Some advice for the whiners

Now, don’t get me wrong. I have done PLENTY of whining in past Halo games.
Before I get started, let me tell you my history. I started playing Halo 2 in 2006. After a while, I became very proficient at the game and had the game down to a science. When Halo 3 was released, I was absolutely shocked when I found out I couldn’t use my previous tactics in a new game. I whined and complained that the game was terrible and it needed to be fixed. It wasn’t until I accepted the changes and had an open mind to learn when I finally achieved success in Halo 3.
And then I let it happen again in Reach…
However I learned a major lesson from this. I learned that I need to accept changes right away, and have an open mind about changes. When it comes down to it, there is nothing you can do. You can voice your opinions and rants all you want but most likely nothing will change. Once people accept the changes and have an open mind about 343’s take on Halo, they will be satisfied.

Thank you for having an open mind. I used to complain a lot about armor abilities, but now that I started using other ones besides sprint, the game seems a lot better. Accept change, and adapt. It’s a new game, you’re going to have to learn new things to be good at it.

I just hope people will listen to this guy

This is a fresh perspective I don’t think we’ve seen on this forum before; and I can’t say how glad I am to see someone admit to something like this. It’s the fact that certain players have the game “down to a science” that begins to detract from the overall enjoyment; things are always more fun when there’s an element of chaos in the mix. It’s the difference between a video game and a mathematical equation.

“When it comes down to it, there is nothing you can do. You can voice your opinions and rants all you want but most likely nothing will change.”

lol

> This is a fresh perspective I don’t think we’ve seen on this forum before; and I can’t say how glad I am to see someone admit to something like this. It’s the fact that certain players have the game “down to a science” that begins to detract from the overall enjoyment; things are always more fun when there’s an element of chaos in the mix. It’s the difference between a video game and a mathematical equation.

I have to say I have never heard anyone say they love an element of chaos in their video games. So…you would like it if you were playing a game of basketball and randomly the baskets would start moving up and down to give the game an “element of chaos”? Instead of being able to play the game in a fair manner and have everything that happens be of a predictable nature where then skill is the deciding factor? Man I hope you never design a video game…

OT: OP, there is boundaries in how much -Yoink- im willing to put up with. If the new main features in H4 happens to be custom loadouts and armor perks then that will too much -Yoink- to put up with I do have boundaries even with my favorite video games.

I don’t know about you, but if I saw a car driving at me (ie hearing about the possibility of very detrimental changes to Halo 4’s gameplay), I’m going to move out of the way (ie voice my concerns). If you want to sit there, and hope that the car sees you and stops (ie 343 makes a good game), go right ahead. But I, and many others, are going to do everything we can to move out of the way (ie express our concerns).

Regardless of how much you or anyone thinks that 343 will actually listen, we are going to speak, under the chance that they will. Back to the car analogy; If someone told you that there was no way you would get out of the way in time, would you just be like “okay yeah you’re right I guess i’ll just get splattered”? No, you would do everything you can to not become roadkill, regardless of how futile it may be.

Halo and it’s mechanics are extremely important to a lot of us, and we’re not willing to let it go down without a fight.

And honestly what else are you going to do on the forums other than complain and argue? If it weren’t for complaining, arguing or expression of concerns and opinions there would be the one “what kind of player do you think the person above you is” thread, one “sign here if you beat the game on Legendary” thread and one “Look at this awesome snipe I got!” thread. Many wouldn’t that be awesome.

No, it wouldn’t. And the forums don’t exist so that we can sit around and circle jerk about Master Chief and the cool clips in our file shares. The forums serve as a link between the dev and community, allowing the community to give feedback, voice concerns, etc etc.

/rant

> I have to say I have never heard anyone say they love an element of chaos in their video games. So…you would like it if you were playing a game of basketball and randomly the baskets would start moving up and down to give the game an “element of chaos”? Instead of being able to play the game in a fair manner and have everything that happens be of a predictable nature where then skill is the deciding factor? Man I hope you never design a video game…

Boy, this community is just aching for that Jumping to Conclusions world record. I said that I enjoyed an “element of chaos”, not “complete and utter anarchy”. Games should never become predictable. Without randomness, without chaos, we wouldn’t have poker or blackjack, horse racing or football, or any other competitive games or sports. If you could predict the outcome each and every time it would be boring.

