Spawn Buddy System Returning To Halo?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

This is something that needs to return to Halo, with Halo5.
Buddy Spawning was introduced in Halo Reach’s Invasion mode. The way it worked was that a map would have designated spawning sections for each group (of two or more) of the team. As the offensive team progressed, and unlocked new areas, new spawn areas would be presented while keep the originals in tact. The same happened for the defensive team.

If you died, then you were given a number of options/choices as to where to spawn. If you didn’t choose a location, yourself, before the timer ran out, then the game would spawn you at the point in which you were viewing. The most popular option was to simply spawn on your “Buddy”. If you wanted to do this, then you simply needed to cycle your death cam to your “Buddy” and press the Spawn button.

Now, there were advantages and disadvantages to this “Spawn Buddy System”. The Disadvantage was that your spawn location would become very predictable. Unlike normal spawns, there were limited locations to spawn. At times, this lead to spawn camping. However, if you knew the spawn was being camped, you could easily avoid it and spawn elsewhere. Or you could spawn there and try to take the camper out before he took you out. But like I said, these Spawn areas have advantages and disadvantages to them.

The only other choice was to spawn on your “Buddy”. But you could only do this if he was either alive or not in combat. Being alive a requirement made perfect sense. However, the “In Combat” limitation did not. The player did not even have to be shot at to be classified “In Combat”. The player simply needed to be in proximity of firing enemies to cause this limitation. This meant that if your buddy needed help, then you could not step in to back him up.

Halo Reach certainly wasn’t the first (nor the last) game to implement a “Spawn Buddy System”. But it’s implementation did greatly improve the gameplay. One of the BIGGEST issues with Halo’s Multiplayer are the predictable spawns. And this in large part due to the predetermined spawn locations of a map. These areas are, naturally, called “Spawn Areas”. And they do work. They are just way too easy to predict, locate, and camp. Because of this, I am suggesting 343 Industries return the “Spawn Buddy System” However, in a more useful manner.

The “Spawn Buddy System” should return to Halo (starting with Halo5) with all of the current Spawn systems in tact. However, don’t limit the “Spawn Buddy System” to a certain game-type as it was in Halo Reach. Instead, allow it in all game-types. Allow players to spawn on ANY of their team-mates if said team-mate is in combat or not. This way they can truly work together when they need the help the most. That or steal a team-mate’s kill. lol.

That said, there does need to be limitations on the “Spawn Buddy System”. For example, players can not use the “Spawn Buddy System” with a team-mate that is already in a Objective (KOTH, CTF, Territories, etc) zone; nor if he is already in the enemy’s base. Reach’s Invasion mode allowed “Buddy Spawning” in capture points. I suggest removing this option seeing as how it would abuse the system. I also suggest NOT allowing team-mates to spawn inside of vehicles. The last thing we need is a GaussHog driver (or tank) getting consistent support.

What brought up this idea? Well Halo Reach’s Invasion Mode did, to be honest. I loved it’s spawning feature/options and have been wanting it to make a comeback in normal You see, I’ve been playing Battlefield Hardline (BFHL) at a friend’s house and, though it does have it’s own issues, the spawn system works very well. I don’t like that you can spawn on contested capture points or in vehicles (thus making them even more OP). But the over-all spawn system does indeed work very well.

Now, before some of you start flaming that “That’s Not Halo!” or “Keep You Game Out Of My Game!”, let me make something clear. I am in absolutely no way suggesting that BFHL is better then Halo nor am I suggesting we make Halo BFHL. That would just be silly. I’m, instead, suggesting that Halo’s MP be improved on and this is a great way to do so. Loadouts are not a bad thing, IF they are implemented well. And that took Halo Reach, 4, and then 2A to get that right. In LARGE part due to the developers not listening to the players. The spawn system is simple to fix as well.

The feature can be easily implemented into Forge Mode as well. use the same Spawn Zones/Areas, that have always been used. Just include a “Anti-Buddy” option to the list of a zone’s options menu. Much like a trait zone, Forgers would be able to disable the Buddy System for that zone. Thus, making it easy to prevent group/team camping and stop players from spawning in enemy bases. The added feature to these zones can also be added to capture points like Hills and Territories. Don’t want a Flag Carrier to have a Spawn Buddy? Then disable it in the Flag Stand’s options. Or in the CTF options of the game-type.

As I stated earlier, BFHL’s Spawn system does have it’s own share of problems. But this is due to players being able to spawn anywhere on the map. This can be fixed in Halo5 with anti-spawn zones. But BFHL’s spawn issue is also due to players being flat out dumb and not watching their surroundings.

