I’m going to keep this short and sweet. I’m not trying to attack or annoy you, this isn’t a thread to look down on you. I’m just curious as to why many of the people on this forum dislike the Pro gametype.
I personally enjoy it simply because I dislike jetpack and random powerweapon extravaganza, so I want to know what you guys dislike about Pro settings. Maybe we can come to a middle ground, which I’ll help develop the gametype for if anybody is interested.
So yeah, shoot.
Because I like the radar. When your playing alone and nobody calls out where anyone is once you play against a decent coordinated team it’s just not fun anymore.
Also they force you to choose one of those “pro” loadouts while I myself enjoy once in a while to play with AR or the Stormrifle just for the pure fun of it.
I don’t like restrictions on my playstyle.
Even worse is, those pro settings area meant to be played on arena maps which mostly consists of forge maps.
Forge maps should be shoveled into a playlist of its on. I’m sick on seeing them everywhere in the playlist. Same grey bulky uninspired designs no matter how you look at it.
Also the so called “pro” gametype attracts a lot of ‘strange’ people. The gameplay gets somehow (don’t know how to call it) forced serious. I find normal Infinity Slayer much more relaxing…
I don’t necessarily dislike it (I vote for it sometimes when I’m in the mood), but the way it was implemented could use some work.
I am a bad player, and I get matched with bad players. Taking away motion tracking for bad players freezes everyone and results in excruciatingly slow play. Yes, I know I should get better (and I am working on it), but in the meantime, Pro on maps like Solace and Scythe is horrific.
For BTB, no way to kill vehicles. This has been sort-of fixed, but now is too far the other way (need more PP/PG on map and less SAWs).
No loadout automatics (and no, the aforementioned ubiquitous SAWs are not a good substitute). I’m not good with automatics . . . I’m better with DMR/BR (so much for autos being noob weapons) but I really like playing with them. Pro removes that, which is not a good thing.
So, that’s it in a nutshell for me. With that being said, I won’t say I dislike Pro . . . I just don’t vote for it a majority of the time (except BTB on Complex - which is awesome in Pro).
> Because I like the radar. When your playing alone and nobody calls out where anyone is once you play against a decent coordinated team it’s just not fun anymore.
>
> Also they force you to choose one of those “pro” loadouts while I myself enjoy once in a while to play with AR or the Stormrifle just for the pure fun of it.
> I don’t like restrictions on my playstyle.
>
> Even worse is, those pro settings area meant to be played on arena maps which mostly consists of forge maps.
> Forge maps should be shoveled into a playlist of its on. I’m sick on seeing them everywhere in the playlist. Same grey bulky uninspired designs no matter how you look at it.
>
> Also the so called “pro” gametype attracts a lot of ‘strange’ people. The gameplay gets somehow (don’t know how to call it) forced serious. I find normal Infinity Slayer much more relaxing…
Radar is definitely something that should be implemented into Slayer Pro. Given pro is supposed to be the casual version of throwdown, it should represent that and not be too drastic a change from infinity slayer.
The forced loadouts is more of a balance thing. It’s supposed to keep players on somewhat equal footing, though I dislike how only some and not all of the weapons are used (disregarding plasma pistol, stickies and boltshot which negatively affect gameplay.)
However, if you’re worried about loadouts I’d be willing to try something reach style to offer a bit more for the players to use. Possibly adding armor abilities to certain weapons and or loadouts (more powerful abilities to less powerful loadouts, and abilities such as Jetpack, Promethean vision and camo being left out) could offer more variety while retaining balance (hopefully. If I can).
As a forger, I take pretty big offense when people call the maps “Uninspired” and grey. You’ve no idea the work that goes into those maps, and some forgers spend months on one map alone to perfect it. There’s only so much we can do to make it look good given the limitations of forge.
Believe me when I say, given the opportunity we’d go all out to make these maps look as great as possible. There’s only so much “Inspiration” we can put into a map with forge.
The Pro name definitely needs to be changed. You’ll find another thread on that by a user named “Ramire77” I believe. Not totally sure if I got it right (pardon if I didn’t, I’m terrible with names and I’ve been here too long to remember specific users on specific posts).
