Spartan Abilities/Chatter = No H5 Playable Elites?

Community General Discussion
1

Yeah, you know who are supposed to possess these Abilities and Chatter; it’s in the name: SPARTANS. 343 Industries designed and fine tuned Spartan Abilities and recorded Spartan Chatter for Spartans in Halo 5, at the cost of Playable Elites. Also, there is parallel in 343’s decision to make all future Halo’s output 60fps, consistently, at the cost of certain graphical details and the most controversial feature, Local Split-Screen capabilities. The point is, we have seen many aspects of Halo that 343 decided to sacrifice for other ones to be possible. I propose 343 didn’t include Playable Elites at Halo 5’s launch since they focused so much on Spartan Abilities, instead of implementing many game modes and playlists, community features (such as an in-game File Browser/Share), and, of course, playable Elites. In the case of Playable Elites for Halo 5, it comes down to post-launch Multiplayer balancing, logical sense for it, and looking into how Halo Reach, Halo 3, and Halo 2 made it possible.

Campaign/Lore
If we look into the Campaign of Halo 5, and all other Campaigns in previous Halo’s, Elites never possessed the abilities that Spartans now have. Elites weren’t, and still aren’t, capable of Ground Pounding, Spartan Charging into gunfights, or Thrusting away from bullets and grenades. Yes, we have seen them capable of jet packing in Halo Reach and Halo 4, but that isn’t shown much in Halo 5, even with Spartan Abilities in the mix. The reason for this is because 343 is attempting at pleasing those that like Spartan Abilities and those the many lore fanatics that will tear the game into shreds with such an inclusion. For Playable Elites to ever even touch Multiplayer, there’d have to be a logical reason as to why all Spartans and Elites have Spartan Abilities in the story mode.

Multiplayer Balancing
Since late June of 2015, Playable Elites have been confirmed to not be available in Halo 5, by Frank O’ Connor himself. In response to this disappointing news, so many people across the Halo Community, from the biggest YouTube channels, to many Waypoint members in forums, have voiced the need for Playable Elites in Halo 5, post-launch. Since then, Elites have yet to be released on the game with only one last Free Content Update that has the possibility of featuring this ability. However, since the other disappointing reveal of the Falcon not being in the Memories of Reach Update, I am bit of a pessimistic when it comes to certain game features the community wants actually showing up in the game. To understand how Playable Elites have not been in a new Halo installment since Halo Reach, we have to consider what may have caused the lack of Elites in multiplayer.

Those that are opposed to playable Elites state that Elites in Multiplayer will be a larger target, have bigger hit boxes, and become unbalanced in the game. Yes, they will be larger target, but like Halo 2, 3 and Reach have done it, they can be easily just be available in Social Playlists and not the Arena that needs to be completely balanced. The fact that they are larger does not automatically refute it’s existence. On the other hand, those that support Playable Elites in Halo 5 state that Elites have been shown many times in the lore to be training alongside the UNSC in War games simulations such as Invasion and other modes. Thus, Playable Elites will, at one point, get featured in Warzone modes. This is inaccurate because not every aspect of the lore can be replicated in a Halo game. If the lore was correctly considered, then Spartans in Halo 5 should actually have the ability to run at extremely high Speeds compared to what they already sprint at. However, this feature would do way too much damage to the fundamentals of a game. At the end of the day, video games are fake, and the lore compliments the gameplay (not the other way around). Just because Elites train with Spartans in War Games, doesn’t automatically mean they’ll be in the game. If that were the case, then Playable Elites would have been in Halo 5 from the start.

After all of these points being considered, this brings us onto my theory as to why Elites aren’t playable in any aspect of Halo 5: Guardians and, if 343 implemeneed in there, it would take a lot of time for them to properly and logically transfer them into Multiplayer. In past Halo’s, Playable Elites were so simple to implement due to the fact that there weren’t any advanced movement systems, design models/animations, in-game talking among characters, and other factors to consider for their addition. For 343 to implement Playable Elites in Halo 5, they’d have to reposition the Thrusters, tweak and rename Spartan Charge, Melee, Stabilizers, Slide, Ground Pound, Thrust, and Clamber animations (due to Elites being taller and bigger), re-record Chatter for Elites to say the same things as Spartans do now and rename it as… “Player Chatter” I guess, and so much more. It isn’t a simple drag and drop of models in the place of Spartans. 343 focused on designing the game around Halo 5’s Spartan Abilities, forgetting to implement community features, gametypes, and PLAYABLE ELITES. This brings me to a common solution the community continues to propose.

