Anybody suffering through this nonsense in Open ranked should try Doubles, it’s much better optimized
You keep saying the same things over and over again despite massively overwhelming evidence that you are wrong about it.
The fact that forced 50% win/loss matchmaking based on purposely matching uneven teams together was a thing as early as the first month of the game’s release, when the population was MORE than healthy enough to sustain even teams, is the only proof anyone needs to shoot down your population theory.
The fact that both the highest tier players, and the lowest, have no lower or higher than a 40-60% w/l, where you’ll be hard pressed to find an outlier that has played more than 10 matches is all the proof anyone needs that this is the system’s target. You can go through profile after profile on Halo tracker and see the same thing. Lucid released a video recently showing him getting matched against golds, silvers, and even UNRANKED players. Half the time the game won’t put him into a serious match, because it’s his turn to win a game. Frigging LUCID man. There is absolutely NO reason he should ever match against someone below Onyx. Population be -Yoink!-.
It’s not just everyone on this forum that disagrees with you (though some are trying to claim this awful MM system is somehow ‘fair and balanced’), pros and social media influencers are savvy that it’s happening too.
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What “overwhelming” evidence.
I’m barely whelmed by anecdotal pleas for the good ol’ days. Thrashing noobs until they “git gud” or “git out”.
Fact?
It’s not a forced 50%. Teams are matched as evenly as the population allows.
Proof of what?
I’m not 100% sure what you are arguing here?
You admit the population is bad - but that’s still the MM’s fault?
There is no such thing as “his turn” to win a game. That’s ludicrous.
And ideally no. It’s not a great situation.
But if there are no Onyx players to match against the only options is to time them out.
343 were talking about being stricter - and it may be a case of really high ranking players just missing out.
The system is trying to be as fair and as balanced as it can in the circumstance.
Is it fun?
Not a lot. Especially lately.
Most of the time it sucks. A lot. The good players are bored. The bad players are frustrated. And the middle of the road players are left twiddling their thumbs. And God help you if your team doesn’t gel in an objective game - you are going to get pantsed.
Is it better than random MM. Hell yes.
So, I’m not sure what you are actually pitching here? The only difference between what we have now and random based match making is that there is at least a good player or two on the other team to keep you honest.
Just for giggles - describe the team LUCID would be playing with and against in random based matchmaking. By his lofty standards, no more than a bunch of traffic cones.
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I mean I’d like to have a 25 KDA so yeah, let me have that. It’s better than basically knowing I’m being given a ‘gimme’ match and then will likely get thrown in a match I’m destined to lose.
It makes it feel pointless to even try playing the game. SBMM is horrible.
It’s low population due to SBMM though. It drives people away because they feel no consistency in their performance. At least with regular MM you know there’s no shady algorithm shinanigans going on and it’s just based on the players that it matched you with the quickest.
Exactly. I don’t know what focus groups the devs listen to about player retention, but nobody that I’ve ever talked to thinks SBMM in social is a good idea, and that it’s poorly optimized in ranked.
It runs off competent players and the average bot players wouldn’t even notice a change so why not fix it?
evidently the player retention is just the bots that wouldn’t know the difference if that’s the case
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As soon that you take a look at halo tracker on player that plays solo ranked, you will notice a trend of max 55% win. It happens more often, that you get a losing streak 65%-70%.
Its unbelievable frustrating going positive, being first on the losing team and still loos8ng a bunch of CSR. It doesnt help, that you get some CSR when you win a match. At the end of the week, when you are still on the same rank, then why should i still keep playing? So many time i hear, kpm is the key. How should this help, when desync, high ping, lag makes it really difficult to win 1vs1?
In Halo 5 i was a member of a big spartan company. Could play a lot ranked with a ranked team. Why was the feature of Spartan Company removed? Nobody knows.
SBMM is not the problem. The match making system and the decision that a team result is more weighted than your personal performance, was the reason why i stopped again playing infinite.
The first time i stopped in january came back in may. I stopped playing infinite 2 weeks ago.
