So it looks like the Spartan IV augmentations will be either equal to or superior to that of the III’s and could even put the IV’s on par with the II’s. I’m basing this solely on the information presented in the interactive guide.
Reading up on Commander Palmer’s profile on the interactive guide it stated that her height was 6ft 9in. I’m pretty sure Kelly stands at 6ft 10in, meaning Palmer is only 1 inch shorter than one of the Spartan-II’s with perfect genes. As far as I can remember as well, the Spartan-III’s were around the same size as a standard human with those who had perfect genes (E.g. Noble team) reaching 6ft 10in much like the Spartan-II’s. This leads me to believe that the augmentations were far more effective on the IV’s as I doubt Palmer would have perfect genes (It’s a possibility but a very slim one).
She is also described as weighing 241 lbs. Now I’m not the best at maths so correct me if I’m wrong but that equates to about 17 stone. I don’t know about you, but I’ve never seen ANYONE as slim as her that weighs 17 stone. This leads me to believe that all of her weight is due to toned muscle mass and that she would actually be far more buff if it weren’t for her character model being slimmer to further exaggerate the fact that she’s a woman (Even though it’s supposed to be impossible to tell the difference between Spartans when they wear mjolnir). The Chief weighs around 3-4 stone more than her, which actually isn’t that much more.
I’m really hoping that the Spartan IV’s don’t turn out like Noble team and that their potential is actually shown. I’d love for them to be more similiar to the Spartan-II’s than the pseudo-spartans that make up Noble team.
psuedo spartans? Noble team = S3. Their showings ingame are similar to the showings of Master Chief in CE. (Or at least, Noble Six’s showings).
Now, if you talk ingame… that’s an effect of AI. Halo 4 might have better AI scripting, but that doesn’t mean Noble Team and s3’s suck (If you didn’t know).
Honestly, I’d wait to comment on the augmentations until we actually get some listed information.
IMO, They might have an adult friendly augmentation set they give to ALL S4’s, S2’s and S3’s alike. We don’t know. Or they might just be to normal adults and get them to S3/S2 levels (S2’s and S3’s are pretty close in terms of reflexes, strength, and speed. S2’s boost comes from the thyroid implant (I think) which affected growth and helped the other augmentations kick in.)
Now, this subject of S-II’s vs S-IV’s was beaten to death in another thread here, so I’m not going into that bag of worms… Palmers listed height is in armor (same as MC’s). Further, that puts her at about 6’5… Which is freakishly tall for a woman. Same goes for her weight, her listed weight is way to heavy for her body type (very thin) & height, she should be closer to an even 200, not 240 lbs…
Only explanation for her height is gene therapy or a ridiculous amount of growth hormones. I work with the general public and it’s rare enough seeing a woman who is 6 foot, but 6’5? Yeah right.
> psuedo spartans? Noble team = S3. Their showings ingame are similar to the showings of Master Chief in CE. (Or at least, Noble Six’s showings).
>
> Now, if you talk ingame… that’s an effect of AI. Halo 4 might have better AI scripting, but that doesn’t mean Noble Team and s3’s suck (If you didn’t know).
>
> Honestly, I’d wait to comment on the augmentations until we actually get some listed information.
>
> IMO, They might have an adult friendly augmentation set they give to ALL S4’s, S2’s and S3’s alike. We don’t know. Or they might just be to normal adults and get them to S3/S2 levels (S2’s and S3’s are pretty close in terms of reflexes, strength, and speed. S2’s boost comes from the thyroid implant (I think) which affected growth and helped the other augmentations kick in.)
I know that Noble team are spartan-III’s, I just referred to them as “Pseudo-spartans” because they weren’t exactly portrayed the same way as the Spartan-II’s are in the books, or even as being as deadly as the III’s that wore SPI. I’m sure in Ghosts of onyx the III’s were described as being so skilled in CQC that they could dodge point-blank plasma pistol bolts and energy sword attacks. Even in the cutscenes, they felt little more than hyped up marines. They had neither the attitude or “Feel” about them that made me think “Wow these guys are good” like the Spartan-II’s do. Noble team are supposed to be on par with Chief and the III’s due to their genes and mjolnir but I just couldn’t see any resemblance.
