Spartans become worthless

Community Halo Universe
1

A lot of things have changed since the genrations have passed from I to IV, but the last generation is, at least for me, not considerable anymore as spartans.

The armour is becoming unnessery lighter, less protecting, with paper shileds,which cant even recharge while sprinting, they need an aditional system for aiming, and have to do down sight. They lack in the spartan attitudes, and fail in being a spartan, this is noticeable by those spartan 4 who betrayed the unsc, and even more important, their comrades, even for just money. Unthinkable things with spartan II and III

but what do you think?

2

Basically the Spartan program has become streamlined and refined process and i found that 343I did do a good job showing that in Halo 5 because if you look at Blue Team Vs Osiris, you can clearly tell that the Spartan II’s although older, are really superior to the Spartan 4’s relying much more on technology vs Blue Team. The Spartan 4 program gives USMC Marines a choice to Upgrade…but compared to the Spartan II’s, they are half the Spartan any Spartan 2 is.

3

Most of your complaints are just for in-game balance. You really think the UNSC is going to deploy Spartans into the field with anything less than the best they can give them?
Also, sure, a couple of Spartans turned traitor. But guess what? There were always more Spartans to stop them. The UNSC doesnt have to worry about who they loose now because THEY CAN JUST THROW MORE SPARTANS AT THEM TILL THEY KEEL OVER. Palmer and Buck for example. And we’ve had…what, two, three Spartans turn traitor out of, oh I don’t know, a thousand plus successes? Thats better than most mainline units.

4

> The armour is becoming unnessery lighter,

I wouldn’t say unnecessary. Why would lighter armor be considered a negative? Not having over half-ton Spartans running around is a good thing.

> less protecting,

Based on what, exactly?

> with paper shileds,which cant even recharge while sprinting,

In-game mechanic. That does not apply in the lore.

> they need an aditional system for aiming, and have to do down sight.

Smart Link is a different visual representation of how we’ve aimed in previous Halos. And truthfully, why does it matter?

> They lack in the spartan attitudes, and fail in being a spartan, this is noticeable by those spartan 4 who betrayed the unsc, and even more important, their comrades, even for just money. Unthinkable things with spartan II and III
> but what do you think?

We’ve seen plenty of IVs showcase “Spartan attitudes,” which if I’m being honest, is an arbitrary definition. I’m also not sure what you mean by “failing in being a Spartan.” To be honest, it really shouldn’t be much of a surprise, although not preferred, that there will be turncoat Spartans. The UNSC has had a whole slew of turncoats from marine grunts all the way up to admiralty.
Also, you mention it being unthinkable to a II: Soren, a washout II attempted to defect to the Innies, Aiken grew disgruntled with the UNSC and left, and if I’m not mistaken, Jorge had some sympathy for Innies.

5

> 2535414341107016;1:
> A lot of things have changed since the genrations have passed from I to IV, but the last generation is, at least for me, not considerable anymore as spartans.
>
> The armour is becoming unnessery lighter,
> Lighter armor is a necessity for better mobility and easier mass production. Besides, it’s not like it’ll matter how heavy the plating is if plasma will melt right through it either way.
>
> less protecting,
> The undersuit itself is also armor. It doesn’t protect any less than previous iterations of MJOLNIR.
>
> with paper shileds,which cant even recharge while sprinting,
> Both are gameplay balancing mechanics. You want to complain that Spartans couldn’t sprint in the original games next?
>
> they need an aditional system for aiming, and have to do down sight.
> This “additional system” is the same system as before. Scopes and sights have always been linked to the helmet’s display system through smart-link technology., It wasn’t until Halo 5 that 343 decided to call it Smart Scope.
>
> They lack in the spartan attitudes, and fail in being a spartan, this is noticeable by those spartan 4 who betrayed the unsc, and even more important, their comrades, even for just money. Unthinkable things with spartan II and III
> **Why do they need to have “Spartan attitudes”? They lived through different circumstances compared to older Spartans. How do they fail in being Spartans? They still work in close groups, wear MJOLNIR armor, take on missions that typically aren’t possible for normal humans, and are still super soldiers. And the Spartan-IVs that helped the Insurrection are very few. Out of the first few classes, which comprise of a few hundred Spartans, only two that we know of went Insurrectionist, and it was largely because they were connected to Insurrectionist families. And like tL Armada above me said, lots of non-Spartan personnel went turncoat. Hell, I’d wager that most of the Insurrectionist forces are former UNSC.**but what do you think?
> I think you’re just jumping on the Spartan-IV hate bandwagon.