> And the forums don’t exist so that we can sit around and circle jerk about Master Chief and the cool clips in our file shares. The forums serve as a link between the dev and community, allowing the community to give feedback, voice concerns, etc etc.

If you think for a second that 343 is going to listen to the sort of petulant, self-entitled braying that has infected this forum over the previous week, then you’re sadly mistaken. I also shouldn’t have to point out that now is not the time to be “making your voices heard”, or whatever it is you wish to accomplish. That time would be after we have concrete evidence as to what is and is not going to be included in the game.

Less whining, more playing streets of rage 2 :D.

> “When it comes down to it, there is nothing you can do. You can voice your opinions and rants all you want but most likely nothing will change.”
>
> lol

I said MOST LIKELY for a reason buddy…

> > This is a fresh perspective I don’t think we’ve seen on this forum before; and I can’t say how glad I am to see someone admit to something like this. It’s the fact that certain players have the game “down to a science” that begins to detract from the overall enjoyment; things are always more fun when there’s an element of chaos in the mix. It’s the difference between a video game and a mathematical equation.
>
> I have to say I have never heard anyone say they love an element of chaos in their video games. So…you would like it if you were playing a game of basketball and randomly the baskets would start moving up and down to give the game an “element of chaos”? Instead of being able to play the game in a fair manner and have everything that happens be of a predictable nature where then skill is the deciding factor? Man I hope you never design a video game…
>
> OT: OP, there is boundaries in how much Yoink! im willing to put up with. If the new main features in H4 happens to be custom loadouts and armor perks then that will too much Yoink! to put up with I do have boundaries even with my favorite video games.

Then you don’t have to play it. But if you have a true love for the game, you will learn to accept it.

> > This is a fresh perspective I don’t think we’ve seen on this forum before; and I can’t say how glad I am to see someone admit to something like this. It’s the fact that certain players have the game “down to a science” that begins to detract from the overall enjoyment; things are always more fun when there’s an element of chaos in the mix. It’s the difference between a video game and a mathematical equation.
>
> If certain people didn’t enjoy math, we would still be killing things with spears and living in the forest. This is obviously hyperbolic, but seriously if there were no mathematicians there would be no science, no innovation, nothing we have today. Sure mathematicians are a very small percent of the worlds population, but they do more for the world and the human race than have the world’s population does.
>
> Players like me are the mathematicians, players like you are not.And when players like me put 10,000 games into the few year period between Halo games, and players like you put in 100, I really feel that, per capita, our opinion is far more important than yours. It is only because there is one of every for each hundred of you that it is even a contest. Dev’s make about 1/3 of their profits off map packs, and keeping players like us satisfied is important $$$ in their pocket. Not to mention if we enjoy the game, we’re going to rant and yell about it to every gamer we know, getting them to buy it and purchase map packs. If H4 is good, I will probably get at least 10 people to buy it who wouldn’t have otherwise. When you have 10,000 of us who all get 10 people to buy the game, that starts adding up into a lot of money.
>
> 5,000 (probably around how many players like me there are) multiplied by 90 (60 Dollars game plus 3 map packs) that’s $450,000 just from us. Then you add 50,000 more people who will at least buy the game and a map pack or so at $50 because of us; that’s 3 million dollars because you pleased <1% of the community. sure it’s only a drop in the bucket when you sell 5+ million copies, but 3 million dollars is 3 million dollars. And 90% of those 5+ million copies are going to be bought regardless of how good the game is. You slap on a Halo title, you sell 5 million copies, period. You make a good Halo title, you sell 5.5-6 million copies + that 500,000 buys all the map maps (increasing the money you make off them by 50%), that’s
> that is all.
>
> 5,000,000 x $50 = $250,000,000
> 1,000,000 x $90 = $90,000,000
>
> $340,000,000 total. That’s a 25% increase in overall sales just because you made a good Halo title instead of a crappy one.
>
> You just

