Sooner is better than later...

Personally I would prefer to be getting into the gameplay aspects now through trailers and ViDocs or articles etc.

Looking over the history of game development everything used to be closed off and a game was released, now we see game developers blogging, showing concept art and generally getting feedback from their communities.

I want to see 343 take things a step further and actually integrate this type of feedback more tightly into the development process. This will ensure a more dynamic polishing and development cutting choices etc.

Don’t have the fans dictate but integrate the majority on important game mechanics or features.

For example each beta of Halo 3 & Reach we’ve seen the game mechanics/features at say 90-95% so the developer has some tidbits hidden enticing us to want to buy the full game etc.

When you review the differences between those beta and full release versions there simply is little difference. Why? The answer is time and development requirements.

So I pose 343 move things sooner rather than later and look to maximise community feedback and their ability to alter game mechanics or features without already having a 90-98% finished game.

The announcement trailer is great but having nothing else since is making things later down the track, so we’ll get another beta most likely and it will have little feedback taken into account. Basically just bug and network testing rather than actual community input into development and game features.

Sure I understand the commercial reasons things are kept secret but I feel there is opportunity for pioneering game development in being more open. After all the multiplayer is more what we are talking about here. So keep the campaign story under lock and key etc but get some gameplay mechanics out for the community to interact with.

The later this occurs the more risk you have in polarising the community and having new game additions akin to Reach that further split the multiplayer community etc.

After all the debates about campaign gameplay are few and far between, that side of debating is reserved more for canon and story elements.

Let us move into sooner for the sake of the next Halo trilogy.

I agree

I agree with this 100 percent.
but if 343 wanted a game that was perfect for the fans they would askthe fans what they want in the game, 343i is keeping everything secret and they know what we want…

> I agree with this 100 percent.
> but if 343 wanted a game that was perfect for the fans they would askthe fans what they want in the game, 343i is keeping everything secret and they know what we want…

I certainly understand you can’t please everyone and the final release game is best left to the expert developers.

That said, however, I would like to see a “sooner and more integrated community” involvement regarding Halo 4 beta or community feedback, rather than just bug/network testing.

This type of open development would be more progressive for Halo 4 game development and lead to a more competitive, maximum player base and increase player retention long after the final game release.

I have to agree with you. I’d like to see the fans have more involvement, but not dictate the development. Something similar to Megaman Legends 3 (before it was canceled) how the fans got to vote on the final design of Megaman from various pieces of concept art.

I’d like the info now before it’s too late to change while we can still have input on it. I know Halo 4 is a year away, but why not start spilling the beans soon? Why even announce it if we get no new info for almost a half of a year?

I disagree. The sooner 343 reveals more information, the sooner people are going to start demanding more morsels.

Do you honestly think that after 343 releases another piece of media or information, that this community will wait another 6 months for more? No. In fact, it wouldn’t be too long after that people start demanding more to satiate their demands.

And they’ll demand more. And more.

> > I agree with this 100 percent.
> > but if 343 wanted a game that was perfect for the fans they would askthe fans what they want in the game, 343i is keeping everything secret and they know what we want…
>
> I certainly understand you can’t please everyone and the final release game is best left to the expert developers.
>
> That said, however, I would like to see a “sooner and more integrated community” involvement regarding Halo 4 beta or community feedback, rather than just bug/network testing.
>
> This type of open development would be more progressive for Halo 4 game development and lead to a more competitive, maximum player base and increase player retention long after the final game release.

That can be dangerous to let the community dictate too much. It is not possible to please everyone, and trying to do so is a great way to fail on all fronts. I believe the reason that the Spartan Laser wasn’t implemented as much, and why vehicles became weaker, was because of complaints from the community. While it was great of Bungie to change this; it shows that they did listen to some extent, it had the negative effect of maps like Hemorrhage not having proper power weapons to deal with the tanks, and vehicles like the Warthog and Ghost being pathetically weak.

While I constantly express that I want Halo 4’s multiplayer to be similar to Halo 2 and 3, to restore faith in the Halo name that Reach has tarnished, and to get population back, I want Halo to advance as well. I can guarantee that there are many in the community who would want Halo to remain in the safe zone and for 343 to copy and paste the multiplayer experience, with remakes of favoured maps being the order of the day. For the long term, I don’t want that. If 343 ends up listening to the wrong people, Halo could stagnant.

