Spartan Abilities and how they can change

I will say, after playing the Beta for 2 1/2 weeks, here is my opinion.
I’ll start off with an analogy;

Halo 4, Still felt like Halo, but a bad one at that.
Halo 5 is kind of fun, but doesn’t feel as ‘Halo’ as it could be.

Today I will talk about why that is, but for the most part, there are other things keeping it that way, and right now, I am just going to talk about the Spartan Abilities.
I will say right now that I am Anti-Sprint and that is final. There are many reasons for that, like destroying map design, Cat-and-Mouse gameplay, etc.

But what about the other abilities? Let’s talk about what they should do about them, shall we?
The following abilities, I believe, should be taken out for the following reasons:

Smart Scope: Not only is it Lore breaking, but game-play breaking too, tightening spread on automatics and precision weapons is something “ADS” would do, and Halo shouldn’t. It really doesn’t serve a purpose other than to pander to the “modern FPS fans”.

Clamber: Rewards you for messing up, something Halo should NEVER do, even gives you a pointless animation just to be an easier target.

Slide: Honestly? Does anyone ever even use this? I mean, just get rid of it, its so pointless. I forget it even exists more than half the time.

With that being said, not ALL spartan abilities are game breaking/ lore breaking/ total rip offs. Here are the only ones that I believe can stay, with a little tuning that is:

Ground-Pound: Yeah, its not the most original in the Spartan arsenal, but not only is it incredibly hard to pull off, but also incredibly satisfying when you do get a kill from it. Its situational to the max, but with that being said, it doesn’t often get seen in action. The reason why its not very viable is because guns kill so fast, its just easier to shoot someone than to try for the risk/reward scenario it owns. Once/ IF TTK is raised, it will actually feel worthwhile using.

Thrusters: This one I can agree does not fit in Halo 5’s sandbox AT THE MOMENT. Combining it with sprint and all of the other mobility abilities, makes it disastrous, as it only makes it easier to escape from losing battles. Losing sprint and nerfing the boost range a little bit would make it balanced IMO, but it would need to see some Beta testing to know for sure.

Spartan Charge: Probably the least game breaking of the abilities (Excluding Slide). Someone would have to figure out how it would be mapped without sprint, however, it could be just combined with thrusters and be the new melee lunge.

Stabilizers: When you ‘Scope-In’ while in the air, you can hover for a couple of seconds. Once you get hit, however, you will descope, your stabilizers will shut off, and you would continue to fall as normal. I believe however, that the normal way of using them should be just replaced with using the optional, “Aim and THEN click your sprint button” because sometimes I like to jump when in shoot outs.

If none of these were to make it to the final game, I can say that I would be totally fine with that. But if they keep some of them, at least make them the bottom ones.

Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.

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> Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.

By any of this I mean removing it or changing it.

> 2533274949606723;2:
> Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.

Yeah, I wrote it on the community letter, but I figured it would be better to share this as a thread so more people could see it.

But hey, its worth a shot anyways.

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> > 2533274949606723;2:
> > Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.
>
>
> Yeah, I wrote it on the community letter, but I figured it would be better to share this as a thread so more people could see it.
>
> But hey, its worth a shot anyways.

Yeah I guess so but if 343 actually removed these unnecessary changes maybe most of the community would be happy.

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> > 2533274829129180;4:
> > > 2533274949606723;2:
> > > Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I wrote it on the community letter, but I figured it would be better to share this as a thread so more people could see it.
> >
> > But hey, its worth a shot anyways.
>
>
> Yeah I guess so but if 343 actually removed these unnecessary changes maybe most of the community would be happy.

We can only hope, I just want Halo to feel good again, AND have a thriving population.
With that being said, it would be very stubborn and ignorant of 343 to ignore these changes.

I can’t take Ground Pound seriously as long as it’s mapped on crouch, not only is it a hinderance for my button layout (bumper jumper) but it also removes crouch jumping.