In response to the points I previously stated regarding why Playable Elites wasn’t possible, many people would suggest to just include a playlist, without Spartan Abilities, and allow players to use Elites there. This is also shown in many people suggesting “Classic” Playlists to “please” the veterans. The problem with both of these notions is the lack of consistency across the entire game. It is well known that the community is divided in what they believe Halo should be, some believe Halo shouldnt have Sprint, some believe that Halo needs Sprint, some are just fine with both. If we have certain modes that contain for certain game mechanics, thus capable of creating a different set of experiences in the mode from others, then that will divide the community into preferences. A certain group of people would like Classic Playlists/ Playlists with Elites, some would stick with Warzone, some would stick with Arena. The community is already divided with Halo trailers like Gamescom 2015 asking viewers “Which Side Will YOU Chose” (referring to whether you’ll play Warzone or Arena). We shouldn’t be directing players to stay in the highly competitive mode or stay in a casual, laid back game mode. We should be bringing people together and encouraging everyone to play every game mode because a strong community, with everyone on the same page, is important for Halo’s legacy. When I get onto Halo 5, I don’t feel like I’m a part of something bigger-- a community. I feel as though I’m only there by myself. I can’t interact with new people I never before. It’s quite bsrren. Adding unique playlists that promote preferences will only make that worse.

Overall, with Spartan Abilities/Chatter being the focus of any Halo game, experiences such as Halo 5’s Playable Elites will be difficult and nearly impossible to implement without breaking the logic of the game. Balancing, logic, and the implementation of past Halo’s is important when considering Elites in Multiplayer. We can only wait and see if they’ll return in the Warzone Firefight Update. Instead of just telling 343 to put things in a game and why, start asking why they didn’t in the first place, educate yourself and others.

What are your thoughts on all of what I said? Respond below and have a good day!

2

> 2533274967316273;1:
> After all of these points being considered, this brings us onto my theory as to why Elites aren’t playable in any aspect of Halo 5: Guardians and, if 343 implemeneed in there, it would take a lot of time for them to properly and logically transfer them into Multiplayer. In past Halo’s, Playable Elites were so simple to implement due to the fact that there weren’t any advanced movement systems, design models/animations, in-game talking among characters, and other factors to consider for their addition. For 343 to implement Playable Elites in Halo 5, they’d have to reposition the thrusters, tweak and rename Spartan Charge, Melee, Stabilizers, Slide, Ground Pound, Thrust, and Clamber animations (due to Elites being taller and bigger), re-record Chatter for Elites to say the same things as Spartans do now and rename it as… “Player Chatter” I guess, and so much more. Also, for Elites to be implemented in a game with Spartan Abilities/Chatter, they’d have to make all Elites in the story have them too. It isnt a simple drag and drop of models in the place of Spartans. They need to follow a sense of consistency and balance between different modes in a game. Next, this brings me to a common solution the community continues to propose.
>
> In response to the points I previously stated regarding why Playable Elites wasn’t possible, many people would suggest to just include a playlist, without Spartan Abilities, and allow players to use Elites there. This is also shown in many people suggesting “Classic” Playlists to “please” the veterans. The problem with both of these notions is the lack of consistency across the entire game. It is well known that the community is divided in what they believe Halo should be, some believe Halo shouldnt have Sprint, some believe that Halo needs Sprint, some are just fine with both. If we have certain modes that contain for certain game mechanics, thus capable of creating a different set of experiences in the mode from others, then that will divide the community into preferences. A certain group of people would like Classic Playlists/ Playlists with Elites, some would stick with Warzone, some would stick with Arena. The community is already divided with Halo trailers like Gamescom 2015 asking viewers “Which Side Will YOU Chose” (referring to whether you’ll play Warzone or Arena). We shouldn’t be directing players to stay in the highly competitive mode or stay in a casual, laid back game mode. We should be bringing people together and encouraging everyone to play every game mode because a strong community, with everyone on the same page, is important for Halo’s legacy. When I get onto Halo 5, I don’t feel like I’m a part of something bigger-- a community. I feel as though I’m only there by myself. I can’t interact with new people I never before. It’s quite bsrren. Adding unique playlists that promote preferences will only make that worse.
>
> Overall, with Spartan Abilities/Chatter being the focus of any Halo game, experiences such as Halo 5’s Playable Elites will be difficult and nearly impossible to implement without breaking the logic of the game. Balancing, lore, and the implementation of past Halo’s is important when considering Elites in Multiplayer. We can only wait and see if they’ll return in the Warzone Firefight Update. Instead of just telling 343 to put things in a game and why, start asking why they didn’t in the first place, educate yourself and others.
>
> What are your thoughts on all of what I said? Respond below and have a good day!

