So SBMM is designed to decide when you lose…?

Games Halo Infinite
427

So they don’t have to manipulate the win loss because they already do? Lol you just keep walking right into proving yourself wrong.

No, it doesn’t.

I don’t know why you can’t understand that there is no adjusting to having a complete thrower on your team specifically selected to make you lose.

You keep saying this like you understand what it means or how to do it.

You just got through saying the matchmaker sets you up to lose 50% of the time. Which is it?

Who is “we”? You’re the only person on the planet that speaks positively about it.

The game should match you based on your rank, not your invisible rank you can’t even see changing or how to change it. It’s all toxic manipulative corporate nonsense that directly contributed to the game dying.

1 Like
428

One more time.

Matching even teams naturally creates a 50:50 win rate.

The algorithm does not take a player and decide they must win or lose the next game.

There is no fixing of the game apart from matching the teams.

You aren’t being individually picked on. You are not given team mates to make you lose. You aren’t being desynced out of the game if you are doing well.

Get over it.

Well, apparently everyone except you.

It’s a team game. Maybe they let you down. Maybe you didn’t carry hard enough.

If you don’t like team dynamics, good and bad, then may I suggest FFA is more your cup of tea.

What it means is that you are being put into teams. Some good. Some bad.

But they all rely on you to do your part.

And that’s all you can do.

The ranking system infers your contribution from your team’s ability to win and supplements that with your KPM and DPM vs that rank.

If you improve in skill then you will be contributing more to the team and you will more and lose less. Overall you will do better against better teams. And you will rank up.

But it’s a process that takes time. It evolves over a number of games. It’s not about the occasional win (or loss).

You are getting too hung up over the cherry picked loss where you feel someone else didn’t pull their weight.

But that’s all relative.

In your last 20 games you’ve only had a positive KD in 9 of them.

Maybe you aren’t as good a team mate as you think you are?

The match maker sets you to even teams.

The natural result is a 50:50 win rate.

The end point is the same. I’m just saying that your method where 343 picks team mates and adds desync to make you lose is -Yoink!- insanity.

What you should be asking for is your MMR to be made visible then.

After all that is the most accurate representation of your actual rank.

And personally I’d love to see it. Graphed over time. For each game mode and play list.

I’m just not sure the general population is up for it.

1 Like
429

Last time I played I got a 0% win rate. :upside_down_face: :upside_down_face:

1 Like
430

And I’m sure you would have won if 343 hadn’t of added a touch of desync at critical moments to stop you from getting kills.

:slight_smile:

431

Didn’t you know? It randomly spins a digital merry go round in the background to transform a special snowflake winner into a loser. The circle is split up into categories consisting of handpicked bad teammates, bad servers, vastly superior opponents and greater difficulty pressing buttons via large increases to humidity at the player location.

432

Thats the reason why i always have a hairdryer next to me.

1 Like
433

In halo 5 i was member of big spartan company. We always played as team. Most of the spartan company tried infinite and left. Only a few went back to halo 5, most of them moved on to other shooters.

Missing after match lobbies like we had in halo 3, if i remember it right, there you had the option to team up with the team mates.
Trying to find some player on the recruitment homepage. Not much hope to find people there.

434

“We have this caveman attitude.”

Darwi, I’ve read dozens of your posts today. If you want to have more positive feedback, include fewer insults in your posts. Between asserting that people who disagree with you are conspiracy theorists, tin-foil hat wearing nut jobs, and cavemen, you don’t leave yourself ground to be sympathized with, and it paints people’s perceptions of you negatively. You could be speaking the gospel truth and people are going to interpret it as negatively as they possibly can because you insult people so frequently.

1 Like
435

Yep. Fair call.

I’ve probably taken the bait from one poster in particular and lowered my flag in terms of posting quality / etiquette.

Apologies.

1 Like
436

Had a lot of conversation (forum posts) with @Darwi and read a lot of his posts. Never saw a post where he was insulting people. Maybe some harsh responses, yes, but in my opinion the addressed person deserved it, after i read also their posts and responses to darwi.

3 Likes
437

Thanks for the supportive post!

I certainly try not to specifically insult people.

But @CanineHippo6923 has a point. In this particular to and fro I’ve definitely strayed into hostile territory. And while I could probably justify any particular response - the danger is that the overall message is lost.

The best responses are informative. With a touch of biting sarcasm :slight_smile:

1 Like
438

Recruitment page here is terrible bro. I have 2 suggestions for you that I believe will work, and its how I see most people find team mates or just make friends to play with.

We do miss the team up option, but you can immediately look at the post game report and select team mates you felt played great with you and send game invites. Get them into your lobby, and either party chat or lobby chat. Add friends.

