I’ve made a post similar to this in the past. I’m just wondering how people feel now that we know about ragnarok and complex.
The average map size of H4 seems very large imo. I feel that good, fast paced, competitive halo needs smaller maps. I don’t want halo 4 to be dominated by forge maps unless forge is impressively robust.
As is, i hope that all remaining unrevealed maps are small. What’s everyone’s thoughts on the current average map size?
We need numerous textures in Forge for it to take the next step.
I think they’ve adjusted the size of the maps to make them a little bigger because everyone now has sprint.
343i said Haven and Adrift are the smallest maps in Halo 4. But then they showed Solace.
I like the maps so far. Haven, Adrift, and Solace are great 4v4. Longbow, Exile, and Complex are put greatly in the middle of 4v4/6v6. and Ragnarok is great for 8v8, and even works, weirdly, for 4v4. I’m not complaining about map size.
Plus, Sprint.
Besides, Forge will always be great for more maps of different sizes.
And remember, Gameplay > Gray.
to me they seem small. yes there are like 2-3 that look big but they just feel small. way to much cqc. but i will know more when the game comes out
Hey I remember that other thread! And yes all the maps do look very large. I believe the smallest map I’ve seen is still Solace. At first I thought complex was fairly small, but after watching game footage it does look pretty big. Honestly I’d be very dissappointed if Halo 4 lacked small maps. I think Solace will be a good small competitive map. The others are fairly big.
<mark>Map/Size</mark>
<mark>- Longbow (large)</mark>
<mark>- Exile (large)</mark>
<mark>- Ragnarok (large but is actually great for both BTB and 4v4)</mark>
<mark>- Haven (Meduim to Large)</mark>
<mark>- Adrift (Meduim)</mark>
<mark>- Complex (Meduim to Large)</mark>
<mark>- Solace (the only real small looking map)</mark>
I think that’s all of the one’s we’ve seen so far. That leaves three. It looks like we have three large maps, three medium maps, and one small map. Now it was said that there would be no small maps. But Solace does look like a small map. So I assume this “no small maps” thing was just taking 343’s words WAY to literally. They did up the scale but that doesn’t mean small maps are out. So I hope they don’t reveal the three remaining maps but I hope of the three there are at least two small maps, and either a Large map or a medium map that can be used for both BTB and 4 v 4 (kinda like Ragnarok). I do hope small maps make it in. I do love BTB, but I do play a lot of team slayer too, and I would die without some good close quarters combat that is tight and fast. I do agree that the competitive community needs small maps. I would be very dissappointed if Solace was the only small map. So I believe there should be atleast two more small maps, otherwise I’m totally fine with the maps and map sizes.
I understand why you want smaller maps, but there’s 2 things to mention:
1. Sprint makes each map feel like one category smaller.
-Small-Medium is now Small, Medium is now Small-Medium etc. Maps like The Pit, Guardian, Lockout, and Midship etc. would feel much smaller when being able to run at any time. So in a way, Haven is considered small. Solace is pretty small too from CTF footage I have seen(I saw him cap the flag himself in about 20 seconds)
2. It’s important to have maps that can fit into multiple playlists.
-It sucks when you are stuck with extremes. Maps that are too small, and too large, just don’t have enough versatility to get good use out of them. I’m not saying having 1 or 2 really small and really big maps would be bad, but obviously you can’t make the majority the extremes. It’s good to have maps that will fit 4 vs 4, 6 vs 6, and 8 vs 8. Have some maps that are better suited for 4 vs 4, but still doable with 8 vs 8, and vice versa. Which is what they have so far. They’ve got a lot of versatile maps that can comfortably played on with multiple team sizes, as well as free for all. I’m sure we will get a couple really small maps and a couple really big ones, especially with the 9 more DLC maps.
The way I see it, we have(with sprint in mind):
Small:
-Haven
-Solace
Small-Medium:
-Adrift
Medium:
-Exile
-Longbow
Medium-Large:
-Complex
-Remake
Large:
-None
That’s how I view it. Obviously you disagree with me, but when you take sprint into the equation and actually analyze footage, that’s what it appears to be. We have yet to have a really huge map like Sandtrap or Containment, even the remake feels Medium-Large based on the game it was originally in plus sprint now. Haven and Solace just look small. It’s hard to imagine something smaller with sprint being an option, unless the map was made for strictly doubles in mind. I wouldn’t mind 1 or 2 smaller one, but it’d probably result in them feeling way too crowded and chaotic.
If I could fill the last 3 spots, I would go 1 Large one, 1 smaller than Haven/Solace, and 1 Small-Medium. That would really balance it out. Then with the DLC you can add more where necessary.
I’d like a map like Rat Race, a perfect mix of short and long sightlines.
> I’d like a map like Rat Race, a perfect mix of short and long sightlines.
Exile is kinda like that. Or it’s atleast reminicent of it. With the circular track for vehicles. Middle section for avoiding vehicles. And caves and concealed walkways on the edges.
Yes but Exile is a BTB map with vehicles, Rat Race was a foot map.
> Yes but Exile is a BTB map with vehicles, Rat Race was a foot map.
I think he was mistaking Rat Race for Rat’s Nest. Too similar of names and it gets confusing.
I want maps where I can shoot a guy from one side to the other. If yall have noticed that is how almost all of the H1+H2 maps were like clean sight-lines and face to face combat. Not all of the sight-lines should be like that, but think like Damnation how many different sight-lines it had or Warlock.
> 343i said Haven and Adrift are the smallest maps in Halo 4. But then they showed Solace.