So you support dumbing/down sizing the community until there is barely anyone left, alright I got it. Now the ONLY thing that is keeping elites out of 5 is 343 refusing to put any work into adding them in(unless they are working on that) because it is an difficult, time consuming task but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean its not worth it. Halo NEEDS options or its just gonna continue to fail. Split the community by adding playlists?!?!? so losing people because you refuse to allow them to have fun its better? Yeah so what the community may disagree on what they think is better, its not like they are gonna tell 343 to just remove the other side so why is it such a problem? Oh, it isn’t a problem you just won’t 343 to give their full undivided attention to you which in turn is making people leave. They don’t need to add squat to the campaign if they don’t want too, they can easily say something like “the elites in the campaign are ones who prefer traditional fighting” or “don’t trust the new equipment from humans”, then just add it into a multiplayer playlist, forge, and customs saying that “some sangheili have accepted change though”.A community will never fully agree unless its extremely small which everyone who want’s options in the game is trying to keep from happening. The truth of the situation is that if players don’t have a variety of fun things to do they will simply leave and never come back, going to other games that actually has something that caters to them. Halo 5 truly only has 3 different multiplayer game types: competitive slayer, warzone, and infection. There may be other modes but this is how the majority of this broken community plays the game. Also there wouldn’t be nearly as much arguing if 343 would simply give at least one playlist to each of the sub-communities being ignored like elites, doubles, snipers, and objective people because they wouldn’t be fighting the 343 fanboys over Halo’s over all failure in recent years. Overall I felt you were ranting and didn’t think this fully through but if you have anything to disprove me or have another argument I’d like to see what you will say.

P.S. Lore fans would not be mad at all unless they were simply immature and couldn’t accept game play isn’t fully canon. Also the sangheili community have solutions to how to make elites fit in multiplayer and they don’t care if their hit box is bigger as long as they can play as an elite.

3

> "So you support dumbing/down sizing the community until there is barely anyone left, alright I got it. Now the ONLY thing that is keeping elites out of 5 is 343 refusing to put any work into adding them in(unless they are working on that) because it is an difficult, time consuming task but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean its not worth it. Halo NEEDS options or its just gonna continue to fail."

You may just be frustrated with how I worded my OP, but could you explain what you mean by down sizing the community? Considering how I am in support of Elites being Playable in all Halo titles, therefore adding more viable options, I don’t see how I want the community be smaller. My theory is that 343 called every gameplay mechanic they added to be something related to Spartans. They released a bare bones game that had solid gameplay but lacked many community features (such as a File Browser/Share), a multitude of playlists, no playable elites, a short campaign to bridge the story, poorly designed UI, etc. They put so much time into designing maps around the new abilities, justifying Sprint’s existence with risk/reward factors that penalize players, and designing the abilities, themselves. I propose that they’d make the game have simplistic gameplay (“Shoot, Grenade, Melee”) to have more time on releasing a new title such as Halo 6 with an abundance of content (such as playable Elites) AT LAUNCH. Releasing the features after launch won’t completely solve the damage that having them come later inflicted.

> "Split the community by adding playlists?!?!? so losing people because you refuse to allow them to have fun its better?"

When in the entire OP have a stated that adding new playlists is refusing to let them have fun since it splits the community? I stated that making a game with inconsistent game mechanics in certain game modes/types will divide the community more than it is. A community is important for a game’s success. We wouldn’t be losing people if the community is split, anyway. However, we are encouraging players to pick a preferred side when it comes to the game. Which brings me back to the entire "what will you chose? Arena or Warzone? (The slogan from that Gamescom 2015 trailer). It makes the player want to preferably stay on one side of the community. Even big YouTubers have been quoted to state somethings like, “if you don’t like Warzone, you have competitive playlists” or “if you don’t like competitive matches, Warzone is for you.” Its the same as one of the biggest buzz phrases used when people criticize Halo 5, “if you don’t like the game, don’t play it.” That’s not what we should promote throughout the community. Just a little correction for that statement.

> "Oh, it isn’t a problem you just won’t 343 to give their full undivided attention to you which in turn is making people leave."

Why do you think stating something such as this will be constructive toward the topic? I have an opinion, you have an opinion, but us promoting some sort of hierarchy in the community will never improve anything. I am open to your ideas, but once again, I run into someone that doesn’t want to be open to mine and have a discussion, not this battle of what is better and what shouldn’t be considered. I’m looking for improvement in the franchise I’m most passionate about, not to be little others like you’re doing right there by eventually encouraging 343 to release Halo 6 with its content available ALL AT LAUNCH.

> …They can easily say something like “the elites in the campaign are ones who prefer traditional fighting” or “don’t trust the new equipment from humans”, then just add it into a multiplayer playlist, forge, and customs saying that “some sangheili have accepted change though”.

What I said about campaign was primarily directed to future installments (Halo 6). Though these are sensible solutions, I’m trying to logically justify Elites sliding, thrusting, and ground pounding around the maps. 343 dug themselves a hole a bit with making everything in the game, apart from CAMPAIGN, follow the lore.

> "The truth of the situation is that if players don’t have a variety of fun things to do they will simply leave and never come back, going to other games that actually has something that caters to them."

