I posted this in the community tab, but figured it would be more relevant here. With the new roadmap being released, a lot of people are talking about what was revealed. However, I feel like the SPI-like armor that was hinted at hasn’t been discussed as much as other topics, and as the title says, it looks… off.
First of all, the helmet. It looks nothing like Mirage, I posted an image of Kurt from GoO, and as you can see it’s supposed to be smooth and have 2 “dents” on the sides. Yet in Infinite it has a very sharp angle on it, no dents, and strange circular ears (the vents don’t even match up), It’s clearly a different helmet, and I hope this isn’t Mirage, but just the default helmet much like Cavallino on the Mark VII core. I desperately hope that the classic Mirage helmet is in the Battle Pass, I feel like MCC’s model for the Mirage Helmet was pretty spot on, and would love to see it again or a more accurately depicted SPI helmet that Kurt here is wearing. (The shoulders aren’t accurate either, but I’m sure the one Kurt’s wearing will also appear in the BP too).
However, my biggest issue are the straps that connect to the chest. the 3rd pic is our main man Kurt again and you can see how the straps should look, they come from underneath the “clavicle armor” and extend to circular pads (not sure what to call them), this is done to cover the obvious weakness. Infinite’s doesn’t do this and lacks the pads, making it way more exposed. If this is supposed to be a Mjolnir version of SPI, then why does it look so rudimentary? SPI looks more advanced and protective than this. This might be the copium talking, but I hope this is the WIP and not the final look.
Any thoughts or am I just a crazy lore fan rambling to himself?
Link to images:
https://ibb.co/s56DLDM
https://ibb.co/Kyz5NwM
https://ibb.co/wMWMDQW
I can see why the design looks “off”, but honestly it’s not a bad reinterpretation either.
Much like the fact that not all of the MKVb armors are 100% 1:1 carbon copies of their Halo Reach designs (see the ODST helmet for an example) they’re faithful enough that they don’t go full Halo 4/Halo 5 and unnecessarily contort them to fit into an incompatible art style that doesn’t appreciate their original design.
The “clavicle” “shoulders” might not be there, and the helmet profile might look a bit off, but in all honesty the original (incredibly limited) SPI 2D art can only go so far as it’s able to be rendered in a 3D space. Mirage itself doesn’t really hit the mark either given the limitations of the player model and skeleton, but it’s faithful enough that it checks the boxes for a convincing design.
I think the shadowed silhouette actually looks pretty good personally.
I would agree with you about the whole limited reference issue with SPI. However, they have a reference sheet for it and MCC’s Mirage helmet is pretty decently accurate (the rest of it, not so much). That and I’ve seen some crazy good modelers create fairly accurate models using 1 limited shot of reference, I believe 343’s artists can do the same.
Official SPI artist reference and schematics: https://ibb.co/HDwctkQ
Satchmo III recreating a helmet with a single picture of concept art as reference: https://ibb.co/P9YTX1w
Also, I’d say using ODST is a bad example, everyone I know hates how it lacks a chin now.
Huh, didn’t notice much of a difference at first, but seeing the references side by side I can definitely see the changes. Not too fussed by it myself, but I do hope shoulder pads more similar to the ones SPI is typically depicted with are in the pass. Love the smooth, layered look from Ghosts of Onyx’s cover.
I’m curious as to how they’re going to justify making this into an entire core, customization wise. Going to have to come up with lots of new armor design
I do want to get to this one first, as the helmet itself is a hybrid of Halo 3’s and Halo Reach’s ODST variants.
It doesn’t lack a chin though, the issue is the neck positioning intersecting with the chin of the helmet. It’s a skeleton issue, not a modeling one.
The helmet is the most artistically faithful rendition since Halo Reach’s continuation of the Halo 3 style.
The reference was more so comparing the actual model used in Infinite as a near parallel to the source material than Halo 4’s cartoony approach or the bulbous deep fried monstrosity that was prominent in Halo 5.
I’ll do a side by side comparison when I get home, but Mirage is visibly chunkier (and the helmet is far more pronounced and wider) than the sleeker SPI in the reference sheet. Which by the way looks far sleeker than the Ghosts of Onyx rendition of the armor which looks like a rather immobile diving suit. So even the source material isn’t perfect.
Mirage isn’t nearly a perfect rendition of SPI, but it’s close enough that it works.
As for the fan render, it might be possible to do so but even the artist has to utilize some sort of artistic liberty to design the back of the helmet that doesn’t exist, even then it’s clear that the helmet in the concept art isn’t 1:1 represented in the 3D render. There are some clear differences despite the clear similarities, and that’s ultimately the important part.
Wernissage does a wonderful comparison of several Halo helmets for some references. Not all the helmets are functionally identical, and opt for subtle differences over radical changes, yet some change things so radically that they do illicit negative responses.
