So about CTF

SO again I don’t know what the news is on this matter but, are 343i going to put CTF back they way it was?

Dropping the flag and being able to pass it like you can in every other halo game. I would love it if the changes that they made to odd ball was done to CTF, I like how you can get points or an announcer call out when you pass the ball or even intercept it.

I would have to say that CTF is my favorite objective based game mods but not when it comes to halo 4, b/c it feels like they took out the kind of team work you could only find in halo’s CTF game.

Like I said not to sure what the ruling is but, this is just something that I would love to be restored to it’s former glory.

Maybe, maybe not. The only thing confirmed about Halo 5 is that it will have more than 7 maps and more than 11 weapons and more than 7 armor sets because that’s what’s going to be in the Beta.

I don’t want flag juggling in Halo 5, because they already have it so you can throw the oddball. Bringing flag juggling back will only blur the line that seperates the two gametypes, and it’ll make each of the two modes less unique. Besides, the lack of flag dropping encouraged players to actually go for the objective and made the pace a bit smoother. I like the flag carrier being dedicated to delivering the flag. In older Halo’s a carrier could just drop the flag and whip out a rocket launcher. The fact that you can’t drop the flag makes it so you can’t cheat your way out of the situation like that, and so when you’re carrying the flag, you’ll need someone to escort you. Sure, you get a pistol (which I also liked because it still gave you a way to suppress weakened enemies that were after you), but it’s nowhere near the strength of other weapons.

If they have to bring back flag dropping, they need to make it so you can’t juggle the flag. Make the flag always land where you’re standing if you choose to include flag dropping. However, I’d rather do without flag dropping and have them keep H4’s incarnation of CTF (but add instant flag returns and make it so your flag needs to be at home to score).

Grenade button to throw like a spear. Attack button to drop in place. Melee to melee. Weapon swap to hide the flag in your shirt and get sneaky. Sprint button to shimmy shake it and befuddle those attempting to retake a stolen flag. AA button to snap the flag pole in half and weild the two ends like double tonfas- the match then defaults to a typical slayer game.

> I don’t want flag juggling in Halo 5, because they already have it so you can throw the oddball. Bringing flag juggling back will only blur the line that seperates the two gametypes, and it’ll make each of the two modes less unique. Besides, the lack of flag dropping encouraged players to actually go for the objective and made the pace a bit smoother. I like the flag carrier being dedicated to delivering the flag. In older Halo’s a carrier could just drop the flag and whip out a rocket launcher. The fact that you can’t drop the flag makes it so you can’t cheat your way out of the situation like that, and so when you’re carrying the flag, you’ll need someone to escort you. Sure, you get a pistol (which I also liked because it still gave you a way to suppress weakened enemies that were after you), but it’s nowhere near the strength of other weapons.
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> If they have to bring back flag dropping, they need to make it so you can’t juggle the flag. Make the flag always land where you’re standing if you choose to include flag dropping. However, I’d rather do without flag dropping and have them keep H4’s incarnation of CTF (but add instant flag returns and make it so your flag needs to be at home to score).

Taking out a skillful element of the game to make people go for the objective more is silly. You can accomplish the latter by different means; in-game ranks.

Have you ever wondered why when playing a ranked objective gametype in Halo 2/3 not nearly as many people only went for kills but rather tried to go for the objective and win the game? They wanted to rank up and win. There needs to be an incentive for winning again if 343 truly wants people to go for the objective. And removing flag juggling like you’ve suggested isn’t the best way to go about it.

And your logic is flawed. A person should be able to drop the flag and use their rockets if they acquired them. That is the other teams fault for not keeping control of that particular power weapon, and they should be punished for it.

> > I don’t want flag juggling in Halo 5, because they already have it so you can throw the oddball. Bringing flag juggling back will only blur the line that seperates the two gametypes, and it’ll make each of the two modes less unique. Besides, the lack of flag dropping encouraged players to actually go for the objective and made the pace a bit smoother. I like the flag carrier being dedicated to delivering the flag. In older Halo’s a carrier could just drop the flag and whip out a rocket launcher. The fact that you can’t drop the flag makes it so you can’t cheat your way out of the situation like that, and so when you’re carrying the flag, you’ll need someone to escort you. Sure, you get a pistol (which I also liked because it still gave you a way to suppress weakened enemies that were after you), but it’s nowhere near the strength of other weapons.
> >
> > If they have to bring back flag dropping, they need to make it so you can’t juggle the flag. Make the flag always land where you’re standing if you choose to include flag dropping. However, I’d rather do without flag dropping and have them keep H4’s incarnation of CTF (but add instant flag returns and make it so your flag needs to be at home to score).
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> Taking out a skillful element of the game to make people go for the objective more is silly. You can accomplish the latter by different means; in-game ranks.
>
> Have you ever wondered why when playing a ranked objective gametype in Halo 2/3 not nearly as many people only went for kills but rather tried to go for the objective and win the game? They wanted to rank up and win. There needs to be an incentive for winning again if 343 truly wants people to go for the objective. And removing flag juggling like you’ve suggested isn’t the best way to go about it.
>
> And your logic is flawed. A person should be able to drop the flag and use their rockets if they acquired them. That is the other teams fault for not keeping control of that particular power weapon, and they should be punished for it.

