Social needs to remove hidden MMR - especially for ranked

Most of my friends that play with me can’t stand it. My dumb hidden rank is so high that i face super sweats and they don’t have fun which puts me at a disadvantage too.

I’m not a ranked guy but im also nowhere near bad at the game. My friends and brother convinced me to play ranked because its “fun”. Well i completely get steam rolled every match out of the 10 games but 1 against high onyx players. How is this placement fair if you just get demolished by already high players.

Why because of my hidden mmr am i facing Gods in ranked when i’m not even place? I only won one match out of 11 games and most of them i went negative (which isn’t normal for me). I seriously hope 343 gets rid of the dumb hidden mmr for social and just matches based on party size. As for ranked you shouldn’t be matching based off of your hidden social mmr.

Also i can’t stand how the placement matches work. I get that it wants to see where you are at but it already thinks i’m a high onyx and then allows me to get railed for 11 games (by high onyx players) only to give me a low diamond. I don’t play ranked but if it stays like this then i’ll stick to social.

11 Likes

Same. It is really annoying. If they’re gonna stick with it, it should be player matched vs player.

1 onyx per team
1 diamond per team
2 gold per team

ect ect

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Diamond 1 is the highest you can rank after placement games.

Social MMR exists to make it so players can’t abuse the system. If your friends are that much worse then this will always be the case, if they got games that were easy for them then you’d pop off an insane amount. Those games would always be a blowout. It sucks but I’d argue most games are the same, they’re more fun when everyone is a similar level.

With my much worse friends I stick to BTB where my MMR has the least impact. Or we play other games together. I play a lot of Halo by myself as I have an irregular play schedule and I like ranked but I’m significantly better than all of my irl friends.

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Having a system like I suggested would accomplish the same thing yet without making it unfair for bad plyaers

Wait diamond one is the highest you can get after placement? Why am I still facing high onyx players too?

Idk social needs to be no skill involved in matching, it just puts you up against anyone but matches based on fire team size. They need to make it like classic halo when it comes to social.

The only thing that should track skill of any kind should be ranked. But I prefer it to be the only way one through 50. I don’t like the placement matches at all if you’re going against high skilled players that are already ranked. It makes zero sense

I made a new account to test the matchmaking and played 5 bot bootcamp matches. Every one of my placement matches was against a full team of Onyx 1600+ players. I won only 2 games and got placed Diamond 1 on a brand new account. Ranked is beyond broken and I am glad they are doing a full CSR reset.

4 Likes

Yeah I don’t understand why they think it’s ok for high onyx players to dominate unranked ppl. Like can’t they have a better system where unranked only face unranked and make the placement matches only like 5 games instead of 10?

I know I’m better than diamond 1 but even when I search I’m still facing high onyx players after I placed. It’s broken beyond belief

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The problem is realy simpel: there should be no MMR in ranked. MMR is for social only. In ranked, you should just face people your own rank. Bronze vs Bronze, Silver vs Silver, Gold vs Gold, etc, etc. That way it also won’t matter how good you would do in socials for what match you get, it’s will always be against people the same rank. Only if there are not enough people playing within your own rank, you get some people from the next rank (but it should be made equal on both teams)

The problem will always be the placement matches, but i guess the system should first start and match you against platinums, if you are better then them, the next match should be against diamonds and if you were not better then the plats, your next match should be against golds, etc.

That would only keep 2 big problems:

  1. People with a rank would still face unranked players who could be onyx-skilled. Solution: The game should have some kind of correction on the credit you gain/lose because of that.
  2. People who deliberately team up with way lower ranked players to get easier matches. Solution: just forbid fireteams with more then 1 rank difference, so they can’t abuse the system anymore. It is ranked after all, not social.
6 Likes

I played all 10 placement matches today in solo KBM just to see how broken the hidden SBMM is. I Lost 10/10 with a -8.2 Kda. Still ended up placing the highest possible rank. I’ve never played a game on KBM before so you would expect something like gold but nope every game was like onyx 1700 - high diamond. I’m sure they know how bad this system is. It’s the worst ranked system halo has ever had, honestly surprised they launched the game with it in this state. A simple 1-50 with no ties to SBMM would have been exponentially better, even if they planned on changing it to something “modern” with SBMM later.

3 Likes

I’m sure it tries to some extent.

But I think you’ll find the Gold players on both teams will just be collateral damage as the Onyx and Diamond players get to work. They won’t be alive long enough to have any meaningful engagements vs each other.