6

spartans 4s are 343i’s watered down spartans that they want to make theirs they hate anything to do with b***ie i dont want to say the name im almost convinced i will be banned for mentioning them they hate everything halo use to be every little thing they have to change everything to the opposite and it isnt saving halo or making it hip as the kids say it

7

Spartan II trainees were heavily augmented , so much so that a lot didn’t make it through the process. Spartan IV augments are far less intrusive and far safer. Spartan II trainees were trained as children to understand they were the last line of defense for humanity , from 6 years old. Spartan VI trainees are standard enlistees who have volunteered or been recommended for the process , they are regular people prior to enlistment and have standard military training as a back ground.

8

Sometimes I wonder: when Bungie introduced Spartan IIIs, did they get as much flack as Spartan IVs do now? Do people hate anything that isn’t a Spartan II, or do people just like to rag on 343i for even the most trivial things?

9

> 2533274881285056;6:
> spartans 4s are 343i’s watered down spartans that they want to make theirs they hate anything to do with b***ie i dont want to say the name im almost convinced i will be banned for mentioning them they hate everything halo use to be every little thing they have to change everything to the opposite and it isnt saving halo or making it hip as the kids say it

You are rambling so incoherently that I have no idea what it is you are even hating about 343.

10

Also, anyone who starts bashing on Spartan-IVs really needs to remember that the Spartan-IV candidates had to survive the Human-Covenant War as normal, unaugmented, unshielded human beings.

11

> 2533274817408735;8:
> Sometimes I wonder: when Bungie introduced Spartan IIIs, did they get as much flack as Spartan IVs do now? Do people hate anything that isn’t a Spartan II, or do people just like to rag on 343i for even the most trivial things?

They got some flak for them , but not as much because they gave us a reason for them being “mass produced”. 343 just wanted a way to make more Spartans and to be able to make them “safer” it seems , so that any moment they can strut out the newest Hero character. I mean really there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of difference between Spartan III and IV other than the shiny plastic armor. (Spartan III’s out side of Noble wore SPI? armor I believe. If memory serves it was a black , active camo style , light armor).

12

> 2535414341107016;1:
> A lot of things have changed since the genrations have passed from I to IV, but the last generation is, at least for me, not considerable anymore as spartans.
>
> The armour is becoming unnessery lighter, less protecting, with paper shileds,which cant even recharge while sprinting, they need an aditional system for aiming, and have to do down sight. They lack in the spartan attitudes, and fail in being a spartan, this is noticeable by those spartan 4 who betrayed the unsc, and even more important, their comrades, even for just money. Unthinkable things with spartan II and III
>
> but what do you think?

So much is wrong with this;

  1. There is no such thing as a Spartan 1, the project was called Orion and while it had a similar goal its methods were quite different. It also produced the weakest results.
  2. What do you mean by “unnessery lighter”? I assume you meant “unnecessarily lighter”.
  3. The Shields on the Gen 2 armours are stronger and recharge more quickly then the Shields on older armours so I don’t know what your talking about with your "paper armour’ comment. Even based on gameplay the shields are the same strength with a faster recharge.
  4. The not recharging while sprinting is gameplay balance not a canon feature.
  5. Zoom has been in halo since day one.
  6. So 2/~500 spartan 4’s are known to have defected and as pointed out from the S-2s we had; Soren-066 the defector and Randall-037 the deserter. thats 2/~78.
13

> 2533274849452225;2:
> Basically the Spartan program has become streamlined and refined process and i found that 343I did do a good job showing that in Halo 5 because if you look at Blue Team Vs Osiris, you can clearly tell that the Spartan II’s although older, are really superior to the Spartan 4’s relying much more on technology vs Blue Team. The Spartan 4 program gives USMC Marines a choice to Upgrade…but compared to the Spartan II’s, they are half the Spartan any Spartan 2 is.

Yes I agree with you. There is a clear difference and it is meant to be there. The Spartan-II’s are scarred from what they have been through, while normal everyday people have the opportunity to become Spartan-IV’s. Catherine Halsey believes that Spartan-II’s are superior, especially how she calls them “Her spartans” rather than just Spartans. Spartan-IV’s are more close to human than Spartan-II’s have ever had the chance to be, and it is fully intentional.

14

I fail to see how Spartans are becoming worthless. Keep in mind, there are only three-hundred participants in the SPARTAN-IV program compared to the millions of common soldiers, airmen, and marines among the UNSC’s main forces. I think it silly to automatically assume that these new Spartans are worthless, when most of them come directly from ODST divisions, who I might add, have endured unimaginable pain and accomplished unimaginable feats. If anyone deserves the right to be called SPARTAN, it’s certainly them.

