Some changes Serina needs

I know that is the third day and might be soon to call her OP, but there are two things that I think should be adressed already.

1st The Cryotech Advances passive is way too early in the game for all the advantages it offers, and I say that because we do have other passives with similar buffs: Anders’ Sentinel Beacon and Isabel’s best defense, both of these passives are on Tier 4, but Serina has a merge of the two on Tier 2 and also adds some of Atriox’s countermeasures, I think that this either requires that the power is pushed to T4 or being split on multiple levels.

The second thing is that Frostravens and Cryotroopers are seemingly able to shoot throug base shields, the Kodiak’s and Bison’s chill effect is able to ignore it as well. While even Inferno had to take down the shields first in order to affect the base.

Out of that, the only problem I have with her is the frustration of see that units are frost every fourth step, but I think that’s how she’s meant to act and I still have to find the counter for that.

I 100% that first suggestion.
When I saw what it does my reaction was “really? ALLL of this in one point?”

Those passives are crazy effective, and put opponents at a disadvantage way too early in the game.
Afterwards, she just gets mad offensive abilities to finish off bases and armies.
Definitely needs a little work.

> 2533274847730244;1:
> I know that is the third day and might be soon to call her OP, but there are two things that I think should be adressed already.
>
> 1st The Cryotech Advances passive is way too early in the game for all the advantages it offers, and I say that because we do have other passives with similar buffs: Anders’ Sentinel Beacon and Isabel’s best defense, both of these passives are on Tier 4, but Serina has a merge of the two on Tier 2 and also adds some of Atriox’s countermeasures, I think that this either requires that the power is pushed to T4 or being split on multiple levels.
>
> The second thing is that Frostravens and Cryotroopers are seemingly able to shoot throug base shields, the Kodiak’s and Bison’s chill effect is able to ignore it as well. While even Inferno had to take down the shields first in order to affect the base.
>
> Out of that, the only problem I have with her is the frustration of see that units are frost every fourth step, but I think that’s how she’s meant to act and I still have to find the counter for that.

I agree that maybe it the kodiak and siege turret needs to be a second upgrade needing a second leader point but everything else is fine imo hellbringers with shields isn’t breaking anything and the chill auras add to her defensive nature it makes sense. The shooting through the shield though I do agree shouldn’t happen

I feel like air, banshees and hornets, really give her a hard time. Just don’t bunch up your air so you get combo’d on. I don’t think she’s too much to deal with, just build proper counters.

I thought people were complaining that Banished had the advantage? Here’s a UNSC leader to tip the balance of power…

Then again, that’s only one scenario.

Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.

Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.

> 2541316932588271;6:
> Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
>
> Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.

It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.

> 2533274991067213;5:
> I thought people were complaining that Banished had the advantage? Here’s a UNSC leader to tip the balance of power…
>
> Then again, that’s only one scenario.

You said it, they HAD the advantage, on the last Season, but this is a new Season and UNSC got a great buff on many of its units, which makes things more balanced between the two factions, excluiding Forge who is over the top.

> 2533274847730244;7:
> > 2541316932588271;6:
> > Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
> >
> > Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.
>
> It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.

Maybe the Kodiak got the perk because it’s borderline useless right now. Rarely do I see people build them. Again, anti rush. If Serina rushes to T2 and opponent had the BS forge hog with snipers, then having a siege turret and a Kodiak or 2 is great to repel the rush. She doesn’t have any devastating leader powers even her T5 power just freezes over time. Doesn’t even do damage. Eradication, air support, emp blast, inferno etc etc can wipe out an entire army. Her only real damaging leader power is to freeze opponent then drop the glacier or whatever on them. 2 parts. Double resources. Both have to be timed. You are complaining about frozen power nodes which does nothing. Siege turrets and kodiaks easily countered by air. And cryotroopers who are countered by tanks, snipers, and air. Not nearly as OP as you make it sound. And if it was a T4 power would be useless because a lot of games are decided in 10-15 minutes and sometimes don’t even get to T4 or T5. And late game no one builds flamethrowers or cryotroopers because they get crushed by air and tanks and snipers. Power nodes is a non issue. It’s T2 to help prevent rushes.

> 2541316932588271;6:
> Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
>
> Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.

