Spartan II Physical Strength Measurments

Community Halo Universe
1

So, I recently finished reading Halo: Envoy, and some particularly interesting showing of Spartan strength has inspired me make some consistent as possible calcs on the Strength of a Spartan-II in armour. While yes, there are lower and higher showings of Spartan strength (most of which are unarmoured), I decided to focus on the strength displayed when in their armour, and when they’re noticeably straining doing so, rather than babbling over the warthog flip for the thousandth time in the Halo community.

The Fall of Reach: Monolith feat:

There’s an excerpt in The Fall of Reach, where 3 Spartans, and 1 wounded Spartan (James-005) manage to push a gargantuan an cracked quartz monolith, sliding the brunt of its weight across itself to eliminate some Mgalekgolo. Take note of how these same creatures can backhand 3.5 tonne warthogs several metres away, implying an extreme level of weight from the monolith.

Now, let’s just break down the concept of friction. It’s a resistive force that prevents two mediums (typically an object to the normal force of the ground) from sliding two objects freely amongst eachother. In basic high school physics, this concept is often ignored when determining the work of an object. This resistance is known as the coefficient of friction, with the symbol µ. In physics, steel has a coefficient (meaning the ratio of resisting force from the object itself to the ground) of around 0.6 of gravitational force. Assuming the coefficient of friction was equivalent to steel, the kinetic friction to move something of this size would be approximately 60 percent of the force required to lift. However, The monolith was the density of quartz, with the dimensions of a 6x3x3 metre, M12-sized pillar (it seemed very wide, considering 4 Spartans could squeeze themselves along one face), this would weigh around 140 tonnes - if we were to believe the gravity was equivalent to Earth’s.

What we need to do now is multiply the weight of the object by the resistance coefficient of quartz, otherwise known as silicon dioxide. In most instances (and likely with something of this size), this will be around 0.9 to 0.4µ, kinetic, as it is functionally similar to glass. The coefficient of friction will be equivalent to 0.9 times the force of gravity on the top crystal (where the highest range of frictional force would likely be), divided by 0.1µ with the quartz proportional to the ground. With a straightly cut crack, this would require the following formula:

µ = Ff/Fn

Where Ff is the steel (or perpendicular force), and Fn is the quartz monolith

µ = 0.4 / 0.9

= 0.44.5µ. This would be equivalent to a strong human pushing something similar without wheels that weighed 224.7 kilograms, or the average man pushing 157 kilograms.

Now, a vertical pushing force will be similar to that of a bench-press, so comparing the two may seem at least decently reasonable. If we were to assume that the force of gravity was that of Earth’s, then the monolith will have an applied 1,372,000N.

Plugging in this with the coefficient of friction, we can determine the kinetic force necessary to move the monolith from it’s initial positioning.

F = 1,372,000 * 0.44.5

= 609,777.8N or around 60.9 tonnes of combined pushing strength. The average man can push with an approximate force of 600N

However, we must account for the fact that James-005 had a missing arm at the time, and did not participate in the initial displacement of the monolith. Because of this, there will be 6 arms coming into contact with the face of the monolith. Therefore, each Spartan was applying:

609,777.8 / 3 = 203,259N

Meaning each Spartan was applying a bench-press equivalent of 20.7 tonnes. If I recall correctly, the visual source for this monolith varied in dimensions, though initially appearing cuboid in shape, making an apt representation of these numbers. It must also be noted that said quartz slab only managed to move a “little bit”, meaning that if they attempted to upthrust this kind of force in a bench press, they likely would fail and be crushed by the weight. Realistically, this number would be a more feasible contrast to a 15-18 tonne successful bench press.

Evidence of Tank-rolling:

Many people have a tendency to rebuttal the claims from Frank O’Connor, the Franchise Development Director at 343 Industries, in that Spartans can overturn an M808 Scorpion - believing his statement to be mere hyperbole on his part.

However, I’d like to point out that his assertion seemed more in line as indicative of their abilities, given he stressed the idea of said gameplay capabilities being the few instances where the physical strength of Spartan IIs can be demonstrated, even aligning it with the other superhuman performances and not isolating the idea of such. What would be an exaggeration on his part, was the statement of Spartans lifting the tank in similar positioning to a bench-press.

Now, according to Grimbrotherone, overturning a tank is again, not out of the question for a Spartan’s canonical abilities. Because of these two statements, let’s look at the required leverage to succeed with such a feat., shall we?

Leverage from one side of the vehicle would equate to half of the centre-mass of the symmetrical vehicle. Using the formula to calculate mechanical leverage, this would come to weight x distance from weight to fulcrum = lifting force x distance from lifting force to fulcrum

138,000 * 3.9 = Lifting force * 7.8

To tip the entire vehicle from it’s peak force, you would need the strength to overcome it’s weight at a 45 degree angle.

Weight x 3.9 = Lifting force * 7.8

Lifting force = 0.5 * 646,800(0 degrees). The force on the M808 Scorpion is 646.8 thousand newtons, when on a planet with the equivalent gravity of Earth.

At 45 degrees, this will come as:

Weight = 646,800 * Cos (45)

= 646,800 * 0.525
= 339,570

The lifting force will therefore be:

= 0.5 * 339,570

= 169,785N, or around 17 tonnes of lifting force coming from each Spartan.

To appropriate for a lower-end interpretation, let’s measure the weight of the the newest model, the M820 Scorpion tank, which weighs 35 metric tonnes with a gravitational force applied of 343,000 newtons. I’d be hesitant with the number’s given from Halo Waypoint however, as it states the Grizzly to be 5 tonnes lighter than the Scorpion, despite it’s larger size and heavier armament directly scaled from the M808.

= 343,000 * 0.525
= 180,075

The lifting force will now be:

180,075 * 0.5
= 90,037.5 newtons, or a 9 metric tonne lifting force. In contrast unaugmented individuals, this will make a Spartan 150 times stronger than the average man, and 90 times the strength of a notably healthy human male.

2

Now, some of you may be thinking that this kind of strength would allow them to jump as high as 45 feet in the air, and you would be right about that. In the canon, Spartans have indeed demonstrated this jump height on multiple occasions, including here at 1:55.

This aligns with what they do in the gameplay, both in Halo Wars 1 and 2, ignoring the idea that skyjacking banshees is a common theme when it comes to a Spartan’s raw power. This is also a similar jump height so the Arbiter’s original jump in the quasi-canonical Halo 2, when he ambushes Sergeant Johnson and Miranda Keyes. (33 minutes in). of course, there are exceptions to this, such as Buck struggling to do a half-metre jump after the Chief v Locke fight in Halo 5 (which, I might add, had some quite lumbering showings for Spartans all-round bar the battle rifle smash)

Others like to say, that at 15 tonne lifting capacity, that they could effectively use a Warthog as a weapon and throw it around like a chew toy. This is a ridiculous statement; an M12 LRV weighs 3.5 tonnes! Do you really think that a professional wrestler has the strength to hurl this around like that? No, because I sure as hell can’t do that with my 20-15 kilogram weight plates I have in my house. In fact, it can even be straining to turn them over, without grappling it properly with a good purchase.

The following calc is rough, but genuine enough to comprehend the scope of this feat. A playable cinematic in Halo 4 demonstrates John as capable of launching himself about 2.5 metres vertically - in air decompression. The gee-force at this pressure would be immense; eyeballing the velocity that box achieved, this seems to apply an acceleration of 20ms^-2.

Assuming a 90 kilogram callisthenics athlete can launch himself 30 centimetres vertically, this would be 882 newtons thrown at a distance of .3 metres, giving us a total of 264.6 units.

Plugging in the numbers for John, he would a apply a force of 9,000 newtons crossing a distance of 2.5 metres, giving us a total of 22,500 units.

22,500 / 264.6 =85.6

Making John 85.6 times stronger than an Olympic athlete. If said athlete had an impressive physique like a Spartan, and could bench press 120 kilograms, John’s feat would allow for a 10.2 tonne bench press. Remember, this form of explosive power is not indicative 1:1 with lifting strength, as it is more the required strength to perform a feat. If the amount of weight you could lift correlated to this directly, then you could just throw yourself in the air using the elasticity of… a bottle jack or a crane, which obviously doesn’t happen.