>
> I like the maps so far. Haven, Adrift, and Solace are great 4v4. Longbow, Exile, and Complex are put greatly in the middle of 4v4/6v6. and Ragnarok is great for 8v8, and even works, weirdly, for 4v4. I’m not complaining about map size.
>
> Plus, Sprint.
>
> Besides, Forge will always be great for more maps of different sizes.
> And remember, Gameplay > Gray.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
> I want maps where I can shoot a guy from one side to the other. If yall have noticed that is how all of the H1+H2 maps were like clean sight-lines and face to face combat.
That’s what Solace is mainly about, as well as Haven to a degree. If you have listened to some developer commentary on Solace, he talks about how they really took inspiration from Lockout and Narrows, wanting to have a map where it had long sight lines where you could see across the map etc. Looks to be great for that. Haven has a similar vibe, just with a couple levels at play. It’s really not a big map though. It makes me think of something around Foundation’s size.
Edit: Ignore this, I changed my mind.
> Yes but Exile is a BTB map with vehicles, Rat Race was a foot map.
AAWWW yes what Aggressive Sock said! Sorry I was thinking of Rat’s Nest, not Rat Race. My bad!!! It’s late over here…
> > Yes but Exile is a BTB map with vehicles, Rat Race was a foot map.
>
> I think he was mistaking Rat Race for Rat’s Nest. Too similar of names and it gets confusing.
Yeah, I did confuse the two. Exile is reminicent of Rat’s Nest not Rat Race.
I agree with desktop. Line of sight might wven be more important than actual map size. The ability to shoot from one side of the map to the other speeds of the gameplay very much, and allows for team fire, and covering team mates to be very critical. A perfect map to relate this point to is Hang’em High. Not small at all, but always forced combat.
I understand the point that sprint should expand map size a bit. However, i think the necessary increase in size is less than ppl approximate; the map size is much more dependent on accurate weapon range and human accuracy potential.
I’m just looking for a few maps that will scratch that fast, semi-chaotic gameplay itch.
> I want maps where I can shoot a guy from one side to the other. If yall have noticed that is how almost all of the H1+H2 maps were like clean sight-lines and face to face combat. Not all of the sight-lines should be like that, but think like Damnation how many different sight-lines it had or Warlock.
Those are great sight lines. However, when you say “can shoot a guy from one side to the other”, I believe you should be more specific… somehow.
Because while those are great for Damnation and Warlock, of course, it was not great at all for HemoRAGE with DMR spawns.
So, good, long sight lines are great, if there’s good amount of cover to balance it. Like Team SWAT on Elongation from Halo 2 
> I’m just looking for a few maps that will scratch that fast, semi-chaotic gameplay itch.
I believe that’s why I love seeing Haven. It fits that amazing gameplay and reminds me of Guardian.
> Sorry to edit out most of you post but it was a LONG post, which is good that just shows you put a lot of thought in this topic and you did make a good post. But I think the remake and complex would at least fit in the same map sizing as Longbow. And yes, sprint will be speeding things up. But not as much as everyone thinks. Sprint in Reach didn’t make things too crampt and small. Sure not everyone used it, but a lot of people did. And when they did it didn’t make the map too small. Sure player models were initially slower in Reach but even with the faster models in 4 sprint didn’t speed them up a whole lot. Point is (and I know I’m giving this point very poorly, sorry it’s very late in the night over here) that it won’t speed things up and make it crampt as everyone beleives it will. Now Solice looks to be the only truely small map. And it is a small map! Does the gameplay for it look crampt and to sped up? No! And as a side note watching people play Halo 4 most forget they even have sprint and never even really use it! Which won’t be the case for most of the community but still it doesn’t matter if sprint is default it would affect it too much. It’ll all work. <mark>Sure we can’t have maps as small as some in the past but we can still have smaller maps.</mark>
The thing is…from the footage we’ve seen, we always saw 4 vs 4 or 5 vs 5 on Exile and Longbow. The matches were always filled with action, non-stop, and the maps seem to work best at that setting. So that’s why they just don’t seem large. I saw someone in a PAX gameplay vid, cap the flag on Exile by himself just walking, in about 20 seconds. That’s from the middle of the map to their base. So roughly 40 seconds to get from one side to the other just walking. It seems very similar in size to Standoff. Which I would consider Medium-Large if sprint is there, plus it’s in a canyon so it’s not just 1 big open area.
Longbow isn’t much bigger. It seems like it’s mainly just a base, with a smaller base, and then a small-medium sized area to drive around in. The map as a whole doesn’t seem any bigger than Zanzibar. Which was always a Medium-Large map, especially when you add sprint it couldn’t be seen as Large.
I could be off. I just don’t consider any of these maps to be considered “Large” when you have maps like Sidewinder, Containment, Boneyard, Spire, and Sandtrap. Those maps feel “Large”, as if they should be in their own category. They take forever to walk from 1 side to the other. Exile and Longbow have more stuff to occupy space, and overall they just don’t seem like any bigger than Standoff was. Standoff was a map that could support 8 vs 8, but it also played 4 vs 4 just fine. Exile and Longbow seem smaller in comparison, because 5 vs 5 seems to be the ideal team size. The remake is probably more comfortable at 6 vs 6. Yet we still have no definite 8 vs 8 feeling map. Just as we have no really small one. As I said, they are going for versatility, which is good. I’m sure we will get more extremes with some DLC ones, and the last 3 will probably have at least 1 small or large one.
At least this way each playlist won’t be relegated to only 3-4 maps. BTB has Exile, Complex, Longbow, and Remake, and we’ll probably get 1 or 2 more middle ground maps. 4 vs 4 will work for just about any map shown so far.