> I don’t know about you, but if I saw a car driving at me (ie hearing about the possibility of very detrimental changes to Halo 4’s gameplay), I’m going to move out of the way (ie voice my concerns). If you want to sit there, and hope that the car sees you and stops (ie 343 makes a good game), go right ahead. But I, and many others, are going to do everything we can to move out of the way (ie express our concerns).
>
> Regardless of how much you or anyone thinks that 343 will actually listen, we are going to speak, under the chance that they will. Back to the car analogy; If someone told you that there was no way you would get out of the way in time, would you just be like “okay yeah you’re right I guess i’ll just get splattered”? No, you would do everything you can to not become roadkill, regardless of how futile it may be.
>
> Halo and it’s mechanics are extremely important to a lot of us, and we’re not willing to let it go down without a fight.
>
> And honestly what else are you going to do on the forums other than complain and argue? If it weren’t for complaining, arguing or expression of concerns and opinions there would be the one “what kind of player do you think the person above you is” thread, one “sign here if you beat the game on Legendary” thread and one “Look at this awesome snipe I got!” thread. Many wouldn’t that be awesome.
>
> No, it wouldn’t. And the forums don’t exist so that we can sit around and circle jerk about Master Chief and the cool clips in our file shares. The forums serve as a link between the dev and community, allowing the community to give feedback, voice concerns, etc etc.
>
>
>
> /rant

I never said not to voice your opinions. I said that MOST LIKELY nothing will change. If it does, kudos to you. If it does not…then accept it or move on.

> I never said not to voice your opinions. I said that MOST LIKELY nothing will change. If it does, kudos to you. If it does not…then accept it or move on.

We never accepted Reach, and we got a major TU to it, one which allowed a game that was a complete joke competitively to be able to make settings that far surpass H3’s (MLG settings). Again, MLG is a tiny fraction of even the skilled players who are a tiny fraction of the overall players, but if anything that just goes to show how much say we actually have. When <1% of the community can get major changes implemented, that clearly shows that our concerns/feedback/etc actually does mean something.

If you want to sit back and accept things the way they roll out, that’s fine by me, but don’t expect or even attempt to convince us to also follow in that path. No disrespect, Just being honest.

I agree except there was no adapting to reach because you never got good games there was no true skill it seemed like

> If certain people didn’t enjoy math, we would still be killing things with spears and living in the forest. This is obviously hyperbolic, but seriously if there were no mathematicians there would be no science, no innovation, nothing we have today. Sure mathematicians are a very small percent of the worlds population, but they do more for the world and the human race than have the world’s population does.

You can always tell when you’ve won an argument based upon which element of your argument your opponent chooses to respond to. I used mathematics as a rhetorical device; I was juxtaposing something that is supposed to be fun with something that traditionally perceived to be dry and predictable. I never said that mathematics wasn’t useful.

If you truly want your Halo matches to play out the same way each and every time, then I won’t bother offering any further counterarguments, because I simply don’t understand your perspective.

> > I have to say I have never heard anyone say they love an element of chaos in their video games. So…you would like it if you were playing a game of basketball and randomly the baskets would start moving up and down to give the game an “element of chaos”? Instead of being able to play the game in a fair manner and have everything that happens be of a predictable nature where then skill is the deciding factor? Man I hope you never design a video game…
>
> Boy, this community is just aching for that Jumping to Conclusions world record. I said that I enjoyed an “element of chaos”, not “complete and utter anarchy”. Games should never become predictable. Without randomness, without chaos, we wouldn’t have poker or blackjack, horse racing or football, or any other competitive games or sports. If you could predict the outcome each and every time it would be boring.

Your including football in with those examples of luck-based games like poker and horse racing are you kidding me? Its not about predicting outcomes thats why we play the games to determine the outcome, its about being to able to play a fair game with predictable game mechanics to where you can improve on said game and feel satisfaction in winning based on your skill not random elements or because of a “chaotic element” that is what makes it fun to play. If your talking about rare occurrences for where example you accidently shoot an enemies rocket as he is firing it at you and it kills him, or when your warthog gets grenaded and by luck it splatters the enemy then yes I agree that is part of the fun of Halo. Those types of things happen by chance however and competitive games should never look to implement luck-based elements into the games or things that create an uneven playing field where one player has an advantage because of play time for example. If Halo becomes “one of those games” and everyone knows what im talking about, not only will I not be playing it but im guessing a large portion of the community wont either.

