Spartan selection.

Community Halo Universe
1

Hey guys, I was curious to know and all. But I was trying to find something on this and have not seen this or read any info that explains this, and what I mean is other then passing games or being recruited by Jun to become a part of the Spartan Branch how do they endure being a “Spartan” because to me being recruited is different then going through a selection and a baptism of fire or rite of passage to being one of the Elite in one of the most Elite Units in UNSC SOF. If anyone can explain this to me, because I don’t understand the “Spartan” fours and one of the reasons is because I do not know what they went through to become that said Spartan. Because for anyone who read the books we all know what the Spartan II and IIIs went through, and what their training was and the physical push they had to put themselves through in order to be a Spartan.
Also to add if no one can answer the selection process to me. I thought up my own idea what I think would be a interesting way the Spartan IVs go through a selection process:

Spartan IV Selection:
In order to be recruited to the Spartan Branch and become a Spartan IV he or she must meet a Basic Requirement Process (BRP) for example:

  • Over the age of 22 - Not over the age of 40 - Committed over five years of service to the UNSC Special Operations Force (SOF) - Has NO misconduct or negative action taken against them. (If so then must be considered misconduct and over three years - <strong>Must have been active in a UNSC SOF Unit for over two years. (Example: have been a ODST for two years. But still has to be active in the UNSC SOF)</strong> - <strong><strong>Must pass a standard physical training test</strong></strong> - <strong><strong>Edit: "Recruit must have also conducted High Profile/ Priority missions with enormous amounts of success."</strong></strong>Once they complete BRP they then move to the Selection Phase which is two months long. Which is a extreme mental and physical push to the limits to see if they meet the standards to make the next step to becoming a Spartan. In order to pass selection they must be selected based on reviews from peers and cadre, then selected by the Officer in charge of the Selection which is a Spartan cadre are as well.

Once they complete the Selection Phase they will receive a four day pass to recover. Then from there the selected candidates will then move to the Selection Qualification Course Phase which is a three year process. This qualification course is to set and train the candidates to become proficient and perfected in hand to hand, weapons function and operation, combat scenarios and tactics, military history, discipline, know how to coordinate and plan out combat operations, and execute combat simulation and training. This course still has the extreme mental and physical push but over the course of three years.

Once said candidates are selected the same way as the selection phase, they will proceed to stand process by a review/interview board (which consist of the Spartan Commander, Spartan recruiter, Spartan Officer of the Qualification Course, the medical officer and the said candidates Team Leader) If they review/interview board agrees to select the said candidate, they will be selected to become a Spartan and go through augmentation process, if not selected then they will be dismissed and returned to their previous SOF Unit.

Then from there, after augmentation they will be put on a Spartan Team which consist of fresh candidates and their Team leader who was at their board, from their the said Spartans are set to a two year probation which is to see if said Spartan can bond and blend with team and move at pace with high operational tempo of training. (If said Spartan can not bond and blend or does not meet operational standard. Team leader can put in a dismissal for said Spartan and removal from the Spartan Branch and back to their SOF unit)

After all that those Spartans become a active Spartan team and to be stationed at UNSC Infinity for Spartan deployments or other assignments.
Well guys tell me what you think I am all for constructive criticism and all and I know I could have posted this in the fan section and all but this being in regards to the Halo verse and those who know lore I would love to know you input and all. I apologize for spelling and grammar errors its like 1am where I am at.

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Your idea is actually really cool :smiley: but the not over the age of 40 well they clearly make exceptions since Buck is 48 years old in Halo 5 but other than that it was a good read!

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> 2533274885760426;2:
> Your idea is actually really cool :smiley: but the not over the age of 40 well they clearly make exceptions since Buck is 48 years old in Halo 5 but other than that it was a good read!

Haha well thank you. I completely forgot Buck was 48, then again I wrote this thing at 1am. I guess at the time of writing this I was looking at this in a close to realistic as possible.

4

Well from what I know there isn’t really a set criteria for people to meet to become an S-IV, unlike the II’s or III’s. Jun did try to recruit soldiers who had already proven themselves (Palmer, Buck etc) and officially S-IV recruits are drawn from seasoned veterans and newer soldiers who show great promise but in practice that doesn’t always happen. People like Madsen go to show that, though it can be assumed cases like his are certainly in the minority.

We also don’t know how long S-IV training is, but given everything we know it can be assumed to not be very long. Locke was still a normal ONI agent in early 2556, but was a Spartan by October of 2558. I’m guessing the S-IV training is nowhere near as long or in depth as II or III training because the people they’re recruiting for the program already have at least some training and they can simply add onto that.

