So... When did Dr. Halsey learn about Spartan III

Alright… I recently re-listened to “First Strike” and then listened to “Ghost of Onyx”. For those who are unaware, these books (for the most part) takes place after Halo: CE.

At the end of First Strike Dr. Halsey discovers “something” and kidnaps Kelly. In Ghost of Onyx we learn that this something, was the Spartan III project, and basically it’s location (Onyx). The book portrays it as if this is the first time Halsey hears about it (which was probably the intention at the time since these books became part of the lore years before Halo: Reach, and was the first sign of S-III in Lore). This bugged me quite a bit. Since in Halo: Reach, she had already met plenty of SIII’s, even brought to Castle Base by one.

So I’m hoping to find people who have come further in the nerd-evolution who can speculate and clarify this for me.

Is this just a huge plot hole that hasn’t been explained, and can’t be made sense of?
Did she know of the Spartan-III’s already, just didn’t know there were more? or didn’t know where they were before? Or who was behind it (Ackerson).
When the HECK did Dr. Halsey learn about the project?? Can someone make a timeline of her knowledge or something, What is going ooooon?!? xD
Heeelpmeeee

She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.

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> She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.

Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.

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> She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.

Thanks for sharing, this seems very possible. I should try to get my hands on that journal :slight_smile:

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> > 2533274812652989;2:
> > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
>
> Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.

Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.

> 2533274812652989;5:
> > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> >
> > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
>
> Carter, Kat, Emile, and Jim are Spartan-IIIs.

“Jim” :joy:

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> > > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> > >
> > > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
> >
> > Carter, Kat, Emile, and Jim are Spartan-IIIs.
>
> “Jim” :joy:

He was super shy, didn’t see him a lot. Damn autocorrect lol

> 2533274812652989;5:
> > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> >
> > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
>
> Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.

Basically what the good dr said.

Your guess is as good as anyones. Theres a serious disparity between the lore around the events of Reach between the games and the books. So while the books would say that Halsey didn’t discover the spartan 3’s until after the events of Halo CE, the games seem to contradict that as she knows that all of noble team except Jorge aren’t spartan 2’s, and she does know that they’re all spartans because she refers to Carter as a spartan in the cutscene at the end of ONI Sword Base. The rule when it comes to lore disparities between the games and the books is generally to go with what the games say because those are the primary form of Halo media. Halo is a video game before it is anything else. But all that really tells us is that Halsey knew about the 3s before the Fall of Reach, but doesn’t tell us when exactly, and also makes reading First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx and Glasslands really confusing

> 2533274812652989;5:
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> > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> >
> > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
>
> Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.

I believe she knew that Noble team we’re spartans at the beginning of the game. If I’m not mistaken, she refers to Carter as a spartan at the end of ONI Sword Base. And seeing as she was very protective of the spartan 2s and treated Jorge notably warmer than the rest of Noble Team, I think she had to know that these spartans were not her spartan 2’s.

> 2535447788054505;9:
> Your guess is as good as anyones. Theres a serious disparity between the lore around the events of Reach between the games and the books. So while the books would say that Halsey didn’t discover the spartan 3’s until after the events of Halo CE, the games seem to contradict that as she knows that all of noble team except Jorge aren’t spartan 2’s, and she does know that they’re all spartans because she refers to Carter as a spartan in the cutscene at the end of ONI Sword Base. The rule when it comes to lore disparities between the games and the books is generally to go with what the games say because those are the primary form of Halo media. Halo is a video game before it is anything else. But all that really tells us is that Halsey knew about the 3s before the Fall of Reach, but doesn’t tell us when exactly, and also makes reading First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx and Glasslands really confusing

Good reply! thx. Though I disagree with Halo being mainly a video game series when it comes to lore. It’s a multimedia series, so I would weigh all media as equal lore, except the non-canon stories ofc, canon is canon. There for I’ll go with how I DR HALSEY I pieced it together, that she knew they were Spartans during Reach, there for called them Spartans, but didn’t really know much more about them, and then actually learned about them later.
When she learned about their actual existence could maybe be seen in the journal, at least the first time she writes about them.

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> > > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> > >
> > > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
> >
> > Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.
>
> I believe she knew that Noble team we’re spartans at the beginning of the game. If I’m not mistaken, she refers to Carter as a spartan at the end of ONI Sword Base. And seeing as she was very protective of the spartan 2s and treated Jorge notably warmer than the rest of Noble Team, I think she had to know that these spartans were not her spartan 2’s.

The height discrepancy is enough to key her in. But the fact that they had variants of her Mjolnir was sure to puzzle her. Like mentioned above, she knew someone was doing something else with her research, be it JAVELIN or something else. But she didn’t have confirmation on the term Spartan III until getting Ackermans files after Reach.

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> > > 2533274812652989;5:
> > > > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> > > >
> > > > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
> > >
> > > Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.
> >
> > I believe she knew that Noble team we’re spartans at the beginning of the game. If I’m not mistaken, she refers to Carter as a spartan at the end of ONI Sword Base. And seeing as she was very protective of the spartan 2s and treated Jorge notably warmer than the rest of Noble Team, I think she had to know that these spartans were not her spartan 2’s.
>
> The height discrepancy is enough to key her in. But the fact that they had variants of her Mjolnir was sure to puzzle her. Like mentioned above, she knew someone was doing something else with her research, be it JAVELIN or something else. But she didn’t have confirmation on the term Spartan III until getting Ackermans files after Reach.

She might not have known the term spartan 3, but she did know that they were spartans and that they were not spartan 2s. So I agree with you, she must have known that there were other spartans being created, but not known about the details of the spartan 3 program.

> 2533274812652989;5:
> > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> >
> > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
>
> Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.

Yet, she was still surprised about the Spartan III’s existence when being interrogated by the head of ONI in Halo: Glasslands.

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> > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> > >
> > > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
> >
> > Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.
>
> Yet, she was still surprised about the Spartan III’s existence when being interrogated by the head of ONI in Halo: Glasslands.

Only thing I remember her being surprised about was the existence of the Spartan-IVs, and Parangosky made it a point to rub it in her face that she never knew or suspected it.

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> > > > 2535431426452252;3:
> > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > She may have had rumblings about her research being used elsewhere, but she for sure knew new Spartans were being made once she met Noble Team according to her journal. She didn’t know they were IIIs, in fact she speculated they may have been something called JAVELIN (what that is we still don’t know). She likely connected the dots later after she accessed information about the IIIs under CASTLE Base.
> > > >
> > > > Actually she met the spartan III on Onyx. Spartan III were kepting secret by the ONI,because it was a spartan II named Kurt that was training them. You should read the book: ghosts of Onyx it telles a lot of things about the spartan III program.
> > >
> > > Carter, Kat, Emile, Six and Jun are Spartan-IIIs. She probably connected the dots about Noble’s origins later on after gaining access to Ackerson’s files and getting to Onyx.
> >
> > Yet, she was still surprised about the Spartan III’s existence when being interrogated by the head of ONI in Halo: Glasslands.
>
> Only thing I remember her being surprised about was the existence of the Spartan-IVs, and Parangosky made it a point to rub it in her face that she never knew or suspected it.

Well she thought Lucy as well as all Spartan III’s had the brain augmentations when she was arguing with Chief Mendez, which means at the very least, she isn’t familiar with the program.