Take your own advice. I never mentioned ranked.
I said you had played only 7 matches and that this is a troll post or a post my someone who is bad at the game.
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Yes 7 matches of ranked which is pointless because the game is in early access. So itâs obvious that you are looking at ranked matches, because I easily have over 100 in the other modes.
Okay where is your video proof of you getting all these reversals on AR users then?
The burden of proof is on you because you made the initial claim. If you were right it would be easy to demonstrate, but you keep trying to avoid having to provide proof of other kind and trying to offload the burden of proof onto anyone who challenges you.
LOL Like for real you just have to play the game. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see how strong the AR is right now compared to other weapons.
Implying that people who disagree with you are stupid does not make you correct. If you are so obviously correct, as you seem to think, then proving it should be easy. So do it. Stop trying to get others who challenge your statement to accept your burden of proof and prove you wrong when you have yet to provide any evidence that youâre correct.
I was making a point that you talking about my skill or motives for wanting a nerf are outside of the conversation.
You have 37.8% average accuracy, which is utter trash. Your complaining about the AR taking no skill to use when you are barely capable of actually hitting anything is hilarious. Maybe if you could aim you wouldnât be killed by it so often, or would be able to win enough of your AR duels to realize that being able to consistently win them does require skill.
AR is too strong as a starter. THATS ALL
Stop shifting the goalpost; that was not your original claim. The AR loses to the Sidekick at basically any range, and loses to the BR, Bulldog, and a good Commando at anything outside of a specific midrange distance. Not starting with it doesnât accomplish anything other than devaluing it further.
Also yes, being the most forgiving thing tends to be the least skillful because by definition it takes the least amount of skill to consistently get value from it.
It absolutely does not. Getting value means getting kills, and either winning AR duels or beating another weapon outside of the ARâs most effective range requires you to out-play your opponent. The AR is mechanically simple to understand, but it is not easy to be effective with unless everyone youâre playing with doesnât know how to play against it, which isnât hard to do.
Like you have proved anything either LMAO. Ironic.
Stop trying to pretend like youâre accomplishing anything in this debate. You made the claim, therefor you have to prove it or otherwise defend it. You have made a number of posts and have failed to make any valid points whatsoever.
no?
First off you use âRTâ so your a controller user - welcome to aim assist bud.
Secondly its a burst fire weapon that takes 20 bullets to kill.
Meanwhile 4 bursts of BR kills you, from longer ranges.
It does take skill to use. and it is fine how it is, it is finally useful after being worthless for years, and not âoverpoweredâ to be nerfed.
Sidekick is used all the freakin time, you must just not be paying attention or only on BTB games where you have WAY MORE OPTIONS than either starting weapon.
lol halo 2 and halo 3 was like that and they were the best⌠a good AR with medium/bad magnum , the game is cool like that , and you can search in map for BR⌠its not because halo 5 was stupid with a magnum op that halo infinite have to do the same s***.
I donât have to make a video for you at all it can be proven with weapon stats. AR has a faster TTK than everything thatâs not a one shot or shotgun. It takes 15-20 shots to kill, and if you average 18 per kill you can kill 2 fully shielded enemies with 1 clip. It has a range of what most precision weapons had in previous Halo games. It outclasses so many other weapons in the sandbox at mid-close range (or mid-long range if it is a close range weapon) that itâs really not worth to pick up some and drop your AR. Itâs like, have AR have BR or power weapon and you are set.
No Iâm implying that anyone who is stupid is fully capable of wielding an AR, as it takes no skill. Which is fine EXCEPT FOR THE FACT YOU START WITH IT IN STANDARD 4v4!
Yes because I will get in a Warthog or the plasma turret and just hold down the trigger for 5 minutes LMAO But yes keep looking at my stats. I care so much about them that they should matter in an online debate about not giving a borderline power weapon to people at the start of the game.
Burst fire? Bro just hold the trigger point the crosshair and walk at them. You need to do nothing more, if they mess up in the slightest or have a ranged weapon you just win the fight.
Also it can take as low as 15, with 36 in a clip that means you can optimally kill 2 people and still miss 6 bullets.
You guys seem to be under the impression I donât know how to use any other weapon. I can use all the weapons just fine, I just find it ridiculous they START YOU with a weapon that is so powerful it basically removes a large chunk of the skill out of the game. In BTB itâs fine but in standard 4v4 itâs not. It just makes the game feel lame because you are pushed into using a weapon that isnât very skillful to use if you want to keep up.
Show me where I asked for it to be nerfed. All I said is you should not START with an AR in standard 4v4.
Move around a little, get a feel for it, then go meet me in the whambulanceâŚ
Ever try like jumping strafing or throwing a grenade?
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BR beats AR at medium range hands down if you aim for the head.
