I had a few games like this last night, and then massive losses on my rank thanks to teammates whose performance made no sense for their rank. So frustrating.
1 Like
I would love it. Everyone got reset to 0. Same chance for everyone. A really skilled player would still climb up very fast.
1 Like
Would you be for resetting the MMR all together, so that people could possibly enter a lower rank instead of being placed in D1? How else would you improve the current system so that it doesn’t feel like we’re wasting entire evenings going nowhere? As it stands I’m ready to stop playing ranked all together. It’s just so frustrating to have so much work wiped out by a few bad games, not to mention the inconsistency.
1 Like
In most cases the MMR and CSR are very close. If the system is confident in your MMR you bring them together as quickly as you can.
The exceptions are;
-
When you are starting out or in placement games. Here your skill curve is wide and volatile. The system is trying to ballpark your rank quickly. You can’t have your CSR jumping up and down multiple ranks while it sorts itself out.
-
When you are a high rank post placement and the system gives you a starting CSR of D1. Apart from giving you a bit of grind - it’s an acknowledgement that the system needs more games to accurately rank you - around 46 to be precise. It’s quick and easy for it to work out that your a mid-Onyx - but not so much to work out your exact MMR relative to your peers. It needs time.
I think you’ll find that genuine Onyx players burn through the Diamond ranks pretty fast. Wading into Onyx may be a bit slower - but in Halo 5 at least it didn’t seem to take too long before the 1800+ players started to show up each season.
I think one of the reasons they started people so far back was the Champion status. It’s a flawed concept from the start - but to give it any chance they needed the top players to play each other a lot. Maybe now they’ve dropped that tier they can start player mid to high Diamond instead.
And of course, we’ve only had one season in Infinite. We’ll probably get a better feel for it into Seasons 2 and 3. You’ll go into the placement games with your current MMR and will be far more likely to come out the other end with a similar one.
They would. Like in a handful of games. You would well and truly be Onyx by the end of your placement games… so why not cut out the two or three games of smashing Bronze and Silver players and just get on with it.
I’m fully aware that it takes time, but my MMR still wants me to go up, not down, and my W/L is sitting at roughly 38% for my last 50 ranked games. I should be going down, but every rare win is making my rank go up, and losses arent putting me down nearly enough. I jumped from 1550 to 1575 in ONE game…that’s the equivalent of 50% of D1 to D2.
Honestly, I believe matchmaking based on CSR or visible rank (and not MMR) would solve most of the issue. I also think a small part of the issue is the game manipulating your gains and losses too much based on your hidden MMR.
1 Like
Because many people want the satisfaction of feeling like they climbed a ranking ladder. It feels good to feel like you are improving or moving forward, not the feeling of being stuck where the system thinks you should be.
The game already does this. The players that are ranking in D1 are most likely D5, 6, and Onyx players. There is still a grind. The game will always place you ranks lower than where your MMR is.
1 Like
Because (in the suggestion you made) everybody who is good has to grind up, so there will be skill gaps while the better players are still ranking up. Someone who skillwise belongs in Onyx has to start in Bronze then, so in bronze you will see (at least in the beginning) a lot of matches will huge skill gaps. Nearing the end of the season it will get less (but still pro’s will be playing there from time to time, because they started playing ranked late or create smurfaccounts). Only in Onyx you will have actual skill based matches, since only Onyx skilled players will be in there. In every other rank you will have players with a skill that belongs to a higher rank playing there, because they are still in the process of ranking up.
This is the most logical set up for a ranking system though, so it makes complete sence. But most matches will not be skill based because of that. It’s just rank based and within most ranks there will be (huge) skill gaps.
I understand that. The comment Darwi made was in relation to someone else saying we should all start from Bronze, unless I read that wrong above.
1 Like
And I get that.
But I doubt that going 30-0 against a bunch of lower ranked players is really going to give a sense of satisfaction, let alone do anything to “move you forward”. And if it wasn’t pointless enough for Season 1… I can’t imagine the purpose of doing it all over again next season.
Once you’ve reached your rank ceiling you are just going to struggle again - probably even more so seeing as you haven’t played any decent opponents for a while.
Every skill has an individual ceiling. Playing Halo, knitting, learning the piano… you will improve quickly up to a point and then it is a genuine grind to improve. The climb can be slow and frustrating.
I’m not sure what else the ranking system can give you. If it just lets you rank up by games played there are going to be a lot of people complaining that their W/L and K:D are falling fast.
As we’ve discussed in other threads the game desperately needs a skill based XP system for people to climb.
I agree with you on this – I’m saying the struggle at the ceiling is far more tolerable if you’ve had a larger, more satisfying journey of getting there.
In Halo 2, I remember my ceiling was somewhere around rank 36 or 37. In that system, I was okay with it, because I enjoyed the process of seeing that number change from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 etc – all the way up until my ceiling. When I got to rank 37, it was several months later, but I felt like I earned it and it meant something.
