So called "Solution to Warzone boss kill stealing"

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Didn’t think I would have to make a thread specifically against the thread, but the ridiculous amount of traction it has gotten despite very clear arguments against it is something mindboggiling, which I can only attribute to the fact that I posted it to late into the thread to actually be of any importance, or at least ground people back to reality on what would happen in the actual practice of it.
Here’s the original post of the idea:

> 2533274803562826;1:
> How about if the bosses had a separate health pool per team let’s say 1000 HP each completely independent to each other.
>
> Every time your a red team member shot the boss it would subract health from the red team pool only.
>
> So the first team to do 1000 total damage would get the kill that way no kill stealing can occure.

Here’s the posts in which I posted the reasons against it.

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> > 2533274839434069;92:
> > For those who say the current system is good as it is, you’re wrong. Unless you have the entire team in party chat coordinating across the entire map, it’s physically impossible to prevent some random guy with a pistol popping up at the last second and stealing the kill. You could have your entire team hammering the boss with power weapons and scorpions while fending off the enemy team, and one guy with a DMR camping way back can get the kill instead. That’s not a system that rewards effort or teamwork, it just rewards camping until the boss is at low health. It’s a bad system that needs refining, and no amount of childish “git gud” comments is going to change that.
>
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> In no situation in life would ONE objective have TWO separate pool/means of obtaining the same result when TWO teams are competing against each other under the same roof. Why would ONE enemy have TWO separate pools of life? Kill stealing is a strategy for the losing team. It allows them to have a chance to come back. If you did two separate pools of life on one boss it would allow the winning team to have NO WORRIES at all because they would just gang up on that boss and get the kill. The kill stealing is actually what allows the losing side to have a chance to come back.
>
> IRL you wouldn’t have one guy have 2 lives and neither should you have it in the game. If someone sneaks in a kill then good for them. Better luck to you next time. You don’t get to have a separate pool for your results on an enemy just because you don’t like the fact that someone can sneak in a kill.

you forgot to tell him something lorewalker.
Git Gud.

lol, but seriously, as I said in my previous comment here

> 2533274922548956;63:
> Honestly, I don’t know why everyone is saying that this is a good idea.
>
> Making the boss have 2 sets of health would simply lessen the chances of the losing team from EVER making a possible comeback since quite a few of the gamechanging bosses are spawned around some capture point in which one team will have control of, thus making them quite likely to get the kill even with the system we have in place currently.
>
> For the boss to have 2 health bars for each team would simply make it impossible for the team that doesn’t have the base and/or as much reqs as the other team who is also likely to be controlling that base, especially if they are in the lead. If we couldn’t get a good shot in and take the points, the warzone maps would be decided from who gets the base from the gecko.
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> Let’s not forget that even with the system we have in place now, that certain teams win on certain maps more often then the other. Blue in Stormbreaker, Red in Raid on Apex. Let’s not further deepen that.

The ability to steal kills is, despite whether you don’t not like it, a mechanic that makes the game fair and gives the opposing team a chance to take the boss instead and actually get in the lead.
Seriously, if the bosses had separate health bars for each team, the team with the closest proximity and/or best weapons, would be the ones to get the kill. And if you played many matches of warzone, you would agree that those who take the middle base always get an advantage, which without the bosses having one bar of health, would likely win 98% of the time. The other 2% would be composed of the odds times in which the losing team is able to gain control of the bases through some sheer luck, or sheer stupidity by the opposite team, allowing them to get the core.

_TLDR (cause you a lazy (insert word here):_Idea bad because it makes it impossible for losing team to win, as they don’t have the REQs and map control that the winning team does. Won’t go well with already certain teams winning at certain maps like Blue in Strombreaker and Red in Raid on Apex.

And I’m not the only one saying this is a bad idea, check how many posts in his thread actually disagree. See how many actually provide some reason for their disagreement compared to the agreeing side.

EDIT: Removed slightly mind numbing rant of mine.
Doesn’t mean that I don’t still think that a group of people boosted the thread’s popularity and overall consensus on it.