I think the armor itself looks fine. We knew it was SPI armor from a glance. That’s why people liked the Banshed, you can tell what everything is at a glance with the silhouette (covenant) but the detail does the rest of the work (banished.) and the same is here.
SPI was always somewhat rudimentary in comparison to mjolnir. But to be lore accurate, the Halo Encyclopedia states as the last sentence of SPI armor “Although SPI lacked a number of features in its earliest years, such as energy shielding, the most contemporary designs have been folded into the mjolnir stable and are now at parity with all other armor sets in production.” So the upcoming armor is probably the SPI armor redesigned for the mjolnir gen 3 specs, just like Mk. V[B] (though required alot more work) Heck Gen 3 armor all require AI slots, energy shielding, equipment interface. All that takes alot of power. Even Rakshasa which is the most bare-bones Spartan armor we have seen yet, is somehow capable of all these things (WHERE ARE THE SHIELD EMITTERS AND POWER SUPPLY?!?!?!), I imagine retrofitting the SPI armor for that much would require alot of retooling.
Speaking of the encyclopedia, even the artwork they have of SPI is inconsistent. The visor being the biggest difference. On the same page we have a more curved visor, but in the other we have more angular shape. In the season 3 image, the circles on the side are the biggest difference but it looks like they moved them from where the scalp is down to the ears. Definitely different, but still clearly SPI.
Personally I’m not as concerned about the aesthetic, I’m mostly just annoyed that they are “bastardizing” Mjolnir.
Mjolnir MkIV-VII is some SERIOUS SERIOUS armor. SPI isn’t anywhere near the level of protection, and has no energy shields. It’s cool for them to include this kind of content, but I wish they could stick closer to the lore.
Frankly, with the amount of lore, they should just make an RPG someday lol
In a way, I agree, but I think it helps to keep in mind that Halo Infinite’s multiplayer, in which we use these armors, is lorewise just a combat simulation used to keep spartans sharp and combat-ready. So in theory, spartans that would wear SPI on the actual battlefield could wear powered-up versions of the SPI armor for the sake of fairness in these combat simulations. That’s also how I viewed the Rakshasa core, which shows no signs of having fusion cores or anything else to really power the armor.
I think you’re right about the logic, but I think that the flaw is that combat simulation lore is just not that interesting. I would love to see a battlefield style multiplayer mode based in the canon.
If this was the case, then there’s a whole handful-and-a-half of armor configs that should be doing waaaayyyy more (or faaaarrr less) than just looking pretty and shielding the Spartan.
Sometimes it’s just better to suspend your disbelief for the sake of the game and just look cool.
I agree. I was hoping that with the Lone Wolves narrative event, they would make the combat simulation lore more interesting, but unfortunately, they just gave us some very basic cutscenes that didn’t do much to elevate the stories of our spartans. I hope in the future, narrative events will actually have a story in which our spartans play a role.
I dunno man, looking at 3, ODST, Reach, and Infinite’s versions of ODST, Infinite’s has the weakest-looking chin. It sinks too deeply into the visor and doesn’t stick out as much.
https://ibb.co/0CRKRvs
Also with SPI, I will say it’s the most constantly inconsistent armor set I’ve seen. Having a lot of different takes on it. I would have hoped 343 would have designed an SPI core that looks like Ghost of Onyx’s look or like the reference sheet they made for it. Not a completely new design altogether that looks like neither. At least try to make it look like a mix of both. Again MCC’s Mirage helmet is a good recreation of the helmet that I feel pulls from both pieces of art, and if something like that isn’t in the BP, I WILL be shocked. Like they already got it down in MCC, you have no excuse to not use that helmet to fill in the gaps for the Mirage helmet in Infinite.
Yeah, but here’s the thing… When the Mark V[B] and it’s variants were upgraded to GEN3 standards they kept the same architecture, with a few exceptions like ODST, Commando, and Recon, but that was more cause they used Reach concept art to model the helmets and doesn’t mean they changed how it looked in-universe.
The same should have been done with SPI. I understand it would probably receive SOME design tweaks to support the whole Mjolnir system and so it could fit the rig they use in Infinite. However they should NOT have completely redesigned the helmet and shoulders, the straps and their protection look like a downgrade, which is super weird since it’s supposed to be a Mjolnir upgrade.
The Encyclopedia stating SPI has been “folded into the Mjolnir stable” implies MCC’s Mirage is canon, so they were able to get the helmet to work with Mjolnir’s system without overly redesigning it. Idk why they completely redesigned it now. MCC’s isn’t the best take of SPI (except for the helmet). So I was hoping we would get something better in Infinite, from what we’ve seen so far, it’s less accurate.
I’m also aware the encyclopedia’s SPI isn’t accurate, like you said the helmet is off as well as the gauntlets, they’re going for the look they have in the official reference sheet, but the silver part sticks out too much, it should be sleeker. Like I said with @Trand0 SPI is consistently inconsistent, and you would assume 343 would use the first designs created for it as reference to make a Mjonlor version, rather than a complete redesign.