> I don’t necessarily dislike it (I vote for it sometimes when I’m in the mood), but the way it was implemented could use some work.
>
> 1. I am a bad player, and I get matched with bad players. Taking away motion tracking for bad players freezes everyone and results in excruciatingly slow play. Yes, I know I should get better (and I am working on it), but in the meantime, Pro on maps like Solace and Scythe is horrific.
>
> 2. For BTB, no way to kill vehicles. This has been sort-of fixed, but now is too far the other way (need more PP/PG on map and less SAWs).
>
> 3. No loadout automatics (and no, the aforementioned ubiquitous SAWs are not a good substitute). I’m not good with automatics . . . I’m better with DMR/BR (so much for autos being noob weapons) but I really like playing with them. Pro removes that, which is not a good thing.
>
> So, that’s it in a nutshell for me. With that being said, I won’t say I dislike Pro . . . I just don’t vote for it a majority of the time (except BTB on Complex - which is awesome in Pro).
So we can all agree given it’s a more casual balanced playlist that radar should be added (I know many competitive players may disagree with this, but we may have to compromise) and the maps definitely need to be re-chosen for pro. I don’t disagree on that.
Completely agree. That’s not a problem with the variant so much as (and pardon my bluntness) 343i’s short-sightedness. They took away the main ways there were to kill vehicles without putting enough anti-vehicle weapons such as plasmas and stickies on map. That was a map problem though, not necessarily a gametype problem.
There’s AR loadouts in the Infinity Slayer version though. There needs to be a suppressor and storm rifle loadout if possible, but the AR loadout is there.
So changes need to be made:
Anything else? All those changes look very do-able, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem if 343i chooses to implement them at some point.
In the mean time, I’d be more than willing to put in a bit of time and set up a gametype and a couple of maps up if I could get testers (preferably people who didn’t like pro for these reasons) to join me for testing.
> Stuff
Those changes would make me happy.
Did the AR get added with the update? I am almost positive it was not there before.
> > Stuff
>
> Those changes would make me happy.
>
> Did the AR get added with the update? I am almost positive it was not there before.
I can’t debate with you on the before bit. I never ventured into infinity slayer much before the update (I just don’t like it) and only ventured in now to see what the weapons were like in how Halo 4 was “supposed” to be played. (Pardon me on that, I’ve grown a bit bitter towards Infinity Slayer over the months).
Anyway, it’s definitely in now, so it might have been added in the update. Not totally sure.
So, if I can create the gametype and rework a few maps (probably just 4v4 maps because I doubt we’ll get 8v8 going) would you be down for testing?
My biggest issue is lack of custom loadouts. I want to be able to use Suppressor or Storm Rifle whenever I like. Also my reflexes evolved around faster reload for some weapons (dexterity) or stability for others. I also used to have Shield package which give me a sec of advatage when counterstrike. Also my orientation is build upon combination of PV and radar. Sure enemy coming out of nowhere might be fun, but when things are getting messy with bullets and grenades flying everywhere, PV and radar are blessing.
My reflexes in Halo 4 evolved around these things, so when I have to use forced loadouts I feel uncomfortable. Also I know that enemies have same loadouts which means that fights are repetitive as hell. Some AAs are annoying (like camo or jetpack) but it’s much more annoying if you don’t have anything at all at LB button.
Also absence of personal ordnance isn’t fun at all. I see many people complaining about noobs having Rocket Lauchers, but I love to hunt noobs who got good weapons. It does not bothers me in gametypes like Dominion where you can receive powerweapons other way (like drops in your base), but in Slayer Pro you rarely see powerweapons at all. 90% of gameplay are just repetitive bursts with BR. After few years with Halo 3 this is essence of boredom. I want more gameplay factors and Slayer Pro isn’t even close to Infinity, or even standard Team Slayer in Halo 3/Reach.
> My biggest issue is lack of custom loadouts. I want to be able to use Suppressor or Storm Rifle whenever I like. Also my reflexes evolved around faster reload for some weapons (dexterity) or stability for others. I also used to have Shield package which give me a sec of advatage when counterstrike. Also my orientation is build upon combination of PV and radar. Sure enemy coming out of nowhere might be fun, but when things are getting messy with bullets and grenades flying everywhere, PV and radar are blessing.