Mongoose shattering feat - Halo: The Cole Protocol:

Halo: The Cole Protocol has an excerpt of the book where Spartan Adriana uses a 406kg mongoose akin to a steel chair. The resulting force caused the receiving Unggoy to pulverise and the frame of the vehicle to snap, implying impressive momentum applied by Adriana. In comparison to one of the most conventional weapons we could align it to, this seems to align well with the mutilation of the chitinous Unggoy carcass.

For reference, we will have a 1.8 metre professional wrestler holding a collapsed, 10 pound, 1 metre folding chair. To find the achieved distance of a complete 360 degree spin, we need to find the circumference.

C = 2 * Pi * r

C = 2 * Pi * (.9 + 1) [Centre of mass for the wrestler’s arm-span would be around 90 centimetres]

= 11.932 metres. Let’s round this up to 12 metres for simplicity’s sake.

In a 90 degree arc, let’s say he could slam this into someone’s head in a quarter of a second. This will mean that the man can bring down the chair at 12ms^-1. To find it’s acceleration, we will have to divide the velocity by the time taken:

12 / .25 = 48ms^-2

To find the force, we need to first find the force of gravity applied to it.
9.8 * 4.5 = 44.1 newtons of force.

To accelerate it at 48ms^-2 would require:

44.1 * 24 = 2,118.8N or 210 kilograms of force. scaling to such isn’t out of the question when determining Adriana’s force. Assuming she was achieving a similar acceleration (which is very likely the case, possibly higher), it would take approximately double the time to reach her targets, due to her accumulated circumference of more than 25 metres (she was likely holding the chassis by the push bumper).

Keep in mind, that the suspension of these vehicles can often withstand jumps potentially several metres in the air, with a half-ton Spartan at the handlebars, without warping the frame or popping the tires - yet she could accelerate it hard enough to do this almost instantly (once applying the force to the ground) - at half of the weight. If she were squarely relying on the force of gravity for it to be effective, it would never reach a sufficient force to dismantle the wheels at those heights, let alone snap the entire thing in half. To calculate the force, all we have to do is multiply this by the mass of the vehicle.

F=ma

m = 406 * 9.8 = 3978.8N

F = 3978.8N * 48ms^-2 = 190,982.4 newtons

This makes Adriana 90.2 times stronger than the professional wrestler.

Translating this to a bench press, we need to determine something of a similar manner. Professional wrestlers can lift as much as 140kg in bench press, and their physique is very well fit for using a steel chair as a weapon. Plugging in the numbers for her bench press-equivalent, this will come as a 12.6 tonne bench press.

It should be noted however, that she was under a surge of adrenaline, and that the applied force caused deep-layered capillarity ruptures - a fancy way of saying she’ll not want to do that again before a big breakfast (slamming the frame, mind you, hard enough to pop off the wheels and tear the whole thing in half would do that to a super-soldier). This number is rather malleable, I may add, and it may allow for more a ubiquitous range of strengths; possibly a little higher or lower, but nothing significantly lower.

3

Please do not post multiple times in a row, epicness898. You can always edit your first post if you have something to add. Bumping posts is also against the rules. Thanks.

4

> 2533274812650916;3:
> Please do not post multiple times in a row, epicness898. You can always edit your first post if you have something to add. Bumping posts is also against the rules. Thanks.

Alright then. I didn’t see a problem with it at the time (I was trying to prevent an unreadable wall of text), but I appreciate your courtesy.

In contrast to a Spartan-IV’s displayed strength feats:

“Liftoff”

MJONLIR GEN II’s integrated thruster system can be extremely useful for mid-jump navigational changes and EVA - however that is not the mere boundaries for what it is capable of. These thrusters can also perform a role as an additional force-multiplier; allowing for devastating blows that no mere flesh-and-bone individual could sustain.

Liftoff is an apt example of just how devastating a blow could become with these modules housed in the suit. In just two frames, the Spartan’s centre-mass achieved a distance of 3.4 centimetres, scaled from the 3.3 centimetre-length Spartan. For a 2-metre MJOLNIR-clad Spartan-IV, this would imply a distance achieved of around 206 centimetres, which looks to be accurate.

To reach a 2.06 metre distance in just 2 frames for a 24fps video implies a velocity of 24.72ms^-1. With a contact time of ~60 milliseconds, this Spartan would therefore be accelerated at:

24.72 / 0.06 = 412ms^-2.

Sourcing back to the Spartan’s force applied by gravity, to accelerate someone in a suit of MJOLNIR at 412ms^-2 would require:

3920 * 412 = 1,615,104.6N!

160 times harder than the most powerful kicks delivered in martial arts, and 60 percent stronger than Atriox’s punch he delivered in Halo Wars 2.

“Stop Stabbing Yourself”

This is another feat I found (1:21). A Spartan-IV throws another with a single arm. The time of contact was around 5 frames, and the other spartan accelerated from 4.6 centimetres in size, to 2.2 centimetres. For a 2 metre tall Spartan, this is a distance achieved of .96 metres in just 167 milliseconds, and a velocity of 5.73ms^-1.

As the burst achieved in his arm had a duration of 167 milliseconds, this would make for an acceleration of 34.3ms^2. If the Spartan in question is 400 kilograms, he would apply 3,920 newtons due to gravity.

3,920 * 34.3 = 134,443N

13.4 tonnes of force for a single arm - 20 times the explosive force of near “peak”-human physiology. Assuming a well-rounded array of feats, and converting this to the world’s greatest bench press of 487.6 kilograms (Ryan Kennelly), this would be 9.75 tonnes applied by the Spartan’s lateral muscle groups. Since this was only firing the muscles in the Spartan’s right arm (the left was merely used for a good purchase), this would sum to around a 19.5 tonne bench-press if he were to apply both - aligning itself nicely with the Monolith Push Feat delivered by John-117 in The Fall of Reach.

“The Kickoff”

Here, we see a Spartan IV strike at another’s centre-mass, launching him violently in the air and off a building. Slowing the video down, we see that a spartan measures 3.3cm for a 2m Spartan, meaning a scale of 0.6cm for every metre. In one frame, he moves a whole centimetre in one frame for a 24fps video - meaning he moved 60 centimetres in just 41 milliseconds, making a velocity achieved of 15ms^-1. The time of contact in a kick has a duration of around 66 milliseconds. To launch a carcass from 0 to 15ms^-1 in just 66 milliseconds would require an acceleration of:

15 / 0.66 = 227.27ms^-2.

A 400kg Spartan IV imparts approximately 3,920N on a 1G surface. to throw the MJOLNIR-clad body in the air, you would need to apply a quantity of newtons an additional 9.8 times the force of this of 38,416N. To determine the concluding force, we will multiply this number by the acceleration:

3920 * 227.27 = 890,898.4N!

85 times the kicking power of “peak”-human physiology. If he struck a 200 pound marine with this kick, he would accelerate to as much as 103 gees; launched with sufficient momentum to be capable of killing a man 10 fold simply from moving so fast (let alone being struck by the kick itself).

5

Can’t we just agree all Spartans are very strong? Hahah

6

I’m going to post this here, as I don’t enough room left at the top.

Sangheili Strength (In contrast to Spartans):
Thel 'Vadamee:

> Old post, but I’d like to give some scale for comparison here. When Hafthor Bjornsson broke the world record for the washing machine throw, he achieved an average acceleration of ~15.7m/s^2 to launch it at 5.62m/s (credit to Gojirason for that image), requiring an average force over the course of 0.36s of 711.2 newtons to throw the washing machine’s 45.3 kg weight. Assuming the distance Johnson was launched was around 6 meters rather than 8 (putting his velocity at 10 m/s and acceleration at 30 m/s^2 with the 110 kg weight Connor estimated), to account for all the bouncing and rolling, Thel would have achieved an average force of 3,300 newtons, nearly five times as much as World’s Sixth Strongest Man in a similar scenario, with one arm. Which is consistent with power-armored Elites being within the 2,000-2,500 kg range if the muscles he uses to throw are as strong relative to his others as Hafthor’s are.

Another old post, but this isn’t a good analogy. Unlike Hafthor’s advantage of upper-body strength, Thel would primarily be relying on his lateral muscle array of his triceps and latissimus dorsi firbres.