Then again this is probably just because Noble team haven’t been fleshed out as characters or expanded upon outside this one short game and so really it’s unfair to describe them as pseudo-spartans.
Yeah of course, I wish they’d hurry up though. I find Spartans are one of the most interesting aspects of the Halo universe (Besides the covenant and forerunners etc). I thought I’d just come up with some guesstimates based on what little confirmed information we have.
I think you’re probably right about the thyroid implant and the closeness between II’s and III’s though. That’s the way I’ve always seen it anyway.
> Now, this subject of S-II’s vs S-IV’s was beaten to death in another thread here, so I’m not going into that bag of worms… Palmers listed height is in armor (same as MC’s). Further, that puts her at about 6’5… Which is freakishly tall for a woman. Same goes for her weight, her listed weight is way to heavy for her body type (very thin) & height, she should be closer to an even 200, not 240 lbs…
>
> Only explanation for her height is gene therapy or a ridiculous amount of growth hormones. I work with the general public and it’s rare enough seeing a woman who is 6 foot, but 6’5? Yeah right.
So effectively, we are basically seeing SIV’s and S3’s being equalish in height out of armor?
> So effectively, we are basically seeing SIV’s and S3’s being equalish in height out of armor?
Compared to Noble Team, I’d say that’s more or less accurate. The vast majority of S-III’s never lived long enough to reach there full adult height, even with puberty being artificially induced early on.
I think it’s from weakest to toughest:
Spartan III
Spartan IV (JUST below the Spartan II)
Spartan II
The average Spartan-III is on par with the average Spartan-II (without taking into account equipment and experience). This was made very clear in Ghosts of Onyx.
It’s likely that the Spartan-IVs are on-par with previous Spartans, and their augmentation would have been made to replicate the results of the S-II programs (minus the death toll).
> The average Spartan-III is on par with the average Spartan-II (without taking into account equipment and experience). This was made very clear in Ghosts of Onyx.
>
> It’s likely that the Spartan-IVs are on-par with previous Spartans, and their augmentation would have been made to replicate the results of the S-II programs (minus the death toll).
Condensed training, less strict genetic requirements, questionable brain altering augmentations, and Kurts direct thoughts on the recruits themselves say otherwise.
S-IV’s are basically Delta Force/Seal Team 6 caliber soldiers with augmentations & Mjolnir. Impressive, but not the genetically selected trained from youth killers that were the previous Spartans. That distinction was made early in The Fall of Reach.
> > The average Spartan-III is on par with the average Spartan-II (without taking into account equipment and experience). This was made very clear in Ghosts of Onyx.
> >
> > It’s likely that the Spartan-IVs are on-par with previous Spartans, and their augmentation would have been made to replicate the results of the S-II programs (minus the death toll).
>
> Condensed training, less strict genetic requirements, questionable brain altering augmentations, and Kurts direct thoughts on the recruits themselves say otherwise.
>
> S-IV’s are basically Delta Force/Seal Team 6 caliber soldiers with augmentations & Mjolnir. Impressive, but not the genetically selected trained from youth killers that were the previous Spartans. That distinction was made early in The Fall of Reach.
For the S-II program, the genetic requirements were necessary in order to survive the augmentation process. By the time of the S-III program, medical science had advanced enough so that the same results could be achieved with lower cost and less restriction.
The book features many scene with Spartan-IIs in full Mjolnir and Spartan-IIIs in SPI armor working together to great affect. We also see direct comparisons between Kurt, an S-II in SPI armor, and Tom and Lucy of Beta Company. They are able to keep up with, and are basicially on par with Kurt.
Now, the training may have been condensed, but it was much tougher than anything the Spartan-IIs had. Kurt made sure of it.
The augmentations received by the S-IIIs had identical results to those received by the S-IIs. It is entirely likely that the same can be said for the S-IVs
> > > The average Spartan-III is on par with the average Spartan-II (without taking into account equipment and experience). This was made very clear in Ghosts of Onyx.
> > >
> > > It’s likely that the Spartan-IVs are on-par with previous Spartans, and their augmentation would have been made to replicate the results of the S-II programs (minus the death toll).
