buff AV a little bit and give t3 vehicle a small multiplier over hogs/ marauders.
the end.
t3 vehicles already beat hogs and marauder.
Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
> 2533274967376955;3:
> Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
Yes with the less power on the map will probably make tier 1 units more viable again and the AV buff will help the hog spam.
> 2533274941559896;4:
> > 2533274967376955;3:
> > Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
>
> Yes with the less power on the map will probably make tier 1 units more viable again and the AV buff will help the hog spam.
Agreed, especially against newer players who don’t get all of the on map resources. If I can get 1 power cylinder and 1-2 power crates, I’m teching up and having 4-5 hogs out at 4 minutes, and I really don’t think that’s fair.
> 2533274967376955;5:
> > 2533274941559896;4:
> > > 2533274967376955;3:
> > > Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
> >
> > Yes with the less power on the map will probably make tier 1 units more viable again and the AV buff will help the hog spam.
>
> Agreed, especially against newer players who don’t get all of the on map resources. If I can get 1 power cylinder and 1-2 power crates, I’m teching up and having 4-5 hogs out at 4 minutes, and I really don’t think that’s fair.
It really is funny and boring knowing in the very beginning of the match, if you get the power cylinders and power in the middle of the map untouched by the enemy, you know in advance you will win.
> 2533274941559896;6:
> > 2533274967376955;5:
> > > 2533274941559896;4:
> > > > 2533274967376955;3:
> > > > Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
> > >
> > > Yes with the less power on the map will probably make tier 1 units more viable again and the AV buff will help the hog spam.
> >
> > Agreed, especially against newer players who don’t get all of the on map resources. If I can get 1 power cylinder and 1-2 power crates, I’m teching up and having 4-5 hogs out at 4 minutes, and I really don’t think that’s fair.
>
> It really is funny and boring knowing in the very beginning of the match, if you get the power cylinders and power in the middle of the map untouched by the enemy, you know in advance you will win.
That massive bundle on Bedrock is a game changer.
> 2533274796391115;7:
> > 2533274941559896;6:
> > > 2533274967376955;5:
> > > > 2533274941559896;4:
> > > > > 2533274967376955;3:
> > > > > Less power available on maps would be a big help, and then I assume it’s a given at this point that AV will get some sort of buff.
> > > >
> > > > Yes with the less power on the map will probably make tier 1 units more viable again and the AV buff will help the hog spam.
> > >
> > > Agreed, especially against newer players who don’t get all of the on map resources. If I can get 1 power cylinder and 1-2 power crates, I’m teching up and having 4-5 hogs out at 4 minutes, and I really don’t think that’s fair.
> >
> > It really is funny and boring knowing in the very beginning of the match, if you get the power cylinders and power in the middle of the map untouched by the enemy, you know in advance you will win.
>
> That massive bundle on Bedrock is a game changer.
Absolutely! Get all of those, tech 2, game over. Of course if we are playing an evenly matched player who fight hard for the power its going to be a better game; but people still tech up to hogs and are extremely difficult to stop. Less power on maps could go a long way.
The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
Insert constructive comment here.
> 2533274806495508;9:
> The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
That’s an interesting look at things. Less supplies over time would make it much more difficult to triple pump hogs and make it more important to expand instead of just spamming hogs.
Power income needs to be return too normal so that cyclops and other counter units can keep up with the supplies only units.
> 2533274941559896;10:
> Insert constructive comment here.
>
>
> > 2533274806495508;9:
> > The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> > but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> > But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
>
> That’s an interesting look at things. Less supplies over time would make it much more difficult to triple pump hogs and make it more important to expand instead of just spamming hogs.
No. The prior changes didn’t affect the low pad counts almost at all. The supply rate is way higher beyond past 2 bases though than pre-changes, which is good - mid-late game map control should be meaningful in terms of income.
The problem is that people can get to tier 2 far too quickly right now. There is close to no counterplay to fast tech 2 By the time you scout it, they are already upgrading it 
> 2533274806495508;9:
> The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
Yeah that’s a bad idea. The diminished returns effected your 7-8 supply pads not your beginning ones. So that doesn’t really affect the problem at hand.
One idea that I’ve had is maybe make rush units like flamers and hammer brutes build faster. Atm rushing isn’t really viable against a quick tech hogs so maybe the rush part of the triangle needs to be buffed.
> 2533274958100139;12:
> > 2533274941559896;10:
> > Insert constructive comment here.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274806495508;9:
> > > The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> > > but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> > > But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
> >
> > That’s an interesting look at things. Less supplies over time would make it much more difficult to triple pump hogs and make it more important to expand instead of just spamming hogs.
>
> No. The prior changes didn’t affect the low pad counts almost at all. The supply rate is way higher beyond past 2 bases though than pre-changes, which is good - mid-late game map control should be meaningful in terms of income.