I will remain on the forum and read update release notes. If the netcode will be improved or we get PVE modes, i will give infinite a new chance.
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After the 4000th match who cares? I don’t… I just play the best I can, and if my flanks are abandoned by obsolete teamates I take a deep breath and either quit with a smile, or just change and say don’t rely on teamates and try to go even or better KD…
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Just imagine the KDA of the other guy.
Nope.
Content, desync, and no XP rank would be the main reasons.
I would argue that the population would be even lower without SBMM.
There are no shady algorithm shenanigans.
First up. Don’t. Halo Tracker uses CSR’s to calculate the stat. And it has none of the weightings (eg. Squads).
It’s a fun stat - but not that accurate.
But 45-55% games sound pretty good anyway.
An important question.
Once you hit your skill ceilling - this is reality.
Which is why we need an XP rank to grind.
Those things are not the fault off the ranking system.
Besides, your opponents are dealing with then too.
Halo 5 was the same.
Earlier Halos (original TS) didn’t use personal performance at all.
But the win is still the key factor. And that’s important. It’s a team game. Your ranking is your skill at being part of a 4v4 team. S not strictly your personal skill rank - for that you will have to wait for ranked FFA (or 1 v 1)
There are no shady algorithm shenanigans.
right, and there’s no war in Ba Sing Se either. You literally said earlier that the system is designed to keep your W/L ratio roughly 50/50. How does it do that without messing and specifically selecting your opponents to be better/worse than you statistically? That’s called shenanigans.
Halo did perfectly fine without the SBMM crap. It wouldn’t have gotten such a huge community if it didn’t.
The “system” uses your rank to match the teams.
The natural outcome of that, if the ranks are correct, is a 50:50 win rate.
The match maker doesn’t care, or know, what your last result was.
Thinking that the system specifically chosen team mates to manipulate the specific result is shenanigans.
It’s even more than that.
It’s weirdly ego centric. Imagine believing you are so important the MM spends time and effort to find 7 other players carefully curated to guarantee your specific result.
Isn’t it easier to just find 8 players. Divide then into two equal teams, and let it evolve naturally?
With the added bonus if that both teams feel they had a chance of winning then all the players are more likely to keep playing. Regardless of pings or results.
We’ve had it for 15+years now. It’s not going away.
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Doesn’t mean I’m going to stop complaining about it til it is.
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They don’t listen to people who make sense, they just look at raw numbers and hardheadedly commit to bad design choices.
It’s why we have a shop and no couch co-op
Literally just lost an entire night’s worth of progress because a cheater made me go too negative and lose, this game is broken
Then I go 27 and 16 with the most hill time and it goes back up to where I started tonight, which is half what I lost the previous match against a CHEATER this is the worst ranking system I’ve ever seen in a video game.
The next round my ping is over 100 the entire time and I am literally shooting bb’s at people while they shoot me through walls. I get absolutely demolished and lose more CSR than I’ve gained all weekend in Open. Who designed this game to be so bad on purpose?
Next game a teammate ragequits (not DC’d, he just left because he was mad), and of course we lose and lose more CSR.
I want to play ranked and this is the only playlist with people in it right now, this is toxic.
Win the next one with the most kills and least deaths in the game, +4 CSR. You can’t lie to me and say this game doesn’t rank lock you. The hill I have to climb to rank up in Open is like trying to climb up a glass wall barehanded
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Halo Tracker gives you a fast overview of W/L ranked matches. So this stats are accurate. Last season i was platinum 5 on my way to Diamond. This season i was locked between Gold 4-5. So from one season to another my skill went down a complete rank? No, most of the time im positive and the best in my team who lost.
I told it so many times. SBMM is not the problem, its the match making algorithm that gridlocks player.
I dont buy this BS of its a team game. Because i get punished the same way as my team mate who had a K/D of 0.4 while i went positive and played the objective.
One thing is the team outcome another is the personal performance.