I was hoping someone wouldn’t say that. Custom loadouts as they stand aren’t balanced, and there’s no way to make custom loadouts where some options are left out (as far as I’m aware of) in a gametype. I understand why you miss dexterity (I like it too) in pro, and stability, but there’s only so much that can be done.
As for the orientation, that’s where a skill comes in. I’m fine with putting radar in pro, but you also have to learn to function without it, or without promethean vision. PV is a very, very unbalanced and frankly ridiculous armor ability, which is one of the reason I prefer pro.
Would having setups/loadouts with different weapons and abilities be better than standard pro for you? So a few different set-ups with different perks and abilities but made in a way to be as balanced as possible?
I’m not sure how many players would agree with that (and I mean players who like pro as it is) because I think it’s part of the reason they like pro, but we’ll see.
> My reflexes in Halo 4 evolved around these things, so when I have to use forced loadouts I feel uncomfortable. Also I know that enemies have same loadouts which means that fights are repetitive as hell. Some AAs are annoying (like camo or jetpack) but it’s much more annoying if you don’t have anything at all at LB button.
It’ll take some getting used to, but remember there are a lot of players who like pro and classic setups who had to suffer through infinity slayer for the past 6 months. They’re people too, and while I can’t speak for them I know that many dislike AA altogether.
I wouldn’t say fights get repetitive. Halo 4 just doesn’t seem to flow properly in Pro settings. I think this might be due to players being so used to Infinity slayer that they try to play Pro like infinity slayer, which leads to them disliking it because it doesn’t work the same. Not saying that’s the reason you dislike it, just a possibility for others.
> Also absence of personal ordnance isn’t fun at all. I see many people complaining about noobs having Rocket Lauchers, but I love to hunt noobs who got good weapons. It does not bothers me in gametypes like Dominion where you can receive powerweapons other way (like drops in your base), but in Slayer Pro you rarely see powerweapons at all. 90% of gameplay are just repetitive bursts with BR. After few years with Halo 3 this is essence of boredom. I want more gameplay factors and Slayer Pro isn’t even close to Infinity, or even standard Team Slayer in Halo 3/Reach.
Part of the problem is entirely Halo 4’s fault. Powerweapons de-spawn far to quickly in slayer pro, and while in the new update they are there on static spawns (it was a new addition, if you haven’t played pro since yesterday) they disappear very quickly and aren’t as prominent because of this. I’d be all for changing that if I could, but it’s coded into the game so we can’t change it.
As far as personal ordinance goes, if you remember me you’ll remember by stance on that. If not, I just find them unbalanced. With static spawns it’s a fight for control of the power weapons. With Personal ordinance, you can get a power weapon at any time, from anything, in any place and you can get any power weapon. That’s my problem with them.
I know you don’t like Pro for these reasons, and I know pro isn’t close to infinity but I think that’s the point. It’s to add a balanced casual-competitive gametype to the (what should be known as) team slayer playlist.
Disliking it for not being infinity isn’t really fair to those of us who do like it, especially when you ask for it to be removed a lot. I don’t like infinity for the sheer randomness involved and it’s really not my cup of tea, but to me it looks like you don’t like pro because it isn’t Infinity slayer. That’s just as bad as Halo 3 players saying they don’t like Infinity Slayer because it’s not Halo 3.
It’s pretty selfish and pretty biased. Pardon if that came across rude though.
Pardon if it feels like I’m attacking you. I’m really not trying to have it come across like that.
Anyway, possible changes (in addition to the previously listed):
I think you kind of misunderstood me there.
These are the reasons why I avoid the pro gametype but by far it should not be altered or fiddled with.
> Radar is definitely something that should be implemented into Slayer Pro…
For its competitive nature playstyle it is very good that there is no radar as it enforces team gameplay as long as you have one. This in fact widens the skillgap and you sort of need to have a certain map awareness through good coordination and knowledge of spawns and timings.
Implementing radar into the pro settings would just shorten skill gaps leaving players less to strive for or to excel in.
Having 2 seperate playlists (e.g. infinity and pro) should be the way to go.