Okay you and me one on one with nothing but ARs and whatch me own you most of the time because you just walked straight at me like a zombie with no brains
Yeah I do think itâs effective range needs reduced a tad.
I donât perceive it to behave much different than the last one. It even has a very similar display on the gun.
AR has a faster TTK if BR guy misses just 1 bullet in a burst they are dead.
Hence why it is a skillless weapon. If you can punish one of the best weapons in the game consistently, where you barely have to try while the BR guy has to have perfect aim, then maybe the gun is a bit too strong to start with eh?
Zero skill to use the AR is an overstatement, though I will admit my belief that the ARâs bloom, bullet magnetism, and low recoil combined with its high rate of fire means that takes very little skill to use effectively when comparing to other weapons whilst exceling at its role [intended range].
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AR has a faster TTK than everything thatâs not a one shot or shotgun. It takes 15-20 shots to kill, and if you average 18 per kill you can kill 2 fully shielded enemies with 1 clip.
So basically, it kills faster than anything that is designed for utility over lethality, or that doesnât outright kill you immediately. Itâs almost like it does exactly what it should do, save being able to pin down snipers from accross the map, which is really its only design issue.
No Iâm implying that anyone who is stupid is fully capable of wielding an AR, as it takes no skill. Which is fine EXCEPT FOR THE FACT YOU START WITH IT IN STANDARD 4v4!
So what should you start with instead? The Sidekick? A weapon that kills even faster and only arguably requires more skill to use? Haivng the press a button repeatedly to fire is not a significantly higher-ordered dexterity skill than holding a button, especially when you donât need to pace your shots with the Sidekick at all (save maybe the last one to ensure the headshot) because its bloom only has a meaningful impact outside of its effective range.
Consistently beat Sidekicks, BRs, Bulldogs, or other ARs with the AR requires range and bloom management, which is a higher-ordered timing skill (that also requires more knowledge of weapon match-ups and spacial dynamics) than pressing a button repeatedly is a dexterity skill. This is why understanding skill as a concept is required to determine how much or how little skill a game element requires to execute effectively. Just because you can just hold down the trigger and get kills with the AR doesnât mean that it requires no skill, because doing so will not win engagements with any kind of consistently, and being able to consistently secure kills without dying is the whole point.
The skill floor of a weapon doesnât matter. The minimum amount of skill required to earn kills with a weapon does not matter if more skillful execution can result in more consistent kills.
I care so much about them that they should matter in an online debate about not giving a borderline power weapon to people at the start of the game.
âŚwhich is a point you still have yet to give any kind of valid support through evidence or explanation, and yet keep insisting is true just because you say so.
Burst fire? Bro just hold the trigger point the crosshair and walk at them. You need to do nothing more, if they mess up in the slightest or have a ranged weapon you just win the fight.
This is flat-out, objectively, demonstrably wrong. And how do you win if the opponent does the same thing? You control your fire, because itâs more effective and efficient and will result in more consistent wins. Almost like being effective with the AR does require skill. And if youâre repeatedly engaging in encounters where the ARâs decaying accuracy doesnât matter, then youâre playing poorly. Why does it matter what works when youâre playing poorly and inviting loss?
Also it can take as low as 15, with 36 in a clip that means you can optimally kill 2 people and still miss 6 bullets.
Youâll miss way more than 6 bullets if youâre just holding the trigger down. Thatâs what makes it a sub-optimal strategy. It also uses more ammo, forcing you to reload more frequently, often at inopportune times.
removes a large chunk of the skill out of the game.
Actual skill results in consistent success and effectiveness. Using the AR sub-optimally by just holding the trigger down does not result consistent success. So more skilled players who can use the weapon more effectively will be more effective than those who use it sub-optimally. How is that removing skill?
Show me where I asked for it to be nerfed. All I said is you should not START with an AR in standard 4v4.
So what should you start with and why? And why is there incentive to pick up the AR when you start with a weapon that is more than likely even more effective?
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Yes AND YOU START WITH IT! Hard concept but we will get into it more it seemsâŚ
Yes as Iâve said many times now including the OP or do you just not actually read what other people write?
Yes it does require more skill.
LOL Yes it is. You can miss 5 bullets with SK, thatâs 42% of your clip. Where you only need to miss 6 with AR (17%) AND you can still potentially kill 2 players. You 100% need to pace your shots with SK outside of like 5m or you will lose the fight.
YoU nEeD tO gIvE pRoOf oF yOuR cLaImS
LMAO
You keep talking about bloom management on AR, WTF game are you playing dude? I literally have been using nothing but AR, BR and power weapons for the last 2 days. Not once did I ever have to feather the trigger or pace my shots with AR outside of the guy just breaking LOS completely. Literally just hold RT and point the crosshair at them. Feathering the trigger in any capacity just slows down your TTK.
Itâs like you seriously donât even play the game and just want to be right at this point.
