Social players please understand the fact...

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

…that you need 1-50(or some form of Ranked/Social structure) to have fun. We’ll maybe not to have fun but to have a much better experience. The Halo you’re playing right now could be so much better without any actual gameplay changes. Just simply putting people in playlists that they belong in.

I’ve made many posts about this and many casual/social/relaxed players just don’t get the point. I see tons of people bashing 1-50 and really nobody should be doing that. It benefits everyone in the game. If social players would agree that Halo needs a proper in-game ranking system then we would all be playing a better Halo game. I’m not saying that adding 1-50 will automatically enhance the gameplay of Halo 4. I’m just saying that it’ll start placing people where they belong. Sure, not every social player will stay in social. Not every awesome player will play Ranked but most would and it would certainly help. I honestly can’t see why players hate the idea of competitive in-game ranks.

It’s already established that every competitive player likes 1-50. That’s just an undisputed fact. Social players on the other hand can’t stand the idea of having a ranking system. Why? Do you like tryhards(I’m just calling them this to get the point across, don’t get mad competitive players…) being in all of your matches and killing you a bunch? Do you like getting matched up against full teams that outplay you and your random team? You wouldn’t like to play against other people with the same simple idea that everyone is playing to relax and enjoy themselves?

I think the first thing that comes to mind in a more casual/relaxed/social players mind is “OH NO!, 1-50! I don’t feel like getting bashed because my rank is bad.” Which really if you’re not a competitive player you shouldn’t worry about this. Just play the social playlists and ranked players will play ranked. You can’t really be harassed if you’re not playing ranked. I’m not going to say it doesn’t happen but those same people that would bash someone about their rank in social are the same people bashing you now for losing the game. You can’t get rid of those type of players no matter what. Thankfully we have a mute button.

Having 1-50 gives Ranked players the experience they want and gives Social players the experience they want. Even some of the more relaxed players enjoy a nice competitive game every once in a while and compeitive players enjoy a more relaxed game every once in a while. In both Reach and Halo 4 we are basically forced to have a mixed experience with every game being a random mix of competitive and non-competitive players. It’s not mean’t to be like this. I just wish that both relaxed players and hardcore competitives could understand that both sides need an in-game ranking system instead of harassing each other about how we do or don’t need it.

Since the topic is mainly focused on the not so competitive player… How would you feel if the situation was flipped? I know many hardcore competitive players can be irritating on the forums but put yourself in their position. As a more social player would you want all the playlists to be ranked? Can you at least understand the frustration and see how having ranked can benefit both sides and make the game much more enjoyable?

I’m kind of a middle man in the grand scheme of the Halo games. I have days where I want to play relaxed and just enjoy myself. Then I have days where I want nothing more than an insanely competitive experience. With Halo Reach and Halo 4 I find myself sitting in the playlist lobby scratching my head wondering what I should play. I know that “having a little number” next to your name may be silly. That’s one thing that happens to be brought up a lot by both social and competitive players. The point isn’t in the number. The point is in the separation. Without that number people can’t really figure out where they stand and people take playing competitively a lot less seriously. Regardless of why competitives like the number rank it’s what gets the players separated and that should be enough for everyone to want ranked to return.

I’m trying to cover a bunch of points that might be brought up so I’ll talk about 343’s Waypoint CSR. I know that a bunch of you will say. “Well isn’t CSR good enough?”. It’ll probably be followed by a “Gosh, you competitive players just can’t stop complaining…”. If that is said in this thread at all I’m just absolutely going to assume you didn’t read the OP at all. CSR being waypoint only is ok but it’s not going to do enough. If it isn’t in-game it’s not going to be taken as seriously. Some people more than likely wont even know it’s in the game. If CSR is in all playlists that will be even worse. Then once again you’re meshing people together which is exactly what we have right now. Only social players are now forced to have a rank in which they don’t want. It’s basically a role reversal and things still aren’t competitive or social.

