@Darwi
Last season i was platinum 5 it was about 1100 CSR. This season i was placed gold 3 it is about 800 CSR.
How the current system works, its nearby impossible to get 300 CSR as a solo player, when the system tries to keep 50% win rate
Yes, which is why the goal should be to play better to get maximum points
I still don’t understand what this is referencing
There’s going to be a new ranking system?
This is nonsense, the MMR changes from match to match
Not everyone has the luxury of searching with a full team in this game, especially since nobody plays it.
Of course they’re not. There are countless variables from one person to the next. Raw skill can only overcome so much.
Your inability to fathom why people play ranked is fascinating. I can’t understand the mindset that you don’t want to improve at all in a competitive game you’re playing anyway.
That’s not how it works at all, you just have to keep winning.
MMR doesn’t adequately work like you think it does. It’s not like high MMR equals high skill in this game. You’re as likely to run into a platinum player as an onyx player with a 1500+ MMR. It’s not a good indicator of skill at all.
My slayer MMR is somewhere between 1600-1700 right now, for instance. I’m a very average player. Probably my lowest in ranked is in Oddball, I can never seem to win those searching solo, because the game loves matching solo players against full teams. But even that is somewhere around 1400 consistently.
I’m not talking about CSR, which makes sense as a ranking number. I’m talking about MMR, which you think is working well in this game.
It’s not about ego, it’s about enjoyment not only during the game, but pre/post game as well. My issue isn’t necessarily the SBMM but rather the removal of any sort of pre/post-match lobby system to continue playing/communicating with the people you just played against. How are you supposed to make friends when you only have time to interact as the game is happening? And Halo is SUPPOSED to be a casual party shooter, not a high-octane competitive sweat-fest like every other FPS - that’s what made it popular to people, the versatility of how to play it how they wanted. 343i is trying to get us to play how they think we should. The removal of speed-run exploits exemplifies that. And their strict control of socializing on the game through their disbanding lobbies and SBMM systems further emphasizes that.
I don’t give a crap about my rank in tiers - I just want to have my socializing features back. And SBMM Is one of the major reasons the game is lacking that, because they’re way too strict with it, trying to keep EVERYONE at that 50:50 split exactly, or as close as possible.
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Placing always tends to be a lower CSR than you end up. Your MMR curve is still wide.
As for this season - we’ve lost a lot of players. Most of those will have been from the middle and left hand side of the population curve. The new population will be dragged to the left.
So it may not be “realistic” to expect to match your previous season’s rank.
The system doesn’t try to keep 50%. It’s just what happens when accurately ranked players are matched against each other.
You are going 50:50.
Platinum players are going 50:50. Diamond players. Even Onyx players.
Everyone is going 50:50 (or thereabouts). The only difference is they are doing it against better players.
If you want to be Platinum again you need to go 50:50 against Platinum players.
So you want more points for a win and less for a loss?
Not much of a ranking system.
XP ranking. Hopefully weighted to performance. And military rankings.
It does. Keep it above your CSR and your CSR goes up faster.
Problem as old as team sports.
Don’t know what else to say - except what pretty much everyone has said since day dot - team up.
Countless variables working for and against everyone.
Balancing and cancelling each other out.
Just keep winning.
I want to improve.
You were describing how to raise your CSR by manipulating the system.
That doesn’t fit under my definition of “improving”.
But whatever floats your boat.
You do. But your MMR will find your actual skill level pretty quickly. And because you haven’t actually improved you will fall into line pretty quickly.
So you keep saying.
But generally those players will be performing at that rank - either as an individual or because of their solid team play.
That player with 1500 MMR may have not performed in that game… but because they win at least 50% of their game at that level they get their rank.
And keep in mind that there isn’t as big a skill gap as you think. A Platinum player should beat a Diamond player 1 in 4 times. Plus players can vary in form by +/- 150 a day.
And of course some will be manipulating the system. Hopefully their MMR catches up with them sooner or later.
And, pray tell, how did you work that out?
High Diamond is above average.
Yet most of your complaints is about the way CSR is allocated?
We know TrueSkill2 works.
To reiterate your message, post-match CSR adjustments are first dictated by the match outcome (W/L) because it can only adjust positively on a win and negatively on a loss.
Then secondly, the amount it adjusts by is dictated by a formula and limited due to adjustment caps.
In Halo 5, the max CSR adjustments were +/- 15 throughout all ranks besides Onyx. And in Onyx it was +/- 10. However, a penalty adjustment for being the first quitter in a match was set at -30.
I’m not certain if these exact same adjustment caps are being used within Infinite, but it’s probably a fair guess that they are. And if not, I’m sure they’re very similar.