Taking out a skillful element? Running forward, jumping, and pressing the Y button to toss a flag? Say what now, how is that more skillful? Being stuck with the flag and not being able to toss it to your teammates takes just as much skill, because you’re stuck with the flag and can’t just pass it to someone else.

My logic isn’t flawed. Just have a teammate carry the rockets, so the enemy would still be punished. Anyways, by making it so you can’t drop the flag for an easy kill, it would make CTF require more teamwork. It makes escorting the flag carrier more important than ever, because the carrier wouldn’t be able to drop the flag to easily defend himself.

I’m not saying that Flag Juggling is bad, my point is that it still takes just as much skill without it, if you read above. There’s also the problem that if you allow players to throw the flag, the line between oddball and CTF would begin to blur just a little, because both would allow players to toss the objective to one another. By keeping the ball-throwing exclusive to Oddball and making Flag Carriers unable to drop the flag in CTF, both gametypes would be more unique. CTF would place more emphasis on escorting your flags carrier and protecting him directly from threats, while Oddball would place more emphasis on tossing the ball to your teammates to keep it away from the enemy. This way, both would be more unique from each other (thus creating more variety within the core gametypes), while also requiring the same amount of skill.

If you’ve got rockets you shouldn’t be carrying the flag anyway. Overall, I think Flagnum/no drop is better than the old system. It encourages teamwork, and makes it so people are less likely to just hang back and pad their kills. There will always be kill-padding, even with skill ranks, and this means that a person won’t just grab the rockets and camp in a corner, occasionally picking up the flag to stop it despawning.

For mainstream oddball I’d prefer if they took out the throwing aspect. Its kind of annoying to outplay the other team just to have them throw it over a cliff.

However they should keep it for gametypes like ricochet and that football game they had last American thanksgiving.

Unless they give the pistol a buff I’d prefer flag juggling to return. Carrying the flag shouldn’t be a death sentence.

> For mainstream oddball I’d prefer if they took out the throwing aspect. Its kind of annoying to outplay the other team just to have them throw it over a cliff.
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> However they should keep it for gametypes like ricochet and that football game they had last American thanksgiving.
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> Unless they give the pistol a buff I’d prefer flag juggling to return. Carrying the flag shouldn’t be a death sentence.

They could simply add a score penalty for Oddball if you toss it off a cliff.

The point of being limited to a pistol is that your teammates are supposed to escort you, increasing emphasis on teamwork. Having a buffed pistol that can fight against a AR/BR/DMR would defeat the purpose. It isn’t a death sentence. Have your teammates protect you and master the skill of flag running.

> > For mainstream oddball I’d prefer if they took out the throwing aspect. Its kind of annoying to outplay the other team just to have them throw it over a cliff.
> >
> > However they should keep it for gametypes like ricochet and that football game they had last American thanksgiving.
> >
> > Unless they give the pistol a buff I’d prefer flag juggling to return. Carrying the flag shouldn’t be a death sentence.
>
> They could simply add a score penalty for Oddball if you toss it off a cliff.
>
> The point of being limited to a pistol is that your teammates are supposed to escort you, increasing emphasis on teamwork. Having a buffed pistol that can fight against a AR/BR/DMR would defeat the purpose. It isn’t a death sentence. Have your teammates protect you and master the skill of flag running.

I could just use your same argument about ctf but for oddball.

In oddball you shouldn’t be allowed to drop the ball because I like my oddball carrier being dedicated to carrying the oddball. The oddball carrier can just drop the ball pull out a rocket launcher and pretty much cheat death. Also its more skillful if you can’t drop the oddball because then your teammates have to protect you instead of you just throwing the ball across the map to them when you’re about to die. Being stuck with the oddball and not being able to pass it to your teammates is much more skillful because you can’t just pass it to your teammates.
Why is it more skillful in ctf to not be able to drop the flag and depend on teammates but oddball isn’t held to the same standard?

