After reading this article, I’m very nervous about H4’s spawn system. Spawn areas should be predictable, but the individual spawn point should not be predictable.
The article doesn’t go into enough detail about the spawn system to make a verdict either way, but it implies that looking at a spawn will negatively influence the entire spawn area. If this is the case, even spawns on static maps will be unpredictable because of the number of factors in play. For this new system to work, the spawn influence needs to work in one of two specific ways:
-
Spawns are independent of each other
-Each spawn point does not affect the weighting of spawns around them. In this way, looking at one spawn with a sniper will prevent a player from spawning at that exact spot, but the player could spawn 1m away at a near spawn point.
-
Spawn clusters always have spawn zones
-Every cluster of spawns needs its own spawn zone, and each spawn area (think rocks on sanctuary) needs multiple spawn zones. In this way, players looking at a spawn negatively influence one spawn area within the spawn zone, but the team will still spawn in the same area.
For either of these to work, opposing player location and teammate deaths must be much high weighted than looking at a spawn. My proposed system will allow spawn areas to be predictable, but will prevent players from dying immediately off spawn.
I like the smart spawn system.
> The article doesn’t go into enough detail about the spawn system to make a verdict either way, but it implies that looking at a spawn will negatively influence the entire spawn area. If this is the case, even spawns on static maps will be unpredictable because of the number of factors in play. For this new system to work, the spawn influence needs to work in one of two specific ways:
Wouldn’t this mean its easier to force someone one to spawn somewhere. Say in Sanctuary if you want the enemies to spawn by rocks you position your team to over look any other spawns. Sounds good for pros but not that great for casuals who might get spawn trapped
I like the new system, I personally don’t like the idea of someone knowing where and when i might spawn and then killing me right when i spawn.
> > The article doesn’t go into enough detail about the spawn system to make a verdict either way, but it implies that looking at a spawn will negatively influence the entire spawn area. If this is the case, even spawns on static maps will be unpredictable because of the number of factors in play. For this new system to work, the spawn influence needs to work in one of two specific ways:
>
> Wouldn’t this mean its easier to force someone one to spawn somewhere. Say in Sanctuary if you want the enemies to spawn by rocks you position your team to over look any other spawns. Sounds good for pros but not that great for casuals who might get spawn trapped
The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
> I like the new system, I personally don’t like the idea of someone knowing where and when i might spawn and then killing me right when i spawn.
My proposed system will prevent players from being killed immediately off spawn while preventing players from spawning behind you.
> The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
I don’t get it, you understand how the system works but your solution is to go passive rather than accepting that once you push far enough to the other side, you have to turn around.
You wish to go passive instead of reactive and your solution to fix that is to avoid the scenario rather than deal with it.
I just hope it’s better than Reach’s. I don’t know how many times people have just spawned behind me and I’ve died. Or how many times I’ve spawned in the middle of a gunfight. Or I’m just dead within a second or two after spawning. None of these things should ever happen. Reach spawns were just terrible.
i realy also hope for a new type of spawn system and what you propose seems like it could work but would take more time and creation to have a system set up for all players to spawn but maby it would be easyer to have a spawn that puts you in stratigicaly or in a place that would give you time to land hits and kills instead of being found and killed with no chance… i do like what you propose though although there still could be problems because the computer mights take into effect the opposeing teams position plus where thier looking and if theyre near one spawn and looking towards another it could create problems.
though it would be nice to get out of the crappy spawning of halo reach. whenever i play 2v2 i always hae problems with campers sitting your spawn in a higher area killing you by the time you take two shots which does of course get irratateing.
but lets all hope they at least do something.
one more example of poor spawning is easily hemorage with a side of objective lets say theyre at your base u die and where do you spawn? out in the open on either side of your base now this might not be as bad for the team near the ocean being they spawn near a big cliff and have cover but for the other side there is no cover and leaves you open to sniper and dmr fire which as well gets very irrateing as im sure many can agree.
sorry for takeing on such a long rantish explination if it even is one of why the spawning does need to be changed like you suggest, and again its not to bad of an idea.
> I like the smart spawn system.
hurrrrr you nevar played tha game
> > The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
>
> I don’t get it, you understand how the system works but your solution is to go passive rather than accepting that once you push far enough to the other side, you have to turn around.
> You wish to go passive instead of reactive and your solution to fix that is to avoid the scenario rather than deal with it.
