Slightly different path for movement

Classic this, modern that.

No secret I’m not too fond of the modern path taken with the movement mechanics.
Thrusters however I think do have a use, everything else can go though.

So, Classic with thrusters? Not really what I’m about to suggest, but close.

First of, it’d be interesting to see thrusters seeing some changes, mainly, being vector force driven.
Thrusters would always apply the same force to the player, in different directions of course. Then depending on the player’s direction and movement speed, the Thruster force would be added onto it, in vector math, and the new vector would be what happens to the player for a brief moment.
Say you’re running straight forward and your vector is B, doing a rapid thrust backwards would not send you flying backwards, but the thrusters would apply B, but in the exact opposite direction, thus -B. The result would be 0, and you’d come to a rapid sudden stop.

Using a man cannon could have you decrese your speed for a shorter arc, or increase your speed for a slightly longer arc, or send you sideways for a curved arc.

Another thing that could be tested, would be a short wall run as well as wall jump.

Wall running is as its name applies, running on walls. Familiar from Titanfall foremost, perhaps.
Halo’s wall running could be made shorter, but depending on angle of impact to wall.
Meaning, if you run almost parrallel to the wall, you’ll run far on it. Going at it almost straight would only function slightly like a jump, you’d go upwards along the wall.

Wall jumping then. Either you’re wall running, or while airborne collide with a wall. Both would enable you to wall jump. You’d jump upwards and also away from the wall.

All this while retaining all combat capabilities.

You lost me at ‘vector’. Sorry. No idea what’s going on here. :stuck_out_tongue:

> 2535415876049274;2:
> You lost me at ‘vector’. Sorry. No idea what’s going on here. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry.

A vector is a mathematical term for a direction in a grid, be it 2D or 3D ( we can increase dimensions indefinately but it’s just theoretical at that point ). Length of it is used as force as well.

Have you seen the Mythbusters episode where they drive a car and fire a basketball backwards?
Essentially, they were driving in one direction, and had a cannon which fired a basketball in the opposite direction. The end result was that the basketball stood almost in place and just fell to the ground.
Everything’s vector was A, they then applied a force equal to A, but in the opposite direction, -A, to the basketball.
The ball was traveling 60 Mph, and they fired it out at 60 Mph, but because it went the other way, the two motions cancelled each other out and the ball moved at 0 Mph.

How I’d like thrusters to work.

I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.

> 2533274826044245;4:
> I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.

Could you explain that a little more?

I’m a fan of most of the modern movement, but I would not be a fan of wall running. I would rather them ditch spartan charge, remove the splash damage from ground pound, and keep everything else as is

> 2533274795123910;5:
> > 2533274826044245;4:
> > I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.
>
> Could you explain that a little more?

Wall running? Thats just not Halo, & would be a huge mistake if that was added. Thats why I don’t see it being implemented at all. Of course this is all just guess work

> 2533274826044245;7:
> > 2533274795123910;5:
> > > 2533274826044245;4:
> > > I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.
> >
> > Could you explain that a little more?
>
> Wall running? Thats just not Halo, & would be a huge mistake if that was added.

That doesn’t explain anything, and it’s extremely vague.

> 2533274794684102;6:
> I’m a fan of most of the modern movement, but I would not be a fan of wall running.

How so?

I love this idea. It just makes sense, but when wall jumping, could you possibly use thrusters to gain height and clamber walls higher than normal?( like the warp wall from American ninja warrior)Basically almost a minor double jump.

> 2533274795123910;1:
> Classic this, modern that.
>
> No secret I’m not too fond of the modern path taken with the movement mechanics.
> Thrusters however I think do have a use, everything else can go though.
>
>
> Another thing that could be tested, would be a short wall run as well as wall jump.
>
> Wall running is as its name applies, running on walls. Familiar from Titanfall foremost, perhaps.
> Halo’s wall running could be made shorter, but depending on angle of impact to wall.
> Meaning, if you run almost parrallel to the wall, you’ll run far on it. Going at it almost straight would only function slightly like a jump, you’d go upwards along the wall.