You obviously don’t understand the purpose of this post. Am I refuting the fact that players should be able to play as Elites and other characters other than Spartans? No. I am proposing a source of the problem the community is facing due to the lack of Playable Elites with the factors of balancing, lore, and how easily previous games have implemented them in the game. I WANT PLAYABLE ELITES. But since they aren’t present in the game, I want to build an understanding on exactly why they haven’t been in the game (through constructive discussion) instead of just continuously telling 343 to put them in. Understanding why they aren’t in the game will allow for the community to know more specifically what to tell 343 in regards to Halo 6 to make it easier for them to make more money (because it should probably benefit them directly) as well as more options for the community.

> The truth of the situation is that if players don’t have a variety of fun things to do they will simply leave and never come back, going to other games that actually has something that caters to them.

I don’t see exactly what I posted as a rant. I used the basics of an ELA essay to write the OP. I gave my proposal, I stated why I think so with 3 supporting reasons, I go into detail on those 3 concepts through explanation and I closed with a conclusion and a thought for the reader to consider. Yes, this can easily be written better, I don’t see how I ranted in this post compared to previous ones. The new points are shown in what I stated previously and should clear some stuff up. Next time, I’ll make sure to clearly state my stance on whether it should be in, or not, but I think what I said and how I said it would allude to that by itself. This intended to be informative with my opinion surrounding what I think is the main reason for Playable Elites’ exclusion this far into Halo 5.

> P.S. Lore fans would not be mad at all unless they were simply immature and couldn’t accept game play isn’t fully canon. Also the sangheili community have solutions to how to make elites fit in multiplayer and they don’t care if their hit box is bigger as long as they can play as an elite.

P.S. Reply: Yes… I agree with this statement and even acknowledged it in the OP by stating that the game doesn’t need to be completely balanced if Elites are allowed in Social Playlists, just like the way it was implemented in Halo Reach, Halo 3, and Halo 2. As long as they are in social playlists, they can be in the game. Some people like to oppose the idea of Playable Elites, or justify the lack thereof, by using the hit box argument. However, I am not on their side (I acknowledged an opposing argument and proved it wrong). Their hit boxes can be larger, as long as the game is consistent in their experiences with the utmost of balanced gameplay.

Here’s another one of my recent posts that you should probably check out to understand my perspective more on Halo 5’s development process, determining its lack of content, and how to improve future installments: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/the-community-can-t-accept-change-but-we-need-it/6018ef7e-b17e-46f0-bb6d-4c5134b3e22d/posts?page=14#post272

4

> 2533274967316273;3:
> >

Sorry dude I completely misread your comment thinking you didn’t want elites in Halo and fully supported 343 in keeping them out for reasons like balance and current lore constraints. I guess mine just ended up being a nonconstructive rant and I appreciate the calm response so now I fully support you lol.

5

> 2535406272231884;4:
> > 2533274967316273;3:
> > >
>
>
> Sorry dude I completely misread your comment thinking you didn’t want elites in Halo and fully supported 343 in keeping them out for reasons like balance and current lore constraints. I guess mine just ended up being a nonconstructive rant and I appreciate the calm response so now I fully support you lol.

Thanks! I assumed that from the start. And I apologize for not correctly stating my stance and clarifying a bit of things. Its cool. I could have completely lashed out on you but I can understand the frustration even if it was true. There are many problems with Halo 5 and I’m trying to do as much as I can to get a sense of understanding in the community and promote all of the players who care about the franchise to lead 343 into the best direction. I want them in but I can see why putting them in wasn’t one of 343’s priorities due to them making Halo 5’s gameplay revolve around the Spartans’ unique and fast paced abilities instead of a clean slate that could make the process of applying gameplay to Elites and even Humans. You may disagree with that portion, and it’s fine; I don’t fault you for that. Like I said I’m trying my best to wrap my head around the lack of features and options in Halo 5 that Halo needs to be successful and stand out. And in doing so, I’m trying to apply something I know pretty well, how Spartan Abilities affects game design, to the many problems present in the same game that features them.

But yeah, lol, it’s cool. I appreciate your passion on the topic, nonetheless.

6

I noticed that Elites wouldn’t be in Hali 5 when they announced Spartan Abilities. The only way I can see them adding them into Halo 5 is if because of the fact that it’s simulation, they have Spartan Abilities too, so it’ll be balanced on both ends, but maybe not integrate them unless they have a game mode like Invasion. The reason why I oppose Elite vs Spartans, is because the Elites are surprisingly taller than Spartans, so stuff like clambering and sprint might have to be adjusted to even it out, but it would be embarrassing if a 6’8"-6’10" human could jump just as high as a 7’4"-8’6" Elite, unless maybe they just even the height out like in Halo 3.

7

> 2535471109694535;6:
> I noticed that Elites wouldn’t be in Hali 5 when they announced Spartan Abilities. The only way I can see them adding them into Halo 5 is if because of the fact that it’s simulation, they have Spartan Abilities too, so it’ll be balanced on both ends, but maybe not integrate them unless they have a game mode like Invasion. The reason why I oppose Elite vs Spartans, is because the Elites are surprisingly taller than Spartans, so stuff like clambering and sprint might have to be adjusted to even it out, but it would be embarrassing if a 6’8"-6’10" human could jump just as high as a 7’4"-8’6" Elite, unless maybe they just even the height out like in Halo 3.