I quite like your ideas actually, minus a few minor gripes (the age thing and required service in an SOF unit) I could see myself adding this to my fanon universe haha.

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just watch halo canon on youtube

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> 2533274820430915;4:
> Well from what I know there isn’t really a set criteria for people to meet to become an S-IV, unlike the II’s or III’s. Jun did try to recruit soldiers who had already proven themselves (Palmer, Buck etc) and officially S-IV recruits are drawn from seasoned veterans and newer soldiers who show great promise but in practice that doesn’t always happen. People like Madsen go to show that, though it can be assumed cases like his are certainly in the minority.
>
> We also don’t know how long S-IV training is, but given everything we know it can be assumed to not be very long. Locke was still a normal ONI agent in early 2556, but was a Spartan by October of 2558. I’m guessing the S-IV training is nowhere near as long or in depth as II or III training because the people they’re recruiting for the program already have at least some training and they can simply add onto that.
>
> I quite like your ideas actually, minus a few minor gripes (the age thing and required service in an SOF unit) I could see myself adding this to my fanon universe haha.

Well, realistically don’t you think it would make sense to recruit from operators that were in UNSC SOF that have done high profile to high priority missions for the UNSC and proven that they can grow and do even higher things in the operator world…

What age would you change it too.

Also I forgot to add and thanks for semi reminding me to edit. In regards to that the recruit must have also participated in high priority missions or high profile missions and met with enormous success.

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> 2535443109918274;5:
> just watch halo canon on youtube

I did but couldn’t find anything in relation at least not enough to answer my question.

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[deleted]

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> 2533274924007631;8:
> That looks good to me for the most part. The thing with the Spartan IV’s is that not all that much detail was put into it. All we’ve been told was that they are chosen by their service records and given strictly custom tailored augmentations. People are also recruited via letters of recommendation as well, like Holly Tanaka. After augmentations they have custom training equipment assigned to them and are literally forced to drill out any bad habits they had gained during their years of service. However, i think this definitely fills in the rough details missing. Good post.

Its pretty sad that the Spartan IVs weren’t given much detail at all which causes distaste because they could have put in alot of effort to explain what these individuals went through to become a Spartan, but since there isn’t alot of people view “Spartan” 4s with the who the **** are you!!! Because I want to give them a chance but I just can’t…

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Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).

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> 2533274888884869;10:
> Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).

Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.

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> 2533274884104399;11:
> > 2533274888884869;10:
> > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
>
>
> Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.

actually he was a gun for hire, today’s version of a contractor and was hired based on set skill, so yes he was Para military, hired by a three letter organization, also ONI is attached to the navy doesn’t mean they follow military standard put out by the UNSC Navy.

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> 2533274806039005;12:
> > 2533274884104399;11:
> > > 2533274888884869;10:
> > > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
> >
> >
> > Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.
>
>
> actually he was a gun for hire, today’s version of a contractor and was hired based on set skill, so yes he was Para military, hired by a three letter organization, also ONI is attached to the navy doesn’t mean they follow military standard put out by the UNSC Navy.

Before he joined ONI. After he joined them he became a field agent. ONI is a military branch under the UNSC Navy, so yes he’s military. Paramilitary would imply he works for an unofficial organization that conducts themselves in a military fashion. ONI certainly isn’t that. They’re the official military intelligence branch of the UNSC. Osman (the head of ONI) has a seat on the UNSC Security Council, which has control over the entire UNSC. Sorry, but ONI and in turn Locke are military. Arguing semantics isn’t going to make it any less of a fact.

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> 2533274806039005;12:
> > 2533274884104399;11:
> > > 2533274888884869;10:
> > > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
> >
> >
> > Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.
>
>
> actually he was a gun for hire, today’s version of a contractor and was hired based on set skill, so yes he was Para military, hired by a three letter organization, also ONI is attached to the navy doesn’t mean they follow military standard put out by the UNSC Navy.

Locke was established as an ONI acquisition specialist. He’s a company man through and through. The Nightfall series was supposed to be about his character seeing the honor of Spartans and wanting to become more than just a spook. Poorly executed though. Simply because it’s called the “Office of Naval Intelligence” doesn’t mean that HIGHCOM has any say over what they do. ONI likes to put on the show that HIGHCOM is in charge of things, but the real power lies with CINCONI (Commander in Chief ONI) and has been that way for decades. Prior to ONI’s establishment in the canon as an amalgam of the modern day FBI, CIA, NSA, DHS, and several other alphabet agencies it was considered part of Military Intelligence (back when Eric Nylund’s first book came out).