>
> The problem is that people can get to tier 2 far too quickly right now. There is close to no counterplay to fast tech 2 By the time you scout it, they are already upgrading it
If the early map control guy was able to get power nodes and they increased the node energy raw back to 2 or whatever then he would be able to transition just as fast and be able to quickly pump cyclops or hunters. Then the fast tech guy would be behind.
> 2533274806495508;14:
> > 2533274958100139;12:
> > > 2533274941559896;10:
> > > Insert constructive comment here.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274806495508;9:
> > > > The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> > > > but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> > > > But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
> > >
> > > That’s an interesting look at things. Less supplies over time would make it much more difficult to triple pump hogs and make it more important to expand instead of just spamming hogs.
> >
> > No. The prior changes didn’t affect the low pad counts almost at all. The supply rate is way higher beyond past 2 bases though than pre-changes, which is good - mid-late game map control should be meaningful in terms of income.
> >
> > The problem is that people can get to tier 2 far too quickly right now. There is close to no counterplay to fast tech 2 By the time you scout it, they are already upgrading it
>
> If the early map control guy was able to get power nodes and they increased the node energy raw back to 2 or whatever then he would be able to transition just as fast and be able to quickly pump cyclops or hunters. Then the fast tech guy would be behind.
Not at all. By the time the increase in power from the nodes really start to show their effect the quick tech player already has multiple hogs on the field. No, the best way to put hogs in check is it limit the effectiveness of a gen first, single gen build. This can be achieved by reducing the power available on the map. Not only would it take longer to tech up building two generators, but their supply cost limits the supply available to them for their early hog push.
> 2533274814970819;15:
> > 2533274806495508;14:
> > > 2533274958100139;12:
> > > > 2533274941559896;10:
> > > > Insert constructive comment here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274806495508;9:
> > > > > The solution isn’t in the energy on the map.
> > > > > but rather the supply rate of resources. They changed how much supply you get from pads awhile back used to once you got to 7-8 pads there wasn’t an improvement. They need to increase the diminishing returns on pads. That way people can’t just spam supply units like T2 vehicles or air. The game was much more balanced before the supply pad finishing returns was changed. Also AV units were cheaper in energy and power node energy rate was nerfed as well.
> > > > > But AV needs more health for sure. And Cutter Raid back. That way Cutter is like the hard counter leader to vehicles
> > > >
> > > > That’s an interesting look at things. Less supplies over time would make it much more difficult to triple pump hogs and make it more important to expand instead of just spamming hogs.
> > >
> > > No. The prior changes didn’t affect the low pad counts almost at all. The supply rate is way higher beyond past 2 bases though than pre-changes, which is good - mid-late game map control should be meaningful in terms of income.
> > >
> > > The problem is that people can get to tier 2 far too quickly right now. There is close to no counterplay to fast tech 2 By the time you scout it, they are already upgrading it
> >
> > If the early map control guy was able to get power nodes and they increased the node energy raw back to 2 or whatever then he would be able to transition just as fast and be able to quickly pump cyclops or hunters. Then the fast tech guy would be behind.
>
> Not at all. By the time the increase in power from the nodes really start to show their effect the quick tech player already has multiple hogs on the field. No, the best way to put hogs in check is it limit the effectiveness of a gen first, single gen build. This can be achieved by reducing the power available on the map. Not only would it take longer to tech up building two generators, but their supply cost limits the supply available to them for their early hog push.
This is not true I guess people forget that they nerfed power node energy rate. So that benefited the quick tech player. If you had map control you would tech just as quickly and would be able to build counter units. Faster because increased energy.
What about a bit of an increase to t2 upgrade build time and moving av to t1? You wouldn’t be able to pump av without hurting your own teching up but at least you could field some if needed. Plus making the build time for the upgrade longer would give you more time. Hogs could be still be strong but you wouldn’t be forced to rush tech 2 yourself to counter them.
> 2535458189306164;17:
> What about a bit of an increase to t2 upgrade build time and moving av to t1? You wouldn’t be able to pump av without hurting your own teching up but at least you could field some if needed. Plus making the build time for the upgrade longer would give you more time. Hogs could be still be strong but you wouldn’t be forced to rush tech 2 yourself to counter them.
Moving AV to t1 would imbalance choppers/ ghost/jackrabbits
> 2533274855353246;2:
> t3 vehicles already beat hogs and marauder.
^ If that was the case then people would build wraiths and scorpions (no one does)
> 2533274906761445;1:
> buff AV a little bit and give t3 vehicle a small multiplier over hogs/ marauders.
>
> the end.
AV does not need buff but power should be converted for supplies or hogs need to cost more