Not often do we see eye to eye Venom, but I whole-heartedly agree with you on this. People need to take time to figure out how to play against a new leader before crying OP

> 2541316932588271;9:
> > 2533274847730244;7:
> > > 2541316932588271;6:
> > > Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
> > >
> > > Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.
> >
> > It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.
>
> Maybe the Kodiak got the perk because it’s borderline useless right now. Rarely do I see people build them. Again, anti rush. If Serina rushes to T2 and opponent had the BS forge hog with snipers, then having a siege turret and a Kodiak or 2 is great to repel the rush. She doesn’t have any devastating leader powers even her T5 power just freezes over time. Doesn’t even do damage. Eradication, air support, emp blast, inferno etc etc can wipe out an entire army. Her only real damaging leader power is to freeze opponent then drop the glacier or whatever on them. 2 parts. Double resources. Both have to be timed. You are complaining about frozen power nodes which does nothing. Siege turrets and kodiaks easily countered by air. And cryotroopers who are countered by tanks, snipers, and air. Not nearly as OP as you make it sound.

1st I’m not calling her OP, I’m just pointing out that her passive has too much advantages compared to any other leader’s passives and that is too early in the game for the advantages it offers: It’s like merging Best Defense and Sentinel Beacon and throwing it to T2

2nd by the time you have Kodiak or Sieze Turrets is no longer a rush, a rush is at best until 4:00 and its only T1 units

3rd That her T5 powers are useless doesn’t make her early powers useless, her combo is Cryobomb + Siesmic Charge.

I don’t agree with your first point. Atriox gets a similar set up at T2, jumppack mines and node mines, plus cheap turrets vs aura nodes, aura turrets, shield cyro troopers. Kodiaks and seige turrets are very expressive early game and even with shields cryo troopers can be squishy.

The cyro effect under the shield I might agree with however in cannon I’m not sure the shields act as guard against weather. I don’t think the shield would block the cold because it is vacuum tech (so negative energy). The shield will block projectiles and positive energy signatures (bullets and plasma) not vacuum energy.

> 2533274847730244;11:
> > 2541316932588271;9:
> > > 2533274847730244;7:
> > > > 2541316932588271;6:
> > > > Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.
> > >
> > > It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.
> >
> > Maybe the Kodiak got the perk because it’s borderline useless right now. Rarely do I see people build them. Again, anti rush. If Serina rushes to T2 and opponent had the BS forge hog with snipers, then having a siege turret and a Kodiak or 2 is great to repel the rush. She doesn’t have any devastating leader powers even her T5 power just freezes over time. Doesn’t even do damage. Eradication, air support, emp blast, inferno etc etc can wipe out an entire army. Her only real damaging leader power is to freeze opponent then drop the glacier or whatever on them. 2 parts. Double resources. Both have to be timed. You are complaining about frozen power nodes which does nothing. Siege turrets and kodiaks easily countered by air. And cryotroopers who are countered by tanks, snipers, and air. Not nearly as OP as you make it sound.
>
> 1st I’m not calling her OP, I’m just pointing out that her passive has too much advantages compared to any other leader’s passives and that is too early in the game for the advantages it offers: It’s like merging Best Defense and Sentinel Beacon and throwing it to T2
>
> 2nd by the time you have Kodiak or Sieze Turrets is no longer a rush, a rush is at best until 4:00 and its only T1 units
>
> 3rd That her T5 powers are useless doesn’t make her early powers useless, her combo is Cryobomb + Siesmic Charge.

Siege turrets and kodiaks aren’t cheap. To me a rush is anything before 5 min. And you can get to T2 by 3 min mark and maybe have 1 Kodiak and 1 siege turret by 5 min mark. Either way, they both do same damage as a non Serena player. They just add a chill effect. You would need to get bombarded by them to actually get frozen. And if you build planes then neither matters. Again, the power nodes freeze is useless because the troop doesn’t even freeze. And the cryotroopers aren’t even useful late game really and die so quickly. As a T2 power I think the plane is better because it chills faster and is cheap. But agree to disagree :slight_smile:

> 2533274808003246;12:
> I don’t agree with your first point. Atriox gets a similar set up at T2, jumppack mines and node mines, plus cheap turrets vs aura nodes, aura turrets, shield cyro troopers. Kodiaks and seige turrets are very expressive early game and even with shields cryo troopers can be squishy.
>
> The cyro effect under the shield I might agree with however in cannon I’m not sure the shields act as guard against weather. I don’t think the shield would block the cold because it is vacuum tech (so negative energy). The shield will block projectiles and positive energy signatures (bullets and plasma) not vaccine energy.