As for Spartan selection itself, remember that the culture of the military is very different from how it’s portrayed in books and TV. If anything, the treatment we saw of the guys in ODST is a bit closer to reality. Sadly, the original Red vs Blue is probably the most apt depiction of military life this side of an actual enlistment. Either way, professional conduct is pretty rare when you’re working with people you live with. Even the really high-speed guys I know tend to be pretty humor-oriented, so Buck’s probably the best written character in the series right now.

With the Spartan-IV program, all of the trainees are consenting adults of legal age. That’s really the only guideline. After the incident with Michael Crespo, recruiting criteria was revised to help avoid Insurrectionist sympathizers. Palmer doesn’t fit the bill of a traditional officer, but Spartan Branch doesn’t have a traditional command structure. She’s in command of Infinity’s Spartans but it’s mostly a logistical role. She’s got a personal bone to pick with Halsey, and Brian Reed’s treatment of her character (and all the characters really) is godawful. Still, she’s not just some dumb jarhead.

There’s no integration with Army or Marines beyond use of Material. One of the fundamental concepts behind the creation of the Spartan-IV program is that it wouldn’t be another NAVSPECWEP program. It’s a self-contained and separate branch with no oversight from the other branches. Personally I think that’s the dumbest crock of -Yoink- I’ve ever heard, but to someone with no understanding of organizational command structure and tasking, it’s cool.

Honestly the Spartan-IVs shouldn’t even be called Spartans. It’s significantly closer to the original Project Orion than Halsey’s or even Ackerson’s Spartan programs. Their augmentations are nowhere near as potent, and they rely too heavily on their MJOLNIR gen2 suits to compensate. Looking at the entire thing with any kind of line experience makes it seem like one giant -Yoink–show where no one’s actually in charge and everyone’s just doing their own thing for the sake of plot progression. Especially considering that if Spartans are a separate branch from the Navy, then there’s no way that 117 and blue team could have been considered AWOL if they don’t report to Lasky or anyone else on the Infinity. Even Palmer says that no one tells 117 what to do, he does what he wants. That doesn’t make for good order and discipline.

If 343i really wanted to fix the flustercuck that is the “Spartan Branch” they’d have ONI Section 3 step in and say “we’re in charge now. You’re all under the command of Naval Special Warfare” like it was in the good old days, and that would be that. Instantly available organizational structure and some kind of a leash on currently unrestrained super soldiers.

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> 2533274815294005;14:
> > 2533274806039005;12:
> > > 2533274884104399;11:
> > > > 2533274888884869;10:
> > > > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > > > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > > > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > > > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > > > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
> > >
> > >
> > > .
>
>
>
>
> As for Spartan selection itself, remember that the culture of the military is very different from how it’s portrayed in books and TV. If anything, the treatment we saw of the guys in ODST is a bit closer to reality. Sadly, the original Red vs Blue is probably the most apt depiction of military life this side of an actual enlistment. Either way, professional conduct is pretty rare when you’re working with people you live with. Even the really high-speed guys I know tend to be pretty humor-oriented, so Buck’s probably the best written character in the series right now.
>
> With the Spartan-IV program, all of the trainees are consenting adults of legal age. That’s really the only guideline. After the incident with Michael Crespo, recruiting criteria was revised to help avoid Insurrectionist sympathizers. Palmer doesn’t fit the bill of a traditional officer, but Spartan Branch doesn’t have a traditional command structure. She’s in command of Infinity’s Spartans but it’s mostly a logistical role. She’s got a personal bone to pick with Halsey, and Brian Reed’s treatment of her character (and all the characters really) is godawful. Still, she’s not just some dumb jarhead.
>
>
> Honestly the Spartan-IVs shouldn’t even be called Spartans. It’s significantly closer to the original Project Orion than Halsey’s or even Ackerson’s Spartan programs. Their augmentations are nowhere near as potent, and they rely too heavily on their MJOLNIR gen2 suits to compensate. Looking at the entire thing with any kind of line experience makes it seem like one giant -Yoink–show where no one’s actually in charge and everyone’s just doing their own thing for the sake of plot progression. Especially considering that if Spartans are a separate branch from the Navy, then there’s no way that 117 and blue team could have been considered AWOL if they don’t report to Lasky or anyone else on the Infinity. Even Palmer says that no one tells 117 what to do, he does what he wants. That doesn’t make for good order and discipline.
>
> If 343i really wanted to fix the flustercuck that is the “Spartan Branch” they’d have ONI Section 3 step in and say “we’re in charge now. You’re all under the command of Naval Special Warfare” like it was in the good old days, and that would be that. Instantly available organizational structure and some kind of a leash on currently unrestrained super soldiers.