Anywho, that’s my suggestion and ideas to help improve Halo’s Spawning system. We already know it works. And some minor adjustments could possibly improve it even more. I’ve added a feedback poll that ends Aug. 1st, 2015. But, please, feel free to express why you feel it should or should not return to Halo. That is all. And thank you for reading and taking part.

2

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Please Share

3

> 2788612804991922;2:
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Please Share

It was a good system. But the sudden reinforcement of either team could be unbalancing in smaller games.

4

I like the idea but the only problem I had with in HR was people would sometime respawn on a player and that player was in combat which is annoying as hell and one player would walk over to the base and hide while the other players would kill themselves on purpose just to respawn at the enemy base which was also annoying. But if 343 fix these problems and other problems that the community comes up with then I wouldn’t mine this making a return for Halo. Since it doesn’t have to be always on I wouldn’t mine that much at all.

5

> 2533275018690103;3:
> > 2788612804991922;2:
> > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Please Share
>
>
> It was a good system. But the sudden reinforcement of either team could be unbalancing in smaller games.

True. This is why it would be disabled for small games like 2v2, swat, etc.

> 2533274804280158;4:
> I like the idea but the only problem I had with in HR was people would sometime respawn on a player and that player was in combat which is annoying as hell and one player would walk over to the base and hide while the other players would kill themselves on purpose just to respawn at the enemy base which was also annoying. But if 343 fix these problems and other problems that the community comes up with then I wouldn’t mine this making a return for Halo. Since it doesn’t have to be always on I wouldn’t mine that much at all.

I address this in my original post.
When spawning, there’s a 3rd person view of the player you can spawn on, similar to Halo Reach. This way, you can decide if you want to spawn on them or not.
I also address the camping issues from Halo Reach (and Hardline). Bases are surrounded with Team based Ani-Spawn zones. This way, the buddy system will not occur in these zones. Thus, no spawn camping. At least not in this manner.

6

One of the worst experiences with FPS gaming in general is spawning in combat. Spawning is perhaps the worst aspect of Halo CE. Spawning, taking one step, then getting killed should never happen. Which is why I want to spawn out of line of sight, away from the enemy, and preferably near a weapon spawn.

7

I read your entire post, but still would prefer buddy spawning to be entirely absent from Halo.

The reason it works with (most) BFHL gametypes is because of the grand-scale maps and the “capture this point and move on” aspect of that game. In Halo, spawning at designated spawns is not a problem in terms of the amount of time out takes to get back into combat like it is in BF.

Simply “fixing” the issues you discussed concerning buddy spawning would be an incredibly difficult task for ANY developer. The problem where a player hides around a corner so his buddies can keep spawning off him? There’s no way to program against that. And if it were somehow fixed, the conditions required to allow buddy spawning would become so restrictive that players would have a hard time using it.

Buddy spawning should not be in Halo because it could never fit the flow of any Halo gametype or map (provided Halo 5 doesn’t introduce a 16v16 gametype/map).

8

> 2535415525188239;7:
> I read your entire post, but still would prefer buddy spawning to be entirely absent from Halo.
>
> The reason it works with (most) BFHL gametypes is because of the grand-scale maps and the “capture this point and move on” aspect of that game. In Halo, spawning at designated spawns is not a problem in terms of the amount of time out takes to get back into combat like it is in BF.
>
> Simply “fixing” the issues you discussed concerning buddy spawning would be an incredibly difficult task for ANY developer. The problem where a player hides around a corner so his buddies can keep spawning off him? There’s no way to program against that. And if it were somehow fixed, the conditions required to allow buddy spawning would become so restrictive that players would have a hard time using it.
>
> Buddy spawning should not be in Halo because it could never fit the flow of any Halo gametype or map (provided Halo 5 doesn’t introduce a 16v16 gametype/map).

This. What he said. Too many problems with this mechanic, and they are not solvable.

9

> One of the worst experiences with FPS gaming in general is spawning in combat. Spawning is perhaps the worst aspect of Halo CE. Spawning, taking one step, then getting killed should never happen. Which is why I want to spawn out of line of sight, away from the enemy, and preferably near a weapon spawn.

Agreed. It’s why I’m also suggesting players have a option as to where they spawn. Each Halo map has spawn zones. These zones are where the developers (and good Forgers) place their spawns. All 343i needs to do is allow the player to choose which zone to spawn in. This worked very well in Halo Reach’s Invasion mode. Spawn camping will happen no matter what (unless it’s base spawns). There’s just no way around it. But allowing the player to choose where to spawn will make it more difficult to spawn camp. As of now, in Halo, it’s WAY TOO PREDICTABLE. And also give the player a option “to spawn out of line of sight, away from the enemy, and preferably near a weapon spawn.”