> >
> > Condensed training, less strict genetic requirements, questionable brain altering augmentations, and Kurts direct thoughts on the recruits themselves say otherwise.
> >
> > S-IV’s are basically Delta Force/Seal Team 6 caliber soldiers with augmentations & Mjolnir. Impressive, but not the genetically selected trained from youth killers that were the previous Spartans. That distinction was made early in The Fall of Reach.
>
> For the S-II program, the genetic requirements were necessary in order to survive the augmentation process. By the time of the S-III program, medical science had advanced enough so that the same results could be achieved with lower cost and less restriction.
>
> The book features many scene with Spartan-IIs in full Mjolnir and Spartan-IIIs in SPI armor working together to great affect. We also see direct comparisons between Kurt, an S-II in SPI armor, and Tom and Lucy of Beta Company. They are able to keep up with, and are basicially on par with Kurt.
>
> Now, the training may have been condensed, but it was much tougher than anything the Spartan-IIs had. Kurt made sure of it.
>
> The augmentations received by the S-IIIs had identical results to those received by the S-IIs. It is entirely likely that the same can be said for the S-IVs
I think this is a case where you’re both right to a degree. The II’s augmentations were similiar to the III’s to the point where the III’s were VERY close to the II’s. The II’s however had perfect genes and as a result, the effects of their augmentations were amplified. The II’s also had the thyroid growth implant which made them “beefier” and just generally larger (Including height. I think this is what it did anyway). The III’s were better trained though (Due to having a spartan trainer who gave them a strict and intense training regime).
I reckon the IV’s will be on par with the III’s in terms of their physical bodies due to their augmentations. They won’t have the incredible training that the III’s do but they make up for that with years of experience and natural talent. Not to mention they’ll have mjolnir which would definitely put them above the standard Spartan-III in SPI.
> “After poring over every detail of the new recruits’ files, Kurt discovered they didn’t match the perfect psychological and genetic markers set in Dr. Halsey’s original selection protocols. Colonel Ackerson had warned him they had to draw from a “less statistically robust” group. These recruits wouldn’t be anything like himself, John, Kelly, or any of the original SPARTAN-II candidates.”
-Ghosts of Onyx, Page 67-68
I am going to agree to disagree, the comparative effectiveness is apparently up to the readers interpretation. Though I thought the books made it abundantly clear that, besides a select handful of individuals, S-II’s were superior to S-III’s on a fundamental level, excluding Mjolnir suits.
S-IV’s are awesome, makes it much easier to step into the shoes of a ex-ODST Special Forces soldier and start kicking butt & taking names.
> > “After poring over every detail of the new recruits’ files, Kurt discovered they didn’t match the perfect psychological and genetic markers set in Dr. Halsey’s original selection protocols. Colonel Ackerson had warned him they had to draw from a “less statistically robust” group. These recruits wouldn’t be anything like himself, John, Kelly, or any of the original SPARTAN-II candidates.”
>
> -Ghosts of Onyx, Page 67-68
And that proves nothing other than the S-IIIs did not have the superior genetics of the S-II candidates. However, their augmentation process was designed to replicate, exactly, the augmentations and result of the S-II program.
> And that proves nothing other than the S-IIIs did not have the superior genetics of the S-II candidates. However, their augmentation process was designed to replicate, exactly, the augmentations and result of the S-II program.
Neither do your given examples, but like I said, I’m agreeing to respectfully disagree here, see last post.
> > > “After poring over every detail of the new recruits’ files, Kurt discovered they didn’t match the perfect psychological and genetic markers set in Dr. Halsey’s original selection protocols. Colonel Ackerson had warned him they had to draw from a “less statistically robust” group. These recruits wouldn’t be anything like himself, John, Kelly, or any of the original SPARTAN-II candidates.”
> >
> > -Ghosts of Onyx, Page 67-68
>
> And that proves nothing other than the S-IIIs did not have the superior genetics of the S-II candidates. However, their augmentation process was designed to replicate, exactly, the augmentations and result of the S-II program.
Besides. “Wouldn’t be anything like the S2 candidates” is a very vague statement open to many viewpoints.