110% agree with this!! Thank you I felt like there was only very few who felt way… See and this is why I always wondered when it came to these so called Spartan fours… How did they even go through the pit of fire to earn the title of Spartan which is why I just thought up of this inn OP that would make sense for the supposed Spartan IVs to become the supposed Spartan we all kinda see them as…

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Looks like you covered pretty much everything to do with the holes in the Spartan IV program so I won’t mention anything else other than I agree with you nearly completely. Especially about the creation of a separate -Yoinking!- branch. What is the purpose of doing that if they are still completely dependent on every other branch for combat support. Should have remained a component of Navy SOF honestly.

Also here’s a thought, I would say the lengthy 3-year Q-Course is unnecessary seeing as how they are already pulling from SOF units with their own Q-courses. I imagine the S4 program as being similar to units like CAG and DEVGRU, where the initial selection is hell, then afterwards you immediately start integrating into the teams and go through prolonged train-ups. Still a lot to learn before becoming 100% integrated but nothing like 3 years. At least that’s how I see it.

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> 2533274796974117;16:
> . Especially about the creation of a separate -Yoinking!- branch. What is the purpose of doing that if they are still completely dependent on every other branch for combat support. Should have remained a component of Navy SOF
>
> Also here’s a thought, I would say the lengthy 3-year Q-Course is unnecessary seeing as how they are already pulling from SOF units with their own Q-courses. I imagine the S4 program as being similar to units like CAG and DEVGRU, where the initial selection is hell, then afterwards you immediately start integrating into the teams and go through prolonged train-ups. Still a lot to learn before becoming 100% integrated but nothing like 3 years. At least that’s how I see it.

I agree with the three years being little long and for ones especially that come from other UNSC SOF units. But reason why I put this is because alot of us who wonder and read the books or watch YouTube vids to see what the Spartan IIs and IIIs went through so I just put this and explained what if the Spartan IVs would go through if the training was somewhat like the training of the older generations breaking them then rebuilding them.

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> 2533274796974117;16:
> Especially about the creation of a separate -Yoinking!- branch. What is the purpose of doing that if they are still completely dependent on every other branch for combat support. Should have remained a component of Navy SOF honestly.

This is something that bothers me the most about the post-war lore, the entire idea of the Spartan Branch and how it has no rank structure is just stupid. It would never work in practice.

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> > 2533274806039005;12:
> > > 2533274884104399;11:
> > > > 2533274888884869;10:
> > > > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > > > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > > > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > > > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > > > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
> > >
> > >
> > > Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.
> >
> >
> > actually he was a gun for hire, today’s version of a contractor and was hired based on set skill, so yes he was Para military, hired by a three letter organization, also ONI is attached to the navy doesn’t mean they follow military standard put out by the UNSC Navy.
>
>
> Before he joined ONI. After he joined them he became a field agent. ONI is a military branch under the UNSC Navy, so yes he’s military. Paramilitary would imply he works for an unofficial organization that conducts themselves in a military fashion. ONI certainly isn’t that. They’re the official military intelligence branch of the UNSC. Osman (the head of ONI) has a seat on the UNSC Security Council, which has control over the entire UNSC. Sorry, but ONI and in turn Locke are military. Arguing semantics isn’t going to make it any less of a fact.

So allow me to expand - Locke was not a soldier (infantry / marine) in the commonest definition of the term. His role was original as a sole operator, and then operating in a semi militarized section of ONI - which makes it a lot more similar to the CIA engaging with a PMC to provide muscle, then it does to small unit combat tactics. Within ONI, his role is strongly implied to be around target removal / acquisition (eg volunteering to assassinate the Arbiter). So whilst in the most broad sense, he was engaged by a branch of the military, when compared to special forces, or infantry, or marines, his skill set, and approach are vastly different. You could argue that a cook employed by the marines is military as well, even though the only time the cook needs to handle weapons is the annual compulsory training. Did boot camp, once, a long time ago, and since then really hasn’t seen a lot of combat. I put Locke as a lot more competent than my theoretical cook, but still not a mainstream soldier.
On a similar argument, Sully, who basically seems to be driving a desk and PR within ONI, is military, even though his role could just as easily be done by a civilian in a similar organization (a bit like the difference between the GRU (military intelligence) and KGB (semi-civilian run intelligence) in the USSR). In a similar line, Miya (Fero) could be argued to be military (she does work for ONI), even though she is not displaying any of the skills traditionally used by those who have a job of being in firefights.