I guess people will probably talk about true-skill and how it is the thing that matches people up together. About how 1-50 isn’t the thing that causes competitive and social matches. We yes, the underlying true skill is what matches players up together. It doesn’t match players with the same motives together though. Just because someone has a K/D of 1.30 doesn’t mean that them and a team full or randoms that don’t really care about playing competitively should match up against a full team of 1.30 K/D players. The full team is going to try hard and win and the randoms are going to just run and gun/do whatever and get stomped by coordinated tactics. With ranked and social that more than likely wouldn’t happen as that full team would likely be playing ranked and those social players would have probably been matched up against players that also want to just play.

I honestly don’t even know what to call the Halo match-making anymore. It’s not social and it’s not ranked. It’s like a horrible mix-bag of players that shouldn’t ever match up with each other. Who honestly doesn’t agree that 1-50 wouldn’t have helped both Reach and Halo 4?

On a side note I know that 1-50 in-game is more than likely impossible to have in Halo 4. This isn’t so much as to ask 343 to get it in the game. The purpose of the thread is mostly to make awareness and maybe have people come together and agree that it should at least be in the game and maybe we will get something come Halo 5. More casual players need to realize that not having ranked affects them just as much as if affects the hardcore players. The community really needs the separation.

while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.

i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.

besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.

While I’d be fien with a 1-50 rank system I still couldn’t care too much,a rnaking system to me would still be jsut anumber next to somone’s name,while I do wish the luck for those who would like a rank 1-50 playlist,I myself really wouldn’t care or bother about what number I was cause it can never make a diffrence

You are correct about one thing,granted no one likes having the pressure to be super good at a videogame,accept for those who’d be into that kind of stuff of course.

I hate to admit but in recent games it seems alot of the players,and even myself all seem a bit too aggressive now for some reason,cause I often find myself,which I like t consider myself a relaxed fellow,but I’ve noticed I’ve become overly agitated and angry with the players I go up against.

if that might be the case we’ll see what happens.

Not sure what Halo5 will have for us,but so long as we can still do assistations and sprint,even if it’s just far less then in H4 I’d be fine with the game.

good luck to both sides on this

> while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.
>
> i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.
>
> besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.

It has nothing to do with the competitive community. having a ranking system matches you up against players that are your own skill level, which makes the game more fun for everyone. i dont enjoy halo 4 because i faceroll everyone i play against. it just gets old and boring.

In addition to this, many people find a ton of enjoyment out of a ranking system (ask the millions of people playing LoL). why cant 343 satisfy the whole community instead of just catering to the social? As the game stands right now, it is a giant social playlist.

> > while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.
> >
> > i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.
> >
> > besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.
>
> <mark>It has nothing to do with the competitive community. having a ranking system matches you up against players that are your own skill level</mark>, which makes the game more fun for everyone. i dont enjoy halo 4 because i faceroll everyone i play against. it just gets old and boring.
>
> In addition to this, many people find a ton of enjoyment out of a ranking system (ask the millions of people playing LoL). why cant 343 satisfy the whole community instead of just catering to the social? As the game stands right now, it is a giant social playlist.

this already happens! why does everyone think ranks = better matchups? it doesnt! it just puts a number next to your name thats it!

anyway as i said before, i would like to see a balanced game over a meaningless rank anyday.

> while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.
>
> i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.
>
> <mark>besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.</mark>

I absolutely hate the misconception that the competitive Halo community is small. We’ll you would be right to say it’s small now considering that lack of competitive options. BUT if the competitive community is so small then why was Ranked/Social essentially split right down the middle? Ranked and Social Team Slayer both basically shared the same large number. If their were 25,000 people in Ranked slayer their were 28,000 in social. That doesn’t seem like a a very small amount of competitive players. Their are obviously players playing Halo 4 that would like to have a competitive experience considering the amount of times that I’m getting team shot and all that other fun stuff while playing with a team filled with randoms. I do agree that some things need fixed in the game but no matter how much fixing they do it will all be for nothing if social players keep playing against hardcore competitive players. Without 1-50 in-game I’m afraid to tell you that this is going to keep happening. I’m going to say it again. The player population needs the seperation.