Megaman Legends 3 is an example of how game companies still can’t successfully integrate heavy community involvement into game development. Eventually, though. Eventually…

> I disagree. The sooner 343 reveals more information, the sooner people are going to start demanding more morsels.
>
> Do you honestly think that after 343 releases another piece of media or information, that this community will wait another 6 months for more? No. In fact, it wouldn’t be too long after that people start demanding more to satiate their demands.
>
> And they’ll demand more. And more.

You are missing the point…

It is not to just get another release of a trailer or some gameplay video. We are requesting a more involved community interaction with the development process.

This entails more releases and polls or forums for game assets and features. Keep the campaign story to the developer but the game mechanics and multiplayer including some weapons, maps, graphics, textures, concept art etc should be opened up and enter phase like this -

  1. Developer/designer concept shown with dot points.
  2. Polls only for immediate community feedback with automated data collation etc
  3. Developer iteations
  4. Community forums and developer staff to -Yoinks!- merits and popular opinions to be weighted.
  5. internal alpha with public beta
  6. community feedback
    7 final release.

Oh look the Bungie mythical 7 appeared again…

More on this thread…

The further we get towards game or beta release this year the less involvement and feedback from the community gets integrated into the game development lifecycle.

I’m sure the Bungie forums, feedback and now 343i forums are being trawled by game designers, play testers, concept artists etc. but when are we going to receive some feedback about things?

It would be nice to have some dedicated filter staff to interact with on these forums/polls and have that data feed directly back to the development staff.

Why not have in-game and forum voting polls almost daily. The data is auto-collated and would provide valuable feedback in a uniform way.

It’s starting to concern me that a game in development for 2-4 years already has nothing of the actual game nor any community feedback during development. Anyone else feel that way?

Personally, I’d rather they spend there time doing debugging on Halo 4, since we all know how well that went for bungie with reach. Considering 343 have said they are using parts from the reach engine.

The mere fact they haven’t even confirmed a beta worries me.

Patience is a virtue, I like all my games nice and tightly wrapped until I’m ready to play them. Having all these releases and early access ruins the initial experience I get from playing games, when I played the beta, it was amazing, but the I got reach and it was no surprise that it felt to comfortable to me, I want a new experience each time I purchase game, having early tid bits and access is like ruling a plot in a book.

> Patience is a virtue, I like all my games nice and tightly wrapped until I’m ready to play them. Having all these releases and early access ruins the initial experience I get from playing games, when I played the beta, it was amazing, but the I got reach and it was no surprise that it felt to comfortable to me, I want a new experience each time I purchase game, having early tid bits and access is like ruling a plot in a book.

Betas are essential to make sure as many glitches and bugs are detected as soon as possible. Some will still remain, but I’d rather have an experience that isn’t completely overburdened by bugs. Look at MW2, I don’t want Halo to have it’s own Javelin glitch.

Also considering 343 is still an untested studio, they don’t deserve the luxury of being overly secretive.

> I disagree. The sooner 343 reveals more information, the sooner people are going to start demanding more morsels.
>
> Do you honestly think that after 343 releases another piece of media or information, that this community will wait another 6 months for more? No. In fact, it wouldn’t be too long after that people start demanding more to satiate their demands.
>
> And they’ll demand more. And more.

People can “demand” whatever they want, all 343 has to do is stick to a schedule and ignore the complainers.

Let them demand, the game is coming out either way.

> > I disagree. The sooner 343 reveals more information, the sooner people are going to start demanding more morsels.
> >
> > Do you honestly think that after 343 releases another piece of media or information, that this community will wait another 6 months for more? No. In fact, it wouldn’t be too long after that people start demanding more to satiate their demands.
> >
> > And they’ll demand more. And more.
>
> People can “demand” whatever they want, all 343 has to do is stick to a schedule and ignore the complainers.
>
> Let them demand, the game is coming out either way.

Apathy isn’t something developers should have.

As long as they don’t release a severely limited demo (a la Reach demo) with an uninteresting campaign level (it shouldn’t come after the 5th mission and a vehicular mission as the featured level would be preferable given the H2 E3 demo, the Halo PC demo, Tsavo Highway being the featured mission of H3 Epsilon, and LNoS (when it had the Ghost) being the featured mission of the Reach E3 demo).

If they release a demo, it should at least have:

-save and quit
-silver skulls
-basic customization (armor selection, color, service tag, emblem)

Theater would be a nice bonus and I’d probably want to buy H4 even more if it was included.

As for a Beta, I don’t really mind. I’m not a mp person.

I’m all for the developers having utmost important, veto abilities, creative license and overall creative/development control.

I and many other Halo fans seek a Halo game development cycle that involves the community to shape things with the developer, not control the developer.