> > If certain people didn’t enjoy math, we would still be killing things with spears and living in the forest. This is obviously hyperbolic, but seriously if there were no mathematicians there would be no science, no innovation, nothing we have today. Sure mathematicians are a very small percent of the worlds population, but they do more for the world and the human race than have the world’s population does.
>
> You can always tell when you’ve won an argument based upon which element of your argument your opponent chooses to respond to. I used mathematics as a rhetorical device; I was juxtaposing something that is supposed to be fun with something that traditionally perceived to be dry and predictable. I never said that mathematics wasn’t useful.
>
> If you truly want your Halo matches to play out the same way each and every time, then I won’t bother offering any further counterarguments, because I simply don’t understand your perspective.

Your entire argument was

This is a new perspective and It’s nice to see. Certain players have the game down to a science and it makes it less fun. Things are more fun when there is randomness, it’s what makes it different from math.

Is my argument really invalid because I didn’t address the fact that you said “it’s a new perspective and it’s nice to see”. And mathematics is a horrible overall comparison, I only further elaborated on it because that’s the analogy you chose. I just expanded on how mathematics applies to our current situation to help you understand the situation.

Also I could say the same thing back to you; expanding on the mathematics analogy was only 1/5th of my post and hardly the most relevant or important information that was expressed in the post, especially when a mathematics analogy doesn’t hold much water outside of the information you or I stated.

In regards to “you don’t want every encounter to play out the same way”, that is impossible to ever occur, even in campaign or firefight where you are fighting computers. If you have 2 individual people, it will be near impossible to undergo the same encounter twice even after thousands upon thousands of repetitions. And that only increases exponentially with each new person you add the game play. One of the biggest skills in competitive Halo is predicting to the best of your abilities what your opponent is thinking and make decisions based upon that. That’s how it is with almost any game. Once you’re a proficient player, where aiming has little to do with it since everyone has exceptional aim at higher level play, it all comes down to the mind game and outsmarting your opponent.

For those of us who enjoy this kind of gameplay, who find it fun to gain rewards due to all the blood, sweat, and tears (hyperbole obviously) we put in, elements of randomness literally cripple any and all fun we have. If you read my post above you would pretty clearly see that pleasing even 5,000 players like me is millions of dollars in their pocket. Now players like you are the majority of the income, but are you really not going to buy the game if you if it isn’t random? I doubt it. And are you really going to go preaching about how amazing it is no matter what happens to all your friends? Probably not. Whether 343 makes the game consistent or not, players like you are going to buy it. it’s a guaranteed $250,00,000 ish; pleasing players like me adds another 100,000,000 to that.

You clearly think I am feeble minded idiot and are in no way open to my opinion, regardless of how much factual information I provide that you are currently lacking, in which case that is the last I will say. good day sir.

Agree!

> > I have to say I have never heard anyone say they love an element of chaos in their video games. So…you would like it if you were playing a game of basketball and randomly the baskets would start moving up and down to give the game an “element of chaos”? Instead of being able to play the game in a fair manner and have everything that happens be of a predictable nature where then skill is the deciding factor? Man I hope you never design a video game…
>
> Boy, this community is just aching for that Jumping to Conclusions world record. I said that I enjoyed an “element of chaos”, not “complete and utter anarchy”. Games should never become predictable. Without randomness, without chaos, we wouldn’t have poker or blackjack, horse racing or football, or any other competitive games or sports. If you could predict the outcome each and every time it would be boring.

The best way to be good at poker is to predict what each person has. There is some luck, but for the most part, it takes a lot of skill and statistics knowledge to be good at poker. Luck in the cards you get. Skill in how you play those cards. The majority of the time, it doesn’t even matter what cards are on the table, the players are playing each other, not the cards.

How is football random? You predict what the offense is going to do and apply the correct defense.
Racing is not random. They don’t have little special magic cubes you can get that will allow you to throw a banana or a shell at another horse/car. It is just straight up racing.
Blackjack even takes skill in counting the cards. The best blackjack players will win every time because they can predict what they have and what is coming out.