SK takes substantially more skill to use than AR. In fact, every weapon in the sandbox does outside of RL or Sentinel Beam (which is IMO just a stronger version of the AR). And these things are fine, itâs only a problem because you START with the AR. As a pickup AR is fine.
You say SK takes equal amount of skill, where is your evidence of that? Where is the video proof?
Or you know, you could be a reasonable person that plays the video game and understands that a starting weapon that can kill 2 people in a clip yet still allow you to miss, has a faster TTK then most of the sandbox, and has range comparable to a BR doesnât take as much skill as you claim. In fact it takes none to use effectively. But ya know, seems like you just wanna hold your head high here and say âI WAS RIGHT!â instead of acknowledging what is actually quite obvious to even the casual player.
LOL âdemonstratably wrongâ It is literally what the weapon was designed to do. Again anyone that played the game for more than an hour knows this, you just are being stubborn at this point.
Then you trade? Not sure what youâd expect to happen. If you both do the same thing in any case, itâs a trade.
Or you just stop overcomplicating things and hold RT because âcontrol fireâ is completely unnecessary at the range where majority of fights take place. Itâs almost like you purposely use AR wrong so you can sit there and say itâs bad.
Uhhh⌠so if Iâm winning most of my fights with AR by just holding RT and aiming well Iâm playing poorly? Wow thatâs interesting. Tell me more.
Iâm talking about missing 6 bullets and still being able to KILL 2 PEOPLE! You can actually miss 16, almost half the clip, and still kill someone.
Yes the enemy is dead now is a bad time to reload. GeeâŚ
Yes it does LOL. Like I said Iâve been using AR almost exclusively for the last few days and my results are VERY consistent. In fact way more consistent than every other weapon, including BR. Miss 1 bullet of a burst with BR you just increased ttk by up to a 1/4 second. Miss 1 bullet with AR itâs like less than a hundreth of a second. IDK what this using AR sub-optimally is. It just sounds like maybe you are using it wrong, because all you need to do is hold RT and aim decently to win most fights.
Sidekick like I said numerous times. Again you fail to read. And itâs only more effective if you have the SKILL to make it more effective. Additionally, there are limits on itâs effectiveness, much more than on AR. The incentive to pick up AR would be to pick up a weapon thatâs braindead easy to use and very powerful in most situations.
Again everything you write just sounds like you donât know how to actually use AR (or use it so infrequently you just assume things about it). You keep making statements that ignore the obvious issue with AR as a starter, statements which BTW you never validate as you ask me to do. Anyone that plays Halo Infinite multiplayer for more than an hour would realize how to use an AR, point hold RT. Itâs that simple, why you overcomplicate it with bloom management and pacing shots and all this other BS is beyond me. None of that matters at the end of the day because all you need to do is hold RT, aim at the body and walk forward. Unless the other player is cracked you will most likely win the fight. If they have SK or BR and miss even a few shots you just won. Itâs really that simple and how you canât acknowledge this just tells me youâd rather be the one to win the argument than actually face the facts about AR.
Yes it does require more skill.
How can you make this claim when you fundamentally understand absolutely nothing about skill in video games? Still waiting for you to cite the 5 pillars that govern video game skill.
LOL Yes it is. You can miss 5 bullets with SK, thatâs 42% of your clip. Where you only need to miss 6 with AR (17%) AND you can still potentially kill 2 players.
Youâre completely ignoring the rate of accuracy decay.
You 100% need to pace your shots with SK outside of like 5m or you will lose the fight.
Provide evidence. You still carry the burden of proof. Why are you so afraid of actually demonstrating your points with concrete evidence? Is it because you canât demonstrate it because youâre wrong?
YoU nEeD tO gIvE pRoOf oF yOuR cLaImS
Burden of proof is on you. You made the initial claim and have yet to provide any evidence. Your entire defense thus far has been âno youâre wrong.â
Not once did I ever have to feather the trigger or pace my shots with AR outside of the guy just breaking LOS completely. Literally just hold RT and point the crosshair at them. Feathering the trigger in any capacity just slows down your TTK.
Then youâre playing against scrubs who donât understand the fundamental concepts of playing the game. Try that against high-ranking Diamond and Onyx players. No competent player will engage at range where holding the trigger and hoping for the best is the optimal strategy, because it compromises your ability to leverage skill and turn the odds in your favor. Balance occurs from the top down, not the bottom up.
Itâs like you seriously donât even play the game and just want to be right at this point.
Iâve played 421 matches compared to your 260 matches.
It is literally what the weapon was designed to do.
And can you provide design documents or developer statements to confirm this?
Then you trade? Not sure what youâd expect to happen. If you both do the same thing in any case, itâs a trade.
And how is that a viable strategy if you gain no advantage? Youâre saying that the weapon is overpowered for a starting weapon because of sub-optimal strategies.