As for how the formula adjusts a player’s CSR in convergence to their MMR I can only reference what I recall from Halo 5 which may not exactly match the adjustment algorithm used in Infinite.
The team based formula was: YourCSR vs. OpposingTeamMMR + (YourMMR - YourTeamMMR))
For simplicity purposes I’ll further break it down with an example.
Team 1 (consists of):
Player A: CSR = 1750 | MMR = 1800
Player B: CSR = 1300 | MMR = 1250
Player C: CSR = 1250 | MMR = 1200
Player D: CSR = 1100 | MMR = 1050
Team 1 Average MMR = 1325
Team 2 (consists of):
Player E: CSR = 1450 | MMR = 1400
Player F: CSR = 1300 | MMR = 1350
Player G: CSR = 1300 | MMR = 1250
Player H: CSR = 1150 | MMR = 1100
Team 2 Average MMR = 1275
Focusing on Player A, he/she is faced with 1750 vs (1275+(1800-1325)) or 1750. 1750 vs 1750 means that whatever the match outcome is his/her CSR wouldn’t shift drastically. Probably around +/- 1 CSR.
Focusing on Player D, he/she is faced with 1100 vs (1275+(1050-1325)) or 1000. 1100 vs 1000 means that a loss would likely result in a big -15 CSR impact while a win could only earn them a +1 CSR.
The primary issue that exists in Halo 5, and I don’t know if it’s any different in Infinite, was a skill adjustment lag to the CSRs. This was because your immediate post-match performance adjustment (to your MMR) isn’t captured within the current post-match CSR adjustment.
I’d love to learn whether 343i was able to devised a method to remove the skill-lag for Post-Match CSR adjustments.
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So it’s not skill based and is just people playing constantly to rank up, like Reach?
Dumb system imo, it’s a participation trophy.
Team up with WHO, is the point. Nobody plays this game. And people that ask me to party up generally do so because they’re worse than me and want help, but I can only do so much.
No, that’s an unrealistic outlook. I for instance will never ever be in a lobby with less than 40 ping, because of my distance from Dallas. But someone IN Dallas automatically has a leg up on me. It’s a variable that can’t be overcome in gameplay, it’s luck. If they’re really bad it’s not a problem. But if it’s an “even match”, they win the roulette.
Funny you see it that way, because what I’m describing is to use the MMR system as intended and not just blindly scramble through without understanding it.
In case you didn’t know, post game stats include an average MMR value for both teams. My team’s values are consistently around 1700, and have been as high as the 1800’s.
I’m currently ranked in the top 3% in the world in Doubles, which isn’t hard to do since it’s all slayer, as ranked should be. My MMR stays above 1600 so it’s easy to rank up and losses really have no impact. Even after a particularly frustrating losing streak yesterday (my doubles partner’s game crashed twice, and some people were being cheap and using the sword when at high levels ranked players respect the GA etc), it never dipped below a 1580 average. At it’s peak we were averaged at 1775.
No it isn’t, it’s the baseline. The ranking system doesn’t really start until Onyx. Anything below that is failure.
Who is “we”? Are you accidentally admitting something here
Yes, the CSR system is manipulative. Far too often it gate keeps on purpose in order to trick you into playing more. The MMR system isn’t there to make matches fair or give you an accurate skill ranking, it’s there to cause you to play just one more match then just one more match then just one more match, like a slot machine.
Im very interested how i should achieve that “if you want to be platinum again you have to win against platinum 50%”
How should i face platinum players when im placed gold and teamed up a lot with players that cant keep up. When the system doesnt take my personal performance in consideration?
And i know exactly that my personal performance is not taken in account. I experienced that a lot. Got more kills as expected, first of the losing team, went positive but lost the match. Lost CSR points, this system doesnt work. This system works only with ranked “free for all” modes.
And please dont come again with phrases like “its a team game”, “you have to carry more” because it doesnt help to rank up.
I found my personal solution: stopped playing infinite 3 weeks ago and i dont think that im coming back as long there is no change how the ranking system works.
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The harsh reality is that you need to win more.
The team work thing is tricky. Try to think of ways you can lift your team; communication, running with certain players, etc.
And keep in mind that the Platinum players are probably better this season than last one.
Your personal performance is reflected in KPM and DPM. You can give your MMR a boost.
I won’t then.
If you want to rank up beat teams ranked above you.
You found yourself a Double’s buddy and you’re a higher rank there.
Just need two more and you’re set.
Ok, so what do other games do to balance out players who have better set ups?
Not really.
The intended system is to play well and rank up.
You are specifically using other modes to change your MMR in another. And even though I don’t think it would work that well, you are still manipulating the system to get a higher rank than you have earnt through playing.
But your conscience is clear, and that’s all that matters.