Yes, and I considered all of the points you said, all well. I noticed that Elites weren’t in Halo 5 when I realized how central the Spartans were to the gameplay and how they scrapped Halo 1-3’s great and simplistic gameplay that allowed for Elites, and even Humans, to be easily playable in the game. Apart from all of Sprints other negative affects on Gameplay and Halo, in general, its simplicity relates directly to the topic of Playable Elites. That’s why I was surprised at how devastated many community members were when elites were confirmed unplayable, even AFTER “Spartan Abilities” were announced for the game. Even though Elites are larger, like I said in the original post, they can have them in Social Playlists only (like it was in Halo Reach, Halo 3, and Halo 2). Social Playlists aren’t supposed to be completely even so Elites can easily fit in there (if a Social Playlist is implemented at launch like it should have been). That last part is a good suggestion too. They could make them hunch over a bit to even out the height. They’ll still be bigger, overall (in width and height) but since they’d only be in Social Playlists, they’d fit right in.

8

Getting Ghost, the points you have presented are quite interesting and something I originally would have not considered. There are some topics I can agree with and others I can argue with. But to be frank, there should have not been an excuse to not add the Elites. I mean isn’t that what made halo unique is some sort of sense? Why wouldn’t 343i not consider the possibility that being a different race in a game be intriguing and entertaining? I mean for me it personally sucks because a decent amount of years have passed since I last played as an Elite. Spartans to me are just “boring” and “stale” now and they’re not that overall interesting. Maybe if 343i can implement Elites with “Elite Abilities” which do something differently compared to Spartans. But of course well balanced, making the two species play differently and adding flavor to the multiplayer once more.

9

> 2533274810153165;8:
> Getting Ghost, the points you have presented are quite interesting and something I originally would have not considered. There are some topics I can agree with and others I can argue with. But to be frank, there should have not been an excuse to not add the Elites. I mean isn’t that what made halo unique is some sort of sense? Why wouldn’t 343i not consider the possibility that being a different race in a game be intriguing and entertaining? I mean for me it personally sucks because a decent amount of years have passed since I last played as an Elite. Spartans to me are just “boring” and “stale” now and they’re not that overall interesting. Maybe if 343i can implement Elites with “Elite Abilities” which do something differently compared to Spartans. But of course well balanced, making the two species play differently and adding flavor to the multiplayer once more.

The problem with that is… what else could 343 do other than what Spartan Abilities offer, such as Slide, Spint, Ground Pound, Thrust, etc.? I like your idea of the Elites being unique; many creative movement systems can come out of that. However, since it must be balanced between Elites and Spartans, there’s practically nothing that I see can be different from Spartan Abilities, yet balanced. Also, I am not giving 343 any slack for them forgetting about catering to the player with options. Here’s something to consider: 343 Industries have put so much of the development of Halo 5 on the creation of Spartan Abilities, additions such as Spartan Chatter, and making the maps around those implementations. Due to Spartans and their abilities being their top priority, they’ve stretched themselves too far and couldn’t fulfill upon the features that do matter, such as a Custom Games Browser, Playable Elites, in-game File Browser/Share, a numerous amount of game modes, game types, and playlists in Matchmaking, a high quality and immersive User Interface, Daily, Weekly, and Monthly Challenges that make the game fresh, and so much more ALL AT LAUNCH.

Think about Titanfall. When Titanfall released, it offered such a unique and one-of-a-kind set of game mechanics and experiences. However, the populations plummeted post launch because of the lack of community features and many customization options for the player. Yes, they may have put in Custom Games and other additions post launch, but by the time they did, none of the players cared. They moved on to other games, by then. And that is what is happening to Halo. That’s why the populations now are so much lower than what they were at launch. Whether Elites are added in now, next month, or next year, they won’t undo the damage of not having them at launch has done.

In the past, from Halo 2 to Halo 3, Bungie didn’t decide to change how the game was played, but they changed what the player could spend their time doing. They added in Equipment (which added a new layer of skill into the gameplay) but most importantly put in Theater mode, Forge, new Achievements, and so many more options to the player. This is what 343 should have done for Halo 5, build directly off the simplistic, yet creative, Halo formula and innovate in aspects other than gameplay. They would have had the ability to give the players more options and more content (I made another Waypoint post going into detail about the notion of change and what different forms of change can do to a game. Check it out if interested: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/6e35355aecdf4fd0acdaee3cc4156fd4/topics/why-is-halo-5-so-underrated/97593682-c454-4e87-b15f-2054af7b0b56/posts?page=7#post133**).** This is why I believe a Halo without the attempt of drawing in new players, or even catering to all Shooter fans, will benefit the Halo community, long-term, because 343 will be able to cater more to the fans with community features, while simultaneously monopolizing the original Halo formula of “Shoot, Grenade, Melee.” The Halo formula isn’t found in any game on the market right now, not even in Halo 5! With the original Halo formula, 343 could make us play as an Elite, a Spartan, and a ODST or human, with ease, all in one game. That’s one of the benefits of a Halo without Sprint I don’t see much. Yes DOOM 2016 has no sprint, but it doesn’t offer slow and methodical gameplay, one that made the player think before they do, that Halo used to offer.