I’m going to point out that the cheap turrets are from fortifications which is different to countermeasures, you’d have to spent two points and skip last breath.

I really doubt they put much canon on gameplay, plasma can one shot people without shields and I don’t find any logical answer to how Stasis works.

> 2541316932588271;13:
> > 2533274847730244;11:
> > > 2541316932588271;9:
> > > > 2533274847730244;7:
> > > > > 2541316932588271;6:
> > > > > Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.
> > > >
> > > > It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.
> > >
> > > Maybe the Kodiak got the perk because it’s borderline useless right now. Rarely do I see people build them. Again, anti rush. If Serina rushes to T2 and opponent had the BS forge hog with snipers, then having a siege turret and a Kodiak or 2 is great to repel the rush. She doesn’t have any devastating leader powers even her T5 power just freezes over time. Doesn’t even do damage. Eradication, air support, emp blast, inferno etc etc can wipe out an entire army. Her only real damaging leader power is to freeze opponent then drop the glacier or whatever on them. 2 parts. Double resources. Both have to be timed. You are complaining about frozen power nodes which does nothing. Siege turrets and kodiaks easily countered by air. And cryotroopers who are countered by tanks, snipers, and air. Not nearly as OP as you make it sound.
> >
> > 1st I’m not calling her OP, I’m just pointing out that her passive has too much advantages compared to any other leader’s passives and that is too early in the game for the advantages it offers: It’s like merging Best Defense and Sentinel Beacon and throwing it to T2
> >
> > 2nd by the time you have Kodiak or Sieze Turrets is no longer a rush, a rush is at best until 4:00 and its only T1 units
> >
> > 3rd That her T5 powers are useless doesn’t make her early powers useless, her combo is Cryobomb + Siesmic Charge.
>
> Siege turrets and kodiaks aren’t cheap. To me a rush is anything before 5 min. And you can get to T2 by 3 min mark and maybe have 1 Kodiak and 1 siege turret by 5 min mark. Either way, they both do same damage as a non Serena player. They just add a chill effect. You would need to get bombarded by them to actually get frozen. And if you build planes then neither matters. Again, the power nodes freeze is useless because the troop doesn’t even freeze. And the cryotroopers aren’t even useful late game really and die so quickly. As a T2 power I think the plane is better because it chills faster and is cheap. But agree to disagree :slight_smile:

I think you might be the second person on these forums that I see taking up 4 mark as a rush, but anyway, I do consider unfair that Serina has all of those upgrades early while Anders and Isabel have to wait for the half of them.

> 2533274847730244;7:
> > 2541316932588271;6:
> > Explain to me why her T2 ability is so horrible and OP? Power nodes have frost. Big deal, u can still cap it and don’t even get frozen. Turrets have ice around them. That’s to keep the rushes at bay. It’s an anti rush ability to keep flamethrowers and building bashers and goliaths from wrecking your base in under 15 seconds. No problem with a leader having some anti rushing defenses. And cryotroopers get a shield and aura.
> >
> > Sorry but none of that seems OP to me. Maybe don’t rush 5 min into the game and actually build some troops. If someone invests that much in 4 turrets and a legion of cryotroopers you can easily dispatch of them with warthogs, banshees, basically anything besides infantry.
>
> It would be anti-rush if it was only the chill aura for turrets and nodes, but she also has the shield and Aura on Cryotroopers and the chill effect for Kodiak and size, which is not for a rush, the problem is that this passive has too many useful advantages on one leader point, and seems even less fair that some of them are pretty similar to T4 passives from other leaders.

Kodiaks and siege turrets aren’t even used that early anyway until after rushing is no longer effective. It’s basically just a second stage to the point that doesn’t become useful until after.

I could agree with changing it to a upgrade to the passive were the rush stuff comes first and then if you upgrade it you get the Kodiak aspect as well. If you move it to were countermeasures is it would be useless for anti-rush but I really think that’s what everyone is mad about that she us the anti-rush leader not that Kodiak shells have a small slow down affect.