I do know. And when I used those numbers to show that team’s were being evenly matched you said that 343 were making them up.
Those numbers include a number of weightings.
a) Well done.
b) Even nicer flex.
c) I’m interested what set up and pings you get in Doubles vs Teams.
Double flex.
And an insult to 97% of the player population.
You are in truly rare form today.
You got me.
Ok?
You seem very happy with your rank in Doubles. A playlist where you are teamed up with an Onyx level player and solely playing a game mode you seem to prefer / do well in.
That part of the system is working well for you?
But it’s the system’s fault you are ranked 150 lower (like, half a Division) in a playlist where you have to play with randoms (which you obviously hate and have no interest in putting any effort into compensating for) and in game modes you really don’t like?
Sounds pretty much like something we would expect?
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Same doubles partner I’ve played with since Halo 3. One of only 2 other people I know personally who plays Infinite.
I’m sure a lot, but I don’t play ranked in any other FPS games
Do you not understand how MMR works? That’s the point of it, that’s what it’s already doing, that’s the source of the problem.
MMR and SBMM is busted, and here you are admitting it.
You can’t even see the numbers without being in the post match lobby so that’s a lie
The exact same as every other playlist, except there is only two enemies, only one teammate, and it’s 100% slayer.
Random game modes in Open are a flawed concept. I guess they’re going for an MLG concept, but it just creates problems when searching solo and trying to rank up.
Skill issue
Once again, it shows how little you understand how ranked works. There should never be an anchor put on your team to “balance the teams”. I don’t want to be the anchor, you don’t want to be the anchor, and they don’t want to be the anchor. Nobody wants to be the anchor. The game needs to STOP forcing people to be an anchor.
It’s working because my slayer MMR is very very high. You should be elated, the system works as intended. But literally just in Doubles because it’s so focused and concise.
Actually the teammate isn’t always onyx when searching solo. From time to time it’s a mid Diamond player, and very occasionally a high platinum player who probably should be onyx and just hasn’t played enough matches yet. It’s fairly varied.
The main hurdle there is actually that it’s almost always two randoms against two people partied up. If you can’t work very well with your teammate in doubles it becomes troublesome. It’s rarely a situation where you can carry or be carried to victory, you have to both contribute. One person usually goes positive and the other negative because the matches are far more even, but you have to contribute as much as you possibly can to win.
4v4 in this game is a lot more complex and random, and the variables are just a nightmare to navigate searching solo.
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Awesome to have a buddy like that.
But it’s no surprise that relationship helps to give you a higher rank in that playlist.
But you’re happy to call 343 out for not doing something you’re not even sure other companies do.
Sigh.
So, you are controlling the factors that you have control over.
How does that change any of those other factors you mentioned; ping, system set up etc. They are still just as valid in Doubles as they are in Teams.
Your personal preference for game modes doesn’t mean the ranking system is flawed.
Your rank for Oddball is just as valid as your rank in Slayer.
You are just better at the latter.
Not really any less insulting.
But they are clearly an Onyx level player?
And?
You want the game to magically predict how you would perform if you were in a well knit and co-ordinated team?
I am many things - but not a liar…
@M1STA_WU1FY I don’t know how to say it without being unpleasant, and I’m sorry about that.
You still don’t understand how this ranking system works, and I feel like you’re just angry that you didn’t reach Onyx, you seem to want an arcade ranking system that makes you move up the ranks for wins and down for defeats.
While Halo infinite’s ranking is skill-based and sorts you into boxes, if I can put it that way, until you improve and manage to get out of that box.
And I think that’s what bothers you the most, you just don’t accept your current skills, if you don’t move up the ranks it’s because you don’t yet have the ability to get out of your box. I know it must be frustrating to hear that again, train, improve, and you’ll improve.
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Because losing has less impact as long as you keep your MMR high in slayer. It’s a mirror to what happens in Open. Instead of winning 5 matches for 15 CSR and losing one for 15 CSR, it’s the reverse. You lose less and gain more so the individual matches aren’t as severe a factor.
If you start a match and the enemy has better ping, you can be content that them winning because of the bad system and poor construction of the game isn’t going to take away all your progress.
Surely this is all starting to make some sense by now.
Not at all, they’re two entirely different gametypes
I don’t care. The game has been out for almost a year, people should know the basics by now if they’re still playing.
“Onyx level” being a hard to define term. I guess the way your beliefs work, as long as their MMR is higher than 1500 and stays that way consistently, no matter what their rank is, they’re “Onyx level”.
No, I would just prefer to not be punished for searching solo. The game exclusively creates 4-stack vs randoms lobbies in ranked, maybe just because the population is so low, or maybe because it doesn’t know the difference. But either way it does this so consistently it makes winning impossible some matches. Generally because randoms who don’t even use mics or speak English are playing with a huge handicap.
