Something is off... Not sure what.

I’m not sure if anyone else has noticed. But once the “hype” of the weapon tuning update wears off, I’ve started to notice something… off, or wrong about the game.

Yeah everything is balanced now in a sense. But they balanced it effectively by making the game so lightning fast you can’t tell the difference between one weapon or another. Power Weapons are practically meaningless with the current killtime of standard weapons. At least when you take current aim assist into account. The buffed movement speed may have helped to regulate player movement a bit. But because Power Weapons have slim to no aim assist compared to spawning weapons, it has made them so painfully tedious to use, that for the most part you are more likely to get a quick kill with your trusty BR.

It just feels more like a chaotic cluster____ than a skill based arena shooter, especially on maps designed to cooperate with Sprint at 100% movement speed instead of 110%. Especially when things like instant respawn, and the painfully long shield regeneration time are also taken into account. I’ve even noticed the change in player mentality. Instead of setups and map control, the most effective strategies are to either hole up together in a small room with a player in each corner and wait like spiders in a web, or to traverse the map in a gigantic wolf pack, where “strength in numbers” and being in super-close proximity to teammates is not threatened by grenades, explosive power weapons, or most importantly of all friendly fire.

As well, a player’s limited reaction time pretty much turns the average one on one engagement into “first to shoot, first to kill” meaning if you get jumped, you’re for most intents and purposes screwed. In every single other Halo game, you always had the opportunity to turn the fight around. But in Halo 4 post-update, too many factors lead to fast killtimes that are simply too easy to achieve.

And then there’s the problem of playing on the game’s smaller maps. On Haven, Adrift, Skyline, and even Landfall, the increased movement speed makes it unbelievably easy to run away from an engagement and survive. It’s actually worse than Reach in that respect, and Reach didn’t have shot-flinch on sprinting players.

The Halo 4 sandbox, mapset, and overall gameplay does NOT support increased killtimes, at least not without also making radical adjustments to the game’s maps, physics, and more minor details like aim assist and netcode (I’ve noticed radical complaints about inconsistency since the update, which is pretty obviously related to the game’s already pretty shoddy connection being incapable of handling shot registration in tandem with the increased movement speed). In a nutshell having a better connection, or living closer to the servers, is now giving players an advantage we haven’t seen since some of the laggier games in Halo 2 and 3.

It’s just not working out. Halo 4 needs a complete overhaul for the current weapon settings to work properly. Yes they function bearably in LAN. But on Xbox Live it’s kind of a mess. I’d suggest doing what pretty much everyone suggested in the first place, and simply nerfind the DMR instead of buffing everything else. And next time, make a game WITHOUT Sprint so that you can design maps that support fast base movement speed, and then make a game with a half decent connection (and preferrably dedicated servers) so that you can minimize aim assist, which would in turn support faster killtimes. And for the love of god implement SOMETHING so that the fast killtimes aren’t so easy to achieve a baby could 4 shot. Halo CE had very minimal aim assist, and non-hitscan weapons. Halo 2 had excellent map design, and button glitches to separate the good players from the bad. and Halo 3 had Bullet Travel, so it actually took effort and practice to consistently perform well. Halo 4 has basically nothing to turn every firefight into a measure of skill, and the slower killtimes served to give players the reaction time they needed to change a fight into their favour, as there is so little chance of enemy player error to happen.

I’m sorry, I hate to say it. I’m all for a fast paced Halo. But Halo 4 simply does not have the capacity to support it without a major overhaul to the engine. Next time focus on making a HALO game, and not trying to evolve the franchise unnecessarily, and you will give the fans what they ACTUALLY want and maintain an actually respectable population 6 months after launch.

Fair enough assessment.

I hated using power weapons even before the update. Because the skill it takes to use a power weapon is too much compared to a standard one.

The game itself isn’t really designed with these mechanics in mind either, but we can’t just undo the weapon changes now.

I’ve noticed this since day one. There’s really no perfect way to balance this game out due to the way it’s set up, but like Ramirez said above, you just have to work with what you’ve got at this point. Hopefully Halo 5 will work out better, and with more community input/feedback taken into account.

Hey, you asked for it.

Also, you’re wrong about Reach. You did flinch when you would get shot while sprinting.

i agree bro,ive bn playing h4 since its release and it seems like its proggresivly gotten worse over time which is unfortunate.i switchd back to halo reach yesterday.

> Hey, you asked for it.
>
> Also, you’re wrong about Reach. You did flinch when you would get shot while sprinting.

Far as I could tell only in the Beta. And I used Sprint 99.9% of the games I played in Reach. Only time I didn’t was when it wasn’t available, or when I had a choice of Evade.