I don’t mind the abilities as they are. Slide does nothing, charge is easy to avoid, ground pound is more luck than anything…I don’t see any reason to remove them. My gripes are with actual game components, such as killcams, overpowered nades, poor map lighting resulting in nearly invisible blue players, etc.

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> > 2533274949606723;5:
> > > 2533274829129180;4:
> > > > 2533274949606723;2:
> > > > Didn’t you write this on another thread. Either way some very good ideas but I doubt 343 would do any of this.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I wrote it on the community letter, but I figured it would be better to share this as a thread so more people could see it.
> > >
> > > But hey, its worth a shot anyways.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah I guess so but if 343 actually removed these unnecessary changes maybe most of the community would be happy.
>
>
> We can only hope, I just want Halo to feel good again, AND have a thriving population.
> With that being said, it would be very stubborn and ignorant of 343 to ignore these changes.

Isn’t that what everyone wants. If 343 ignores this type of constructive feedback than they shouldn’t be dealing with Halo because clearly Halo is too much for them.

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> I can’t take Ground Pound seriously as long as it’s mapped on crouch, not only is it a hinderance for my button layout (bumper jumper) but it also removes crouch jumping.

I agree, I heard they’re mapping it to the melee button while in the air however.
Maybe they could make it so if you are in melee range while in the air with someone you’ll punch them instead of initiating Ground-Pound?
Or if they got rid of clamber they could just use a double tap A to initiate it?
I don’t know, I wish we could just beta test that.

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> I don’t mind the abilities as they are. Slide does nothing, charge is easy to avoid, ground pound is more luck than anything…I don’t see any reason to remove them. My gripes are with actual game components, such as killcams, overpowered nades, poor map lighting resulting in nearly invisible blue players, etc.

I feel ground-pound isn’t luck based, but more situational based. By that, I mean that you have to be in the situation to get it, being on a higher level and nailing someone who is running trying to recover their shields, or a cat like reflex reversal at someone who is below and shot you first. Its also really good for punishing people who stay too close and clump together. Spartan Charge on the other hand, could be luck based as you could be running around the corner and someone just accidentally runs into you, but I find its really meant for either closing the gap between you and an enemy or cutting a fleeing player off. But yeah, I agree on the point that there are other things that make Halo 5 not as good as it should be, but this thread was just to inform how Spartan abilities could be changed for the better.

No one here is going to like my opinion here but I’m going to have to disagree with you.

Smart scope should be an open scope no gun or arms showing. The spray shouldnt change when scoped.

the sprint needs to be guns up and reduced accuracy or not existant at all. Twitch shooting is for guns down, which Hallo is nott.

slide is fine althouugh we should be able to run, jump and hit the ground sliding.

Slide is fine, its movement based evasion which forces the attacker to respond accordingly, which can be frustrating for people unaccustomed to it.

343i needs to understand, Halo is a tactical based arena shooter. They neeed to leave twitch based mechanics out of it and innovate mechanic under this understanding.

