Before I go into it, please allow me to say one thing, “If you’re upset, confused, or skeptical to how Halo 4’s CTF mechanics can work or benefit the game, then you’re not alone.”
The Issue
From the beginning Capture the Flag has been Halo’s flagship objective base game mode (IMO). So it’s surprising to see the changes implemented within the PAX Build for example.
NOTE - All items listed are from Impressions and Community Speculation
Flag Carrier now has a “Waypoint” over his/her head alerting the opposing them, “KILL” vice versa; alerts Teammates, “ESCORT”
The Flag will be an automatic pick-up once players touch it.
No matter the weapon the Flag Carrier moves at base movement speed, and wields the magnum.
Once the Flag is possessed the player wielding it will be unable to drop the flag at will.
Concerns/Opinions
Note - These are my personal opinions on how I see CTF as of now
Having a Waypoint alerting all players who has what in my opinion helps CTF by giving an emphasise to “PLAY THE OBJECTIVE”. This also fixes the, “what the hell is he” moment whenever you’ll hear, “Flag Taken”, but have no clue where they’re. Though I would like this to appear for the a few seconds of a fresh pick-up.
Automatic Flag Pick-up is a no-no in my book, I think everyone should have the option to choose if they would like to be a Flag Carrier. Some people are better at running flag better then others. Maybe this is to speed up the game, but I, from what I see disagree with this.
Not being able to Drop Flag…This again isn’t the best decision in my opinion, I can think of a multitude of scenarios that being able to drop the flag will be sooo essential with in game decisions, but I’ll get to that later.
The Compromise [Solution to CTF]
"KILL/ESCORT" Waypoint: I get where 343 is going with this…, but I think it’ll take away the stealth aspect of playing CTF, many great moments in CTF games are always the element of surprise. Instead of saying to get rid of the waypoint, have it display for a short period of time, long enough for everyone to notice, but eventually goes away. So it’s really like an alert. Have it flash a few times, “Flag Taken” is announced and the waypoint fades away
Automatic Flag Pick-Up/Unable to Drop*: Please 343 reconsider this design, I’m sure the majority of CTF players (Who actually play the objective)know how important this is. Also I know the magnum flag combo may be seen as a way to improve the carrier and with their base movement sped up, this is a good thing, but the inability to drop flag in my opinion can hinder the experience. I am a little biased to flag juggling because it introduced a meta-game to running the flag, but being stuck with an underpowered magnum doesn’t sound like an improvement to being the Flag Carrier. It was a satisfying experience dropping the flag and fending for myself with my wits and BR, or other primary/secondary weapon I may have equipped at the time. BUT…I know you’re innovators, and as a game designer new things are essential to evolving a established Sanbox, so please read my compromise with FLAG JUGGLING.
<mark>Flag Juggling</mark>
Based upon player weapon(s) i.e. Primary: BR Secondary. Boltshot - Player will wield Flag w/ Boltshot as secondary weapon alongside the holding of the flag
…but player holding two weapons classified as Primary i.e. Primary: BR, Secondary: DMR, will resort to the traditional mode of Flag transport using both hands.
I’m not ranting or disapprove with the direction of Halo, as a fan I’m addressing my concerns to you guys who’re hard at work to bring us a great game, so if any of these changes aren’t too much of a stretch for the team, please consider them, but best of luck to Halo 4 going GOLD within the upcoming weeks
ALSO TO MY HALO BRETHREN, Ease up, and address your complaints/concerns in a mature manner, you guys do know without the Community there will be no Halo.
Good ideas! I feel the same. I think 343i was trying to stop teams from holding on the flag near the cap zones by making people hold the flags, but as I stated in my thread, it won’t stop people that I play with, they will simply kill the flag carrier and let some of the guys that really like to camp hold the flag. It changes nothing.
I honestly like the new system. The auto pickup is like CE and makes it flow better. I remember the first time I played Halo 3 CTF. I walked up to the flag turned around and went to exit only to realize I didn’t pick it up.