Kind of like “wall sprint”?

I have always been and continue to be confounded at how people can disapprove of sprint and yet find absolutely nothing wrong with thruster. Obviously you have no such reservations so that’s that. But I have to say that sprint doesn’t really seem to me to make Halo a much faster game than it already was. Thrust does. That’s bad, in my opinion.

And wall running? Can you think of any way to make Halo even twitchier, all ninja style, and making map geometry even less relevant than it already is?

> 2533274808754416;10:
> > 2533274795123910;1:
> > Classic this, modern that.
> >
> > No secret I’m not too fond of the modern path taken with the movement mechanics.
> > Thrusters however I think do have a use, everything else can go though.
> >
> > Another thing that could be tested, would be a short wall run as well as wall jump.
> >
> > Wall running is as its name applies, running on walls. Familiar from Titanfall foremost, perhaps.
> > Halo’s wall running could be made shorter, but depending on angle of impact to wall.
> > Meaning, if you run almost parrallel to the wall, you’ll run far on it. Going at it almost straight would only function slightly like a jump, you’d go upwards along the wall.
>
> Kind of like “wall sprint”?

The only thing I get is people sprinting in place leaning against a wall.

> 2535457901035640;9:
> I love this idea. It just makes sense, but when wall jumping, could you possibly use thrusters to gain height and clamber walls higher than normal?( like the warp wall from American ninja warrior)Basically almost a minor double jump.

I was thinking thrusters only boosting the player in sideways, not really allowing for more height, only a longer distance travelled.
But maybe?

> 2533274795123910;12:
> I was thinking thrusters only boosting the player in sideways, not really allowing for more height, only a longer distance travelled.
> But maybe?

Ok but still if the thrusters can hold a spartan in the air for a few seconds, we should be able to use a sudden thrust to gain height.

> 2533274873843883;11:
> I have always been and continue to be confounded at how people can disapprove of sprint and yet find absolutely nothing wrong with thruster. Obviously you have no such reservations so that’s that. But I have to say that sprint doesn’t really seem to me to make Halo a much faster game than it already was. Thrust does. That’s bad, in my opinion.

Yet I’ve suggested to change how thrusters work.

> 2533274873843883;11:
> And wall running? Can you think of any way to make Halo even twitchier, all ninja style, and making map geometry even less relevant than it already is?

Just like with any movement mechanic, I imagine wall running and jumping would be taken into account when designing maps.
However, I’m curious how map geometry would become less relevant with wall running ( and jumping ).

I love the concept of more physics-based movement, but I can’t see how making Thruster Pack 100% honest with momentum conservation would make it better. By not allowing the player to change directions in mid-air, you remove one of the aspects that makes Thruster Pack interesting. The disappointment is partly offset by the fact that you can conserve momentum to jumps to extend the speed boost and possibly create some interesting jumps, but I don’t know whether this is more interesting than the old Thruster Pack. Really, to me the best of both worlds would be to not conserve any of the pre-thrust momentum, but add momentum conservation out of a thrust, because conserving momentum out of a thrust allows you to do some cool things, but not being able to change directions with it is kind of lame.

Also, when it comes to wall runs and jumps, I’m partial to wall jumps, and they could also be momentum-based with three components: a constant boost perpendicular to the wall, a small parallel boost upwards, and a parallel boost in current direction of motion (projected to the wall). However, the wall jump should also contain an element of timing, which is that if too many frames pass between hitting the wall, and performing a wall jump, only the perpendicular boost is applied. Wall jumps should also be immediately chainable, if the next wall is close enough, but this means that the timing has to be sufficiently thight that it’s not too easy to make your personal elevator between two perpendicular walls.

As far as wall running is concerned, I don’t like it because I don’t consider it an interesting ability for Halo. If the game is built around allowing the player to scale all walls without restrictions, à la Titanfall, then wall running is a natural part of the basic arsenal. However, even in those games it’s not an interesting tool in itself. It’s just a necessary tool for maintaining speed between all the other tricks. It’s just the animation between wall jumps. I don’t believe Halo should ever strive to be such a game. I don’t think Halo should give the player more freedom unless that extra freedom enables new interesting tricks. Wall running doesn’t do that, but wall jumping does.