Also, I never asked for the weapon tuning to happen this way. I was one of the ones speaking out that it wouldn’t work to buff the other weapons, and that nerfing the DMR was a better solution.

> > Hey, you asked for it.
> >
> > Also, you’re wrong about Reach. You did flinch when you would get shot while sprinting.
>
> Far as I could tell only in the Beta. And I used Sprint 99.9% of the games I played in Reach. Only time I didn’t was when it wasn’t available, or when I had a choice of Evade.
>
> Also, I never asked for the weapon tuning to happen this way. I was one of the ones speaking out that it wouldn’t work to buff the other weapons, and that nerfing the DMR was a better solution.

It’s still there in the final build. It’s just that everyone wanted to limit the game down to just the DMR, which has a slower firing rate then say the AR. Rather then the “flinch” being effected by the power of the weapon, it was based on each hit, so a weapon with a faster firing rate would end up causing the player to flinch more often. Even happens during a jump. I still remember having my jumps messed up in Infection by one stray bullet hitting my leg. It’s just not as “strong” as it is in Halo 4.

Yeah well, 343i is new to being a developer and think that the vocal minority speaks for everyone.

You guys realize that Classic Halo always had killtimes like this, right?

> Also, I never asked for the weapon tuning to happen this way. I was one of the ones speaking out that it wouldn’t work to buff the other weapons, and that nerfing the DMR was a better solution.

Well, everyone was hoping that the classic 4sk BR would return, and yet failed to realize that the game wouldn’t be able to support the way the gun was originally supposed to work because a kill time as fast as that was not what the game was built for. Nerfing the DMR may have been easier on the coder’s part, but looking back at how poorly the other guns behaved(specifically the carbine), maybe not.

Still, I personally believe that two of the main reasons as to why kill times are faster now is due to shield recharge rate, which has a significantly longer delay than it did in Halos 2 and 3(this makes players less likely to survive longer periods of time since their shields can’t recharge fast enough), and sprint, which combined with 110% movement speed makes the game play faster than what it should. But we already know that sprint isn’t going anywhere, so forget about slowing gameplay that way…

And movement speed can’t slow down either now, because without it strafing doesn’t work properly. It’s like the perfect storm for halo…

> You guys realize that Classic Halo always had killtimes like this, right?

Yes, but classic Halo’s physics, aim assist mechanics, and map design were all created with killtimes like this in mind.

Most confrontations in Halo CE didn’t end in 3 shots, because the Magnum was extremely difficult to aim with.

Most fights in Halo 3 didn’t end in 4 shots, because Bullet Travel created a skill gap that even pros had a hard time perfecting the 4 shot with.

Halo 2’s amazing map design turned the game into kind of a ballet, and made each confrontation uniquely awesome and skill based.

Halo 4 has none of those things. And because of that, these killtimes simply don’t work. The most important problem is the maps. But ridiculous aim assist levels and the insanity of 110% sprint and instant respawn just make it feel wrong.

> Halo CE had very minimal aim assist, and non-hitscan weapons.

Halo CE had high aim assist and non-hitscan weapons. The game was more difficult than modern Halo games for other reasons than aim assist. That said, aim assist could certainly be lowered, and I believe it’s the main factor why faster kill times in Halo 4 are problematic.

I still think kill times should stay as they were set in the update. But the update itself did little to alleviate the actual problem the precision weapons suffer from which is incredible ease of actually coming close to the fastest possible kill time. That extremely small difference between the fastest possible and the average kill time is the problem, and it could probably be solved purely with aim assist tweaks on precision weapons.

I can’t think of a single power weapon that is worthless other than maybe the Scattershot, but that weapon was bad even before the update. Weapon kill times are now on par with H2 and power weapons weren’t worthless on that game.

H2 also had by far the most aim assist and bullet magnetism in the series, but what made it kind of ok was the movement speeds. Before this update I was calling for a reduction in assist/magnetism levels, but now that player movement speed has been bumped it is less of an issue.

> i agree bro,ive bn playing h4 since its release and it seems like its proggresivly gotten worse over time which is unfortunate.i switchd back to halo reach yesterday.

No offense man, but why are you in the halo 4 section of the forum when you “switched games”?

What needs to happen now is either Halo 5/4.5 or another radical title update.

I never played matchmaking until Reach, so I’m going off of what smart people have said.

If they did another TU - which isn’t very likely - player health needs a buff and aim assist needs to be increased on certain power weapons and decreased on all the precision loadout weapons. Shield capacity needs a slight buff as well, and the recharge speed needs a slight buff as well. This way the current damage ratios could be kept, but player vitality and ability to recover after a firefight would be there instead of being next to nothing before.