Want a competitive setting? -> Pro
Want just some slayer fun? -> Infinity
> As a forger, I take pretty big offense when people call the maps “Uninspired” and grey. You’ve no idea the work that goes into those maps, and some forgers spend months on one map alone to perfect it. There’s only so much we can do to make it look good given the limitations of forge.
By no means I meant to offense forgers, also I tried to rebuild “Chiron” from Halo CE but failed miserably. For what they do I saw amazingly well made maps. But the lack of a color palette or more distinct forge worlds or objects simply make the maps look bland as good as they well may be.
This is the fault of forge itself, not the ones creating them.
I thus prefer playing on the maps made by the developers futuring unique settings and have an aesthetice style or theme. It gives you a immense feeling of the lore and the universe of Halo.
Those levels of detail are just not available to do in forge.
I’ll take an exemple of Halo 3:
With all the dlc there is a very high amount of unique maps. But at the end of its lifecycle all those good maps (which were all made free up to that point) were replaced by forge maps and dozens of iterations of the same sourroundings.
As good as the gameplay in those maps may well be, it just lacks veriety in the optical department and thus making it very tyring to play on.
Forge should be used to give additions to the already available maps to keep things fresh once in a while but by no means replace them.
I hope you get what I mean.
TL;DR
> Because I like the radar. When your playing alone and nobody calls out where anyone is once you play against a decent coordinated team it’s just not fun anymore.
>
> Also they force you to choose one of those “pro” loadouts while I myself enjoy once in a while to play with AR or the Stormrifle just for the pure fun of it.
> I don’t like restrictions on my playstyle.
>
> Even worse is, those pro settings area meant to be played on arena maps which mostly consists of forge maps.
> Forge maps should be shoveled into a playlist of its on. I’m sick on seeing them everywhere in the playlist. Same grey bulky uninspired designs no matter how you look at it.
>
> Also the so called “pro” gametype attracts a lot of ‘strange’ people. The gameplay gets somehow (don’t know how to call it) forced serious. I find normal Infinity Slayer much more relaxing…
imo, radar puts you at even MORE of a disadvantage against a coordinated team. they’ll know where you are without even needing to SEE you, and are able to call out your position and get a teamshot on you before the encounter even begins. at least with no radar, you have a decent chance of just seeing one guy, who you can hopefully outshoot and get a kill before his teammates show up.
unless of course you prefer to crouch around the map so you can see them and they cant see you -_-
I’m fairly neutral on pro, minus the lack of radar, but I do have some suggestions, they’re not all mine though.
First there’s the name. It simply will scare people away no matter the settings, since “pro” is often interpreted as “very skillful”, “stripped down”, or “I will be destroyed if I pick this gametype”. It should be changed to “Infinity Lite”, as these suggestions turn it into just that.
Base traits actually override loadouts unlike Reach, meaning that personal loadouts don’t have to be sacrificed to deal with a few bad eggs. Change the secondary in base player traits to the Magnum and the Grenades to Frags.
Maybe change the AA, but I’m not sure, as only 3 are problematic, and forcing it to an AA will deny access to the less harmful one’s.
This does have the problem of keeping players from spawning with Pulse Grenades or a second primary, and may be a tad confusing, but it’s worth it.
Personal Ordnance should be disabled, or only used for ammo. In the normal Infinity variant, heavy weapons and snipers should be removed from Ordnance, I think that’s pretty universally agreed on.
Now that antivehicular weapons and Snipers are out of Ordnance, they should be added to the maps on consistent timers, and random Ordnance should disappear completely, be heavily altered in consistency, or be used to replicate static drop spawns, as they are unfair in any gametype. Alternatively, this static spawn can vary in terms of what weapon is given, so for example, you could get a Laser or Binary every 3 minutes for holding top mid on Ragnarok.
This (paragraph) should be applied to both modes.
Obviously add radar
> You’ll find another thread on that by a user named “Ramire77” I believe.
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst210638_Some-thoughts-on-player-mentality.aspx
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst210494_Proposed--Middleground--Gametypes.aspx
I just want to play classic halo/Team Slayer. It needs a Motion Tracking.
failing that give it its own playlist if 343 thinks its popular enough to be placed in to the to most played playlists surely it should have a playlist of it own?
> I think you kind of misunderstood me there.