Besides… is there any factual statement that the S3 genetics didn’t give the same results as the S2’s? I don’t recall that ever being touched upon.
Frankly, since the ‘standard S3’ atm = gamma company, who is going into the S4 program (dummo if they’ll get additional augments that adults can take.), I’d say out of armor it’s S2 > (by a small bit) S3 = SIV probably.
> Besides… is there any factual statement that the S3 genetics didn’t give the same results as the S2’s? I don’t recall that ever being touched upon.
>
> Frankly, since the ‘standard S3’ atm = gamma company, who is going into the S4 program (dummo if they’ll get additional augments that adults can take.), I’d say out of armor it’s S2 > (by a small bit) S3 = SIV probably.
Those genetics, combined with the growth hormones both in the food they ate and the thyroid implant are what made S2’s so large and physically capable. I’ve read the Nylunds books about four times and own the Halo Encyclopedia (a bit outdated now I guess), and nowhere does it state that the raw genetics of S2’s compound the effects of the augmentations beyond the successive generations of the programs. No idea where that came from. The S2’s just have more physically ideal body’s to perform those augmentations on, both through repair enzymes, robust DNA structure, and physical size.
Gamma company doesn’t exist, it’s the remnants of Team Saber and Team Katana, half of which are never mentioned again after the Ghosts of Onyx.
I suppose that if you look at the only factual evidence that isn’t up to interpretation, the S-II’s are superior on a genetic level and overall size due to the Thyroid Implant, which was not given to S-III’s. You have to factor out equipment and experience, due to the S-III’s not having either (generally). Also, Halsey states in her personal journal that the S-II candidates would have been remarkable people within normal society; Khan-gas Khan, Cleopatra, Etc. Beyond the physical, there are supposed to psychological differences & risks as well, although they aren’t really touched on.
Actually, glasslands explicitly says that gamma company is being added to the S4 program.
Doesn’t say how many, just says they are. IIRC, in a way that implies more then just the two teams.
I’ve heard Glasslands says the team in the slipspace pods are pulled out and get medical aid, but after that they are ignored :P.
> Actually, grasslands explicitly says that gamma company is being added to the S4 program.
>
> Doesn’t say how many, just says they are. IIRC, in a way that implies more then just the two teams.
>
> I’ve heard Glasslands says the team in the slipspace pods are pulled out and get medical aid, but after that they are ignored :P.
In Onyx, Team Katana & Saber were the only ones left out of Gamma company… Everyone else is either KIA or MIA. I read Grasslands and don’t remember any of that, but that could be from my constant “WTF’ing” over the rest of the book.
> > Actually, grasslands explicitly says that gamma company is being added to the S4 program.
> >
> > Doesn’t say how many, just says they are. IIRC, in a way that implies more then just the two teams.
> >
> > I’ve heard Glasslands says the team in the slipspace pods are pulled out and get medical aid, but after that they are ignored :P.
>
> In Onyx, Team Katana & Saber were the only ones left out of Gamma company… Everyone else is either KIA or MIA. I read Grasslands and don’t remember any of that, but that could be from my constant “WTF’ing” over the rest of the book.
Um, actually that’s not true o_O
Teams Katana, saber, and the third team were remaining on Onyx for top honor competitions. The rest of Gamma were off-planet from deployments. They never called them KIA or MIA.
> > > Actually, grasslands explicitly says that gamma company is being added to the S4 program.
> > >
> > > Doesn’t say how many, just says they are. IIRC, in a way that implies more then just the two teams.
> > >
> > > I’ve heard Glasslands says the team in the slipspace pods are pulled out and get medical aid, but after that they are ignored :P.
> >
> > In Onyx, Team Katana & Saber were the only ones left out of Gamma company… Everyone else is either KIA or MIA. I read Grasslands and don’t remember any of that, but that could be from my constant “WTF’ing” over the rest of the book.
>
> Um, actually that’s not true o_O
>
> Teams Katana, saber, and the third team were remaining on Onyx for top honor competitions. <mark>The rest of Gamma were off-planet from deployments</mark>. They never called them KIA or MIA.
Kind of unrelated, but I would be that those off-planet gamma company member comprised the “Gauntlet, Red, and Echo” teams mentioned in Halo Reach