2

As the OP from said thread I would like to say I actual agree with all the counter arguments that have been posted and one in particular really stood out to me about how the damage visualisation would cause this to be near impossible to implement.

Problem is once a thread gets rolling it doesn’t matter what responses are posted, people wont read past the first or second page meaning that most people are just blindly posting at this point on it and ignoring both the problems with this idea and the solutions. the thread is now just a mess.

I would also like to add that I don’t actually mind the current Warzone setup myself and have brought it up multiple times in the thread only for it to be washed away. sure I get annoyed every now and again but I only made the post because I saw so many people complaining about this one issue that I thought why not think of something that could work.

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> 2533274803562826;2:
> As the OP from said thread I would like to say I actual agree with all the counter arguments that have been posted and one in particular really stood out to me about how the damage visualisation would cause this to be near impossible to implement.
>
> Problem is once a thread gets rolling it doesn’t matter what responses are posted, people wont read past the first or second page meaning that most people are just blindly posting at this point on it and ignoring both the problems with this idea and the solutions. the thread is now just a mess.
>
> I would also like to add that I don’t actually mind the current Warzone setup myself and have brought it up multiple times in the thread only for it to be washed away. sure I get annoyed every now and again but I only made the post because I saw so many people complaining about this one issue that I thought why not think of something that could work.

Nice to know you are open to it, but other’s unfortunately aren’t all that much. Apparently this is a 2 month old topic that got revived. Unfortunately, a lot of people want it to happen despite the drastic changes it would bring.

4

I’m amazed people get so wound up over this.
If you’re winning and winning well, you will win, even if the other team “steal” one or 2 bosses, if you’re winning by kills but let the other team kill all the bosses then you are not playing Warzone as it should.
You can “steal” boss kills, so can the enemy, don’t give them the option for this.
I love March on storm break, 2 side just shoot at warden, I just run around and rek what I can of the enemy team.
If they get the kill and win the game, meh.

5

I haven’t been on waypoint much recently and missed that thread. So… people actually think that’s a good idea? I’ve seen some suggestions on how to change it that wouldn’t be bad (although I do think what we have now is likely best.) But two pools of health? In what universe does that even come close to making sense?

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Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.

Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.

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> 2535458955070436;6:
> Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.
>
> Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.

This is probably the best solutions I’ve seen thus far.
I still think OP is right that separate health pools is a pretty poor idea.

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> 2535458955070436;6:
> Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.
>
> Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.

Yea, this one seems like something realistically they can do, although I think they still should have had some sort of warzone beta to get all these kinks worked out right away.

9

I have a better idea. Give teams points per 25% of the bosses health taken out. For example, Blue takes out the first 24% of the Wardens’ health and the a Red gets a lucky shot to get the last damage needed in. Red is rewarded 25% of what you normally get from the Warden. So with this system steals are still possible but your team can recover from a steal.

10

I said it was a good idea, and I hope that doesn’t make you look down on me for it, I really do think it’s a good idea, but it’s to late for them to do anything about it now. I know that. Please understand that I am not a bot or the Op using multiple accounts, I am a human with a distinct way of thinking, and I thought it was a good idea. (Drops key board walks away, realizes it’s broken, Well crap…) lol

11

Agreed. As annoying as it is to have Warden Eternal whisked away from you, it’s kind of an essential element to warzone. Without it this game type would be virtually impossible to win in without a full team coordinating with mics and using the best reqs.

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> 2535458955070436;6:
> Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.
>
> Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.

Though I think this would be the best solution, you being an -Yoink- really doesn’t help anything.

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> 2533274817589044;12:
> > 2535458955070436;6:
> > Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.
> >
> > Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.
>
>
> Though I think this would be the best solution, you being an -Yoink- really doesn’t help anything.

It’s ok, his semi-decent idea which is actually tolerable compared to the initial idea makes up for his arrogant comment.