Experimenting on myself, I filled a large water bottle to a point when it became 1 percent of my total bench-press. Assuming I had similar body proportions, this should be the best analogy I can make.

Recording my throw (similar as possible to the angle and positioning as Thel’s), then measuring the distance with a tape measure, the bottle reached a 12.8 metre distance in about 1.35 seconds - making a velocity of 9.48ms^-1., and acceleration of around 28.5ms^-2. In totality, the force applied came as 3.5 times less than my three-rep bench-press.

Plugging in the numbers for Arbiter, he threw a 110 kilogram marine at 30ms^-2 by your estimate. This would in totality be 27.8 percent less than his bench-press, with an applied force of 32,340 newtons. This, conclusively, would make him capable with both arms apply an upthrust of 116,330 newtons, or 11.87 tonnes.

Jiralhanae Strength (In Contrast to Spartans):
Atriox:

Another feat at 1:18 has a very impressive display of strength from Atriox’s elbow nudge to Jerome-092.

Slowing the video down once more, the time of contact in the nudge was 250 milliseconds, and Jerome’s centre-mass achieved a 3 metre distance in just 363 miliseconds - meaning he went from 0 to 8.2ms^-1 in a quarter of a second.

Acceleration = v / t
= 8.2 / .25
=33ms^-2

Which looks about right when comparing this to Hafthor’s washing machine throw, which from my measurements reached a 3 metre distance in 0.77 seconds, with his time of contact being around 260 milliseconds.

On the Ark, Jerome’s force applied by gravity is about 4410 newtons. To supersede this force with an acceleration of 33ms^-2 would require Atriox’s arm to impart:

4410 * 28 = 145,530 Newtons.

The force applied was more of a pulling motion than a push - which is typically 33 percent stronger. With both arms - this would now imply Atriox’s bench-press as 387,109.8N - effortlessly. Comparing this to Ryan Kennelly’s upthrust force of 4,778.5N would make Atriox 81 times stronger, and easily capable of bench-pressing 38 tonnes.

To reinforce these calcs with more clarity, let’s take a few steps back and see what he’s doing - this would imply that the weight of the Spartan would be to you or I a 1 kilogram medicine ball, or a weaker human would a 1.4 kilogram ball - which looks very much like how he treats the Spartan’s weight anyway.

Interesting Feat for Jiralhanae Speed (Said to be a match for Spartan-IIs):

Fortunately, there are video sources as to how strong the average brute is, and thanks to Halo Wars 2, we see a Type-2 Gravity Hammer thrown like a tomahawk in the background of where Decimus arrests the momentum of some Sangheili (2:52).

2:45 Also demonstrates the punching speed of Jiralhanae; moving fast enough to strike at a Sangheili mid-jump. Fortunately, his fist is nearly perfectly aligned underneath the Elite’s blade, so scaling is much easier to achieve.

The energy sword from point-to-gauntlet measures 5.2cm. As the length of this particular sword is canonically given as 131.7cm, this gives a size ratio of approximately 1:25. in one frame for a 29fps video, the Brute’s arm travels around 6.5 centimetres; rendering a distance achieved of 1.65 metres, which appears to be accurate.

For the average human, a fully retracted punch that includes a twist of their upper-body (much like the performed feat here) achieves a distance of approximately 62.8 percent of their height, and for the height range of 260-280 centimetres for Jiralhanae, this would render a distance of at least 163.28 centimetres - nearly perfectly aligned with my estimate.

The brute moves his arm 1.646 metres in a 29th of a second, meaning his fists achieved a velocity of:

1.646 / 0.0345 = 47.7ms^-2

3.57 times the peak velocity of Ricky Hatton, and 5 times the speed of his average punches. The average male can punch at around 9.14ms^-1. For more contrast, this is what ~12-13ms^-1 looks like.

Rendering a punching speed more than 5 times faster than an average human’s. Take note that this was a left-handed punch, meaning that some brutes could easily move as much as 6 times faster than a regular human; this would also stack-up well with them matching the speed of John-117. Theoretically, this should also allow them to punch with 175 times more kinetic energy than a regular human due to their considerable mass - which actually stands up well with some of their given strength feats anyway.

More speed/reaction time feats for Spartans and Jiralhanae:

O’Brien shoots an Unngoy about 10 metres away with a subsonic machine gun. Immediately after firing, a Jiralhanae Chieftain ambushes the ODST to club him to death - before his hammer is abruptly caught by Cal-141, saving the Marine.

Notice how he fires his M7S right before the Chieftan strikes, and the round impacts the Grunt well after Cal had already caught the hammer; it’s even accentuated with sound effects.

7

Edited the calcs for more refined numbers.

Halo 4 includes a scene where John-117 needs to initiate a launch for a HYPERION missile system. To do this, he manually reactivates the magnetically-accelerated hammer by physically kicking it across the sliding apparatus (10:55). However, one must notice how the accelerator only activates once he kicks it with a considerably high amount of force - meaning the previous work done on the hammer was all from raw muscle (take note of the sparks, meaning that there was little to no torque to assist his effort). His shove also accelerated it 2-3 times the speed of what pushing it with maximum effort would do, which would make up for lower-end interpretations.

Objects in space may not have weight, but they have mass. The coefficient of friction for steel-on-steel is around .6 units. In a vacuum, there is no air to intensify this friction, and there would be as little as 0.2µ in actuality for John to move the hammer alongside.

Eyeballing it, the hammer looks to be 2 metres high, 2 wide, and 3 long. With the density of titanium, this hammer should weigh upwards of 54 tonnes. As it is a hammer, there would be much emphasis on the rigidity of it, and assuming it as being significantly hollow is non-sequential (especially given how the mechanism is aligned at the top, and therefore doesn’t need to compensate for primary firing armatures). Despite this, I will assume the density is of titanium, even though hammers are typically as high density as steel (8T/M^3) over titanium’s 4.5T/M^3.

To bypass the coefficient of friction applied on the hammer, John would need approximately a boulder-pushing strength of:

54,000 * 0.2 = 10.8 tonnes of force.

For contrast, 1 tonne of force would knock an Elk on it’s -Yoink-. More than 16 tonnes and you’re looking at sending armoured Jiralhanae flying, which stacks up well with what Spartans can do in both gameplay (Punching other Spartans high in the air) and Halo Wars 2 GC cutscenes (upper-cutting armoured Banished Jiralhanae and sending them sailing). He also hijacks brute-controlled choppers, ghosts and prowlers in Halo 3 - kicking them violently off of their vehicles.

This is beginning to become rather consistent, and having a Spartan’s strength range well in to double-digit tonne range, in terms of lifting strength. I also believe there was some degree of an atmosphere in that scene, which may increase the coefficient of friction applied on the hammer - potentially to a significant degree.

This (3:33) is a scene in Halo Wars 2 where Jerome launches a 1 metric tonne Jiralhanae with a single arm, (interestingly) attaining a counterbalance by yanking the chops of another Warlord. Take note: this is, in actuality, an extended melee throw; the form applied allows the Spartan to travel his arm along a notable portion of it’s parabola for sustained leverage.

As the video jumps from slow to fast motion rapidly, it is difficult to determine the acceleration achieved. Had Jerome barged into the Brute with similar acceleration to Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson’s famous washing machine throw (which it seems closely aligned with), he would be throwing a 1-tonne Jiralhanae with approximately 25 times the force of the strongman, with just his right lateral muscle groups available for Jerome’s upper-body. With both of his arms, this would be roughly 50 times stronger.

Converting a 300kg strongman bench press for Jerome would make him capable of lifting 15 metric tonnes under similar circumstances.

Note: As for how brief the duration of his “warm-up” was when compared to Hafþór’s, all this means is that his muscles can contract to their peak force in a much shorter time span than a regular human, which isn’t too far of a stretch; considering automated machines can replicate that attitude today.