In honor of black history month…

I had a dream, that all the ranked and social players could play in a setting that they enjoyed. That they not be judged by opposite player styles. They would only be judged by similar player types. Where all types of Halo players could enjoy their Halo experience!

:slight_smile:

> As the game stands right now, it is a giant social playlist.

It’s really not and that is what competitive players need to get out of their heads. Competitive players think Halo Reach and Halo 4 is just one big social experience and they are wrong. Casual players hate the idea of ranked and they are wrong. With rank not being present you have a mix of social players and ranked players. I think I’ll consider Halos matchmaking to be “Social Hardcore”. It’s not casual enough to be social and it’s not competitive enough to be ranked. It’s like relaxed players trying to play harder because of the competition in the playlists and the ranked kids not caring enough because they are just playing a bunch of terrible players. Halo 4 isn’t a social experience. It’s a conjumbled experience that no player can truly enjoy as much as they should be able to. This is why we need the separation.

I do think we need a 1-50 ranking system, but as ZombieFrogHorde said, I’d rather see other tweaks first before a ranking system comes in. Even though I think a 1-50 ranking system can bring back a larger number of competitive players.

> > while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.
> >
> > i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.
> >
> > <mark>besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.</mark>
>
> I absolutely hate the misconception that the competitive Halo community is small. We’ll you would be right to say it’s small now considering that lack of competitive options. BUT if the competitive community is so small then why was Ranked/Social essentially split right down the middle? Ranked and Social Team Slayer both basically shared the same large number. If their were 25,000 people in Ranked slayer their were 28,000 in social. That doesn’t seem like a a very small amount of competitive players. Their are obviously players playing Halo 4 that would like to have a competitive experience considering the amount of times that I’m getting team shot and all that other fun stuff while playing with a team filled with randoms. I do agree that some things need fixed in the game but no matter how much fixing they do it will all be for nothing if social players keep playing against hardcore competitive players. Without 1-50 in-game I’m afraid to tell you that this is going to keep happening. I’m going to say it again. The player population needs the seperation.
>
>
> In honor of black history month…
>
> I had a dream, that all the ranked and social players could play in a setting that they enjoyed. That they not be judged by opposite player styles. They would only be judged by similar player types. Where all types of Halo players could enjoy their Halo experience!
>
>
> :slight_smile:

i agree on the separation of the lists however the “pro” players are few and far between. Just look at team throwdown. its one of the least popular lists. numbers dont lie, this game needs more fixes and tweaking before it needs ranks.

> I do think we need a 1-50 ranking system, but as ZombieFrogHorde said, I’d rather see other tweaks first before a ranking system comes in. Even though <mark>I think a 1-50 ranking system can bring back a larger number of competitive players.</mark>

i think it would bring them back as well…AFTER the other changes like balancing issues and whatnot. not many will come back solely for the number next to their name.

I think everyones fine with ranking they just get agitated because such a simple thing that really has no value is causing people to leave a game they actully really enjoy. Like really i agree in game visible ranks should be in there but its not like your going to lose your humanity without it being visible.

Wait are you really suggesting that the so called “in game ranking system that is there but you cannot see it” works, thats why in ctf i run around with the flagnum getting kills because the game would end to quickly if i just capped them all as quickly as possible lol we need an actual ranked playlist at least a few. And to point out something that is always missed when talking about the team throwdown population, the people in their playing the playlist are just the people who either cant find a team or cant find “Custom Lobbies” to join which we can then choose what map and gametypes we are going to play and can play all of them instead of the same one over and over

If you can check on these forums than you can check your rank simple as that everything else is nitpicking and whineing. Yes it should of been visible but its not the end of the world.

> while i appreciate the way this is written, i must disagree.
>
> i would rather 343 tweak and fix the other stuff in the game before going on to a ranking system.
>
> besides the “competitive community” isnt really that big to start with so it seems like wasted effort as well.

Neither is the grifball community.