> These are the reasons why I avoid the pro gametype but by far it should not be altered or fiddled with.
>
>
>
> > Radar is definitely something that should be implemented into Slayer Pro…
>
> For its competitive nature playstyle it is very good that there is no radar as it enforces team gameplay as long as you have one. This in fact widens the skillgap and you sort of need to have a certain map awareness through good coordination and knowledge of spawns and timings.
> Implementing radar into the pro settings would just shorten skill gaps leaving players less to strive for or to excel in.
>
> Having 2 seperate playlists (e.g. infinity and pro) should be the way to go.
> Want a competitive setting? → Pro
> Want just some slayer fun? → Infinity
I do understand why radar is left out of pro. Believe me, I don’t like radar. But There’s one problem with giving pro variants their own playlist. While I agree it’s the ideal set-up, there is the problem of population.
Last I played (earlier today) Infinity Slayer had just over 400 players online. Could you imagine the abysmal population counts that would occur if BTB pro and Slayer Pro were given their own playlist? I doubt there are enough players who would return to the game, even if they did hear about it…
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why radar is left out of pro, but take into account it’s also a more casual version of a competitive playlist. Most people who will play it likely won’t be running teams, so an added helper is fairly needed due to lack of communication.
> > As a forger, I take pretty big offense when people call the maps “Uninspired” and grey. You’ve no idea the work that goes into those maps, and some forgers spend months on one map alone to perfect it. There’s only so much we can do to make it look good given the limitations of forge.
>
> By no means I meant to offense forgers, also I tried to rebuild “Chiron” from Halo CE but failed miserably. For what they do I saw amazingly well made maps. But the lack of a color palette or more distinct forge worlds or objects simply make the maps look bland as good as they well may be.
> This is the fault of forge itself, not the ones creating them.
Indeed. Sorry I reacted tooth and claw there. I’ve had too many discussion about forge maps and/or their removal.
> I thus prefer playing on the maps made by the developers futuring unique settings and have an aesthetice style or theme. It gives you a immense feeling of the lore and the universe of Halo.
>
> Those levels of detail are just not available to do in forge.
Indeed. That I can understand. I only wish forge wasn’t so limited in its capabilities.
> I’ll take an exemple of Halo 3:
> With all the dlc there is a very high amount of unique maps. But at the end of its lifecycle all those good maps (which were all made free up to that point) were replaced by forge maps and dozens of iterations of the same sourroundings.
> As good as the gameplay in those maps may well be, it just lacks veriety in the optical department and thus making it very tyring to play on.
>
>
> Forge should be used to give additions to the already available maps to keep things fresh once in a while but by no means replace them.
>
> I hope you get what I mean.
I do, and I agree. Unfortunately, Halo 4 also doesn’t have a very good selection of default maps outside of Haven. Majestic map pack helps, but not enough people buy them for the maps to be seen online.
> TL;DR
> - no radar for pro cuz of higher skill needed
> - forge maps are awesome, forge itself isn’t
> - forge maps should be used to freshen up and not replace existing maps
Agree, but pro isn’t a completely skill based playlist. Think of it as a warmup playlist so to speak.
Agreed
Agreed.
Sorry for the large amount of misinterpretation there, and also sorry for jumping tooth and nail pretty quick. I don’t mean to come across as harsh (if I did) it just kinda happens.
> > You’ll find another thread on that by a user named “Ramire77” I believe.
>
> https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst210638_Some-thoughts-on-player-mentality.aspx
>
> https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst210494_Proposed--Middleground--Gametypes.aspx
Ah, there we go, thanks… I also see you have a proposed middleground gametype… I’m always late to the party eh?
Ah well. I guess this I’ll turn this back into a “why do you dislike” thread as opposed to a “and I’ll help build a new gametype” thread…
Because no radar.
I haven’t had a chance to play Pro since the update, so the second reason why I dislike Pro might have been corrected, but in any case my current reasons are:
No radar. The Infinity Playlists just do not have enough people with mics on, and thus not enough teamwork to allow this to work. The radars need to be turned back on.