This is a calculation of the punch Jerome delivered to a Sangheili in the same scene:

> DarkMagic, post: 37416227, member: 350195:
> I’m going to have an attempt to calculate Jerome’s hook punch from this scene from Halo War 2. But I’m only going the calculate the time it took the sangeheili to flew this distance and not the actual full distance, due to the difficult camera angle.
>
> cOvj6rYyVSo
> The sangehili flew 1225 pixels or 2.34x his height. Considering the average sangehili is 2.4 meters, the distance 5.62 meters. It flew this distance at 0.26 seconds which translates 21.62 m/s. To take the sangehili from zero to 21.62 m/s in just 0.26 seconds would require the following acceleration:
>
> a = change in velocity / time
> 21.62/0.26 = 83.15m/s^2
>
> Using the average weight of a naked saneghili it would require the following force:
>
> F = mass x acceleration
> F= 158.5kg x 83.15m/s^2 = 13179.28 newtons
>
> Though keep in mind that A) This is the naked sangehili body weight I used and B) The sangehili body would’ve absorbed kinetic energy from the punch so the force from the punch could’ve easily exceed that.

This is something I’d like to address, as it seems to be a recurring misconception from people. Calculating the force an object can accelerate also requires you to multiply the mass by the force of gravity. Otherwise, you get numbers where the punch of heavyweight boxers would easily throw people around every time they punch someone. If this were the case, then MMA fighters on television that can generate as a tonne of force would consistently send people sailing like what Captain America does all the time - they do not. Instead, the best they can do is merely stagger their opponent backwards. The Jiralhanae fight scene however, is a little more of a genuine strength feat, as it seems like he hefted it’s bodyweight with the muzzle of his shotgun.

For more reference, a 110 kilo football player accelerating at around 25.5ms^-2 would have a force of 1078 newtons applied to him on Earth. Upon contact with someone, he would slam into them with a whopping 27,489 newtons of force, nearly six times the power of the hardest punches dished out by heavyweight boxers - this, is the kind of energy you need to throw someone off of their feet; About 5-6 times more force than the hardest hitters in the UFC. Jerome punching something twice a human’s weight across a room? Far, far more force than even that.

We can make a decent guess of how hard he hits compared to a normal human. Thankfully, you’ve already done most of the calc, so I only need to multiply the Sangheili’s weight by around 9.8 times.

F̶ ̶=̶ ̶(̶1̶5̶8̶.̶5̶ ̶̶ ̶9̶.̶8̶)̶ ̶̶ ̶8̶3̶.̶1̶5̶ ̶=̶ ̶1̶2̶9̶,̶1̶5̶6̶.̶8̶9̶5̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶t̶o̶n̶s̶

EDIT: You also didn’t account for the fact that the time of contact is where you determine the acceleration, not the time taken to travel that distance. After all, it only reaches that velocity due to such. Ergo, it would look more like this:

= (158.5 * 9.8) * (21.62 / 0.06) = 559,705N

So, around 100 times stronger than the most elite of boxers. This, of course, means that their physiology isn’t as rounded as I believed it to be, and would actually line up much better with his Warlord toss with some reasonable assumptions of an elite boxer’s bench-press at this kind of punching power.

8

The problem with these types of calculations is that one often forgets this: animators are not physicians.
Not everything in a video should be calculated seriously especially when the answers contradict other material and created all sorts of inconsistencies.
Also I’ve never seen a Spartan jump 45 ft.
Current Spartans are supposed to be in the 2-3 tonne range. They are most definitely not 10 tonners. If it were the case they would be able to lift 3 warthogs on top of one another. Even Brutes get crushed under the weigh of 1 warthog and most definitely don’t have the strength to lift 2.

9

> 2533275013370605;8:
> The problem with these types of calculations is that one often forgets this: animators are not physicians.
> Not everything in a video should be calculated seriously especially when the answers contradict other material and created all sorts of inconsistencies.
> Also I’ve never seen a Spartan jump 45 ft.
> Current Spartans are supposed to be in tFhe 2-3 tonne range. They are most definitely not 10 tonners. If it were the case they would be able to lift 3 warthogs on top of one another. Even Brutes get crushed under the weigh of 1 warthog and most definitely don’t have the strength to lift 2.

Frankie has made it clear that the abilities seen in the games are canonical. He stated that, during the developer commentary for The Babysitter, that the gameplay abilities were built as a representation of both new abilities for gameplay and canon.

This isn’t unheard of recently either. 343 did this for the new Spartan abilites in Halo 5, and there was a cinematic depiction of Master Chief kicking a Jiralhanae off of it’s ghost in Halo 2, and a common gameplay element for Halo 3 - something impossible for someone who can lift two tonnes to be capable of.

As a matter of fact, the two tonne range simply comes from powerscaling and is merely fan speculation. Speaking to Grimbrotheone about Scorpion flipping has had him respond with it being very much a possibility, and likewise stacks up very well with the feats I have compiled for them.

I also don’t understand what you’re going on about with warthogs. We’ve never really seen Spartans do much to them besides easily turn them over, so what’s making you think they can’t do more than that - especially with feats from games, books and other media, as well as repeated descriptions by 343 to support it?

Brutes, on the other hand, backhand cars and buses in Halo 3: ODST on a regular basis - this isn’t something you just accidentally implement into the game. Even with those non-gamebreaking elements, Bungie were meticulous enough to remove the Warthog’s chassis bouncing around when meleed by a Shock Trooper.

I have 12 sources that directly imply this kind of strength (either in the range of 12-20 tonnes or at least far beyond two tonnes) and 6 that support it with other species such as Brutes, Elites, and Promethean Soldiers; and I still haven’t covered all of them that are in this ballpark.

10

> 2533274927111211;9:
> > 2533275013370605;8:
> > The problem with these types of calculations is that one often forgets this: animators are not physicians.
> > Not everything in a video should be calculated seriously especially when the answers contradict other material and created all sorts of inconsistencies.
> > Also I’ve never seen a Spartan jump 45 ft.
> > Current Spartans are supposed to be in tFhe 2-3 tonne range. They are most definitely not 10 tonners. If it were the case they would be able to lift 3 warthogs on top of one another. Even Brutes get crushed under the weigh of 1 warthog and most definitely don’t have the strength to lift 2.
>
> Frankie has made it clear that the abilities seen in the games are canonical. He stated that, during the developer commentary for The Babysitter, that the gameplay abilities were built as a representation of both new abilities for gameplay and canon.
>
> This isn’t unheard of recently either. 343 did this for the new Spartan abilites in Halo 5, and there was a cinematic depiction of Master Chief kicking a Jiralhanae off of it’s ghost in Halo 2, and a common gameplay element for Halo 3 - something impossible for someone who can lift two tonnes to be capable of.
>
> As a matter of fact, the two tonne range simply comes from powerscaling and is merely fan speculation. Speaking to Grimbrotheone about Scorpion flipping has had him respond with it being very much a possibility, and likewise stacks up very well with the feats I have compiled for them.
>
> I also don’t understand what you’re going on about with warthogs. We’ve never really seen Spartans do much to them besides easily turn them over, so what’s making you think they can’t do more than that - especially with feats from games, books and other media, as well as repeated descriptions by 343 to support it?
>
> Brutes, on the other hand, backhand cars and buses in Halo 3: ODST on a regular basis - this isn’t something you just accidentally implement into the game. Even with those non-gamebreaking elements, Bungie were meticulous enough to remove the Warthog’s chassis bouncing around when meleed by a Shock Trooper.
>
> I have 12 sources that directly imply this kind of strength (either in the range of 10-18 tonnes or at least far beyond two tonnes) and 6 that support it with other species such as Brutes, Elites, and Promethean Soldiers; and I still haven’t covered all of them that are in this ballpark.

And like I’ve said before if Word or God contradicts what we see and read then we disregard Word of God. Spartans have never displayed any feats that come close to flipping a 66 tonne Tank. Even Fred can only stalemate an Aggressor Sentinel.

A brute weighs 510 - 680 kg, for someone with 2-3 tonne strength kicking them off a vehicle is very possible.

The 2-3 tonne strength comes from using the rough formula Nylund gave us back in The Fall of Reach and matching it up with various feats. There are no feats that correlate with a 10 tonne strength.

Gameplay =/= canon.
I use warthogs because we know their weight and know that a S2 in Mark 5 can flip one. Also because why not.