But of course when compared to those among the SPARTAN-II program, these newer Spartans will look inferior, and they are exactly that- inferior. They weren’t kidnapped as children nor subject to the rigorous training and augmentation procedures of the past, but they have certainly proved themselves as worthy successors to those who came before them. In Halo canon, a good majority of the original SPARTAN-II’s are gone. From a canonical standpoint (as well as a rational one), it makes perfect sense to begin the next cycle of Spartan super soldiers to replenish the ranks, and to pick from a pool of elite individuals who have already proven themselves in battle.

I love the original Spartans as much as the next person, but the days of their reign on the battlefield is over. Kidnapping another group of children and training them for twenty years is at this point, unnecessary when there are thousands of other, elite and talented individuals who can certainly fill the places of the original second generation.

15

> 2533274982950750;14:
> I fail to see how Spartans are becoming worthless. Keep in mind, there are only three-hundred participants in the SPARTAN-IV program compared to the millions of common soldiers, airmen, and marines among the UNSC’s main forces. I think it silly to automatically assume that these new Spartans are worthless, when most of them come directly from ODST divisions, who I might add, have endured unimaginable pain and accomplished unimaginable feats. If anyone deserves the right to be called SPARTAN, it’s certainly them.
>
> But of course when compared to those among the SPARTAN-II program, these newer Spartans will look inferior, and they are exactly that- inferior. They weren’t kidnapped as children nor subject to the rigorous training and augmentation procedures of the past, but they have certainly proved themselves as worthy successors to those who came before them. In Halo canon, a good majority of the original SPARTAN-II’s are gone. From a canonical standpoint (as well as a rational one), it makes perfect sense to begin the next cycle of Spartan super soldiers to replenish the ranks, and to pick from a pool of elite individuals who have already proven themselves in battle.
>
> I love the original Spartans as much as the next person, but the days of their reign on the battlefield is over. Kidnapping another group of children and training them for twenty years is at this point, unnecessary when there are thousands of other, elite and talented individuals who can certainly fill the places of the original second generation.

With you until you said that the IVs were inferior, at least those that came from ODSTs and such. I never really thought of it until you put it in this format, but you’re right about them having been through the same trials as the SIIs during the H-C War, but with very little of the same advantages. They didn’t have shields, or indestructible bones, or MJOLNIR, or an entire life’s worth of training and yet they fought and survived. So they are already extremely capable warriors, along with some of the most scarred individuals this side of SII augmentation. Current Aug may suck, but old-skool aug killed, and killed a lot.

Now, the new recruits they bring in that don’t have the combat experience of a HC veteran ODST will be inferior until they get some trigger time, which their appears to be no shortage of in the near future in that universe.

I was one of those guys who didn’t want to like the IVs, and held the IIs to a higher candle, but you just made one great case for why the IVs who came through what they did should be on par with the IIs. After all, strip augmentation and MJOLNIR off a Spartan and what do you get? An ODST if the Spartan was tactically worth their salt, which they all were, to begin with.

16

> 2535411711152989;15:
> > 2533274982950750;14:
> > I fail to see how Spartans are becoming worthless. Keep in mind, there are only three-hundred participants in the SPARTAN-IV program compared to the millions of common soldiers, airmen, and marines among the UNSC’s main forces. I think it silly to automatically assume that these new Spartans are worthless, when most of them come directly from ODST divisions, who I might add, have endured unimaginable pain and accomplished unimaginable feats. If anyone deserves the right to be called SPARTAN, it’s certainly them.
> >
> > But of course when compared to those among the SPARTAN-II program, these newer Spartans will look inferior, and they are exactly that- inferior. They weren’t kidnapped as children nor subject to the rigorous training and augmentation procedures of the past, but they have certainly proved themselves as worthy successors to those who came before them. In Halo canon, a good majority of the original SPARTAN-II’s are gone. From a canonical standpoint (as well as a rational one), it makes perfect sense to begin the next cycle of Spartan super soldiers to replenish the ranks, and to pick from a pool of elite individuals who have already proven themselves in battle.
> >
> > I love the original Spartans as much as the next person, but the days of their reign on the battlefield is over. Kidnapping another group of children and training them for twenty years is at this point, unnecessary when there are thousands of other, elite and talented individuals who can certainly fill the places of the original second generation.
>
>
> With you until you said that the IVs were inferior, at least those that came from ODSTs and such. I never really thought of it until you put it in this format, but you’re right about them having been through the same trials as the SIIs during the H-C War, but with very little of the same advantages. They didn’t have shields, or indestructible bones, or MJOLNIR, or an entire life’s worth of training and yet they fought and survived. So they are already extremely capable warriors, along with some of the most scarred individuals this side of SII augmentation. Current Aug may suck, but old-skool aug killed, and killed a lot.
>
> Now, the new recruits they bring in that don’t have the combat experience of a HC veteran ODST will be inferior until they get some trigger time, which their appears to be no shortage of in the near future in that universe.
>
> I was one of those guys who didn’t want to like the IVs, and held the IIs to a higher candle, but you just made one great case for why the IVs who came through what they did should be on par with the IIs. After all, strip augmentation and MJOLNIR off a Spartan and what do you get? An ODST if the Spartan was tactically worth their salt, which they all were, to begin with.