> 2533274829129180;1:
> I will say, after playing the Beta for 2 1/2 weeks, here is my opinion.
> I’ll start off with an analogy;
>
> Halo 4, Still felt like Halo, but a bad one at that.
> Halo 5 is kind of fun, but doesn’t feel as ‘Halo’ as it could be.
>
> Today I will talk about why that is, but for the most part, there are other things keeping it that way, and right now, I am just going to talk about the Spartan Abilities.
> I will say right now that I am Anti-Sprint and that is final. There are many reasons for that, like destroying map design, Cat-and-Mouse gameplay, etc.
>
> But what about the other abilities? Let’s talk about what they should do about them, shall we?
> The following abilities, I believe, should be taken out for the following reasons:
>
> Smart Scope: Not only is it Lore breaking, but game-play breaking too, tightening spread on automatics and precision weapons is something “ADS” would do, and Halo shouldn’t. It really doesn’t serve a purpose other than to pander to the “modern FPS fans”.
>
> Clamber: Rewards you for messing up, something Halo should NEVER do, even gives you a pointless animation just to be an easier target.
>
> Slide: Honestly? Does anyone ever even use this? I mean, just get rid of it, its so pointless. I forget it even exists more than half the time.
>
> With that being said, not ALL spartan abilities are game breaking/ lore breaking/ total rip offs. Here are the only ones that I believe can stay, with a little tuning that is:
>
> Ground-Pound: Yeah, its not the most original in the Spartan arsenal, but not only is it incredibly hard to pull off, but also incredibly satisfying when you do get a kill from it. Its situational to the max, but with that being said, it doesn’t often get seen in action. The reason why its not very viable is because guns kill so fast, its just easier to shoot someone than to try for the risk/reward scenario it owns. Once/ IF TTK is raised, it will actually feel worthwhile using.
>
> Thrusters: This one I can agree does not fit in Halo 5’s sandbox AT THE MOMENT. Combining it with sprint and all of the other mobility abilities, makes it disastrous, as it only makes it easier to escape from losing battles. Losing sprint and nerfing the boost range a little bit would make it balanced IMO, but it would need to see some Beta testing to know for sure.
>
> Spartan Charge: Probably the least game breaking of the abilities (Excluding Slide). Someone would have to figure out how it would be mapped without sprint, however, it could be just combined with thrusters and be the new melee lunge.
>
> Stabilizers: When you ‘Scope-In’ while in the air, you can hover for a couple of seconds. Once you get hit, however, you will descope, your stabilizers will shut off, and you would continue to fall as normal. I believe however, that the normal way of using them should be just replaced with using the optional, “Aim and THEN click your sprint button” because sometimes I like to jump when in shoot outs.
>
> If none of these were to make it to the final game, I can say that I would be totally fine with that. But if they keep some of them, at least make them the bottom ones.

~The only point I give you is “destroying map design.” cat and mouse games happened all the time in 1-3. People escaped form combat in 1-3. Just because there is a literal running animation now doesn’t mean the situation changed. That aside sprint is less of a problem at least for combat due to being tied to your shields. It introduces a risk versus reward mechanic to sprint. Something that halo has always had in the older titles.

~How is it lore breaking? The SS is the spartan using his optical implant to “zoom.” If the simple act of pulling up the scope to aim is lore breaking you’d have to accuse every precision weapon (bar the CE pistol) since halo 1. It gives automatics a reason to be considered when fighting.

~Not in all cases. Some areas are designed for you to clamber. Like a flanking route on truth. Or an alternate path to middle on truth. But it also leaves you exposed when doing so. risk vs reward.

~I use it. More often in breakout then anything. It’s helpful to get into cover quicker.

~Ground pound is fine. You have to bait people into it. That being said you can thruster right after you hit the ground. Since ground pound is supposed to be risky that should get fixed.

~Out of all the AA’s or SA’s we have seen most “pros” or people I’d consider worth listening to think thruster is probably one of the best things 343 has introduced. It’s the most balanced ability and has tactical play potential.

~You can thruster out of charge as well. Should be fixed otherwise it’s fine.

~I actually wouldn’t mind being knocked down if i’m shot. That being said i’m fine with it as is too.

Smart Scope: It doesn’t break the lore because things change over time. This is simply a change in universe, no different from weapons being upgraded or replaced. As for tightening spread, it allows automatics to rightfully get a higher range. Nothing to big, but enough to push them toward mid range which is part of their intended niche. Plus it doesn’t slow you down and you get descoped. Something no other big shooters do with ADS.

Clamber: Perhaps it does reward mistakes occasionally, but it also allows more freedom of movement over obstacles and creates new strategies for taking or controlling power positions. The animation is hardly something that should be mentioned, it happens in less than a second.

Slide: While not a particularly used ability having it is nice as it can come in handy in certain situations if you need to get into cover quicker.