Bungie was not meticulous enough to stop ODST from flipping Warthogs and Tanks. I know it was for gameplay reasons, but that’s my point Gameplay =/= canon.
If a Spartan ever flips a tank in a novel, comic, cutscene or movie only then will I accept it.

11

> 2533275013370605;10:
> > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > >
>
> And like I’ve said before if Word or God contradicts what we see and read then we disregard Word of God. Spartans have never displayed any feats that come close to flipping a 66 tonne Tank. Even Fred can only stalemate an Aggressor Sentinel.
>
> A brute weighs 510 - 680 kg, for someone with 2-3 tonne strength kicking them off a vehicle is very possible.
>
> The 2-3 tonne strength comes from using the rough formula Nylund gave us back in The Fall of Reach and matching it up with various feats. There are no feats that correlate with a 10 tonne strength.
>
> Gameplay =/= canon.
> I use warthogs because we know their weight and know that a S2 in Mark 5 can flip one. Also because why not.
>
> Bungie was not meticulous enough to stop ODST from flipping Warthogs and Tanks. I know it was for gameplay reasons, but that’s my point Gameplay =/= canon.
> If a Spartan ever flips a tank in a novel, comic, cutscene or movie only then will I accept it.

I’ve just shown you many, many sources as to why they are indeed that strong - word of god(s) doesn’t contradict them at all, it complements them.

So? Why does that overrule what they have done? All that means is that the car-sized Sentinel is much more physically powerful than you thought. And yes, actually - Nylund’s very book has a feat that puts them in the 10 tonne range, armoured (I calced it above). I wouldn’t use numbers that have been overly contradicted both by sources and word of god. Baymax in Big Hero 6 is an apt representation of this.

And no, Jiralhanae power armour weighs an additional 500 kilograms, yet he still does it as an ample feat in Halo 3. I’ve already brought up the notions as to why they wouldn’t just remove certain gameplay abilities, yet they removed ones that were cosmetic only.

There are more than a dozen sources that contradict what was said as a passing comment 17 years ago, yet this is the go-to statement for everyone? Also I’ve already discussed how frivolous powerscaling can become, so I wouldn’t use that as an example - my sources are all from armoured Spartans, who are not just simply the strength of an unarmoured Spartan x5, or x2, depending on what you’re looking at.

Spartans are a lot stronger than you’re allowing yourself to admit. I have proven with time and consideration that they have demonstrated over and over to be this strong, yet apparently those are just non-canon or something. Are you seriously going to disregard 12(there are a handful more) sources for one that has them out of their armour?

Here are a handful of them:

  • Punching apart a Wraith column - Halo: Reach - Unearthing a 600-1000kg SOEIV (inside a swamp so thick an ODST had trouble walking in it) - Halo Legends - The Babysitter - Using a Mongoose as a melee weapon, so hard as to violently dismantle it (the same vehicle that can survive considerably high jumps with a 1000 pound Spartan at the handlebars) - Halo: The Cole Protocol - Prying open a blast door with air decompression on the other side - Halo 4 - Reactivating a HYPERION missile system - Halo 4 - Kicking Brutes that weigh as much as a car out of their vehicles - Halo 3 - Sending Brutes flying yet again in hand-to-hand during CG cutscenes - Halo Wars 2 - Jumping at a sufficient height to skyjack a Banshee - I Know You trailer - 3 Spartans pushing a 140 tonne monolith - Halo: The Fall of Reach - Implied tank-flipping ballpark (Frank O’Connor, Halo Legends: The Babysitter Commentary) - …Implied tank-flipping ballpark (@GrimBrotherOne) - Treating a titanium BR85 like a Ukelele (Halo 5)
12

> 2533274927111211;11:
> > 2533275013370605;10:
> > > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > > >
>
> I’ve just shown you many, many sources as to why they are indeed that strong - word of god(s) doesn’t contradict them at all, it complements them.
>
> So? Why does that overrule what they have done? All that means is that the car-sized Sentinel is much more physically powerful than you thought. And yes, actually - Nylund’s very book has a feat that puts them in the 10 tonne range, armoured (I calced it above). I wouldn’t use numbers that have been overly contradicted both by sources and word of god. Baymax in Big Hero 6 is an apt representation of this.
>
> And no, Jiralhanae power armour weighs an additional 500 kilograms, yet he still does it as an ample feat in Halo 3. I’ve already brought up the notions as to why they wouldn’t just remove certain gameplay abilities, yet they removed ones that were cosmetic only.
>
> There are more than a dozen sources that contradict what was said as a passing comment 17 years ago, yet this is the go-to statement for everyone? Also I’ve already discussed how frivolous powerscaling can become, so I wouldn’t use that as an example - my sources are all from armoured Spartans, who are not just simply the strength of an unarmoured Spartan x5, or x2, depending on what you’re looking at.
>
> Spartans are a lot stronger than you’re allowing yourself to admit. I have proven with time and consideration that they have demonstrated over and over to be this strong, yet apparently those are just non-canon or something. Are you seriously going to disregard 12(there are a handful more) sources for one that has them out of their armour?
>
> Here are a handful of them:
>
>
> - Punching apart a Wraith column - Halo: Reach - Unearthing a 600-1000kg SOEIV (inside a swamp so thick an ODST had trouble walking in it) - Halo Legends - The Babysitter - Using a Mongoose as a melee weapon, so hard as to violently dismantle it (the same vehicle that can survive considerably high jumps with a 1000 pound Spartan at the handlebars) - Halo: The Cole Protocol - Prying open a blast door with air decompression on the other side - Halo 4 - Reactivating a HYPERION missile system - Halo 4 - Kicking Brutes that weigh as much as a car out of their vehicles - Halo 3 - Sending Brutes flying yet again in hand-to-hand during CG cutscenes - Halo Wars 2 - Jumping at a sufficient height to skyjack a Banshee - I Know You trailer - 3 Spartans pushing a 140 tonne monolith - Halo: The Fall of Reach - Implied tank-flipping ballpark (Frank O’Connor, Halo Legends: The Babysitter Commentary) - …Implied tank-flipping ballpark (@GrimBrotherOne)

All of your sources are really sketchy as you make many assumptions based on what it ‘looks’ like, as such I can’t take it soo seriously.
Even your calculations don’t add up since you calculated 10 tonnes for the monolith feat and yet you also calculated that it would require at least a 17 tonne strength for the Tank (which at the time of Frankie’s statement was 66 tonnes).

Its not so much that it overrules them, but we have to keep things consistant in order to obtain the most accurate conclusion hence if huge outliers pop up they are generally disregarded.
An Aggressor sentinel is hardly car sized.
Likewise I wouldn’t use numbers that would cause enormous inconsistencies in all other feats.

Sources for Brute armour weight? Halopedia says nothing on this.

A dozen eh?
Look, I am well aware that no one is paying too much attention to that statement anymore as its too old, besides this was a formula for when they were 14. Though Halo Envoy does have a feat where Adrianna kicks an Elite 50 metres away, which considering she has Mark 6 would roughly maintain continuity with John’s feat of kicking a Mark 1 user 8 metres away. Problem is that feats like that are far and few between.
Fair enough on the powerscaling though.

If Spartans were consistently that strong we wouldn’t have a problem, but they are not and so we do.

-Punching a wraith? Where? What cutscene in Reach?
-That feat is indeed impressive, but it comes from Halo Legends which is notorious for its inaccuracies and cosmetic nonsense. As such many people simply consider the events to have happened but not necessarily as depicted.
-A mongoose is 300 kg and Adrianna herself couldn’t keep it up for long as she would cause damage to her body.
-I have no idea how impressive this feat is, for all I know a 3 tonne strength is enough.
-We’ve talked about this.
-We’ve talked about this too.
-That i’ll give you since its in a cutscene. But at that point Jerome has Gen2/Mark 4 hybrid so such a feat would be possible. Also the gun should have broke.
-We never saw him/her jump so we cannot assume how he/she got there. It would be fallacious to do so.
-Fan calcs, oh me oh my.
-We’ve talked about this as well.
-Ditto.