This also means weapons may/may not need a slight damage boost, but only on certain ones, to keep a one-shot kill in place. Explosives radius needs to be buffed on the RL and Fuel Rod, and nerfed on the good ol’ Inferno-Incinerator-Powerhouse-of-Doom.

Well, that’s my take - player movement speed and instant spawn are good in my opinion, and keep the game flowing. On a side note, why the pinkles does it take, like, fifteen seconds for weapons to despawn? Bring back moments where you could cross a map and still find your power weapon.

> > Halo CE had very minimal aim assist, and non-hitscan weapons.
>
> Halo CE had high aim assist and non-hitscan weapons. The game was more difficult than modern Halo games for other reasons than aim assist. That said, aim assist could certainly be lowered, and I believe it’s the main factor why faster kill times in Halo 4 are problematic.
>
> I still think kill times should stay as they were set in the update. But the update itself did little to alleviate the actual problem the precision weapons suffer from which is incredible ease of actually coming close to the fastest possible kill time. That extremely small difference between the fastest possible and the average kill time is the problem, and it could probably be solved purely with aim assist tweaks on precision weapons.

CE had high levels of aim friction but low levels of bullet magnetism and had a faster strafe. Halo 4 needs a red reticule angle reduction on the precision weapons pronto or else these faster kill times have no chance of working.

The Kill times currently compound the need for de-scoping, 100m battles being consistently ended in 1.2 seconds is a joke. Shields don’t recharge fast enough for these damage setting. The magnum, concussion riffle, scattershot, plasma pistol, gravity hammer, neddler and pulse grenades all need buffs now.

110% movement has never worked well in Halo 4. It is the equivalent of playing 120% + sprint in Reach. The raise weapon delay after sprinting is now far too punishing. Sprinting players are now zipping around the map at 180% movement speed, (27mph) which is absurd. It is Usain bolt territory. Speed boost is now insane. Increased movement speed has made it even more necessary for instant respawn to be disabled.

I think a lot of work needs to be done to accommodate the 4 shot BR. I thought the DMRs 1.53 second kill time fitted fine but the BRs current 1.37s is too fast. I still maintain the best solution for the balancing problems in Halo 4 was to make both the DMR and BR have 1.6s kill times both being a 5 shot kill.

> I’m not sure if anyone else has noticed. But once the “hype” of the weapon tuning update wears off, I’ve started to notice something… off, or wrong about the game.
>
> Yeah everything is balanced now in a sense. But they balanced it effectively by making the game so lightning fast you can’t tell the difference between one weapon or another. Power Weapons are practically meaningless with the current killtime of standard weapons. At least when you take current aim assist into account. The buffed movement speed may have helped to regulate player movement a bit. But because Power Weapons have slim to no aim assist compared to spawning weapons, it has made them so painfully tedious to use, that for the most part you are more likely to get a quick kill with your trusty BR.
>
> It just feels more like a chaotic cluster____ than a skill based arena shooter, especially on maps designed to cooperate with Sprint at 100% movement speed instead of 110%. Especially when things like instant respawn, and the painfully long shield regeneration time are also taken into account. I’ve even noticed the change in player mentality. Instead of setups and map control, the most effective strategies are to either hole up together in a small room with a player in each corner and wait like spiders in a web, or to traverse the map in a gigantic wolf pack, where “strength in numbers” and being in super-close proximity to teammates is not threatened by grenades, explosive power weapons, or most importantly of all friendly fire.
>
> As well, a player’s limited reaction time pretty much turns the average one on one engagement into “first to shoot, first to kill” meaning if you get jumped, you’re for most intents and purposes screwed. In every single other Halo game, you always had the opportunity to turn the fight around. But in Halo 4 post-update, too many factors lead to fast killtimes that are simply too easy to achieve.
>
> And then there’s the problem of playing on the game’s smaller maps. On Haven, Adrift, Skyline, and even Landfall, the increased movement speed makes it unbelievably easy to run away from an engagement and survive. It’s actually worse than Reach in that respect, and Reach didn’t have shot-flinch on sprinting players.
>
> The Halo 4 sandbox, mapset, and overall gameplay does NOT support increased killtimes, at least not without also making radical adjustments to the game’s maps, physics, and more minor details like aim assist and netcode (I’ve noticed radical complaints about inconsistency since the update, which is pretty obviously related to the game’s already pretty shoddy connection being incapable of handling shot registration in tandem with the increased movement speed). In a nutshell having a better connection, or living closer to the servers, is now giving players an advantage we haven’t seen since some of the laggier games in Halo 2 and 3.
>
> It’s just not working out. Halo 4 needs a complete overhaul for the current weapon settings to work properly. Yes they function bearably in LAN. But on Xbox Live it’s kind of a mess. I’d suggest doing what pretty much everyone suggested in the first place, and simply nerfind the DMR instead of buffing everything else. And next time, make a game WITHOUT Sprint so that you can design maps that support fast base movement speed, and then make a game with a half decent connection (and preferrably dedicated servers) so that you can minimize aim assist, which would in turn support faster killtimes. And for the love of god implement SOMETHING so that the fast killtimes aren’t so easy to achieve a baby could 4 shot. Halo CE had very minimal aim assist, and non-hitscan weapons. Halo 2 had excellent map design, <mark>and button glitches to separate the good players from the bad.</mark> and Halo 3 had Bullet Travel, so it actually took effort and practice to consistently perform well. Halo 4 has basically nothing to turn every firefight into a measure of skill, and the slower killtimes served to give players the reaction time they needed to change a fight into their favour, as there is so little chance of enemy player error to happen.
>
> I’m sorry, I hate to say it. I’m all for a fast paced Halo. But Halo 4 simply does not have the capacity to support it without a major overhaul to the engine. Next time focus on making a HALO game, and not trying to evolve the franchise unnecessarily, and you will give the fans what they ACTUALLY want and maintain an actually respectable population 6 months after launch.