If you’re going from D1 to Onyx, that journey of feeling / enjoying your rank improve is diminished because you’re really only progressing 6 ranks. Not to mention with so many people placed highly in the system, it feels like the system gives shortcuts to that rank that wasn’t earned.
So if you get stuck at D5 having started at D1, that ceiling will probably feel much worse for the player due to the feeling of “I just started my journey and barely moved anywhere!”
I agree with this. I think the playerbase could get behind a return to the 1-50 style rank even if it was just disguised as the more modern Bronze-Onyx.
It would only really be an issue if MMR based matchmaking took place…Because of the MMR based MM, people are struggling in ranks that really shouldn’t be stuck in.
1 Like
Absolutely agree.
Also, I must’ve glanced over it the first time I read through it, but in the year-end update from Ske7ch, they did reference:
- Add/make changes to ranked based on feedback (playlists, backfill, MMR, UI info etc.)
- They have previously stated that they are working on a separate progression system on top of the battle pass, as well as adding more performance based XP systems.
So here’s to hoping these updates are what we’ve been looking for.
2 Likes
Know what you mean. A legit Onyx player starts as bronze 1. If he is matched against legit bronze / silver, he will go rampant. No problem, maybe after 10 matches he is already platinum. Another 10 matches he is Diamond.
So i dont think that a legit Onyx player would have to fight 10 matches to get to silver. He would just rush through the lower ranks.
But it would give other a chance to go up, who are stuck at a certain level only because the system thinks, that is the rank that you deserve.
Its just my personal observation. The ranking system works on slayer. But it doesnt work well on objective gamemode.
An example that happens very often in my ranked objective matches.
Stronghold, we won, i had 18 captures, 10 kills 15 death. Another player with the similar rank that i have. He had 10 captures, but went positive k/d 15 kills 10 deaths.
Guess what, he got twice point ranks as i got. Im pretty its because the ranking system gives more wheight on k/d even in objective matches.
1 Like
I think the biggest problem with the old style (Halo 2/3) grinds is that it wouldn’t work with Seasons. Nobody is going to be happy grinding to 50 and then being sent all the way back to 1.
And the other problem is rank locking. Your skill curve gets narrower with time as the system gets confident in your rank. We kind of need Seasons to refresh the skill curve and give your rank a chance to breathe. Lest we forget Halo 3.
1 Like
There is a weighting but it’s on kills per minute rather than KD.
I personally find that frustrating because I feel someone who went 10 and 5 contributed more to the win than someone who went 20 and 18.
The logic, I suppose, is that someone who is racking up lots of kills is more likely to be out of their rank pool than someone who has reached their ceiling and is now concentrating on dying less.
Personally I think they could get a lot more info about team play in Slayer games from damage ratios… but that’s another story.
And we’re all hoping that the kill rate doesn’t apply to objective games… but I don’t think we have any real evidence for or against yet.
What else to do is up for discussion. I would love it if there was a focus on team play for objective games… but even that is up for abuse. I’ve already been killed by team-mates just as I’m about to cap the flag so that they can get the stat. And there have been even more situations where I’m sure they were happy to let the enemy kill me for them so that they could swoop in and “save the day”.
You’re reaching to justify your conclusion.
I placed gold 5, my skill didn’t change to onyx in two weeks of play…I was basically onyx skill level from start, and just happened to get placed low.
You can be placed low during placements, without being a smurf, and then you have to grind the rank up while facing diamond/onyx players. (Actually, 5 games out of placements I was facing Diamond, within 10 games Onyx players)
I only play solo queue too; so it’s arguably more accurate than if I bring in a party.
1 Like
Oh I agree, you can be placed low during your placements without smurfing, but in my opinion, it is much more likely that someone placed this low who is playing at an Onyx level a few games later is smurfing.
Anyway, smurf or not, it shouldn’t matter what the Plats MMR was, he should be playing other plats and his rank should be skyrocketing through the steps. He shouldn’t be playing people of his MMR until he hits his ceiling. It causes burnout WAYYY faster to play against your own MMR the entire grind.
I actually agree, having done the grind, it’s really annoying having to play at the peak of my skill the entire ride.
If they rank you poorly, you should be playing against that rank and maybe 1-3 ranks higher. It definitely shouldn’t be putting gold/plat in diamond/onyx games…
The only benefit to being ranked lower than your actual skill, is that when you lose, you don’t lose rank until your rank matches your skill, then the skill system flips and it becomes harder to gain and easier to lose.
This is most painful for objective players. If you play objective, and don’t stat stick it up, you’re going to be punished in rank gain/loss. IMO, objective based stats need to be added into the rank calculation. Especially on multiflag. A good portion of the time, the team that is full negative KDA, will win because they simply prioritized the objective more than the ‘slaying’ team. In theory the slaying team should be able to do both, but in practice a team who goes mostly negative but prioritizes flag beyond everything, will often pull out a few extra caps that are the equivalent of brute force.