Not being able to drop the flag is a bit strange IMO but it promotes teamwork I guess. Then again back to CE, beaver creek, infiltrate the enemy base while a teammate goes onto the roof. Grab the flag and toss it up to my waiting team mate. He hops down goes through the tele and 10 seconds later, flag captured.
> I honestly like the new system. The auto pickup is like CE and makes it flow better. I remember the first time I played Halo 3 CTF. I walked up to the flag turned around and went to exit only to realize I didn’t pick it up.
>
> Not being able to drop the flag is a bit strange IMO but it promotes teamwork I guess. Then again back to CE, beaver creek, infiltrate the enemy base while a teammate goes onto the roof. Grab the flag and toss it up to my waiting team mate. He hops down goes through the tele and 10 seconds later, flag captured.
I’m willing to give the new system a try, and I’ve seen it discussed in a few other forums, threads about whether or not the Classic Settings will allow for the reversion of the past titles, but we’ll see. Want Halo 4 to be here already ya know?
> Not being able to drop the flag is a bit strange IMO but it promotes teamwork I guess. Then again back to CE, beaver creek, infiltrate the enemy base while a teammate goes onto the roof. Grab the flag and toss it up to my waiting team mate. He hops down goes through the tele and 10 seconds later, flag captured.
Well, you disproved your point there. Being unable to drop the flag is really a huge drawback. It destroys so many potential strategies. Strategies related to both teamwork and individual play. There are so many CTF tactics involving dropping the flag. The most common of them being dropping it to defend yourself with your primary weapon. Then you have all the ways of swapping the flag between you and your teammate to deliver it more quickly. Removing the ability to drop the flag is a bad design decision in every possible way.
> > Not being able to drop the flag is a bit strange IMO but it promotes teamwork I guess. Then again back to CE, beaver creek, infiltrate the enemy base while a teammate goes onto the roof. Grab the flag and toss it up to my waiting team mate. He hops down goes through the tele and 10 seconds later, flag captured.
>
> Well, you disproved your point there. Being unable to drop the flag is really a huge drawback. It destroys so many potential strategies. Strategies related to both teamwork and individual play. There are so many CTF tactics involving dropping the flag. The most common of them being dropping it to defend yourself with your primary weapon. Then you have all the ways of swapping the flag between you and your teammate to deliver it more quickly. Removing the ability to drop the flag is a bad design decision in every possible way.
Thats why I never said it was the best teamplay enhancer. I loved CE battle/beaver creek because you could do that strategy and it worked so well. I think personally there could be a way to balance it out so its not just constant juggling like an animation to pick up the flag but no animation to drop it other than your hands quickly letting go. I never juggled because I usually had decent team mates defending me. But I can hold my own with a pistol. The waypoint is not new to me though, once again I must reference CE.
> The current ctf settings reek of “babies first ctf”. It holds your hand at every turn, and forcibly pushes you in the case of the auto flag pick-up.
>
> So yeah, I really hope it’s not the standard.
Halo 4 really has an over abundance of casual HUD Elements
> The current ctf settings reek of “babies first ctf”. It holds your hand at every turn, and forcibly pushes you in the case of the auto flag pick-up.
>
> So yeah, I really hope it’s not the standard.
Was that first sentence a zero punctuation halo wars reference? If so go get a cookie because you deserve it.
I don’t believe that the touch pickup will be a full time setting, and that could always change. the option to have this setting has always been around, and was the only way to do it in halo 1. This will definitely have some flexibility to it in the final product, so no need to worry about that if you ask me.
as far as trying to drop the flag, has anyone tried switching weapons to drop it? I haven’t seen any footage yet (will be hopping to that as soon as possible) and it seems to me like that would be the easy solution.
> as far as trying to drop the flag, has anyone tried switching weapons to drop it? I haven’t seen any footage yet (will be hopping to that as soon as possible) and it seems to me like that would be the easy solution.
From what I’ve seen, people are unable to drop the flag, even MLG guys who’ve played it and uploaded videos from PAX were unable to drop the flag, in all honesty I hope it’s a really really bad bug no one caught, but if not i hope 343 reconsiders this design decision.