This “SPI” in Infinite is the Mjolnir version of the actual SPI armor. It makes sense in canon because the encyclopedia officially states it’s been upgraded to Mjolnir standards, so I don’t see the issue.
Fair enough, it is certainly sweet to see it being drawn again, I don’t know if its been in the canon at all since Ghosts of Onyx! Lol I should just be glad they’re doing that and not a transformers based season or something already.
I see what you’re saying, but the bigger issue really is where the neck connects. Previous helmets gave the chin some room to exist, whereas the neck connects almost right where the chin stops.
Again not faulting the design as much as I’m faulting the body structure and build of the Spartan model. The Infinite ODST is far better than the last two iterations we’ve seen in Halo 4 and 5.
I mean outside of MCC’s Mirage interpretation we haven’t seen any official 3D models. It’s been relegated primarily to 2D interpretations and written descriptions.
We have 7+ different iterations of 3D ODST models to compare, 7+ MKVI interactions, multiple instances of MKV just as an example. Each have their own differences and similarities to varyingly minuscule and overt degrees.
To your following points, I’m not trying to suggest that SPI hasn’t had inconsistencies, I’m just suggesting the official pool of comparisons to choose from is rather small. In my opinion, I would rather see the interpretation using this art direction and style than seeing it represented in the Halo 4/5 style any day even if it’s not an exact 1:1 representation, as no kit has ever really been.
I love the inclusion of Mirage in MCC, but it’s way too bulky compared to the source material. I expect some overlap and movement hindrances based on the Ghosts of Onyx look, but it’s got “D2 Titan-itis” going on up top.
It’s ok to both enjoy something and have gripes with it. But I’d rather see the full revealed design in Infinite before I draw any conclusions.
Well, I don’t know what else to say or show regarding the ODST helmet. You can clearly see all the helmets in a vacuum in that image. Even without the necks present, Infinite’s chin is very small. I’d say the issue is the helmet, all the other helmets in Infinite look fine, and even if you thinned out the neck, the chin would still be sunk in. It doesn’t resolve the issue, the chin should have been extruded forward so it doesn’t look so close to the visor. Like all the others before it. I do agree it’s closer to the classic ODST helmets (barring 2) than what we got in 4/5, but comparing Infinite’s design to 4/5 was never my point.
I am aware SPI has never been modeled before MCC, ever since I read GoO, I’ve wanted to see SPI in the games and I’ve waited years and years to get something, and I FINALLY did get something: MCC’s Mirage. As I’ve said before it was disappointing besides the helmet. The chest is too bulky, there’s a gap in the knees and leg armor, the boots look like something belonging to a knight, and the arms look completely off (ironically here, they got the clavicle armor and straps right in MCC). I figured this was due to Halo 3’s aging rigs, so I was hoping it would be more accurate if Infinite got an SPI core. They got the helmet down very well in MCC, so I believed. Even with so little reference, they made a very nice and fairly accurate helmet that everyone liked, it would be crazy for them not to use it again. But so far what I see in Infinite… ain’t it Cheif. Although I figure we’ll get a more accurate helmet and shoulders somewhere in the BP, they probably won’t just give us the iconic stuff right off the bat. It’s really the chest that bothers me if that is the case, we might have to use up a chest attachment slot just to make it look how it’s supposed to when that should be the default. That and it just looks like a downgrade.
We do have different iterations of the same helmets. However, the ODST and Mark VI helmets in-game were fairly similar and almost 1:1 with each other, then 343 came into the scene and changed everything, deviating from the original designs is always controversial. Just look at the Mark V in CEA, people hate how it now looks so over-designed (and I particularly hate the big ol’ holes on the chest). Sticking to your source material is what you need to do. I would prefer them to use the designs that came first with SPI and not a whole new thing, cause that new thing is not what I fell in love with. I want the OG, not a redesign, I’m fine with redesigns if we have the originals too. I understand it can’t be exactly be 1:1 cause it’s Mjolnir now, and that’s fine, but the helmet, chest, and shoulders deviate too much from the source (GoO/the schematics).
On a side note, looking up “Halo Infinite SPI” will give you this page on google, so I guess that’s a win. Maybe someone at 343 looking for feedback on Infinite’s SPI or whatever they’ll call it will see this post and hopefully take in the critiques positively. I hope I don’t come off as a whiny fan, I just love S-IIIs and feel like they’re often underrepresented in the universe, so I’m very passionate about it. I like most of the redesigns 343 has made with the 4/5 helmets, they’re pretty great. The overall art direction of Infinite is amazing too! However, I wanna see a faithful take on SPI first, and then 343 can go and make new designs for it with all the armor pieces and helmets. Maybe adding some armor that references other characters who have worn different variants of SPI over the years too.