Ground Pound: That’s a fair assessment. Although I feel like it’s more of an ability you use when your opponents utterly suck to humiliate theme.

Spartan Charge: I doubt sprint will be removed and have no quarrels with it so I have nothing really to say here.

Stabilizers: I think you do that now if you set one of your controller settings.

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>
>
> ~The only point I give you is “destroying map design.” cat and mouse games happened all the time in 1-3. People escaped form combat in 1-3. Just because there is a literal running animation now doesn’t mean the situation changed. That aside sprint is less of a problem at least for combat due to being tied to your shields. It introduces a risk versus reward mechanic to sprint. Something that halo has always had in the older titles.
>
> ~How is it lore breaking? The SS is the spartan using his optical implant to “zoom.” If the simple act of pulling up the scope to aim is lore breaking you’d have to accuse every precision weapon (bar the CE pistol) since halo 1. It gives automatics a reason to be considered when fighting.
>
> ~Not in all cases. Some areas are designed for you to clamber. Like a flanking route on truth. Or an alternate path to middle on truth. But it also leaves you exposed when doing so. risk vs reward.
>
> ~I use it. More often in breakout then anything. It’s helpful to get into cover quicker.
>
> ~Ground pound is fine. You have to bait people into it. That being said you can thruster right after you hit the ground. Since ground pound is supposed to be risky that should get fixed.
>
> ~Out of all the AA’s or SA’s we have seen most “pros” or people I’d consider worth listening to think thruster is probably one of the best things 343 has introduced. It’s the most balanced ability and has tactical play potential.
>
> ~You can thruster out of charge as well. Should be fixed otherwise it’s fine.
>
> ~I actually wouldn’t mind being knocked down if i’m shot. That being said i’m fine with it as is too.

  • The difference between escaping in Halos 1-3 is that you had your gun up the whole time so you could shoot someone while they were escaping. I also believe your using risk and reward completely wrong. There is no risk in running away from a fight and towards your teammates so they can gun down your rightful killer. There is no risk for running away from a fight and just luckily getting your killer to die by getting shot by your teammates all the way across the map. There is no risk for losing your attacker and recovering your shields. Just luck, and unrightful reward.
  • It actually IS lore breaking, Uplink Scope in the past games was the way it was because it allowed the user to “use sights” without having to look down the sights of their gun. Why would they go to effort to bring a gun up to their face when they didn’t even need to before? It was a built in neural device that let humans do that. It also makes it so a huge gun wasn’t blocking half of your vision and only the sides got slightly darker, but still visible. So yeah, Humans just went back to using old technology for the sake of “modernizing”… And Automatics shouldn’t be accurate, they’re meant for spray and spray action, with that said, the assautt rifle would be fine alone if they just got rid of bloom and put a none extending reticule! It worked in Halo 3? Why wouldn’t it work in Halo 5?
  • Again, you are using risk and reward, COMPLETELY WRONG. THERE IS NO RISK FOR FAILING A JUMP ONLY TO REGAIN YOUR FOOTING FOR A DUMB ANIMATION THAT TAKES ONE SECOND. Crouch jumping took skill and practice through and through. Whenever I jumped a long gap, and crouch jumped, it pushed me to the edge of my couch, with me thinking, “WILL I MAKE IT!? WILL I MAKE IT!?” and then satisfyingly landing on the other side, or failing, but leaving me thinking, “I could have made that but I just need to get better.” Now all I need to do is jump + thrust + A button = Success. I feel nothing afterwards, and all that feature does is water down the already shallow skill gap the game currently has. Again, features like this ruin map design, because they have to raise levels to accommodate for it.
  • I will admit, breakout is the only time I occasionally use slide because the gametype is built around cover. But even then, I can speak for a majority of the users here when I say that slide just isn’t useful enough to use. It should be taken out, considering it already waters it down with too many of these “modernizing” abilities.
  • Just because the pros say it =/= It is balanced. I’m not going to believe some people who basically are getting paid by 343 to Beta test their game, when most of them are saying, ‘that this game is perfect’. But enough with bias comments. The problem with thrust is that you can hug the near wall when being pursued and then quickly thrust out of sight right around the corner as his pursuer is about to rightfully score his kill. You can also 3 shot someone with a BR, only for them to thrust into cover via a knee jerk reaction, only helping the case that Halo 5 is becoming a twitch shooter. I’m fine with the ability itself, but the point is that its a good idea, that’s poorly executed.
    Although I do agree with the points that I did not highlight in your post, there still is much tuning to do in Halo 5.