If the matchmaking would consider my performance and put me together with player that were first or second on the losing teams, what do you think, how fast would i climb up?
The problem comes with thinking of it as “progress”.
You haven’t changed in skill. Your CSR fluctuated from around 1405, up to 1422, and then back to 1405.
That’s not a significant change.
It’s all about the scale of the CSR. In the good old days of 1 to 50 you would have progressed from rank 41, up to rank 41, and then back down to rank 41.
Nothing is broken except your expectation.
You know personal performance has nothing to do with the CSR change in that game. So stop wasting emotional energy on it.
Horrible. But not the ranking systems fault.
You would have lost minimal CSR on the quit. But the system has to penalise teams for quits. It’s sad. But it has to.
Again. CSR change has nothing to do with personal performance in that game. Let it go.
Yep.
Just don’t put a lot of credence in their % to win. It’s a fun stat - but not that accurate.
Different population. So different spread of ranks. And if more people left from the left hand side of the curve (which is likely) it drags everyone to the left.
You can’t really compare season to season.
No. What stops you from ranking up, from a point, is your skill ceiling.
You aren’t punished for personal performance in the CSR of that game.
Keep playing the objective. Win (against better teams) and rank up.
Team outcome is everything.
You wouldn’t - because you would be matched against harder opponents and if you haven’t improved in skill you aren’t going to win more than 50%.
If you are talking about just getting the good players - then your team will outrank theirs and yes, you will win. But it will be a meaningless win in terms of rank because you didn’t beat a team better than you.
Imagine thinking CSR isn’t impacted by personal performance when it is. Couldn’t be me
Can’t have it both ways champ. This kind of flip flopping nonsense is why nobody listens to you. It’s why I had you blocked so I didn’t have to wade through it. Evidently you can bypass a block though, interesting
Im not punished with CSR? But my rank is bound to CSR. So your logic is not valid.
Its all about teams? Then why is there not a team rank? The team outcome is reflected in CSR +/- which results in the personal rank.
If its all about teams, why is there no after match lobby where you can match up? Why where spartan companies removed?
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Yay. We’re friends again. 
I try to be as concise and as consistent as I can.
Your CSR change at the end of the game doesn’t look at your personal performance in the game. It goes on the W/L, the skill gap to your opponents, and the pull of your MMR (your CSR is chasing your MMR).
The last two factors are different for each player - hence the different CSR changes for your team mates.
Your personal performance (KPM and DPM) can move your MMR. And therefore influence your CSR in the next game.
And I was very careful to mention to reference the CSR change at the end of the game. To try and help people who are wasting emotional energy getting upset about their performance vs everyone else’s CSR changes in THAT game.
Nice misquoting… has nothing to do with CSR change IN THAT GAME.
And I’m not sure how it’s a flip flop anyway. Both statements can easily hold true.
And you probably haven’t changed in skill. Harsh reality. Skill ceilings and all that. Doing well in a couple of games doesn’t mean you deserve to rank up. You need to convince the system that you can go 50:50 against those higher ranks.
Form fluctuates all the time. One of the functions of the CSR is to smooth out that journey. It’s annoying when it doesn’t surge up as fast as you want it to - but it’s also nice that it doesn’t drop precipitously when you are having a bad run.
And your MMR tends to stabilise as the curve narrows. It doesn’t react to unexpected results as it does post placement. Which is a good thing. You need to show a sustained performance to rank up. Like you should.
You all lose CSR in the loss. As per my reply to M1STA above.
Your personal performance can minimise (and in some cases, even reverse) the changes to your MMR.
And that will be reflected in your MMR and CSR changes over time.
It would be awesome if it did that.
But the data needed to hold MMR for each team would be astronomical.
But if you look at elite sports like tennis or rowing - your rank is on that particular combination of players.
Yep. The system is just doing it’s best to allocate you a personal rank from the “average” of your team performances.
I miss Spartan Companies. They were awesome.
You don’t even understand what that sentence entails. You can’t, or you wouldn’t keep saying it.