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> 2533274922548956;13:
> > 2533274817589044;12:
> > > 2535458955070436;6:
> > > Not a single like OP, well done. Go peddle your snake oil somewhere else. As someone with an 80% win rate in Warzone who ACTUALLY plays on a coordinated team, I can say that the boss kill system is based more on luck than skill.
> > >
> > > Remove the health bar. Its that simple. Both teams will shoot the boss until it’s dead instead of just camping it at the last second.
> >
> >
> > Though I think this would be the best solution, you being an -Yoink- really doesn’t help anything.
>
>
> It’s ok, his semi-decent idea which is actually tolerable compared to the initial idea makes up for his arrogant comment.

I’m just saying, so many people don’t want the boss system to change, even though it’s frustrating and nobody likes it. There was a cool thread about fix ideas, and OP creates an anti-thread with the typical “get good” stuff. I just want the mechanic to change :c

15

IMO, the best solution I’ve heard was to make the bar invisible, so you are forced to just keep shooting the boss and can’t just fire 1 sniper round when it has a pixel of health left.

Two bars is a bad idea for the exact reasons you give; once one team gets the lead in damage it would be impossible to catch up especially on Warden. Also, the damaged animations would probably need to be removed which is something I think would make the game worse. However, if there was no health bar then you can still tell that a boss is “near death” based on animations, which allows the “boss steal” tactic to still be viable without it being just an easy single sniper bullet. When you see Warden is flashing and in that last animation you finally pop out and open fire.

I also think that point values should be adjusted. 25pts for bosses are fine, but legendary should be 100pts and there should be 5 instead of 3. More chance for either team to get those points.

Hunters on Stormbreak and ARC need to be replaced with something else, I’ve never seen anyone really go after these guys because they are too hard to kill. Or maybe move them somewhere where you are FORCED to kill them like Spire on Apex or below Monument on Noctus.

16

there are two (2) kinds of people:

  1. people who realize that the killshot is well…the killshot(keyword: killshot) & have no problem with it
  2. people who need to git gud
17

I don’t get why people go on & on. Life isn’t fair. All this stuff people complain about, they aren’t going to change anyways. You can’t just give boss health pools to each team, that’s just as confusing. Ok, both teams are chiseling the boss away…then one team has a 1/4 left & the other team just eliminates the boss…so what…it disappears randomly from the other team’s screen? It’s just fine how it is. People are just crybabies. If you’re not smart enough to let the other team chisel the bosses while you do other things & multi-task, it’s your own fault. Do people really think they are supposed to win every single game? Letting the other team have a chance at a few points keeps the games closer & more competitive. If it was any other way, the stacked teams would always win 1000 to 200. Stop complaining about all the dumb stuff like: Radar Is Too Short, Spartan Charge Is OP, Ground Pound Needs Removed, Storm Rifle Is Too Good, Warzone Bosses Aren’t Fair, I Lost My Power Weapon Now The Whole World Is Coming To A Standstill, etc. It’s like anything people get beat by once even, they just immediately complain. So adapt your gameplay. It’s not hard to melee a person charging or to watch your Radar for a Ground Pounder. The number one problem with this game is it needs better maps & a few more playlists. I’m fine with just about everything else, just add a Social Slayer + better maps. I could see if they changed max party size to 8 in Warzone too so each team at least had to have a few randoms, that would be fair honestly.

18

Some other things that could help remedy the boss situation are:

  • Reduce the legendary bosses reward to 100 VP. Add more bosses to compensate. This means that if one boss is killed out of pure luck, it won’t impact the game as much. - Make the reward 50 VP to the team that gets the kill, and 50 VP split across the teams, proportional to damage done. - Put the bosses in enclosed spaces like the Warden on March on Stormbreak. This means the boss can’t be sniped across the map (which you can’t do anything about).This will make the system much more fair, but still allow for BR spamming when the boss is about to die to be somewhat effective (which quite a lot of people actually seem to want).
19

removing the health bar is probably the best thing they could do.

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I agree with this thread -
I only think that maby on a boss like warden 4 or 5 people should get the kill not just 2.