Second, on your xbox select halo infinite using the option button (i think its that button. The small button to the right of the xbox home button thats usually referred to as start or pause on other controllers)
Go to the official homepage of the game, and in this area i think it says multiplayer or something. Theres a tab that has “looking for” posts created very often. Not old posts from days ago, but instead from active players on the game just as you are. Within minutes you can have a team. Play well together, add them, increase your roster.

I loved 5, was also in a spartan company etc. I actually went back to 5 after i uninstalled this game (it frustrates me so much at times…ended up reinstall it cause i love halo too much tho). My time back on 5 was cut short tho, and now I’m back on infinite. I dont play everyday tho. Havent played in a few days. Im going to do the same suggestions i told you because my friends roster is basically getting smaller and smaller. More people going to apex, more people calling this game a joke after seeing that video they just released where they detail the near future of this game.

1 Like
439

1 day later and 8 matches later we have this situation: 7 wins 18 lost its a win rate of 28%
Still acceptable? Do you think that’s ok? I still managed to get up from gold 4 to gold 5 even with the 18 matches lost.
Now let as bet. The outcome of the next 5 ranked matches. I say, at max 2 win at least 3 lost. The next 10 matches? 3 wins 7 lost.
The starting baseline: Halo Tracker - 4th September - 8 matches played. So it starts with the ninth match of the 4th September.
If the match making system tries to keep a baseline of 50% win rate, it should match me up with a team that has a higher chance to win. So my win rate should raise. My win rate should even raise to 70% if the system does compensate the negative win rate curve.
But because i was still able to raise my CSR despite the 18 matches lost, im guessing that my win rate will stay below 50%.
I will come back in 6 or 8 matches with the result.

1 Like
440

The matchmaker (TrueMatch) doesn’t try to keep any particular win rate.

It’s goals are very simple.

  1. Analyze and predict the available population across the skill spectrum per the region and time of day.

  2. Determine acceptable skill gap and connection parameters according to the population per the region and time of day. It’ll gauge what’s acceptable per a reasonable search time.

  3. Pull actively searching players into a created lobby per the acceptable parameters.

  4. Then pass that lobby of players over to the Team Picker system which arranges the players into teams.

The aim of the Team Picker system is to create the most balanced teams via skill as possible. Maybe that results in both teams having 50:50 odds (the ideal scenario) or maybe the best it can do is 90:10 odds or something worse. It’s extremely dependent on the population health at the moment of the search.

Both the Matchmaker (TrueMatch) and Team Picker systems rely on the Skill Assessor system (TrueSkill2) which does nothing more than analyze player skill per match results and predict future results per its understandings of player skill.

The more matches that can be formed with odds at 50:50, or very close to it, the greater the chances are that players will naturally possess win rates that hover around 50%. This is obviously more common within the center of the skill-based population bell curve.

If players are managing to achieve life-time career win rates significantly higher or lower than 50% it could mean several things or a combination of these things:

  1. The skill assessor isn’t very accurate; meaning, the system doesn’t have a good predictive understanding of player skill. But, TrueSkill2 is known to possess a predictive accuracy of ~70% which was, and may still be, the industry leader.
  2. The population health is very poor; particularly, within the player’s skill range, which is more common to occur at the outer edges of the population bell curve. This is the most likely reason.
  3. The matchmaker’s parameter settings are way too loose; though, with TrueMatch in place this issue boils back down to the population health.
  4. There’s something wrong with the Team Picker system. For whatever reason it’s failing to balance teams as evenly as possible. I’d hope 343i would be investigating this possibility if they were noticing lots of matches ending with lopsided results.
  5. The player only plays within a stacked team and the population isn’t healthy enough to provide nearly enough competitive competition, so they get a lot of lopsided matches due to the system’s default policy which gives them an unbalanced match instead of making them search indefinitely. Not much can be done about this other than forcing groups of talented players to potentially wait an indefinite amount of time during a search. This could theoretically work in reverse too. For instance, a group of low-level bronze players that regularly play together may lose a significantly higher percentage of their matches because the matchmaker struggles to find them competitively balanced matches.
  6. The player likes searching objective matches, but is unwilling to focus on the objective. Choosing to focus solely on lone wolf style slaying. This can lead to a higher loss rate.
  7. Extremely lucky or unlucky over their entire playing career. Not statistically likely, but I guess it’s potentially possible.
2 Likes
441

Interesting how the game doesn’t do that but you keep acting like it does.

I like team games where the algorithm isn’t setting you up to lose with an anchor teammate.

FFA is toxic and it’s annoying that you keep bringing it up. Nobody sane likes FFA.

No, it has been proven time and again that it doesn’t.

Yes, he probably would have done better if the game worked.