Exactly I have no issue just checking my rank online to see where I am at. As long as the system works and makes sense there is no problem with it just being shown online

> > I do think we need a 1-50 ranking system, but as ZombieFrogHorde said, I’d rather see other tweaks first before a ranking system comes in. Even though <mark>I think a 1-50 ranking system can bring back a larger number of competitive players.</mark>
>
> i think it would bring them back as well…AFTER the other changes like balancing issues and whatnot. not many will come back solely for the number next to their name.

This is the thing that people need to understand. Having ranked isn’t something that just brings competitive players back. It brings casual/social players back as well. I don’t play Halo as much because I want to play in a casual relaxed setting but you can never tell what type of players you’re going to play against. With the addition of Social/Ranked you can almost always know what type of game you’re about to get into. I know many casual players that don’t play Halo and only play CoD now because it’s more of a social easier experience. Take the competitive players out of the average playlists in Halo 4 and boom… you have more social players playing it. I have friends that I WOULD LITERALLY BUY THEM A COPY OF HALO 4 if ranked and social existed. Knowing that their isn’t a way to always play relaxed I know my friends won’t enjoy it.

> > I do think we need a 1-50 ranking system, but as ZombieFrogHorde said, I’d rather see other tweaks first before a ranking system comes in. Even though <mark>I think a 1-50 ranking system can bring back a larger number of competitive players.</mark>
>
> i think it would bring them back as well…AFTER the other changes like balancing issues and whatnot. not many will come back solely for the number next to their name.

You’d be surprised what people will do for a number next to their name.

> If you can check on these forums than you can check your rank simple as that everything else is nitpicking and whineing. Yes it should of been visible but its not the end of the world.

I covered this in the OP… Without the ranks being visible nobody will care and it’ll essentially be exactly how it is now. You can’t take ranks seriously if the people playing the playlists don’t know they exist or care about them. Another thing is seeing how you match up against the other players. For all we know half the games we will be matching with players that aren’t even on the same level. 343 had years and years to think about this stuff… It’s very vital that they at least implement it into Halo 5. It’s kinda sad that people don’t even realize how vital 1-50 is for everyone. As a social player would you rather play against pros or social players? As a ranked player would you rather play against pros or joes? It’s not that hard to figure out that separating the players would almost ensure everyone having a good time.

Bringing up team throwdown has nothing to do with ranked playlists. The competitive player population is NOT small. The current system that puts players together based on skill does NOT work, obviously.

Having CSR on Waypoint is pointless. Every person who has said “The players who actually care will check Waypoint” is lacking intelligence. I care about ranks and if it were visible in-game, I would care. But even then, I would NOT get on Waypoint after every game and check my opponents’ ranks that I just played against, nor my own for that matter. Perhaps I would check my rank as often as I check this forum, which is not that often, but this point brought up by the anti-ranked population is not valid.

To help explain my point, ask yourself how often you actually click “browse medals” after games. If you do at all, it’s not NEARLY as often as you viewed them every other Halo game, which made it easy to see in the carnage report. I enjoyed seeing the other team’s achievements, such as seeing a guy get an extermination and seeing who the MVP was (pre-Reach). Now, I NEVER click “browse medals” even on my own stats. So do you really think people would get on Waypoint? Seriously, be reasonable.

Having the rank visible makes it so much more exciting to play people with higher ranks than my own, and I will never know this information before the game starts in Halo 4.

Having the playlists separated will do good for both competitive and players who worry about getting flamed for a low rank while being too stupid to use the simple mute button. All this needs is a “show rank” check box that can be toggled in social playlists. But always shown in ranked. I do not understand why anyone would be against this separation. Not one single reason makes sense. Not one.

I do think that ranks should have been the first thing implemented because it helps guages a players skill for us and we can automatically know what we have to expect as the game progresses. It also helps the game match teams with other teams of the same caliber so the games aren’t unbalanced. Now though, there are too many other things to be fixed. Nerfs to go around, community maps to be tested for in multiplayer, they’re working on a csr right now so you should be fine when the Castle maps are released.

I try to understand these discussions to be a fair member of the community, I really do, but I tend to have one problem: what exactly is the meaning of a casual player? Every time I see one of these threads, I never actually see anyone state what criteria they believe makes up a casual player or what it is that said player would want.