13

> 2533275013370605;12:
> > 2533274927111211;11:
> > > 2533275013370605;10:
> > > > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > > > >
>
> Its not so much that it overrules them, but we have to keep things consistant in order to obtain the most accurate conclusion hence if huge outliers pop up they are generally disregarded.
> An Aggressor sentinel is hardly car sized.
> Likewise I wouldn’t use numbers that would cause enormous inconsistencies in all other feats.
>
> Sources for Brute armour weight? Halopedia says nothing on this.
>
> A dozen eh?
> Look, I am well aware that no one is paying too much attention to that statement anymore as its too old, besides this was a formula for when they were 14. Though Halo Envoy does have a feat where Adrianna kicks an Elite 50 metres away, which considering she has Mark 6 would roughly maintain continuity with John’s feat of kicking a Mark 1 user 8 metres away. Problem is that feats like that are far and few between.
> Fair enough on the powerscaling though.
>
> If Spartans were consistently that strong we wouldn’t have a problem, but they are not and so we do.
>
> -Punching a wraith? Where? What cutscene in Reach?
> -That feat is indeed impressive, but it comes from Halo Legends which is notorious for its inaccuracies and cosmetic nonsense. As such many people simply consider the events to have happened but not necessarily as depicted.
> -A mongoose is 300 kg and Adrianna herself couldn’t keep it up for long as she would cause damage to her body.
> -I have no idea how impressive this feat is, for all I know a 3 tonne strength is enough.
> -We’ve talked about this.
> -We’ve talked about this too.
> -That i’ll give you since its in a cutscene. But at that point Jerome has Gen2/Mark 4 hybrid so such a feat would be possible. Also the gun should have broke.
> -We never saw him/her jump so we cannot assume how he/she got there. It would be fallacious to do so.
> -Fan calcs, oh me oh my.
> -We’ve talked about this as well.
> -Ditto.

  • Already shown you, as you know.

  • It’s backed from Frank O’Connor, and nowhere has anyone from 343 stated it was exaggerared.

  • Irrelevant. Slamming something hard enough on the ground will do that to you, no matter the weight. Also, Mongooses are more than 400kg, and using it effectivlely as a weapon would require it to be much less than a fifth of your max bench to make it thrown hard and fast enough to snap the entite thing in half.

  • I seriously doubt that. If it’s strong enough to launch heavy machinery with enough momentum to knock the Master Chief over, that’s a seriously impressive strength feat.

  • Mr Nylund made it clear as to how this played out. As he in particular is not alien to the concept of a scientifically grounded narrative, it’s not so much of a fan calc as others.

  • We know what his hybrid looks like, and that’s not it. The fact that the gun didn’t break doesn’t make this less impressive

  • Given it’s a cinematic depiction of what they do in the games, it’s not as fallicous as you think.

  • Also added Master Chief smashing a hardened BR85. Also, having a malleablility like glass isn’t nonsequencial by any stretch, if anything that would allow the rifle to fire more rounds without warping the barrel.

look at the dimensions of an Agressor Sentinel on Halopedia - they’re bigger than you think.

…Sketchy?

14

> 2533274927111211;13:
> > 2533275013370605;12:
> > > 2533274927111211;11:
> > > > 2533275013370605;10:
> > > > > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > > > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > > > > >
> >
> > Its not so much that it overrules them, but we have to keep things consistant in order to obtain the most accurate conclusion hence if huge outliers pop up they are generally disregarded.
> > An Aggressor sentinel is hardly car sized.
> > Likewise I wouldn’t use numbers that would cause enormous inconsistencies in all other feats.
> >
> > Sources for Brute armour weight? Halopedia says nothing on this.
> >
> > A dozen eh?
> > Look, I am well aware that no one is paying too much attention to that statement anymore as its too old, besides this was a formula for when they were 14. Though Halo Envoy does have a feat where Adrianna kicks an Elite 50 metres away, which considering she has Mark 6 would roughly maintain continuity with John’s feat of kicking a Mark 1 user 8 metres away. Problem is that feats like that are far and few between.
> > Fair enough on the powerscaling though.
> >
> > If Spartans were consistently that strong we wouldn’t have a problem, but they are not and so we do.
> >
> > -Punching a wraith? Where? What cutscene in Reach?
> > -That feat is indeed impressive, but it comes from Halo Legends which is notorious for its inaccuracies and cosmetic nonsense. As such many people simply consider the events to have happened but not necessarily as depicted.
> > -A mongoose is 300 kg and Adrianna herself couldn’t keep it up for long as she would cause damage to her body.
> > -I have no idea how impressive this feat is, for all I know a 3 tonne strength is enough.
> > -We’ve talked about this.
> > -We’ve talked about this too.
> > -That i’ll give you since its in a cutscene. But at that point Jerome has Gen2/Mark 4 hybrid so such a feat would be possible. Also the gun should have broke.
> > -We never saw him/her jump so we cannot assume how he/she got there. It would be fallacious to do so.
> > -Fan calcs, oh me oh my.
> > -We’ve talked about this as well.
> > -Ditto.
>
> - Already shown you, as you know.
>
> - It’s backed from Frank O’Connor, and nowhere has anyone from 343 stated it was exaggerared.
>
> - Irrelevant. Slamming something hard enough on the ground will do that to you, no matter the weight. Also, Mongooses are more than 400kg, and using it effectivlely as a weapon would require it to be much less than a fifth of your max bench to make it thrown hard and fast enough to snap the entite thing in half.
>
> - I seriously doubt that. If it’s strong enough to launch heavy machinery with enough momentum to knock the Master Chief over, that’s a seriously impressive strength feat.
>
> - Mr Nylund made it clear as to how this played out. As he in particular is not alien to the concept of a scientifically grounded narrative, it’s not so much of a fan calc as others.
>
> -
>
> - We know what his hybrid looks like, and that’s not it. The fact that the gun didn’t break doesn’t make this less impressive
>
> - Given it’s a cinematic depiction of what they do in the games, it’s not as fallicous as you think.
>
> - Also added Master Chief smashing a hardened BR85. Also, having a malleablility like glass isn’t nonsequencial by any stretch, if anything that would allow the rifle to fire more rounds without warping the barrel.
>
> look at the dimensions of an Agressor Sentinel on Halopedia - they’re bigger than you think.
>
> …Sketchy?

-Ok, but as I’ve said he punched the Wraith in the unarmoured area which is feasible for Spartans.

-No one said that the cosmetics were exaggerated either, but we know they are.

-If she was straining herself by using the mongoose as a weapon then yes it was exceeding her strength capacity as a stronger individual would be able to keep going for longer. Also you are right about the weight being 406 kg.

-Considering we don’t know how impressive it is for all I know 3 tonne strength is enough. Also sending Chief tumbling isn’t particularly hard considering he weighs half a tonne and if being hit by a container travelling at high speed + decompression. My point is its hard to quantify.

-Since when has Nylund mentioned anything about a Hyperion missile system.

-?

-They probably just didn’t want to make 2 CGI models for Jerome. There is a lot of evidence to back up that he is using a new suit: He can put a Smart AI in his suit, something Mark 4 never had; he can go toe to toe with multiple Brute in CQC, something John couldn’t do in Mark 5 where it is clearly shown that Brute are stronger than Spartans in Mark 5. The gun not breaking makes me take the scene less seriously.

-Spartans cannot jump that high. In game they use thrusters to reach the Banshees. Its the only explanation that makes sense.

-I have no problems with Spartans breaking weapons.

-Halopedia states: 1.5m tall, 2.9m long, 1.9m wide. That’s a very small car.

Sketchy because you use game mechanics to justify your claims and make calculations based on scenarios that are not always quantifiable.

