Social needs to remove hidden MMR - especially for ranked

Halo is a competitive multiplayer shooter and always has been. People would not play if it wasn’t.

Sure kid

The idea of SBMM is to be loose and matched around the team more than the individual.

But there will always be issues with squads across a wide range of skill levels. The lowest ranked member is always going to be up against it. There is no way around that.

If the lowest ranked member of a team is having fun… the opposition are likely being slaughtered by the higher ranked members. So the "solution’ is to make the experience for the entire opposition miserable?

The best way for the system is to match the teams and make the game competitive. That’s the most likely way to make the game fun for the most people.

If you choose to run around with mates that are significantly better (or worse) than you… that’s on you. And I would know - if I play with my son’s I pretty much spend the whole match holding on for grim death… hoping that I’m not the reason we lose.

So basically, you’re saying it’s my fault I actually want to play with my friends and mad that we can’t have fun from the current MMR.

Gotcha

Keep on shilling

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I guess I’m making some assumptions on relative ranks here…

But if you want to put a Silver/Gold player in a team of Diamond/Onyx - then something has to give.

Random MMR is not the answer as while the lower ranked player would be more competitive - the group of Diamond/Onyx would absolutely crush most of the opposition served up.

It’s not a new problem. And there is no easy answer.

So, yes. Until someone clever comes up with a better plan then this isn’t the “fun” you are looking for.

Actually, there is a solution for a team of diamond/onyx and 1 silver/gold who want to have a fun match together without sacrificing other players, it’s called bot bootcamp. :wink:

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I accept your concession.

First we have no Forge, but now Halo Infinite is a social media app !!!???

Like I said, social playlists should NOT BE COMPETITIVE.

Seriously, if you want to play competitive games, go play ranked

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Completely wrong! Social MUST be competative, because you simply can’t play casual when your completely outskilled. Anyone who disagree should just be honest and say that they believe lower skilled players aren’t allowed to play halo casually and have fun, because that is what you are effectively saying with that.

Ranked should not be competative per se. If a person is in a way to low rank, he/she should have an very easy match, not artificially put against way higher ranked people, just because it ‘should be competative’, because then your rank just doesn’t say much anymore. Just as a person who is in a too high rank should have a heck of a difficult match, since he is in a too high rank.

The reason why a lot of average and lower skilled people refuse to play ranked is just for that reason: the matches are often not competative, since (in the older ranked) they kept facing above average players who are ranking up from start (a lot of smurfing going on) and therefore they had absolutely no fun because they had no fighting chance and they refused to play it anymore. If you make social the same, what the heck are they able to play anymore? It will absolutely kill the playerbase.

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You can’t play casual if it is competitive either, if you aren’t trying your team is losing.
Old Halo’s didn’t have MMR that made social games competitive

So according to you, you can only play casual if you are able to completely stump the enemy team? That is the only way you can ‘relax’ without losing. But guess who will never be able to do that? Exactly: the average to lower skilled players, because they keep facing the more skilled players…

Every halo since H3 had it. CE and H2 only didn’t have it, because there was no SBMM available yet (H2 was used to create it), but CE and H2 also had a lot of lesser skilled players who just didn’t play MP, since they didn’t want to pay money just to get stumped on.

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No, you play casual because you don’t want a sweatfest.
Like I said, if even 1 player on your team decides they don’t want to try, the game is over. Why you may ask? Because of the MMR, the games are competitive.
Casual games should not be competitive, they should be laid back and fun

Occasionally they will. But the average-lower skilled players outnumber the more skilled players so the majority of their matches will be against other lower skilled players.

Your alternative is that even if all players try there best the game is still over, because there is no SBMM to balance it… (almost) nobody likes to play matches where you have no chance whatsoever.
If you want social to have an SBMM that doesn’t count your ranked history, because you play completely different: great, we could agree on that. But no SBMM would just result in matches where the outcome is already given before the players even load in. It will only result in mass quiting and a loss of the playerbase

And if it’s not competative, it’s no fun for the losing side. And perhaps also not for the winning side, because it could get realy boring.
edit: why do you think a lot of people don’t play bot bootcamp if they want to play casual? Because they find it boring, since it’s to easy.

No, because the higher skilled players play (on avergae) way more matches then the lower skilled players.

Any stats to back that up?

And if it is competitive, it isn’t fun either, it is a sweatfest

That is my point, you shouldn’t be forced to “TRY YOUR BEST, YOU GOTTA TRY YOUR BEST TO WIN, COMEON, YOU CAN DO IT”
Not in casual.

The same can be said with SBMM basically. All you need is 1 player to decide they don’t want to try and the match is over.

They aren’t going to remove SBMM now, so yeah, that is the best solution available. And there shouldn’t be cross playlist SBMM either, I can be great at SWAT (Tac slayer) but crap at other modes, but I get stuck with studs on the enemy team because I am great at SWAT (I’m not btw but that is an example)

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Just check profiles and you can see how much matches they played. I almost always see that the worst performing people in my matches have played less then 100 matches or at best up to 150 matches, while the best performing players often have over 500 matches played.

A game where your opponent is way better is always way more sweaty. So the least sweaty overal is a competative match. And if you want competative games to be less sweaty, the SBMM has to be tighter, so that the best player in the team doesn’t have to carry that hard, since the others are not skilled enough. The SBMM in social is already realy weak, wich creates large skill gaps and that makes it so sweaty, not the competativeness.
And again: if the SBMM in social would not count your ranked matches, you can play ‘casual’ in social and the SBMM would see that as your skill, so you can always play casual and still have competative matches. It’s only a problem when your sweatfests in ranked are counted into the social SBMM.

This only translates into: pro’s should not have to do their best, but lesser players should always do their best and in 90+% of the time still have no chance. Because that is what you get without SBMM. It’s a realy elitist position and would ruin the game for most players.

No it doesn’t. Never is SBMM so tight that that happens. The SBMM is already extremely lose where KDA’s of 10+ are almost in every match and even 20+ is not that rare.

Agreed on this.

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Yeah, it does

No one should be forced to be trying to do their best to win in a social/casual playlist

No it’s not. If my opponent is way better than me, I have accepted my fate and just play.

I don’t play ranked

The reason they aren’t good is because they don’t play a lot, lol.
The more you play, the better you get (usually)

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I think it is better to just agree to disagree on this, it is obvious neither of us is going to change the other’s mind.

We can agree that the SBMM for social should be separate from ranked and it shouldn’t be crossplaylist

You need to think of the population as a normal distribution curve.

The most players will be in the middle.

For someone towards the tails of the curve… the rest of the population is skewed towards the middle.

Or just think of it from percentages. If you are in the top 5% (high Diamond/Onyx) then from an random pool of players 95% will be ranked lower than you - at an average team level of Gold 6.

That’s a lot of “chill” (and streamable content) for the good players.

And it’s the opposite if you are towards the left hand side of the curve. New or struggling players would get stomped in pretty much every game. And the old “argument” of git gud just doesn’t hold anymore - we need to nurture and keep these players for the long term good.

Personally I think the answer to social playlists is more in the way we play. You can’t have the same rules, maps, and set ups as ranked and expect it to play any differently. We need new game types. We need multi-team. We need some form of handicapping to even out the playfield (either individually or across the teams).

Like I said above, we obviously aren’t going to change each others minds, we should just agree to disagree and agree on stuff that needs to happen.
Like the above quoted post.
Plus, social playlist MMR shouldn’t affect ranked and the MMR shouldn’t be cross-playlist. Like my example, I can be great at SWAT but not good at other modes, but since I am great at SWAT, I get sucked in with other strong players in every other mode