> Then again back to CE, beaver creek, infiltrate the enemy base while a teammate goes onto the roof. Grab the flag and toss it up to my waiting team mate. He hops down goes through the tele and 10 seconds later, flag captured.
That’s not the whole setup. One in enemy base, one on enemy roof, one on your roof. Throw flag on enemy roof, take flag through teleporter, throw flag on your roof, drop down with the flag and cap it.
I doubt that disallowing flag dropping will create an environment that promotes more skillful gameplay than the situation I described on Beaver Creek. It essentially takes the Reach Slayer mentality of “whoever is in a larger group at the time of the encounter wins” and applies it to CTF as well when the Beaver Creek setup took infinitely more team work than simply rolling as a group around the flag carrier.
> Automatic Flag Pick-Up/Unable to Drop**:
>
> Please 343 reconsider this design, I’m sure the majority of CTF players (Who actually play the objective)know how important this is. Also I know the magnum flag combo may be seen as a way to improve the carrier and with their base movement sped up, this is a good thing, but the inability to drop flag in my opinion can hinder the experience. <mark>I am a little biased to flag juggling because it introduced a meta-game to running the flag, but being stuck with an underpowered magnum doesn’t sound like an improvement to being the Flag Carrier. It was a satisfying experience dropping the flag and fending for myself with my wits and BR, or other primary/secondary weapon I may have equipped at the time</mark>. BUT…I know you’re innovators, and as a game designer new things are essential to evolving a established Sanbox, so please read my compromise with FLAG JUGGLING.[/li][/list]
I too thought of this at first, but I think 343i is trying to make a more team oriented game, rather than a one man wrecking crew begin able to go after the flag and return it, you will have to include your team in your success. I do agree 100% with having an option to pick it up in the first place though. Also I had an idea that you could get out of holding the flag by handing it to a teammate. This would be a nice feature i think to combat automatic pick ups if you accidentally pick it up and you have a much needed power weapon.
Because of the no drop, flagsassinations, and pistol wielding, i can’t wait for CTF. It should feel quite fresh.
CTF is one of my favourite gametypes in Halo and I’m happy to see it return. Seeing the flag pickup on touch and no dropping of the flag poses a problem though.
I can not count how many times I have solo flag ran in Halo 3. I’ve won dozens of Avalanche matches with me having all 3 points and rarely any help.
Now, the trick to that success is having some form of powerful ordnance to defend myself should anyone get too close. Now I can’t even drop the flag to defend myself properly? I can get used to it but I’m not sure it was necessary. It does promote teamwork though.
As for picking up the flag on contact, that’s a big no-no. I don’t want to be strafing someone and then mistakenly pick up the flag and no longer be able to fight because I couldn’t see the accursed thing. This works fine in Speedflag in Reach but that was Stockpile. This is CTF and eliminating that player choice is damaging. This is an idea that needs reworking.
Lastly, the waypoint completely eliminates stealth in CTF and will make for more Flag Carriers being killed before they can get anywhere. Half the fun of being on defense with a stolen flag is coordinating with your team to find and take down the Flag Carrier. Adding the waypoint seems like a handicap and a more user-friendly piece for new players. Again, this does promote actually accomplishing the objective instead of racking up the kill count to beef up your stats but it really is unnecessary.
> I can’t believe you can’t throw down the flag once you grab it.
>
> Waypoint’s as well? Seriously? Why is there SO much disapointment coming from Halo 4 …
I think it’s about accessibility, honestly Halo needs the boost with bringing in a new wave of casual fans, just look at the decline of Reach’s population. I think the way that 343 has handled their info dumps have been mismanaged, also the lack of in depth ViDocs, and no not an overview of how an event went…
> I can’t believe you can’t throw down the flag once you grab it.
>
> Waypoint’s as well? Seriously? Why is there SO much disapointment coming from Halo 4 …
Then don’t believe it. it’s not a fact until verified as such.
and the waypoint is gunna be able to be turned off. don’t get so flustered over an option that is in the game.