OP’s got the idea

I agree. Except for the camber. I use it more as a tool instead of a failsafe. Otherwise great post. Hope 343 can seen it.

@HALLO33N

~And in this game you can shoulder charge a person who’s running away and kill them. And you missed what I was saying. If you took the corner near rockets on the pit and got shot once you could safely turn around and jog your self away. The shooter can pursue and still be baited. Cat and mouse. In halo 4’s “pitfall.” the same exact situation can happen. Except this time there is a run animation. THAT’S what I meant by things being the same. And i’m not using it wrong. If you sprint away after being shot in halo 5 your shields won’t recharge. By running away you risk being gunned down as your helpless and unable to get shields back. That Is clearly a risk. The reward aspect is knowing the right times to sprint. Being it either towards enemies or away. Mastering that reduces your chance of the risk.

~Right. because our screen wasn’t blocked with a giant black box before. Smart scope is literally the spartan using their implant. It’s cannon. For all you know them raising the gun could be for stability perposes. Which would seem to fit since shots become more accurate when you SS. spray and pray? halo and spray and pray don’t mix. Whatever perpose automatics had before it wasn’t good enough. You shouldn’t have clearly ditchable guns. It shows imbalance in the sandbox.

~The risk is being exposed and unable to fight when mid animation. The risk is that you can still fail a jump if you don’t clamber at the right time. ( I do use the hold to clamber and you can still mess up jumps without proper timing.) The reward is using the clamber action at the right time to cut across a map without risk or to flank without being seen. Crouch jumping didn’t take any skill since 90% of the jumps in MP had the same exact timing. The only skillful jumps imo that ever existed were one’s used to break out of maps in campaign. Like in halo 3 on the last level to see the dancing cardboard cutout. It might have took some “skill” but it’s no more then learning the proper time to clamber. Like most skills in halo the skill is learning when to use it. Not being able to do it. (I say this because any seasoned FPS player could master halo’s skills easily. they are simple. But learning when to use them is the hard part.)

~It literally harms nothing. So it doesn’t need to be removed. Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean it should go. I use it frequently.

~If it was a “rightfully earned kill” the shooter would have gotten it. As long as a player isn’t glitching or hacking what he does is fair game. A kill is never your kill until you’ve gotten it. So if someone manages to get away they played better. Fact. Arguing on wether a tactic used is “honorable” or anything of the sort is an entirely other matter. But from your example it seems the thruster person was smart enough to position properly and wait to use his thrust at the right time. That seems smart play to me. Also how do you know it was a knee jerk reaction? That situation you clearly created in your favor. If you had said “a player who was unaware of my presence thrusted into cover when shot” then I could say that’s on reaction. But with your example I could spin it into something that makes him seem like he was playing smart.

Yes halo 5 still has some polishing to be done.

Thruster is good, could even charge faster imo.
Ground pound is good
Spartan charge is fine hasn’t really been exploited although it ruins run punching
Clamber is fine it is built into the maps for some flanking options and general map mobility to replace the jetpack
Could maybe increase health for one extra shot or maybe decrease some fire rates like the br
Want old school rocket launcher design or else a new one that looks better
Want a variety of game modes like Halo 4 such as action sack, heavies, btb heavies, etc
Want the pistol to work like Halo 4 or Reach, hate the pistol smart scope