If 343 can use the Halo formula that worked fine and no other games could ever copy, monopolize it in a completely different market, and cater to what many people in the community wants… we wouldn’t even be having this conversation right now about 343 needing to add in more features. More than likely, they would have already been there at launch. Instead of getting in on an oligopoly (competing with Call of Duty, Titanfall, Destiny, Battlefield and other games for the same set of FPS players), 343 Industries can form a monopoly (exclusive possession of one particular service or commodity) of a unique Halo experience.

10

> 2533274967316273;9:
> > 2533274810153165;8:
> >

I think Halo 6 will overall give the community what it needs because Halo 5 not only had to design maps around new abilities but they also created a whole new game mode that probably took a lot of development time, making it so other game modes weren’t gotten to in time for the game release. The new abilities didn’t help bringing back game modes either and then there was also all the glitches, and lag tha plagued(and still do) Halo 5 with the new REQ system. But since Halo 5 has everything in OK shape, they will most likely be able to spend time on adding in features like elites or even classic playlists because they won’t have to spend so much time adding in and tweaking the system and a game mode. While they might still be cautious over the population and not add in a classic playlist or many, they can probably at least add in elites and one playlist for them(still prefer many more playlists though).

11

> 2535406272231884;10:
> > 2533274967316273;9:
> > > 2533274810153165;8:
> > >
>
>
> I think Halo 6 will overall give the community what it needs because Halo 5 not only had to design maps around new abilities but they also created a whole new game mode that probably took a lot of development time, making it so other game modes weren’t gotten to in time for the game release. The new abilities didn’t help bringing back game modes either and then there was also all the glitches, and lag tha plagued(and still do) Halo 5 with the new REQ system. But since Halo 5 has everything in OK shape, they will most likely be able to spend time on adding in features like elites or even classic playlists because they won’t have to spend so much time adding in and tweaking the system and a game mode. While they might still be cautious over the population and not add in a classic playlist or many, they can probably at least add in elites and one playlist for them(still prefer many more playlists though).

On the surface, yes. They, theoretically, won’t have to spend much time on the mechanics, if they keep them. I thought the same thing at first before developing my theory of Halo 5’s production process. However, that doesn’t make the map development factor go away. When Spartan Abilities are included, 343 still has to spend much time on ensuring that all the maps work well with the Abilities and Sprint. We all saw just how much time it took to develop, test, and finalize Truth, one map, throughout The Sprint series. That is one of the very reasons why Halo 5 lacks so many unique maps made by 343, in-house. They have Eden, Coliseum, Plaza, The Rig, Torque, and Fathom for Arena/Custom Games. Then there is Battle of Noctus, Skirmish on Darkstar, Raid on Apex 7, March on Stormbreak, and Escape on ARC for Warzone. The rest are either Forge or remixes. All BTB maps are not made by 343 in-house. All of this being said, they don’t have a wide variety of map selection. Thats a major sacrifice they’d have to consider when it comes to the long process of building maps around all of these Spartan Abilities.

Overall, the production of a future Halo game with Spartan Abilities will still be very long, even if they are not going to modify the Spartan Abilities they have now. Therefore, this will take away time from finalizing features that are best for the title long-term, such as Theater, Forge, Campaign, Custom Games, Community Features, UI design, Playable Elites, at launch. This is why I believe that Halo 6 without Sprint will benefit the developer by having less competing franchises and easing the of creation of a game with 1 movement speed, and will benefit the player in being creative, offering a plethora of in-game options, and thinking more before just doing (a Halo game that is simple to make and pick-up, yet challenging to master).

Also, creating a playlist without mechanics in a game that has another set of mechanics in the rest of said game will only split the community even more. Some will be on one side of the game, others will be on the rest of the game. Thus, there won’t be any interaction between those two groups of players. And as a result, the community will be more split than it is now. I believe that a community that is strong, connected, and interacting will be more successful than those that are not. That is why Minecraft is such a big community of people constantly creating content and interacting with each other in friendly manner. Halo is far from that, at the moment. But if a Halo game satisfies its core fans with a game that is universally follows the original Halo formula, of Shoot, Grenade, Melee, the community will eventually even out and everyone will be on the same page. At that point, will Halo be better than it is now. Currently, it’s trying to grab other Shooter fans from different games. We’ve tried this the 3rd time, and the overall trend of success, popilation, and community interaction continues to decline. I don’t want to see Halo completely decline. But with the direction we are going right now, it is too late for us to continue on that path and banking on a miracle. I say 343 needs to try something drastic; bring the abandoned Halo formula back, set ourselves apart from every other shooter, create a monopoly, focus on community features all for launch day, and other acts of progression is a better bet than contuning the trend we are going, now.

