intelligences over generations.

“I see no logical explanation for something like that, or for things like the Composer.”

— Composers map the neural patterns of sentient beings and convert that data into a usable form able to inhabit by machine constructs.

“My point is, I never heard about ONI being -yoinks- before until the 343i era material.”

— You mean from fans? How long have you been a part of the community on forums and the like?