15

> 2533275013370605;14:
> > 2533274927111211;13:
> > > 2533275013370605;12:
> > > > 2533274927111211;11:
> > > > > 2533275013370605;10:
> > > > > > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > > > > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > > > > > >
>
> -Ok, but as I’ve said he punched the Wraith in the unarmoured area which is feasible for Spartans.
>
> -No one said that the cosmetics were exaggerated either, but we know they are.
>
> -If she was straining herself by using the mongoose as a weapon then yes it was exceeding her strength capacity as a stronger individual would be able to keep going for longer. Also you are right about the weight being 406 kg.
>
> -Considering we don’t know how impressive it is for all I know 3 tonne strength is enough. Also sending Chief tumbling isn’t particularly hard considering he weighs half a tonne and if being hit by a container travelling at high speed + decompression. My point is its hard to quantify.
>
> -Since when has Nylund mentioned anything about a Hyperion missile system.
>
> -?
>
> -They probably just didn’t want to make 2 CGI models for Jerome. There is a lot of evidence to back up that he is using a new suit: He can put a Smart AI in his suit, something Mark 4 never had; he can go toe to toe with multiple Brute in CQC, something John couldn’t do in Mark 5 where it is clearly shown that Brute are stronger than Spartans in Mark 5. The gun not breaking makes me take the scene less seriously.
>
> -Spartans cannot jump that high. In game they use thrusters to reach the Banshees. Its the only explanation that makes sense.
>
> -I have no problems with Spartans breaking weapons.
>
> -Halopedia states: 1.5m tall, 2.9m long, 1.9m wide. That’s a very small car.
>
> Sketchy because you use game mechanics to justify your claims and make calculations based on scenarios that are not always quantifiable.

Punching apart a Wraith column would also require strength far beyond whatever a Silverback Gorilla could muster, which is the range that you’re implying. Cosmetics were addressed as an exaggeration by Frankie, yes, yet he likewise pointed out that that throw wasn’t “out of the bounds of reason”. It wasn’t throwing around the Mongoose that made Adriana strain, it was using it hard enough to warp and snap the entire chassis, pop the wheels off, and slam it into Unggoy so hard they eviscerated. From personal experience, I know that punching someone hard enough can damage your own muscle tissue from the impact.

It isn’t. To accelerate a ~100 kilogram crate like that with sufficient velocity to knock the chief over would require about two tonnes of force alone (the weight of the crate/machine itself is irrelevant if it does that anyway). Then, you have to account for how the air pressure would be the most intense when opening the door itself (next to the whole thing being open, which would have the least amount of pressure), as well as how hard it would be to pry open a large blast door like that anyway. That’s far beyond even 3 tonnes.

I was referring to pushing the monolith, sorry.

Thrusters do not significantly enhance the jump height of Spartans. As Grim put it, they are used more for EVA, as well as mid-directional evasion and displacement (something that would be very useful for skyjacking Banshees). Osiris also can jump 2-3 stories high without using their thrusters when given commands by Locke in the campaign. This is something that needs to be addressed to people: Game mechanics in a general sense are used to both canonically emulate the abilities of Spartans (as described by Frankie) as well as introduce new abilities for the player. If this weren’t the case, then Bungie and 343 wouldn’t bother making such cinematic approaches to these during their E3 presentations (eg hijacking Brute-controlled ghosts in the Halo 2 trailer, or spartan abilities in Halo 5’s).

What isn’t so much of a canonical representation, are the specific balancing moments in gameplay, like Promethean Knights being affected greatly by UNSC ammunition. You should have a problem with them breaking weapons like that though, because what he just did is more akin to an Elephant’s strength level over a Gorilla’s.

It’s still rather large, and when taking into account how they are solid over a car’s roomy interior, these things will also be very heavy. Sketchy is pretty harsh a word though, I’m simply providing sources from what is seen in Halo regarding strength, as well as what 343 have provided regarding it. If this doesn’t qualify, then what does in your mind? I’m a little confused as to what your metric is.

16

This is an extremely interesting forum.

17

> 2533274927111211;15:
> > 2533275013370605;14:
> > > 2533274927111211;13:
> > > > 2533275013370605;12:
> > > > > 2533274927111211;11:
> > > > > > 2533275013370605;10:
> > > > > > > 2533274927111211;9:
> > > > > > > > 2533275013370605;8:
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > -Ok, but as I’ve said he punched the Wraith in the unarmoured area which is feasible for Spartans.
> >
> > -No one said that the cosmetics were exaggerated either, but we know they are.
> >
> > -If she was straining herself by using the mongoose as a weapon then yes it was exceeding her strength capacity as a stronger individual would be able to keep going for longer. Also you are right about the weight being 406 kg.
> >
> > -Considering we don’t know how impressive it is for all I know 3 tonne strength is enough. Also sending Chief tumbling isn’t particularly hard considering he weighs half a tonne and if being hit by a container travelling at high speed + decompression. My point is its hard to quantify.
> >
> > -Since when has Nylund mentioned anything about a Hyperion missile system.
> >
> > -?
> >
> > -They probably just didn’t want to make 2 CGI models for Jerome. There is a lot of evidence to back up that he is using a new suit: He can put a Smart AI in his suit, something Mark 4 never had; he can go toe to toe with multiple Brute in CQC, something John couldn’t do in Mark 5 where it is clearly shown that Brute are stronger than Spartans in Mark 5. The gun not breaking makes me take the scene less seriously.
> >
> > -Spartans cannot jump that high. In game they use thrusters to reach the Banshees. Its the only explanation that makes sense.
> >
> > -I have no problems with Spartans breaking weapons.
> >
> > -Halopedia states: 1.5m tall, 2.9m long, 1.9m wide. That’s a very small car.
> >
> > Sketchy because you use game mechanics to justify your claims and make calculations based on scenarios that are not always quantifiable.
>
> Punching apart a Wraith column would also require strength far beyond whatever a Silverback Gorilla could muster, which is the range that you’re implying. Cosmetics were addressed as an exaggeration by Frankie, yes, yet he likewise pointed out that that throw wasn’t “out of the bounds of reason”. It wasn’t throwing around the Mongoose that made Adriana strain, it was using it hard enough to warp and snap the entire chassis, pop the wheels off, and slam it into Unggoy so hard they eviscerated. From personal experience, I know that punching someone hard enough can damage your own muscle tissue from the impact.
>
> It isn’t. To accelerate a ~100 kilogram crate like that with sufficient velocity to knock the chief over would require about two tonnes of force alone (the weight of the crate/machine itself is irrelevant if it does that anyway). Then, you have to account for how the air pressure would be the most intense when opening the door itself (next to the whole thing being open, which would have the least amount of pressure), as well as how hard it would be to pry open a large blast door like that anyway. That’s far beyond even 3 tonnes.
>
> I was referring to pushing the monolith, sorry.
>
> Thrusters do not significantly enhance the jump height of Spartans. As Grim put it, they are used more for EVA, as well as mid-directional evasion and displacement (something that would be very useful for skyjacking Banshees). Osiris also can jump 2-3 stories high without using their thrusters when given commands by Locke in the campaign. This is something that needs to be addressed to people: Game mechanics in a general sense are used to both canonically emulate the abilities of Spartans (as described by Frankie) as well as introduce new abilities for the player. If this weren’t the case, then Bungie and 343 wouldn’t bother making such cinematic approaches to these during their E3 presentations (eg hijacking Brute-controlled ghosts in the Halo 2 trailer, or spartan abilities in Halo 5’s).
>
> What isn’t so much of a canonical representation, are the specific balancing moments in gameplay, like Promethean Knights being affected greatly by UNSC ammunition. You should have a problem with them breaking weapons like that though, because what he just did is more akin to an Elephant’s strength level over a Gorilla’s.
>
> It’s still rather large, and when taking into account how they are solid over a car’s roomy interior, these things will also be very heavy. Sketchy is pretty harsh a word though, I’m simply providing sources from what is seen in Halo regarding strength, as well as what 343 have provided regarding it. If this doesn’t qualify, then what does in your mind? I’m a little confused as to what your metric is.

We don’t know how strong the wraith column is, but we know that Spartans can punch through concrete which would be at least as hard as a wraith’s unarmoured section.
It’s not out of the bounds of reason for a Spartan 2 to toss a SOEV (500kg) several metres away, though it was reaching the peak as seen with Cal visibly straining herself to lift it out of the mud. It may not be out of bounds but it is pushing it, especially when she catches with one hand the swing of brute Chieftain which is what most people have a hard time believing considering the brute encounters in Halo First Strike and Ghost of Onyx.
As for Adrianna, I’ll have to re-read that part but I don’t have the novel on hand right now. That said a mongoose isn’t particularly sturdy, especially when used for a function it clearly wasn’t meant to fulfil.

That scene has many variables cannot be quantified (the weight of the crate is important). Besides the force wasn’t enough to knock Chief senseless otherwise he would not have been able to grab on the other side. No matter what the scene was badly done visually.