20

> 2533274888884869;19:
> > 2533274884104399;13:
> > > 2533274806039005;12:
> > > > 2533274884104399;11:
> > > > > 2533274888884869;10:
> > > > > Given what we already know about S-IV selection, which is that just about anyone can get in (Locke for example is not military - he is at best a para-military, and Vale was a translator / cultural expert, Tanaka wasn’t special forces at all, and by all accounts Thorne was just regular infantry), having some guidelines may help.
> > > > > My concern with guidelines is that entire fireteams are made up of exceptions (I can’t believe anyone in Fireteam Majestic had made special forces before becoming Spartans, unless the standards around professional behavior have dropped massively). Similarly, Buck had made a point of being sufficiently disciplined over time to permit him to stay with his team, rather than be promoted out. And Palmer just reeks of walking insubordination prior to being offered the role (can’t stand anyone with slightly more than two brain cells in his/her head).
> > > > > Completing a lot of missions runs into technical challenges - whilst on the here and now there seems to be plenty of opportunity, there is still plenty of good material out there who, for various reasons, won’t see combat (Vale could easily not have made the basic selection criteria, except she got lucky in one mission). And on occasion, a raw recruit will shine as an example (as I recall Thorne had very little service time before being offered the S-IV program - 6 months?).
> > > > > From a pure physiological perspective, getting the human body whilst it is still relatively pliable (before age 25) is a bonus, as there is greater chance of more complete integration with the enhancements (which is why both the S-IIs and S-IIIs were done at puberty, and at least one batch of S-IIIs were artificially accelerated to puberty). So being open to taking 18 year olds would be advantageous (and given there is evidence that 16 year olds were volunteering for training, even if they weren’t being deployed (both Hunt The Truth and Forward Unto Dawn suggest this), you could have two years of track record before signing them up for the surgery, even though they’ve never seen actual combat.
> > > > > In terms of your integration with existing units - excellent idea. Used extensively in World War I to bring raw recruits up to speed quickly. Makes sense. In terms of sending them back - a bit of a challenge, given the surgery / enhancements would be non-reversible. I can see them being trialed in a few different settings (even special forces have specialisations - from recon, to commandos, to hostage rescue, etcetera).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Um yes he was. ONI is part of the Navy and Locke was a field agent within ONI. He certainly was Military.
> > >
> > >
> > > actually he was a gun for hire, today’s version of a contractor and was hired based on set skill, so yes he was Para military, hired by a three letter organization, also ONI is attached to the navy doesn’t mean they follow military standard put out by the UNSC Navy.
> >
> >
> > Before he joined ONI. After he joined them he became a field agent. ONI is a military branch under the UNSC Navy, so yes he’s military. Paramilitary would imply he works for an unofficial organization that conducts themselves in a military fashion. ONI certainly isn’t that. They’re the official military intelligence branch of the UNSC. Osman (the head of ONI) has a seat on the UNSC Security Council, which has control over the entire UNSC. Sorry, but ONI and in turn Locke are military. Arguing semantics isn’t going to make it any less of a fact.
>
>
> So allow me to expand - Locke was not a soldier (infantry / marine) in the commonest definition of the term. His role was original as a sole operator, and then operating in a semi militarized section of ONI - which makes it a lot more similar to the CIA engaging with a PMC to provide muscle, then it does to small unit combat tactics. Within ONI, his role is strongly implied to be around target removal / acquisition (eg volunteering to assassinate the Arbiter). So whilst in the most broad sense, he was engaged by a branch of the military, when compared to special forces, or infantry, or marines, his skill set, and approach are vastly different. You could argue that a cook employed by the marines is military as well, even though the only time the cook needs to handle weapons is the annual compulsory training. Did boot camp, once, a long time ago, and since then really hasn’t seen a lot of combat. I put Locke as a lot more competent than my theoretical cook, but still not a mainstream soldier.
> On a similar argument, Sully, who basically seems to be driving a desk and PR within ONI, is military, even though his role could just as easily be done by a civilian in a similar organization (a bit like the difference between the GRU (military intelligence) and KGB (semi-civilian run intelligence) in the USSR). In a similar line, Miya (Fero) could be argued to be military (she does work for ONI), even though she is not displaying any of the skills traditionally used by those who have a job of being in firefights.

Except none of those are particularly good analogies as Locke is specifically stated to be a field agent within ONI. Not to mention all Military branches have different roles for individuals. The Marines don’t consist of only soldiers. The Army doesn’t consist of only soldiers. If your role in those branches is that of a soldier then you are a soldier. In ONI Locke was a field agent (essentially a soldier) and thus was a soldier in every definition of the word. He was part of a militarized unit in Nightfall and displayed all the skills you’d normally see in regular infantry.