Now that I’m done mimicking you another reason why oddball throwing is dumb is because you can just throw it at your pursuer, they now have the oddball and can’t shoot you while you get a couple shots in. I was on both ends of this tactic before finally quitting h4.

I honestly dont see the point in being given a pistol to defend yourself with if your teammates are supposed to defend you and the pistol can’t even help you. “yeah no one is here to escort you because your team isn’t communicating but at least you got a dinky pistol right?”

Personally I prefer to play oddball over keep away and I prefer being able to defend myself when my teammates are dead or derping around doing whatever. The current implementation of ctf only works if you’re playing MLG with dedicated teammates or if you got a full party of friends. Its not really enjoyable from a casual aspect. Which is ironic since its halo 4.

Being able to set the flag down would be nice, but flag-juggling should stay gone.

It lowered the emphasis on team work and doesn’t really require anymore skill than non-stop flagnum

> > > For mainstream oddball I’d prefer if they took out the throwing aspect. Its kind of annoying to outplay the other team just to have them throw it over a cliff.
> > >
> > > However they should keep it for gametypes like ricochet and that football game they had last American thanksgiving.
> > >
> > > Unless they give the pistol a buff I’d prefer flag juggling to return. Carrying the flag shouldn’t be a death sentence.
> >
> > They could simply add a score penalty for Oddball if you toss it off a cliff.
> >
> > The point of being limited to a pistol is that your teammates are supposed to escort you, increasing emphasis on teamwork. Having a buffed pistol that can fight against a AR/BR/DMR would defeat the purpose. It isn’t a death sentence. Have your teammates protect you and master the skill of flag running.
>
> I could just use your same argument about ctf but for oddball.
>
> In oddball you shouldn’t be allowed to drop the ball because I like my oddball carrier being dedicated to carrying the oddball. The oddball carrier can just drop the ball pull out a rocket launcher and pretty much cheat death. Also its more skillful if you can’t drop the oddball because then your teammates have to protect you instead of you just throwing the ball across the map to them when you’re about to die. Being stuck with the oddball and not being able to pass it to your teammates is much more skillful because you can’t just pass it to your teammates.
> Why is it more skillful in ctf to not be able to drop the flag and depend on teammates but oddball isn’t held to the same standard?
>
> Now that I’m done mimicking you another reason why oddball throwing is dumb is because you can just throw it at your pursuer, they now have the oddball and can’t shoot you while you get a couple shots in. I was on both ends of this tactic before finally quitting h4.
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> I honestly dont see the point in being given a pistol to defend yourself with if your teammates are supposed to defend you and the pistol can’t even help you. “yeah no one is here to escort you because your team isn’t communicating but at least you got a dinky pistol right?”
>
> Personally I prefer to play oddball over keep away and I prefer being able to defend myself when my teammates are dead or derping around doing whatever. The current implementation of ctf only works if you’re playing MLG with dedicated teammates or if you got a full party of friends. Its not really enjoyable from a casual aspect. Which is ironic since its halo 4.

From a previous post:
“I’m not saying that Flag Juggling is bad, my point is that it still takes just as much skill without it, if you read above. There’s also the problem that if you allow players to throw the flag, the line between oddball and CTF would begin to blur just a little, because both would allow players to toss the objective to one another. By keeping the ball-throwing exclusive to Oddball and making Flag Carriers unable to drop the flag in CTF, both gametypes would be more unique. CTF would place more emphasis on escorting your flags carrier and protecting him directly from threats, while Oddball would place more emphasis on tossing the ball to your teammates to keep it away from the enemy. This way, both would be more unique from each other (thus creating more variety within the core gametypes), while also requiring the same amount of skill.”

You can dodge the ball that’s getting thrown at you, or simply throw it back after you’re forced to catch it. It’s called having good reflex. Or they could add a score penalty when you toss it to an enemy, but I like it how it is. It requires good reflex.

The Flagnum is there to suppress weakened enemies, or to assist your teammates in a kill. It’s not really good self defense if you can’t kill a fully shielded enemy easily by yourself, and that’s the point, to encourage teamwork. Your teammates are encouraged to escort you.

If you don’t have good teammates, that’s your fault. Build a team for CTF.

> You can dodge the ball that’s getting thrown at you, or simply throw it back after you’re forced to catch it. It’s called having good reflex. Or they could add a score penalty when you toss it to an enemy, but I like it how it is. It requires good reflex.