12

If it came down to the games mechanics the only thing they’d have to add would be a new interface for the elites to show their arms holding the gun or whatever have you. Compared to the rest of the game that would be a minuscule amount of modeling. Besides that, all the voices are torn from the UNSC from the campaign. How hard would it really be to do the same thing for elites?

Voices aside I think that was just a bad excuse for 343. As far as the hitboxes go for team balancing, what if the thought of people knowingly take the elite for the sake of being an elite be enough to completely SCRAP balancing? Something for the really good players to take advantage of, or be fodder for the not so skilled. “Look what I can do” kind of idea. A handicap to brag. Maybe in the end throw in a bonus XP or RP gain to make it at least have a point to play as.

13

> 2533274825446986;12:
> If it came down to the games mechanics the only thing they’d have to add would be a new interface for the elites to show their arms holding the gun or whatever have you. Compared to the rest of the game that would be a minuscule amount of modeling. Besides that, all the voices are torn from the UNSC from the campaign. How hard would it really be to do the same thing for elites?
>
> Voices aside I think that was just a bad excuse for 343. As far as the hitboxes go for team balancing, what if the thought of people knowingly take the elite for the sake of being an elite be enough to completely SCRAP balancing? Something for the really good players to take advantage of, or be fodder for the not so skilled. “Look what I can do” kind of idea. A handicap to brag. Maybe in the end throw in a bonus XP or RP gain to make it at least have a point to play as.

All I was saying was that 343 needs to implement Elites the exact same way Bungie has done in the past. All the Elites will not be in highly competition modes, but will be in Social Playlists. The balancing, chatter, Spartan Abilites, and other factors I stated were to acknowledge and prove the fact that it isn’t a simple drag of Elite models from Campaign and drop into Halo 5 Multiplayer. I’ve seen many people who were looking at the topic in a two-dimensional perspective and felt that it was necessary to acknowledge that.

The main point of the OP was to show that since 343 has put so much emphasis on Spartans, giving them a different set of Abilities to use from as well as Spartan Chatter, 343 obviously wasn’t focused on the well being of Playable Elites, at launch, when developing Halo 5. I personally don’t agree with Halo 5 Spartan Abilities for a multitude of reasons with the main one being it was an unnecessary change (due to the original Halo formula from Halo 3 worked fine, made Halo unique from other shooters, and was, and still can be, well received by many) that sacrificed the development of many innovative options and features in Halo, such as Playable Elites, to waste time reinventing the wheel-- changing how the game played. It’s important to recognize how Halo changed and what that meant for the rest of the game back in October, as well as now. In my opinion, if 343 had kept the original formula (without Sprint and Spartan Abilities) the production of maps and campaign levels would have been a simple and beneficial investment because they would have had more time to make other aspects of Halo 5 available at lanch, such as a Custom Games Browser, personalized and customizable File Browser/Share for each player, intuitive and appealing User Interface, a wide variety of Multiplayer maps, new game modes, game types and playlists (such as Space Combat; Banshees vs Sabres as shown in Halo Reach), a functioning and intuitive Theater with more in-depth options that games like CSGO possess, Playable Elites, and many more innovations apart from just the Game mechanics, themselves.

That’s the primary purpose of this forum. Not to show how hard it is to implement Playablw Elites post-launch but propose how easily it could have been to give playable elites and other options/features at launch if they didn’t make unnecessary changes to gameplay. At this point in Halo 5, if they do put playable elites and other missing and integral features in the game, it wouldn’t totally reverse the damage that was done of not having them in from the start. Therefore, I believe a Halo 6 without Spartan Abilities, or an overall focus on Spartans’ unique set of Abilities, will free up time for more important features in the game. In the end… maybe 343 can prove me wrong and do both simultaneously, however I’m not one to take a 4TH chance on a miracle. Once again for the several times I’ve already said before, 343 should build directly off Halo 3’s gameplay when developing Halo 6 and offer a unique game, full of creativity in how the game is played, as well as features that will keep players invested in the game on launch day.

14

Technically speaking they could add in sangheili to have similar abilities or even if they couldn’t have close enough abilities. There still could be a way to balance different abilities to the same multiplayer game. We dont need the elites to have “thruster-abilities” look at all the Halo’s, just by the simple evading and how they evade can be an ability in the game. Or some kind of sequence with short-distance teleporting. Technically that sounds dumb for elites to have because the factors are leaning more towards the Prometheans, but it’s still a good idea. (Hense their specialty) Spartan charge, I can see them charging with an ability like such. As for groundpound and floating, that might be non-usable and kinda worthless to them, however, maybe they can turn into “short-auto active camoflauge” instead of having to hover over to shoot somebody. Still tho, the groundpound is something tricky to get around.