The power node chill effect is less for the freezing of enemies, and more for the slowing of enemies. Its very effective on maps like Bedrock where the nodes are dispersed throughout main lanes of movement. The enemy either has to go though the chill slowly and risk being attacked with other freezing leader powers and units, or go around. But on maps like Highway, Rift, and Vault where most power nodes can be avoided altogether, its basically useless. The chill aura on turrets requires the actual building of turrets, which neuters your eco early if you go 3-4 turrets and she can’t benefit from the Kodiak or Siege turret passives until Tech 2. The only truly effective part of this passive early game is the shield and aura for Cryotroopers and again, she has to build that specific unit to benefit from the passive. Plus Cryotroopers are so squishy already that ANY damaging leader power will pretty much rinse an army of these. She’s very defensive until she gets access to the Seismic Blast and Cryo Bomb. Nothing OP here, just a very well-designed and creative leader

> 2533274847730244;14:
> > 2533274808003246;12:
> > I don’t agree with your first point. Atriox gets a similar set up at T2, jumppack mines and node mines, plus cheap turrets vs aura nodes, aura turrets, shield cyro troopers. Kodiaks and seige turrets are very expressive early game and even with shields cryo troopers can be squishy.
> >
> > The cyro effect under the shield I might agree with however in cannon I’m not sure the shields act as guard against weather. I don’t think the shield would block the cold because it is vacuum tech (so negative energy). The shield will block projectiles and positive energy signatures (bullets and plasma) not vaccine energy.
>
> I’m going to point out that the cheap turrets are from fortifications which is different to countermeasures, you’d have to spent two points and skip last breath.
>
> I really doubt they put much canon on gameplay, plasma can one shot people without shields and I don’t find any logical answer to how Stasis works.

Exactly my point… If Atriox choose to he could put himself in a very similar position plus his mine tech does hella damage and stun, cryo only slows you down doing very minimal. Turrets of all kinds cost a lot of cheddar for Serina, they wouldn’t for Atriox plus he has the Choosen. Atriox has a stronger open than Serina, if you nerf this it would be Anders all over again. Serina is very balanced and well thought out, give it time and you will learn to counter.

Honestly , I Think She’s Fine

All In All, She’s A Very Strong Defensive/ Supportive Character.

Her Ice Drop And Glacial Storm Come To Mind For Support

Her Unit Drop Only Does Significant Damage If Vehicles Are Upgraded And There Are Frozen Units On The Field, Otherwise It Just Fucntions Like A Standard Unit Drop With No Special Effects. ( Hellcharge, Vehicle Symbiote Etc.)

She Has Her Wimbledon Combo, But That’s Really Her Biggest Offensive Power And It Relies On Two Powers Being Charged.

Yes Ice Drop And Glacial Storm Can Be Used Offensively, But A Simple Retreat Or Reposition Renders Them Moot. (Teleport, Pelican Drop)

Her Bison Is Powerful, But Slow, Enough Units Can Overwhelm It, Even In Lockdown Mode.

Cryo Advances Is Good For Deterring / Slowing Rushes, And Adds To Her Turtle / Defensive Strategy, As Well As Giving More Reaction Time To Stop Enemy’s Capturing Your Nodes.

Cryo Troops Freeze Quickly, But Do Nowhere Near As Much Damage As Hell Bringers,

And Air Units, When Managed Well, Can Put Serina On Her Back Foot, If They Are Constantly Moveing, They Can’t Get Cryo Bombed, Effectively Anyways, Which Means You Can Force Her To Reserve Population For Anti Air, Which Means Less Frost Ravens And Cryo Troppers, And Maybe Even Seige Turrets , Because You May Be Able To Make Some Player Convert Their Turrets To Anti Air.

All In All, She’s A Heavy Defence And Support Based Hero Who Relies More On Units Than Leader Powers To Mount An Offence, And If All Ir Things Get Frozen , Its Honestly Really Ur Own Fault, Stop Bunching All Ur Units Together.

Not saying OP.
Its just that the chill aura passive seems like it should be 2 points, rather than wrapped in one.
Or, come later down the line for her.

So far though, I haven’t played a ridiculous Serina, so yeah, maybe we should just give it some time.