Kill times are like 2.2342 seconds there isn’t a whole lot of time to react. Especially if there are others in the area. I’m pretty sure there’s aim assist on that oddball because you don’t even have to throw it directly at the guy to make them catch it. And the closer you are the more difficult it is to dodge.

Secondly, whats with all the score penalties? Halo’s objectives don’t have score penalties. Why implement a mechanic, just to penalize players for using it in advantageous ways? What if I throw in a random direction and the enemy just so happens to pick it up? does that constitute me throwing it at the enemy therefore my team deserves to be penalized? what if the enemy team intercepts it? How will the game tell the difference between these scenarios?

> The Flagnum is there to suppress weakened enemies, or to assist your teammates in a kill. It’s not really good self defense if you can’t kill a fully shielded enemy easily by yourself, and that’s the point, to encourage teamwork. Your teammates are encouraged to escort you.

Why do I need a magnum to suppress weakened enemies when I got teammates to suppress weakened enemies? If the whole purpose of not being able to drop the flag is so that the flag runner is focused on running the flag then why give him any weapon at all. Whats the difference between shooting at your opponents with the flagnum while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff and shooting at your opponents with your primary/secondary weapon while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff? it’s not like you’re running the flag while shooting people.Teammates are still encouraged to escort you even if you can drop the flag and defend yourself. What are they supposed to be doing while you’re running the flag? And if you’re thinking of responding to that rhetorical question with “padding their K/Ds” then they’re doing their job as teammates right? protecting the flag runner. But teammates can’t be everywhere at once and I don’t see the point in forcing them to carry the flag runner’s hand the entire way to the objective. Back to oddball, why should the flag runner get a magnum and not the oddball carrier? If you’re answer to that non rhetorical question is “because the oddball carrier can drop/throw the oddball” then I rest my case.

> If you don’t have good teammates, that’s your fault. Build a team for CTF.

Actually it’s the game’s fault. I have no control over who it matches me with. At least we both agree that Halo 4 CTF isn’t as casual friendly as the previous version.

> > You can dodge the ball that’s getting thrown at you, or simply throw it back after you’re forced to catch it. It’s called having good reflex. Or they could add a score penalty when you toss it to an enemy, but I like it how it is. It requires good reflex.
>
> Kill times are like 2.2342 seconds there isn’t a whole lot of time to react. Especially if there are others in the area. I’m pretty sure there’s aim assist on that oddball because you don’t even have to throw it directly at the guy to make them catch it. And the closer you are the more difficult it is to dodge.
>
> Secondly, whats with all the score penalties? Halo’s objectives don’t have score penalties. Why implement a mechanic, just to penalize players for using it in advantageous ways? What if I throw in a random direction and the enemy just so happens to pick it up? does that constitute me throwing it at the enemy therefore my team deserves to be penalized? what if the enemy team intercepts it? How will the game tell the difference between these scenarios?
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>
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> > The Flagnum is there to suppress weakened enemies, or to assist your teammates in a kill. It’s not really good self defense if you can’t kill a fully shielded enemy easily by yourself, and that’s the point, to encourage teamwork. Your teammates are encouraged to escort you.
>
> <mark>Why do I need a magnum to suppress weakened enemies when I got teammates to suppress weakened enemies? If the whole purpose of not being able to drop the flag is so that the flag runner is focused on running the flag then why give him any weapon at all. Whats the difference between shooting at your opponents with the flagnum while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff and shooting at your opponents with your primary/secondary weapon while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff? it’s not like you’re running the flag while shooting people.Teammates are still encouraged to escort you even if you can drop the flag and defend yourself. What are they supposed to be doing while you’re running the flag? And if you’re thinking of responding to that rhetorical question with “padding their K/Ds” then they’re doing their job as teammates right? protecting the flag runner. But teammates can’t be everywhere at once and I don’t see the point in forcing them to carry the flag runner’s hand the entire way to the objective. Back to oddball, why should the flag runner get a magnum and not the oddball carrier? If you’re answer to that non rhetorical question is “because the oddball carrier can drop/throw the oddball” then I rest my case.</mark>
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> > If you don’t have good teammates, that’s your fault. Build a team for CTF.
>
> Actually it’s the game’s fault. I have no control over who it matches me with. At least we both agree that Halo 4 CTF isn’t as casual friendly as the previous version.

this.