The purpose of my reply is leaning towards ideas to use for the sangheili, I understand what you’re saying fully. And yes, it seems very logical how you’re putting it. But you gotta think outside of the box and be more creative than realistic.

15

> 2535440220895207;14:
> Technically speaking they could add in sangheili to have similar abilities or even if they couldn’t have close enough abilities. There still could be a way to balance different abilities to the same multiplayer game. We dont need the elites to have “thruster-abilities” look at all the Halo’s, just by the simple evading and how they evade can be an ability in the game. Or some kind of sequence with short-distance teleporting. Technically that sounds dumb for elites to have because the factors are leaning more towards the Prometheans, but it’s still a good idea. (Hense their specialty) Spartan charge, I can see them charging with an ability like such. As for groundpound and floating, that might be non-usable and kinda worthless to them, however, maybe they can turn into “short-auto active camoflauge” instead of having to hover over to shoot somebody. Still tho, the groundpound is something tricky to get around.
>
> The purpose of my reply is leaning towards ideas to use for the sangheili, I understand what you’re saying fully. And yes, it seems very logical how you’re putting it. But you gotta think outside of the box and be more creative than realistic.

Yes, this… a lot the way. Lol. Very creative, i must say. However, let it be known that for every action, there is a reaction. If 343 decides to keep Spartan Abilites, ideas such as your’s can work in regards to playable elites. I can’t see how they can balance Stabilizers and Ground Pound, but I can see what you mean in your other statements, as well. But, that would be another action on 343’s part that they will be putting more resources on balancing different mechanics across species that act the same instead of innovating in other areas. If they figure it out for Sangheli, then what about Playable Humans or even Playable Prometheans in certain modes? To pull those options off, they’d have to put so much focus on some how making them all work evenly but act and look unique (Humans, though, that’s just impossible unless they have like a jetpack of some sort). Although your creative ideas are interesting and I like the way you’re thinking, it will only solve one feature in sacrifice for the other many features we also need for long-term success. This is the problem with 343’s Spartan Abilities, for every upside, there is a large list of downsides.

Since you understand my stand on 343 innovating in other areas apart from gameplay if they were fine in Halo 3, consider this: Would it be more beneficial to have a game that has a bare-bones overall experience but complex and trend-based gameplay, or a game that has simplistic/unique gameplay but offers a plethora of innovative features? Note: Spartan Abilites aren’t innovative, but if they were I would have just said “innovative gameplay” to balance out the odds. There can be preference for which one is better, but, in my opinion, the latter will be best for a long-term strong and thriving community.

16

Since so many people were annoyed by chatter, I don’t see a problem on that end for Halo 6. As for abilities, Elites can be equipped with thruster packs and do the exact same things Spartans can.

17

All the Halo games in the franchise where Sangheli were playable they worked and fit into the game because there were no Unbalanced abilities. In Halo 2 Spartans vs Elites had no factors to offset the actual gameplay. In Halo 3 it mostly stayed the same the only difference is that things like the regeneration field, bubble shield, and others were added which could be used evenly by the two options so still no real difference in gameplay. In Reach The Spartan equipment was introduced like holograms, the jetpack, invisibility, the rolling evasion, and sprint … Still guess what no difference between the two race’s having any advantages or disadvantages to the other. In Halo 5 I feel like if Elites were added they would probably have no difference the only problem I see is that it would be akward to see an Elite ground pound or clamber. Maybe now Elites will have their own abilities so that this time there are advantages and disadvantages in gameplay but I still see a problem with 343 somehow finding a way to make everyone hate them.

18

> 2533274859620752;16:
> Since so many people were annoyed by chatter, I don’t see a problem on that end for Halo 6. As for abilities, Elites can be equipped with thruster packs and do the exact same things Spartans can.

> 2535444199704933;17:
> All the Halo games in the franchise where Sangheli were playable they worked and fit into the game because there were no Unbalanced abilities. In Halo 2 Spartans vs Elites had no factors to offset the actual gameplay. In Halo 3 it mostly stayed the same the only difference is that things like the regeneration field, bubble shield, and others were added which could be used evenly by the two options so still no real difference in gameplay. In Reach The Spartan equipment was introduced like holograms, the jetpack, invisibility, the rolling evasion, and sprint … Still guess what no difference between the two race’s having any advantages or disadvantages to the other. In Halo 5 I feel like if Elites were added they would probably have no difference the only problem I see is that it would be akward to see an Elite ground pound or clamber. Maybe now Elites will have their own abilities so that this time there are advantages and disadvantages in gameplay but I still see a problem with 343 somehow finding a way to make everyone hate them.

Nice points. However, considering what both of you said before, I recommend you both to take a look at my latest post.