So stop trying to lie
Losing has less impact as long as you keep your MMR high in objective as well. It’s the same system.
Because you can’t keep your MMR high enough in that playlist.
You function better in doubles, with a regular team mate, and being able to only player Slayer.
I’m still not sure how that differs Doubles vs Teams.
No. Your biases are making it hard.
Yes.
But your rank for Slayer is accurate for Slayer.
Your rank for Oddball is accurate for Oddball.
And your Team CSR chases your average rank in the Team playlist. It will be accurate for that playlist.
Insulting and clearly lacking in empathy.
I would have thought of all the people in this forum you would find it easy to define “Onyx”.
Virtually every post in the last couple of months has been complaining that you aren’t, and should be, ranked Onyx in teams. So you know where you think you should be.
You complain that you regularly beat Onyx players / teams - so you clearly know when your opponents are Onyx.
You claim you have an Onyx MMR - so you have that bit down pat (although we still haven’t established how you know that).
You claim to know the actual ability of Players MMR 1500+, so there you go. You have a performance reference.
You been openly flexing about being Onyx in Doubles - and even more openly insulting towards anyone who isn’t Onyx - so you are clearly an expert in what it is to be Onyx.
For the record - I am happy to call it as anyone who is Onyx CSR.
You are not being punished. You choose to play solo, as do many players. So you have to acknowledge that your rank is for being a solo player in a team game.
Gas lighting?
I made a claim - you called me a liar - I quoted you (post 285 in this thread) - and instead of explaining and/or apologising you double down on calling me a liar.
Kind of -yoink- move.
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion you are just trolling.
There is always room to improve in regards to the ranking system - but your belligerence in refusing to acknowledge basic facts like the advantages of ELO systems, the difference between KPM and KD, skill curves, and your inconsistency in favouring MMR or CSR, etc… it’s like you aren’t even trying any more.
I think I liked it better when you blocked me 
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Is SBMM designed to decide when you lose? The consensus here is yes.
You will get sandbagged with a teammate or 2 who are several divisions below your skill level after you win a few games. If you play perfect halo the entire game, you might continue a win streak and if you do, that’s when you get the biggest boost to your rank.
Curious what the longest win streak everyone’s had in infinite so far. I think mine is 5 or 6. every previous halo title I could get 10 wins in a row or more. Even when solo playing.
lastly, the kpm kd and expected kills don’t actually matter that much. All that really matters is winning your games. try to be the highest scoring player on your team when you win, to see a larger rank up.
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But only “yes” as in the natural consequence of accurate rankings and well matched games is an approximately 50:50 win rate.
If you mean does the algorithm specifically decide that you have to win or lose - then “no”. That’s crazy talk.
Any “sandbagging” is random.
Winning 10 in a row isn’t necessarily healthy for the game. If people are winning an excessive amount of games the natural correlation is that other’s are losing.
Pretty much.
The key to ranking up is winning. Particularly any games where the opposition are ranked higher than you.
There is a weighting for KPM. The “expected” kills gives you a baseline of your current KPM at that level. So you should be matching or exceeding that if you want to be ranking up.
Yeah well… the consensus seems to be founded on anecdotal experience. Aka, the unshakeable barometer for “proof”.
Lies. Clearly the key to ranking up is throwing teammates under the bus at every turn, repeatedly mouthbreathing how bad they are through the mic hole during a game at the first sign of trouble and absolving oneself of all responsibility for any games ending up as a loss.
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Don’t you see the dissonance in what you say?!
If I understood correctly, because you make less victory in a row, the SBMM is failing?!
You have to understand that it is the opposite.
If you win it is because you are potentially better than your opponents, the game will make you face better players than your previous opponents, so a level also or slightly higher than yours, to win you will have to surpass yourself.
If you lose, you will again face equal or weaker opponents, you win against them, you will face equal or better players. The logical result will be about 50:50 wins/losses.
The current implementation of the ranking system in halo infinite works only for stacked teams or for “free for all” modes (but there is no ranked FFA playlist available.
A solo player remains “locked” by the current implementation. And thats a fact that most of the people are just ignoring.
I had much longer losing than winning streaks in ranked infinite.
I dont think that SBMM is the problem. Its more how the matchmaking team build system was implemented.
When the matchmaking system has the goal to guarantuee a 50% win change, its likely that if you look at the last 20 ranked matches, you will notice a win rate between 40-60%.
Now it depends how many CSR you win or lose after a match. The amount is not fixed. There is again a formula that would work, if i played with a stacked team, but 99% of my ranked matches i was a solo player.