> > You can dodge the ball that’s getting thrown at you, or simply throw it back after you’re forced to catch it. It’s called having good reflex. Or they could add a score penalty when you toss it to an enemy, but I like it how it is. It requires good reflex.
>
> Kill times are like 2.2342 seconds there isn’t a whole lot of time to react. Especially if there are others in the area. I’m pretty sure there’s aim assist on that oddball because you don’t even have to throw it directly at the guy to make them catch it. And the closer you are the more difficult it is to dodge.
>
> Secondly, whats with all the score penalties? Halo’s objectives don’t have score penalties. Why implement a mechanic, just to penalize players for using it in advantageous ways? What if I throw in a random direction and the enemy just so happens to pick it up? does that constitute me throwing it at the enemy therefore my team deserves to be penalized? what if the enemy team intercepts it? How will the game tell the difference between these scenarios?
>
>
>
> > The Flagnum is there to suppress weakened enemies, or to assist your teammates in a kill. It’s not really good self defense if you can’t kill a fully shielded enemy easily by yourself, and that’s the point, to encourage teamwork. Your teammates are encouraged to escort you.
>
> Why do I need a magnum to suppress weakened enemies when I got teammates to suppress weakened enemies? If the whole purpose of not being able to drop the flag is so that the flag runner is focused on running the flag then why give him any weapon at all. Whats the difference between shooting at your opponents with the flagnum while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff and shooting at your opponents with your primary/secondary weapon while jumping and strafing and all that good stuff? it’s not like you’re running the flag while shooting people.Teammates are still encouraged to escort you even if you can drop the flag and defend yourself. What are they supposed to be doing while you’re running the flag? And if you’re thinking of responding to that rhetorical question with “padding their K/Ds” then they’re doing their job as teammates right? protecting the flag runner. But teammates can’t be everywhere at once and I don’t see the point in forcing them to carry the flag runner’s hand the entire way to the objective. Back to oddball, why should the flag runner get a magnum and not the oddball carrier? If you’re answer to that non rhetorical question is “because the oddball carrier can drop/throw the oddball” then I rest my case.
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>
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> > If you don’t have good teammates, that’s your fault. Build a team for CTF.
>
> Actually it’s the game’s fault. I have no control over who it matches me with. At least we both agree that Halo 4 CTF isn’t as casual friendly as the previous version.

2 seconds. If you have a stopwatch that counts seconds as well as milliseconds, you’ll see that’s long enough to react if you’re skilled enough. 1 second is even enough. Once you see the ball go in your hands, you can instaneously toss it back, just depends on your reflex. Or you could keep as much distance as possible to dodge the ball as it’s tossed to you. Or you could toss a grenade to strip his shields before confronting him, for an extremely easy kill. Or you could use teamwork in Team Ball instead of going alone Or you could use other players as distractions in of FFA Oddball. There are so many ways to avoid getting killed when the ball is tossed to you. Or they could just add a score penalty when you toss it to an enemy, but personally I prefer it without.

In the case where your teammates are dead, you are given the Flagnum to at least help in a 1-on-1 confrontation if your enemy is weakened, but since it’s only a pistol and not something more effective, you’re still going to be focused on flag running more than going kamikaze and killing enemies. The difference between the pistol and any other weapon is that the pistol is designed as a weapon of desperation, while other weapons like the BR, AR, etc, are not. You can use the pistol if you’re in extreme danger, but it’s hard enough to use that you’re going to be focused more on avoiding that danger rather than confronting it. You can run the flag while shooting people, as long as you’re constantly backing away toward your base and you’re only shooting to try and hold people off. You don’t need your back turned to the enemy to be flag running. Teammates are not encouraged to escort you if you drop the flag because you no longer have the flag. Why would you worry about escorting someone that doesn’t have the flag? Padding your K/D isn’t always protecting the flag runner. If you’re on the opposite side of the map farming random kills while you’re flag carrier is in potential danger, that’s not protecting the flag carrier. The teammates should be holding the flag carrier’s hand along the way because it’s a TEAM GAME so there should obviously be greater emphasis on teamwork. I’m not saying Flag Juggling is bad, I’m saying that because of CTF having the flagnum and no flag dropping, it keeps it more unique from oddball thus adding more variety. The current iteration of CTF requires just as much skill as the classic one, just a different kind of skill. Instead of coordinating flag tosses, you’re escorting the one flag carrier across the way, which takes the same amount of skill. If you want a game where you coordinate to toss the objective to one another, Oddball is there for you. CTF and Oddball shouldn’t have the same gameplay element of tossing the objective to one another, otherwise the two gametypes are less unique from one another.

No, it’s your fault. You don’t have to let the game match you up with random people. All you have to do is find some good players and build a team. So you do have control, you’re just too lazy to use that control to your advantage.