> I read your entire post, but still would prefer buddy spawning to be entirely absent from Halo.
>
> The reason it works with (most) BFHL gametypes is because of the grand-scale maps and the “capture this point and move on” aspect of that game. In Halo, spawning at designated spawns is not a problem in terms of the amount of time out takes to get back into combat like it is in BF.
>
> Simply “fixing” the issues you discussed concerning buddy spawning would be an incredibly difficult task for ANY developer. The problem where a player hides around a corner so his buddies can keep spawning off him? There’s no way to program against that. And if it were somehow fixed, the conditions required to allow buddy spawning would become so restrictive that players would have a hard time using it.
>
> Buddy spawning should not be in Halo because it could never fit the flow of any Halo gametype or map (provided Halo 5 doesn’t introduce a 16v16 gametype/map).

Agree on your first point. However, spawn camping is a HUGE issue. Being able to buddy spawn will improve this aspect. But like I stated already, Buddy Spawning can be removed for small maps for the reasons you’ve stated.

It wouldn’t be “incredibly difficult” at all. A simple line (or two, maybe three) of code can prevent ‘Buddy Camping’. Halo already has code in it that recognizes when a player does not move. Attach kills to that code, and ‘Buddy Camping’ can be prevented. Or at least minimized a great deal. Your “restrictive” point is based on assumptions of a unknown “fix”. Not to be a jerk, but that argument isn’t logical. But I think I see what you’re trying to say. But you seem to have forgotten the Spawn Zone options. Allowing a player to also choose a zone (instead of a buddy) to spawn at would help prevent spawn restrictions. I’m not even suggesting a actual buddy system as Halo Reach (or even Hardline) uses. I’m suggesting a spawn system (that’s already in Halo’s code) that allows players to spawn at a Spawn Zone of their choice OR any member of their team. Not just one or two buddies. Unless of course the teammate(s) are in a “Anti-Spawn” zone. ie, bases, hills, capture points, etc. I may have to create a diagram map to help explain this.

Buddy Spawning would not hurt the flow of “any Halo gametype or map”. It’s proven to work via Halo Reach’s Invasion and Slayer games. I’m also not suggesting it be implemented into every game-type. That would just be silly. Small maps would not need the buddy system (though the spawn zone option would greatly help). Nor would Swat, 2v2, Infection, One Flag, Griffball, Ricochet, Action Sack, and others.

16v16 would be nice, but there’s no way it would work in Halo’s types of “large” maps. Halo players already complain that Halo’s “large” maps are too big. I don’t see this. I mostly complain that Halo’s small maps are too small. In large part to their terrible spawns.

10

> 2788612804991922;9:
> > I read your entire post, but still would prefer buddy spawning to be entirely absent from Halo.
> >
> > The reason it works with (most) BFHL gametypes is because of the grand-scale maps and the “capture this point and move on” aspect of that game. In Halo, spawning at designated spawns is not a problem in terms of the amount of time out takes to get back into combat like it is in BF.
> >
> > Simply “fixing” the issues you discussed concerning buddy spawning would be an incredibly difficult task for ANY developer. The problem where a player hides around a corner so his buddies can keep spawning off him? There’s no way to program against that. And if it were somehow fixed, the conditions required to allow buddy spawning would become so restrictive that players would have a hard time using it.
> >
> > Buddy spawning should not be in Halo because it could never fit the flow of any Halo gametype or map (provided Halo 5 doesn’t introduce a 16v16 gametype/map).
>
>
> Agree on your first point. However, spawn camping is a HUGE issue. Being able to buddy spawn will improve this aspect. But like I stated already, Buddy Spawning can be removed for small maps for the reasons you’ve stated.
>
> It wouldn’t be “incredibly difficult” at all. A simple line (or two, maybe three) of code can prevent ‘Buddy Camping’. Halo already has code in it that recognizes when a player does not move. Attach kills to that code, and ‘Buddy Camping’ can be prevented. Or at least minimized a great deal. Your “restrictive” point is based on assumptions of a unknown “fix”. Not to be a jerk, but that argument isn’t logical. But I think I see what you’re trying to say. But you seem to have forgotten the Spawn Zone options. Allowing a player to also choose a zone (instead of a buddy) to spawn at would help prevent spawn restrictions. I’m not even suggesting a actual buddy system as Halo Reach (or even Hardline) uses. I’m suggesting a spawn system (that’s already in Halo’s code) that allows players to spawn at a Spawn Zone of their choice OR any member of their team. Not just one or two buddies. Unless of course the teammate(s) are in a “Anti-Spawn” zone. ie, bases, hills, capture points, etc. I may have to create a diagram map to help explain this.
>
> Buddy Spawning would not hurt the flow of “any Halo gametype or map”. It’s proven to work via Halo Reach’s Invasion and Slayer games. I’m also not suggesting it be implemented into every game-type. That would just be silly. Small maps would not need the buddy system (though the spawn zone option would greatly help). Nor would Swat, 2v2, Infection, One Flag, Griffball, Ricochet, Action Sack, and others.
>
> 16v16 would be nice, but there’s no way it would work in Halo’s types of “large” maps. Halo players already complain that Halo’s “large” maps are too big. I don’t see this. I mostly complain that Halo’s small maps are too small. In large part to their terrible spawns.