You see you were sort of making a half decent argument. Then you had to say that. I can’t take anyone seriously that believes the ability to abuse a glitch some how makes a player better then someone else. So i won’t be replying even if you do quote back. Because that’s just gross.

Nerfing the DMR alone would have not solved the weapons balance issue. Buffing every other weapon addressed each weapons concern. Secondly “first shoot first kill” thing you tossed around is also bogus. I turn on people all the time. And i’m not even that great of a player. Another thing i found laughable was how your making a big deal about the increase in movement speed making a huge difference on sprinting away. All 10% really did was making strafing more effective and adding a bump to thruster pack. 10% is not a big enough increase to make the huge difference your talking of.

Power weapons are viable. If anything more now then they used to be. The saw now wrecks harder. And due to each precision getting its RRR and the automatics getting a 50% reduction in magnetism they stand even more of a chance then before. I got what i wanted out of a halo game when halo 4 launched and it got even better with this TU. The only thing they missed in the TU was a reduction to the shield recharge. But weapons getting their aim assist reduced and strafing now more viable it’s seperated those who can dance and shoot from those who let the game do it.

Lastly the only thing this TU actually showed was how much of a problem instant spawn and sprint is. Other then that everything else your saying is completely dumbfounding. If anything this is you trying to hide that your having a problem adjusting so your finding something to blame. You showed your true colors when you started talking about button glitching. Using a glitch to make your lethality level much higher then the standard player makes you anything but good. It doesn’t define a players skill. It merely shows that you have no moral compass. It’s sad.

> Speed boost is now insane.

Speed Boost gives players a static movement speed that does not scale with player traits. Unless the current Speed Boost is modified, the powerup actually received a nerf.

> > Speed boost is now insane.
>
> Speed Boost gives players a static movement speed that does not scale with player traits. Unless the current Speed Boost is modified, the powerup actually received a nerf.

Ah I take that one back then, when I tested it I did it with trait zones and it scales with trait zones, but regardless I still think 110% movement breaks sprint. And it has little to no effect on strafing since Halo 4 is momentum based meaning it takes longer to change direction with faster movement.

> > You guys realize that Classic Halo always had killtimes like this, right?
>
> Yes, but classic Halo’s physics, aim assist mechanics, and map design were all created with killtimes like this in mind.
>
> Most confrontations in Halo CE didn’t end in 3 shots, because the Magnum was extremely difficult to aim with.
>
> Most fights in Halo 3 didn’t end in 4 shots, because Bullet Travel created a skill gap that even pros had a hard time perfecting the 4 shot with.
>
> Halo 2’s amazing map design turned the game into kind of a ballet, and made each confrontation uniquely awesome and skill based.
>
> Halo 4 has none of those things. And because of that, these killtimes simply don’t work. The most important problem is the maps. But ridiculous aim assist levels and the insanity of 110% sprint and instant respawn just make it feel wrong.

The aim assist argument isn’t as prevalent anymore due to the boost in player speed. Aim assist isn’t as powerful when the player is moving faster, hence why speed boost is actually quite effective.

I’ll say that the Halo 4 BR is as consistent as the H2 BR which had a 4sk and hitscan.

And once again, the maps not being designed for the kill-times is fixed by the improved speed so now you can get behind cover a little quicker due to the faster kill-times and also making the strafe a bit more affective.

The only problem I really have is instant respawn. I always felt that was what made the game so fast-paced. If they remove instant respawn, I’m pretty sure it’d be perfect in terms of pace.

People are never happy, are they?