The problem is that players don’t spawn in waves. Opponents will get the split spawn while you’re trying to kill the opponents in their first spawn, so they will have the first few shots on you and break your setup. It is better to be passive if being aggressive breaks map control.
> 343i will be looking at game balance throughout the lifespan of Halo 4 to ensure that the game remains competitive at a high level.
Lol, it seems like they are doing everything to be sure the game wont be competitive at a high level. Changing the competitive spawn system is just one of many things 343 is doing to cater to noobs. Its Reach all over again.
The games balance is being totally and utterly destroyed by gimmicky AA’s and all the CoD stuff being thrown in. Its not even Halo anymore.
Spawn campers have ruined more matches I have been in than I can count. It’s about time someone put an end to it, because Bungie sure didn’t.
> > The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
>
> I don’t get it, you understand how the system works but your solution is to go passive rather than accepting that once you push far enough to the other side, you have to turn around.
> You wish to go passive instead of reactive and your solution to fix that is to avoid the scenario rather than deal with it.
Yeah, this just blew my tired mind. Good job.
This man is correct. You know what it is, but you’re giving the wrong advice.
> > The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
>
> I don’t get it, you understand how the system works but your solution is to go passive rather than accepting that once you push far enough to the other side, you have to turn around.
> You wish to go passive instead of reactive and your solution to fix that is to avoid the scenario rather than deal with it.
He’s talking about the info he read that simply looking at a spawn would have negative influence on the spawn point.
For example, on sanctuary, if you were on the enemy p-shooter and an opponent spawned rocks, he could look towards rocks and put shots on the guy that spawned, and not have to worry as much about anyone spawning in courtyard behind him.
What you’re thinking of is if he were to push all the way into rocks. In that scenario, the enemy team would rightfully get a split spawn.
I hope that made sense
I think it should be mentioned that grenades and player line of sight will be one of many influences and variables that decide where players will spawn. Just because you are looking at an area doesn’t mean that nobody will spawn there, it just means that there will be a smaller chance. There are a variety of other variables included in the spawn equation, each with their own weighting. How much weight each variable receives within the equation we will probably never know. I don’t think this system will forever eliminate bad spawns, it will lessen the chance of them happening. Building a perfect spawn system is very difficult, but if 343i can effectively incorporate these factors into the spawn system it should reduce these types of unfavorable spawns.
> > > The issue is that if looking at a spawn negatively influences an area as much as a teammate death or an opponent being in that location, then players will split spawn too often. After a team looks to kill the first opponent off spawn, his/her teammates could spawn behind the aggressive team. Punishing players for being aggressive forces them to play passively, leading to slow paced and power weapon oriented play.
> >
> > I don’t get it, you understand how the system works but your solution is to go passive rather than accepting that once you push far enough to the other side, you have to turn around.
> > You wish to go passive instead of reactive and your solution to fix that is to avoid the scenario rather than deal with it.
>
> Yeah, this just blew my tired mind. Good job.
>
> This man is correct. You know what it is, but you’re giving the wrong advice.
Who are you saying is right? If it’s him, read my reply.
As long as they don’t spawn behind me im ok with giving it a try .
Although im sure it will have to be tweaked as 343i is doing testing within and well there probably not trying to put the other team in spawn trap .
> I think it should be mentioned that grenades and line of player line of sight will be one of many influences that decide where players will spawn. Just because you are looking at an area doesn’t mean that nobody will spawn there, it just means that there will be a smaller chance. There are a variety of other variables included in the spawn equation, each with their own weighting. How much weight each variable receives within the equation we will probably never know. I don’t think this system will forever eliminate bad spawns, it will lessen the chance of them happening. Building a perfect spawn system is very difficult, but if 343i can effectively incorporate these factors into the spawn system it should reduce these types of unfavorable spawns.
If the weightings on opposing player location and teammate location are not significantly higher than pieces like LoS, grenades, and teammate deaths, then the spawn system will punish players for being aggressive by giving opponents split spawns.
And no, it’s really not that complicated to make a good spawn system. As long as the area is predictable but the spawn point within the area is not easily predicted, then you have a working spawn system. I outlined how to properly implement LoS to make this function in the OP, and hopefully 343 utilizes it.
looking at a spawn won’t make it so someone can’t spawn there. Its just one of the factors in choosing a spawn.
in past cod games before mw3 the spawns determined by line of sight and how close people were etc.
so theroetically you could lock off certain spawns with nades and line of sight etc in halo 4 to control spawns.
someone could still spawn there if all other zones are worse.