The monolith is missing a lot of variables to give a clear answer of strength.

No but that is the only explanation possible as Spartans cannot jump that high. Its is canonically impossible. In Hunters in the Dark Elites can jump further than Spartans and they sure as hell cannot jump that high.
Game mechanics are not always canonical. Spartans don’t regenerate their health like that. They can’t run forever. Shooting someone’s foot doesn’t kill them in the short term. Meleeing a Brute’s armour doesn’t destroy it in a single punch etc… Only some elements are canon but vast majority is not.
What Halo 2 trailer?
Spartan abilities are canon since we see them in a cutscnene + Locke’s armour trailer.

Not really, a 3 tonne strength is easily enough to break a weapon like that on another Spartan’s armour. Even Elites can bend battlerifles with their hands.

Large but not car sized.

My metric is this: Novels + Game cutscenes + Scripted events + Films = Highest form of canon.
Anything else is to be placed under the highest scrutiny at best and considered secondary/non-canon at worst.

18

What the…?
What are you talking about?

Punching concrete targets to pieces would require strength hundreds of times beyond what normal humans can achieve, yes. Thanks for backing my calcs up?

What are you going on about? You need to understand how much deeper this pod was compared to that ODST’s leg, as well as how much more surface area it had covered in it (the oxygen tank inside was also depleted, so bye-bye buoyancy). With the ODST, equipment, and weapons inside, this thing would weigh 600 kilograms alone without that tug. To pull it out of there would require an absolute -Yoink- level of carry/pulling strength (hint: your pulling strength is nowhere near the amount that you can bench press). A good purchase would also be required, and she sure as heck didn’t have that good of a purchase.

Why are you trying to rebuttal my calcs when you don’t even understand what your theory even is? It doesn’t matter if it’s a 100 kilogram object moving at 100ms^2, or a 1,000 kilogram object moving at 10ms^2 - the resulting force is obviously capable of knocking a biped twice the weight of a deer off his feet.

Yes, the monolith does have good enough variables. Nylund states it as a 3x6 metre cuboid rock made of silicon dioxide. With those dimensions and with that density, it would weigh around 140 tonnes, which makes sense as it incapacitated three Mgalekgolo (the same guys that backhand Warthogs like toys). The coefficient of friction for quartz-on-quartz is around .45mu - just because that’s sounds weird to you doesn’t mean it’s useless information or deceptive garbage.

So because elites jump higher than them, it’s “canonically impossible”? What? Don’t you remember how high the Arbiter jumped in Halo 2 classic when infiltrating Johnson and Miranda in the Library?

Do you understand how different the force required is to strenuously bend a barrel 90 degrees vertically, and smash a rifle against someone hard enough for the whole thing to shatter to pieces? Let’s just say that because you can rip a chapter out of a book, that you can close the book, and horizontally tear it in half including it’s hardcover. No, doing that is about half an order of magnitude beyond just bending the barrel.

Well then, going by your metric, all of my sources and feats are quantifiable, because they happen all in what you just made note of. Unless you’re somehow the one responsible for what’s canonical and what’s not with what they do, I suggest you not be so brave to wave your finger about towards what I’m saying. I’m not some scam-artist, I want to show people something they were all missing with what they talk all the time about anyway.

Honestly, this is kind of an excuse to get myself into physics again whilst simultaneously doing this, and I’d appreciate feedback with people correcting my model. Unlike what people from other sites believe, this isn’t some -Yoink!- contest for how smart people are, and to trump over the ignorant.

This is another goodie from Hunt the Truth:

“Not to mention, of course, that he then makes a superhuman jump into an enemy craft in mid-flight, yanks the pilot out of the cockpit, commandeers the bird, and then rams it back down on the enemy’s throat!”

  • Franklin Mendez
19

> 2533274927111211;18:
> “Not to mention, of course, that he then makes a superhuman jump into an enemy craft in mid-flight, yanks the pilot out of the cockpit, commandeers the bird, and then rams it back down on the enemy’s throat!”
> - Franklin Mendez

Ok, I looked around for the quote about punching concrete and found it from Halopedia for the Mark 4 which claims: “Its gauntlets are also capable of shattering concrete without being damaged” which is sourced from Halo: Fall of Reach Definitive Edition. Unfortunately I do not own a copy of this edition for I cannot verify the exact circumstances of the feat.

As for the Babysitter, the main problem comes from that its a cartoon and hence a lot of visual elements are either wrong or taken liberties with. Cal’s ability to stop of Chieftan’s hammer swing flied in the face of John’s encounter with Brutes in Halo First Strike and even Fred’s in Halo Ghost of Onyx. This has caused many people to view many feats as exaggerations or stretches of belief. The common opinion regarding Halo Legends is that while the episodes (excepet Odd one out) are canon their representation is in a gray area hence why people are generally hesitant to use those feats in debates especially on Spacebattle forums.

The mass/weight does matter, as it would give us an indication of the force John was hit by (since Force = Mass x Acceleration). The reason why I would like to know is to deduce if it was mainly to force of the impact that knocks Chief off his feat, or did the impact simply unstable him enough that the decompression force did the rest. I also noticed that the impact caused no loss to his shield meter. Either way the scene could have been done better.

I looked again and you are right, the monolith dimensions are given. So there is really nothing I can say for this, except that obviously Nylund doesn’t follow his calculations very well. His previous statements about the Spartans strength was 3 x weight which if we do adult size (180 before retcon) makes 540 kg and with Mark 4 (so x2 strength) would make 1080 kg. No where near enough to pull of the feats in his book. I did some searching and found a claim on this forum that according to Halo Encyclopedia page 84 a S2 in Mark 4 is supposed to have 2 tonnes of strength, from which we can infer that unarmoured they are 1 tonners and with Mark 6 they are 5 tonners. Are you capable of verifying this claim?

All it means is that Sangheili can jump better than Spartans. Even in Classic Halo 2 the Arbiter didn’t jump much higher than 5 metres, so if Spartans can’t even jump as high how are they supposed to hijack banshees? Besides this is a moot point since the remastered edition has retconned this feat. Regardless, jumping that high is so ridiculous that I can’t take it seriously.

The Battlerifle isn’t a solid block of metal, but instead made of several components. For all we know its more fragile that the previous model. As we don’t know in intricacies of the weapon this sort of thing is hard to tell.

If I have offended you then I apologise as that is not my intent. That said not all your sources follow my scheme of canon as some are based on game mechanics and others on calculations that lack all the variables. There is nothing flat out wrong with what you have said so far, the problem is that what you find valid as evidence is not the same as what I find valid. There is also the matter in inconsistencies to address as well as some feats fall into this category. Halo is a large series with many different authors are as such there are different takes on how strong a Spartan is. Some like Tobias believe they are very strong; others such as Peter David as more conservative with their feats. So when it comes to narrowing down an answer, feats who’s levels are far removed from the majority (such as flipping a tank) are generally ignored.

20

I can get the direct quote for you:
“John focused his mind on motion. He leaped over a three-meter-high wall. He punched at concrete targets—shattering them. He threw knives, sinking them up to their hafts into target dummies. He slid under barbed wire as bullets zinged over his head. He stood, and let the rounds deflect off the armor. To his amazement, he actually dodged one or two of the rounds.”

That excerpt in the Halo Encyclopedia is mistakenly referring to the exoskeletons used by the trainers. It even states that they can run 32 kilometres per hour, which is also the exact same number given in the novel for them. This is why numbers given as a passing statement should be ignored, especially when it requires scaling from sporadic sources. I like to compare this to Big Hero 6, where Baymax’s endoskeleton is described as having a 1000 pound lifting capacity. Later in the novel, however, he’s smashing through thick concrete pillars and catching large shipping containers being flung towards him at high velocities.

Your words haven’t been condescending or anything like that, it just gets annoying when I have users from other sites not participate in reviewing my claims, and just say that I’m deceiving people for my own good, or that I’m “fan--Yoink!- I wouldn’t say it’s a far cry from the majority, what would hit that mark would be John leaving that gigantic crater when slamming into the ground (Halo 4, mission 3) or Tanaka fragmenting a large boulder in Halo 5.