Or you just stop overcomplicating things and hold RT because âcontrol fireâ is completely unnecessary at the range where majority of fights take place.
âŚunless you know how to play and understand spacial dynamics and weapon interactions.
Uhhh⌠so if Iâm winning most of my fights with AR by just holding RT and aiming well Iâm playing poorly? Wow thatâs interesting. Tell me more.
If youâre winning engagements by playing sub-optimally, then your opponents are trash. And you said it yourself: that if your opponent does the same then you trade. Why trade when more skillful play will allow you to win decisively? So we should drop the AR as a starting weapon because low-skill players donât know how to win consistently with it against competent players?
Iâm talking about missing 6 bullets and still being able to KILL 2 PEOPLE! You can actually miss 16, almost half the clip, and still kill someone.
So demonstrate it. Take a video of you just holding the trigger down in the firing range against moving targets and consistently killing two without reloading.
Yes the enemy is dead now is a bad time to reload. GeeâŚ
Theyâre dead and their teammate is there to mop you up because your close-range engagement has sacrificed your defensive positioning.
Like I said Iâve been using AR almost exclusively for the last few days and my results are VERY consistent.
Anecdotal individual claims are irrelevant. Provide evidence. Share your theater footage.
Sidekick like I said numerous times. Again you fail to read.
Iâm reading them, I just disregard all of your unsubstantiated nonsense.
statements which BTW you never validate as you ask me to do.
Because I didnât make the initial claim. A claim isnât true until itâs proven false, itâs false until proven true.
why you overcomplicate it with bloom management and pacing shots and all this other BS is beyond me
Because Iâm in a division where Iâm playing against people who know how to play around base, low-skill strategies.
aim at the body and walk forward
âŚand in doing so reduce the chances of a clear victory by diminishing the influence of accuracy decay. People holding the trigger and walking straight at you is exactly why you keep your distance: because youâll be at a clear advantage once their accuracy tanks halfway into the clip.
If they have SK or BR and miss even a few shots you just won.
Unless they understand spacing. What works against poor players is irrelevant. You balance around elite players who play optimally, not around low-skill players. |
Itâs really that simple and how you canât acknowledge this just tells me youâd rather be the one to win the argument than actually face the facts about AR.
You say this as if youâve made some kind of point. You havenât.
The fact you cling so heavily to this says maybe you donât know what skill is in a video game. Just because someone writes a book or something on the internet does not make it valid.
Literally not even going to read the rest because you donât care about good design you care about winning the argument.
Oh thanks you just gave me the W. Admitted AR takes no skill.
GG no re.
EDIT: Also you donât have to be a top tier player to see how strong AR is and why it might be a bad idea to have it as a starter in 4v4 modes. Additionally, if the pros werenât so BR centric then they would explore the idea of SK starts with 1 grenade, no grenade hit markers, and motion detection only for sprinting and shooting. Because ultimately that is where the game SHOULD go for a competitive setup, as it is something that could potentially just be made the universal settings for the game.
Competitive Halo is going to die like it did several times before. Competitive CE/2/3 was close enough to the base game that the scene was very accessible to the average player. Later Halos had such a sharp distinction between standard and competitive settings that it might as well be a different game at that point. And nothing says âaccessibilityâ like asking people to play with different settings that the standard. Trust me if the pros had any kind of foresight they would go this route, but pros are content with their version of the game and donât care that itâs not very accessible to new blood. I know several profession gamers personally (like they make an actual living on the game they play) and the way they think about the game is not in the sense of âgood designâ but âgood for competitive playâ. Those things can be the same or they can be different.
Oh and one more thingâŚ
If we are measuring, well I was rank 50 in Halo 2 Slayer, Team Slayer and Team Snipers back on the ORIGINAL Xbox. I might very well have more time in the first 3 games than you have in the entire series, competitive gaming included. So maybe donât go around spewing this kind of ish like it matters please and thank you.
No it definitely takes skill if you arenât at close range, have to space longer bursts or bloom destroys you
It really doesnât. You can hold the trigger on someone outside your motion detector and still kill them fast enough that they are dead if they miss even a little with BR.
Well the motion detector is horribly small so that isnât a great comparison, thatâs the distance Sidekick spam shots melt nonstop at because you hardly miss
Still that is much farther range than any previous ARs. And it continues beyond that. Point being it is not suitable for a starter. In a 1v1 you can hold the trigger and pressure the opponent so much with no effort. If they mess up in the slightest you win the fight. Thatâs the issue with the weapon, itâs braindead and skill-less yet everyone starts with it. I found itâs just better to use AR and win more fights consistently than rely on SK except for a headshot on someone without a shield. Because itâs just not worth the effort to use it as a primary weapon in any capacity when your opponent can so easily punish your mistakes.