There are numerous examples from numerous people showing how desync ruins specific fights in “evenly matched games” and allows objectively worse players to win. Packet loss happens at suspiciously critical times. People are still allowed to cheat.

The sky is the limit and this game is dying because of it. There’s no point in arguing about any of this anymore, the jig is up. It’s over. Nobody is holding out any support for it anymore.

Now to be fair, most of his posts are insulting someone in some way. He’ll claim that people who try to win are too sweaty, or that they’re bad teammates for not carrying an anchor well enough, or that they’re just crazy for being mad the game stacks the odds against them etc. Sometimes he openly insults individuals, but often it’s targeted at groups of people.

It could just be a case of playful ribbing but it consistently comes off as insulting. Especially since in doing so it’s directly mocking gameplay advice from everyone else.

442

This system sucks. 343 insists on defending his ideas, he will only get the desert in the servers. The game is already dead. But I don’t take it out on them, I wonder why the xbox division doesn’t entrust the brand to someone else.

1 Like
443

now I am playing so badly to see if I can finally win some matches. My win rate in this games sucks :frowning:

444

I hope so. Because I’m not travelling that much better :slight_smile:

Lost 8 out of my last 10!

Didn’t really notice it because most of the games felt pretty competitive. And I only lost about 15 CSR all up. Which is pretty meh.

And I have had a couple of bad losing streaks over the last few days. I do agree that six in a row is hard to not take personally. :frowning:

Ouch and five more in a row the day before!

But it happens.

Sometimes it’s just bad luck. Other’s there is a reason;

I remember the five in a row. I should have stopped. I had been in work until 0230 the day before. It was a busy day juggling cars and kids. I was pretty tired. But I do like to finish any particular session on a win…

As for my form over the last couple of days that’s probably because of my inner stats nerd. My spreadsheet shows me that this Season I’m doing very well on my deaths per minute - I’m running at 1.5 kills under expected. So defensively I am doing very well.

But offensively - I’m not meeting kills per minute. I’m over a kill under on average per game.

So I’m currently trying to change up my tactics. And it’s not going well.

Rambled on a bit there. But yes. It’s still acceptable.

Your form can fluctuate from day to day and week to week. A couple of bad days here and there.

Plus, with the low population, some people may be being caught in the cross fire a little, and being given harder games than the system would give them otherwise.

And this suggests that scenario.

You would seem to be getting reward for wins and not penalised for losses. Your MMR is still healthy despite your CSR.

Keep going!

A dangerous bet to take

if you are going in angry and frustrated.

Self fulfilling prophecy alert!

As eLantern has so eloquently put in his post below - the match maker isn’t trying to keep a baseline of 50%. It doesn’t know what your recent game history is. It just tries to set up the next match to be as even as it can.

Not the way you should think about it.

There isn’t any payback built into the system. It just keeps doing what it can to create even matches and it will all balance out with time.

Your CSR is going up because either;

  1. Your MMR is still way above your CSR and it’s pulling it up hard.

  2. Most of your losses are against higher ranked teams and the system is kind of ignoring the result (ie. the match maker is struggling to find you even matches).

There is a danger in just using small batches of games to assess your ranking journey.

It’s all bigger picture stuff.

Personally I’m going hard to identify my weaknesses. Only 50 or so games in but I clearly do better in Strong Holds (70% win rate) than Oddball (29%). And I need to work on my movement around Aquarius (20%).

2 Likes
445

Nearly 50 games in and the average difference between the team MMRs is 3.16

That suggests that the match maker is doing everything it can to even out the teams.

The blow outs seem to be a product of the objective games and the wider range of ranks (low population). If your team doesn’t gel, for whatever reason, it all falls apart hard. You don’t notice it as much in Slayer (or even Oddball). But definitely in CTF.

The algorithm doesn’t do that. So you can like it a little bit more.

The best proof we have is the average team MMRs. I’ve got nearly 50 in the spreadsheet and they are pretty close.

I know you don’t like that stat - but you’ll need more to counter it than HaloTracker’s % win. That stat is flawed on so many levels.

And in principle, if you are claiming that the CSR’s aren’t accurate in the first place, you can’t use a stat derived from the average CSR’s as absolute proof that the game is being manipulated.

Ok, this is a different argument altogether.

If you are proposing that people are introducing lag and desync into the game to manipulate the win - that’s not the fault of the ranking system or the match maker. You need to take that up in a anti-cheat thread.

But I would still think it’s just an observational bias. Desync happens randomly but people only really notice it at clutch times.

No. Pretty much just in the threads towards you. And I apologise.

1 Like
446

So the algorithm that is designed to cause a 50% win/loss doesn’t have anything to do with people losing?

I guess you’re saying the algorithm doesn’t do it’s job then?