No power weapons to fight over, which leads to a very dull and monotonous game. This is the one that I think has been fixed, but before the update there were was 1, maybe 2 weapons or powerups to fight over on any given map. Compare that to (off the top of my head) a DMR start on Reach’s Countdown, where you had a shottie, a concussion rifle, a sword, a couple needlers and a couple needle rifles to fight over.
I’m not up for the slayer pro because I’m focusing on specific weapons and infinity slayer lets me do that. I don’t want to be forced to use just precision weapons, but that’s just me.
Add
Radar and I’m 100% happy with pro but the name should be changed …
After 20+ years of playing video games, the last thing that I want out of a video game is a stripped down version of what could be possible. I want more guns, vehicles and abilities to use. I want to fight against players who can use those same aspects of the game in new and ever imaginative ways. I thrive and rejoice in the chaos of a multi-dimensional battle not restricted to some antiquated ideal of balance and fairness.
In the end, Slayer Pro is just a game that is a forced to lack variety and depth (my opinion). However I recognize that some players enjoy that type of game play and that they should have it available to them. I would just prefer that I not be forced to have less of a selection of the game type that I like, as I imagine those that like Slayer Pro would prefer not to have to be forced to play Infinity.
> I haven’t had a chance to play Pro since the update, so the second reason why I dislike Pro might have been corrected, but in any case my current reasons are:
>
> - No radar. The Infinity Playlists just do not have enough people with mics on, and thus not enough teamwork to allow this to work. The radars need to be turned back on.
>
> - No power weapons to fight over, which leads to a very dull and monotonous game. This is the one that I think has been fixed, but before the update there were was 1, maybe 2 weapons or powerups to fight over on any given map. Compare that to (off the top of my head) a DMR start on Reach’s Countdown, where you had a shottie, a concussion rifle, a sword, a couple needlers and a couple needle rifles to fight over.
New update added static weapon spawns to pro. Off the top of my head:
Haven: Sniper (Open), Sword (Top Mid), Concussion Rifle (Bottom Mohawk)
Adrift: Sniper’s on either side, OS (Centre)
Abandon: Snipers (Beach & Back gold) OS (Bottom Mid) SAW (Purple trees and blue ramp) Needler (Back Gold & Main Ramp)
Opus: Sniper (Back) Rockets (Mid)
The problem isn’t the lack of them, it’s how quickly they despawn.
> Add
>
> Radar and I’m 100% happy with pro but the name should be changed …
So common consensus so far is a Name Change and adding Radar.
> After 20+ years of playing video games, the last thing that I want out of a video game is a stripped down version of what could be possible. I want more guns, vehicles and abilities to use. I want to fight against players who can use those same aspects of the game in new and ever imaginative ways. I thrive and rejoice in the chaos of a multi-dimensional battle not restricted to some antiquated ideal of balance and fairness.
>
> In the end, Slayer Pro is just a game that is a forced to lack variety and depth (my opinion). However I recognize that some players enjoy that type of game play and that they should have it available to them. I would just prefer that I not be forced to have less of a selection of the game type that I like, as I imagine those that like Slayer Pro would prefer not to have to be forced to play Infinity.
I agree with your sentiment, disagree with a few things.
Some of Halo 4’s mechanics take away from the creativity of it all. That’s not to say it’s all bad, but there are a few that really do squander creativity, and force maps into a very bland playstyle.
I won’t go too into detail, but I will say this. Things like Jetpack take away not only from level design, but from a skill that was needed in the past. Jumping is basically dead nowadays. I’m an avid jumper, I like the creativity involved in it. But when you have maps designed to negotiate jetpack, jumping dies very quickly. It’s part of why I resent it. Sure, are there jumps? Yeah, but how often do they get used in Infinity Slayer? And do they really matter? I can do the same things with Jetpack so why do I need to learn them?
Other things consist of coming up with strategies to take out vehicles and crazy ways to outmaneuver your opponents but that’s hardly seen anymore due to Halo 4’s mechanics.
As for the lack of depth, that’s very, very debatable. But this also isn’t the place for it.
I respect your opinion and agree with your ideology, but disagree with the statement. I do agree you shouldn’t be forced to play it like I was forced to play Infinity or play something else, but I don’t think the population could support more playlists.
That’s part of why I want to know what things people dislike about Slayer Pro, so that those things can be addressed in a way that works for everybody.