Let me explain what I meant about buddy spawning becoming restrictive and thereby difficult to use. It is indeed perfectly logical. I think the best way to demonstrate this is with examples, because I probably won’t make much sense otherwise.

Let’s say that your proposed solution is implemented – the game will analyze when a player has not moved for a long time, as well as analyze how long it’s been since they’ve gotten a kill (or even just hit a target), and determine if you are “buddy camping”. This will work only on the assumption that you have to stay still to be a successful buddy camper. If there’s a cluster of enemies 20 yards away and I’m hiding in a building buddy camping, I’m outside of the range of their radar, so I am free to walk around in circles and take a pot shot at an enemy every now and then to make the game think I’m not camping. What if I’m closer? Crouch walking would do the trick, preventing me from being revealed on their radar. Now, you could say that the code would account for that as well (and possibly the pot shot exploit, too). At this point, the game now might be able to prevent buddy camping, but there are now so many conditions to meet that there are going to be times it prevents buddy spawning from taking place even if you weren’t trying to camp. It is a fundamental rule in all application design, games included, that you don’t program a plethora of invisible restrictions/condition requirements for you to be able to complete a certain task. It makes the user experience frustrating and difficult to utilize. How can you fulfill the requirements of a contract if you don’t know what the requirements are, or if they are so cryptic and hidden, you won’t have a chance to easily meet them? This is why, with buddy spawning, we are faced with only three options:

  • Implement buddy spawning with very little restrictions, allowing players to easily use it, but also allowing them to exploit it in contrast to Halo’s natural flow.
  • Implement buddy spawning with complex, conditional restrictions, making it difficult for players to exploit it, but also making it difficult and frustrating to try to use in all but the most simple of scenarios.
  • Forgo buddy spawning entirely and rely on well designed, conditional spawning zones only.It seems to me that you would like for buddy spawning, in some capacity, to exist alongside spawning zones. Unfortunately, I don’t think buddy spawning could ever be implemented properly at all (in any Halo map/gametype, with exception of some of the outrageously huge PC-only maps from CE, which we’re not going to be seeing any more of in Halo 5 and beyond). You may have liked buddy spawning in Reach’s Invasion - I did too! Unfortunately, people were indeed exploiting it and making matches unfair, depending on how good they were at being cheap.

In conclusion, there is in theory a way to program incredibly complex and intelligent code to determine successfully if someone is exploiting buddy spawning or not, but that approaches the complexity and implementation difficulty of full on artificial intelligence. 343 has been unable to program effective netcode throughout MCC’s entirety – even now, it is severely lacking. I have zero faith that a company could successfully implement exploit-free buddy spawning without putting immense amounts of time, talent, and resources to do it, something I know for a fact that 343 is not prepared or willing to do.

11

It was only in Invasion due to the size of the map and the game type it wouldn’t work in any other game type.

12

Well said and explained, DeathBySplatter.
Thank you for that. While reading it, I was reminded of how difficult it currently is to boot a purposely betraying team-mate.

However; I do, deeply, believe Halo would benefit from Spawn Zone Switching. Allowing players to simply dcide which spawn zone they spawn in via their death camera. All maps have built in spawn zones already. They also have anti-spawn zones for teams. Allowing us to quickly switch between zones would greatly decrease the possibility of being spawn killed. It’ll not stop it of course, but it would help. Unless the enemy has all zones covered. But that happens now. The problem is that Spawn Zones are VERY predictable. I’m suggesting minimizing those predictions.

> 2533274823755997;11:
> It was only in Invasion due to the size of the map and the game type it wouldn’t work in any other game type.

True, but there were different takes of Invasion. One was CTF style while the other was straight up slayer. This is what I meant.