After placement your CSR starts to the left hand side of your skill curve (to a maximum of D1). Your MMR is higher - hence the quality of your opponents. The system is giving you a chance to prove that you own the rank it thinks you deserve.

If you want close competitive matches for all players, across all skill levels, you need SBMM.

1-50 or Bronze to Onyx… it doesn’t matter as it’s still the same TrueSkill ranking underneath (your MMR).

But I do agree they should take away the CSR number - it just encourages toxic play.

It makes a lot of sense.

Your skill is represented as a normal curve with a mean (mu) and a variance (sigma). As the system gains confidence in your rank your sigma value falls and your rank becomes harder to shift (up or down).

Thankfully it doesn’t get as bad as H3’s dreaded “rank lock”.

But each season it is useful to increase the sigma value again and “unlock” your rank. Give you a fresh chance to prove if you can go up. Your rank is now volatile again - so you can move around a bit (which is why they hide it). You opponents will go up and down a bit too.

You don’t need to reset your mean (and thus opponent quality). Just the width of the curve. But it will settle down quickly - and hopefully with a rank that represents your skill.

This is more an “anomaly” than an indication that ranking is broken.

When you go into ranked as a new playlist it assumes your closest MMR as a starting point. In this case “Botcamp” is the only data it has - so that is your starting mean.

You only won two games - so the system still has your MMR at least 1200 - but it is probably falling rapidly. Keep in mind it can still take up to 50 games to find your actual rank.

And I call this an anomaly because it’s not intended. And it only affects new accounts going into ranked for the first time. And if they can’t keep up their rank will plummet back to where it should be.

It hardly “breaks” the game.

They don’t.

I’m sure nobody in Q&A sat around and said “I wonder what if someone just played Bots for a few hours and then went straight into ranked”.

Usually the system will start you with a more valid MMR from another playlist (which is a reasonble guess) or as stock average if you genuinely have no experience.

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But MMR is your rank.

The match-making system does the best it can to bring equal players together.

You are better having a range than simply saying division vs division.

Two Platinum players may be almost 300 MMR points apart… yet a Gold 6 could be a single point away from a Platinum 1.

Shouldn’t be a problem because even though the player is “unranked” they definitely have an MMR. The system knows they are Onyx - unless it is genuinely their very first game or two.

I agree whole heartedly. There needs to be an MMR range on squads in ranked.

I’m fairly confident I had Diamond 5 on mine after placing… but this was also 3~ months ago, so idk. I tried to check halotracker, but it doesn’t show that long ago. :man_shrugging:

I’m pretty sure Diamond 1 is the highest you can start with after the placement matches.

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No, it is overall rating

It would be much more fair than what it is now

Social playlists aren’t supposed to be competitive

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Probably been said already, but ranked isn’t a social playlist.

I agree, social should just be completely random with no skill involved and should be match based on the fire team size.

Like if there’s a slight skill based rank it would be nice to see it visually so you know where you are and so you can see others skill based matchmaking rank.

I’d rather it be completely random imo for social

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Yeah.

But if they were determined to do SBMM, why the heck didn’t they just own it like H5.

And it shouldn’t be cross-playlist SBMM, that is just stupid. I can be great at Slayer but crap at Swat, yet I get matched with really good players in SWAT. (sorry, TaCtIcAl SlAyEr)

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I agree that cross-list MMR should be subtle.

We don’t what they have changed from Halo 5 to Infinite. And I’m not sure it’s as influential as people are claiming - and some people are confusing it with the assumption of an older MMR when you enter a new playlist.

But still a big no to “random” match-making. It doesn’t work. It’s not “some good, some bad”. It’s bad for player experience and retention.

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Absolutely not. Players with average of below skill are not the personal cannon fodder for the elitst players, wich you would get if there was not SBMM.
On top of that you would see the amount of quiters skyrocket and the playerbase shrink even further. There are already a lot of people (especialy those below average) that quit matches because there already is a huge skillgap in social. The SBMM is already extremely weak, making it no fun for most players (the higher skilled players also, since they keep having to play at their best to compensate for those weaker players). Even players on winning teams are quitting because they have no fun playing with way more skilled players who ‘steal’ all the kills.

SBMM should be tighter in social, and it should be getten rid of in ranked. Ranked should have matchmaking based on rank, not skill.

This is do agree with, but that should be on top of SBMM in social or on top of rank based MM in ranked.

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The MMR they have right now is bad for player experience and retention. If I play with my friends in a “casual” playlist, I have to sweat my hardest for us to actually have fun. If I don’t, we get stomped, every time.
That isn’t “fun”

1 Like