Also, I think I might be able to explain as to why current augs are garbage. In the original “Halo: Fall of Reach” novel, it mentioned that any attempt by non-augmented persons to wear MJOLNIR would consequently end in broken bones, torn muscle and ligament, etc. It was stated that only an augmented person had the capability of controlling, or even wearing the suit without horribly maiming themselves. Even Chief had difficulty in the beginning; during an early training exercise he ran too quickly and tore his achilles tendon, the stress on his body from the suit too great.

Now consider that a SPARTAN-II has significantly less physical augmentation than a SPARTAN-II. I’m sure that this hasn’t been stated anywhere in canon, but I’d like to think that if a SPARTAN-IV tried to wear the original MJOLNIR variants, they’d seriously injury or even cripple themselves. The results of the SPARTAN-IV augmentations are nowhere near as effective as the previous programs, therefore these new spartans have to rely on their variants of the MJOLNIR suits to compensate. As stated in canon, a SPARTAN-IV is more of an elite athlete compared to a SPARTAN-II, a supernatural monster. The UNSC wouldn’t put a physically inferior SPARTAN into a suit that would kill them, so the suit would absolutely need to be a downgraded variant.

17

> 2533274982950750;16:
> > 2535411711152989;15:
> > > 2533274982950750;14:
> > > I fail to see how Spartans are becoming worthless. Keep in mind, there are only three-hundred participants in the SPARTAN-IV program compared to the millions of common soldiers, airmen, and marines among the UNSC’s main forces. I think it silly to automatically assume that these new Spartans are worthless, when most of them come directly from ODST divisions, who I might add, have endured unimaginable pain and accomplished unimaginable feats. If anyone deserves the right to be called SPARTAN, it’s certainly them.
> > >
> > > But of course when compared to those among the SPARTAN-II program, these newer Spartans will look inferior, and they are exactly that- inferior. They weren’t kidnapped as children nor subject to the rigorous training and augmentation procedures of the past, but they have certainly proved themselves as worthy successors to those who came before them. In Halo canon, a good majority of the original SPARTAN-II’s are gone. From a canonical standpoint (as well as a rational one), it makes perfect sense to begin the next cycle of Spartan super soldiers to replenish the ranks, and to pick from a pool of elite individuals who have already proven themselves in battle.
> > >
> > > I love the original Spartans as much as the next person, but the days of their reign on the battlefield is over. Kidnapping another group of children and training them for twenty years is at this point, unnecessary when there are thousands of other, elite and talented individuals who can certainly fill the places of the original second generation.
> >
> >
> > With you until you said that the IVs were inferior, at least those that came from ODSTs and such. I never really thought of it until you put it in this format, but you’re right about them having been through the same trials as the SIIs during the H-C War, but with very little of the same advantages. They didn’t have shields, or indestructible bones, or MJOLNIR, or an entire life’s worth of training and yet they fought and survived. So they are already extremely capable warriors, along with some of the most scarred individuals this side of SII augmentation. Current Aug may suck, but old-skool aug killed, and killed a lot.
> >
> > Now, the new recruits they bring in that don’t have the combat experience of a HC veteran ODST will be inferior until they get some trigger time, which their appears to be no shortage of in the near future in that universe.
> >
> > I was one of those guys who didn’t want to like the IVs, and held the IIs to a higher candle, but you just made one great case for why the IVs who came through what they did should be on par with the IIs. After all, strip augmentation and MJOLNIR off a Spartan and what do you get? An ODST if the Spartan was tactically worth their salt, which they all were, to begin with.
>
>
> Also, I think I might be able to explain as to why current augs are garbage. In the original “Halo: Fall of Reach” novel, it mentioned that any attempt by non-augmented persons to wear MJOLNIR would consequently end in broken bones, torn muscle and ligament, etc. It was stated that only an augmented person had the capability of controlling, or even wearing the suit without horribly maiming themselves. Even Chief had difficulty in the beginning; during an early training exercise he ran too quickly and tore his achilles tendon, the stress on his body from the suit too great.
>
> Now consider that a SPARTAN-II has significantly less physical augmentation than a SPARTAN-II. I’m sure that this hasn’t been stated anywhere in canon, but I’d like to think that if a SPARTAN-IV tried to wear the original MJOLNIR variants, they’d seriously injury or even cripple themselves. The results of the SPARTAN-IV augmentations are nowhere near as effective as the previous programs, therefore these new spartans have to rely on their variants of the MJOLNIR suits to compensate. As stated in canon, a SPARTAN-IV is more of an elite athlete compared to a SPARTAN-II, a supernatural monster. The UNSC wouldn’t put a physically inferior SPARTAN into a suit that would kill them, so the suit would absolutely need to be a downgraded variant.

I think you’ve misunderstood a few things here. Firstly mjolnir armour kills non-augmented operators because their bones aren’t capable of withstanding the amplification of force that mjolnir suits cause. They snap under the very strain of movement. All Spartan augmentations to date - save for Spartan Is - result in a Spartan’s bones being “virtually unbreakable”. This is done to allow a Spartan’s bones to survive under the strain of the movement of their own augmented muscles, as well as to allow them to wear mjolnir safely. Spartan IVs don’t wear modified or weakened mjolnir suits; in fact, their suits amplify their strength by a greater factor so as to compensate for their weaker muscular augmentations. As far as I know, the only augmentations Spartan IVs have that are less effective are their muscular augmentations, and perhaps the enhancements to their reaction times, although we don’t know how much faster this super-mylienation of their nervous systems makes them.

Secondly, Chief tore his Achilles’ tendon during a particular strenuous exercise in 2552 that almost killed him. He’d already had nearly three decades of experience in Mjolnir armour at this point.

18

I’ve previously stated that the Spartan 4’s are a streamlined versions, what you are seeing is simply seeing are the advances that have been made; making it possible to take Combat Vets and turn them into "Super Soldiers. The Spartan 2 and 3 program made it possible to upgrade soldiers instead of children, making the process cheaper. Considering how Dr. Halsey is being viewed by the UNSC/ONI, although HER Spartans are a true super soldier; her methods wont be duplicated due to the morality of the issue.

Its simply the advancement of technology; but this advancement comes at a cost of true value. A Spartan 4 is simply a Spartan 1/2 compared to the Spartan 2’s and the clear indication is the final cut scene of Halo 4 when you see John 117 walking among the Spartan 4’s on Infinity. Quite frankly the Spartan 4’s tech has to compensate. The Spartan 4’s are already harden combat vets who volunteer for augmentation, vs children who receive years of training, indoctrination and receive augmentation at an earlier age.

The Spartan 4’s are not worthless by any means, but the Spartan 4’s are the quickest route to obtain Super Soldiers; probably cheaper too due to all the other costs associated with housing, training etc as your using people who already have years of combat experience. But the Spartan II’s are the true Super Soldier with all those reasons stated above. Spartan are not worthless by any means; but with advancement some sacrifices will be made to streamline and create an almost “assembly line” process. But what I see if anything; is the true value of the Spartan II’s.

19

> 2535437652903765;10:
> Also, anyone who starts bashing on Spartan-IVs really needs to remember that the Spartan-IV candidates had to survive the Human-Covenant War as normal, unaugmented, unshielded human beings.

People seem to forget this. It isn’t easy fighting an 7’4 elite when you’re only 6 foot.

20

> 2535466678522027;19:
> > 2535437652903765;10:
> > Also, anyone who starts bashing on Spartan-IVs really needs to remember that the Spartan-IV candidates had to survive the Human-Covenant War as normal, unaugmented, unshielded human beings.
>
>
> People seem to forget this. It isn’t easy fighting an 7’4 elite when you’re only 6 foot.

I don’t understand why some people describe Spartan IVs as “just ODSTs in power armour”. ODSTs are likely more lethal than any fighting force that has ever existed on this planet, but whatever.

They also say “any average Joe can be a Spartan now” as if Spartan IVs didn’t have to pass a gruelling training regime which is likely 10x tougher than that of any training regime used by special forces today. But hey, if your average Joe is as lethal as a Tier 1 Operator, the Covies don’t stand a chance.