> 2533274795123910;14:
> > 2533274873843883;11:
> >
>
> Yet I’ve suggested to change how thrusters work.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274873843883;11:
> >
>
> Just like with any movement mechanic, I imagine wall running and jumping would be taken into account when designing maps.
> However, I’m curious how map geometry would become less relevant with wall running ( and jumping ).

Changing thrusters to be more consistent with physics is a nice idea, but regardless of how thrust is executed they still make the game twitchier than I want it to be.

Add wall running to the list of phenomena that take a players head out of the plane that’s parallel to and seven feet above the floor. That makes targets harder to hit. If you believe that Halo needs to get harder then maybe wall running is a way forward. To me it just looks like another way to reduce the importance of conventional map flow, like trick jumping in the older games, like clamber in the current version. They put these things in for novelty, to make the player feel like they’re clever and can bend the map to their will, but to me they add another element of challenge that feels gimmicky and that I’m not really interested in tackling. Once I’ve mastered the game as it is, maybe then I’ll be more willing to take on new things. That’ll be never, in case you were wondering.

> 2533274825830455;15:
> As far as wall running is concerned, I don’t like it because I don’t consider it an interesting ability for Halo. If the game is built around allowing the player to scale all walls without restrictions, à la Titanfall, then wall running is a natural part of the basic arsenal. However, even in those games it’s not an interesting tool in itself. It’s just a necessary tool for maintaining speed between all the other tricks. It’s just the animation between wall jumps. I don’t believe Halo should ever strive to be such a game. I don’t think Halo should give the player more freedom unless that extra freedom enables new interesting tricks. Wall running doesn’t do that, but wall jumping does.

^This is how I feel about wall running. I found wall running in Titanfall to be little more than necessary for getting to certain areas via a different route. It was cool at first, but it quickly became meh and it was more an exercise in tedium to use it effectively than it was worth, for me. The problem was, if you didn’t use it, you put yourself at a disadvantage to those who did. It was one of the deciding factors for me just walking away from Titanfall. Perhaps not the biggest, but it was one that was noteworthy. Not to mention… we all see how well received ‘loadouts’ were for H4 and how many people claimed ‘borrowed from CoD’. Do we really want another mechanic borrowed from another game? I don’t. I’d rather have a mechanic/addition 343 put their own thought into for a change.

> 2533274795123910;8:
> > 2533274826044245;7:
> > > 2533274795123910;5:
> > > > 2533274826044245;4:
> > > > I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.
> > >
> > > Could you explain that a little more?
> >
> > Wall running? Thats just not Halo, & would be a huge mistake if that was added.
>
> That doesn’t explain anything, and it’s extremely vague.
>
>
> > 2533274794684102;6:
> > I’m a fan of most of the modern movement, but I would not be a fan of wall running.
>
> How so?

What else would you like me to say about wall running? Running on walls is not Halo, would you like me to explain the principles of how one runs on walls? Im not to sure how much more detail you expect me to go into lol. I just disagree with the whole principle of wall running being in Halo. There isn’t much more to it.

> 2533274825830455;15:
> I love the concept of more physics-based movement, but I can’t see how making Thruster Pack 100% honest with momentum conservation would make it better. By not allowing the player to change directions in mid-air, you remove one of the aspects that makes Thruster Pack interesting. The disappointment is partly offset by the fact that you can conserve momentum to jumps to extend the speed boost and possibly create some interesting jumps, but I don’t know whether this is more interesting than the old Thruster Pack. Really, to me the best of both worlds would be to not conserve any of the pre-thrust momentum, but add momentum conservation out of a thrust, because conserving momentum out of a thrust allows you to do some cool things, but not being able to change directions with it is kind of lame.

Well, it’d be a change in directions, of sorts, in an angle based on your current forward momentum, with that preserved.
Essentially, a man cannon could have you slam into a wall, unless you thrust left or right at the right moments to go through a doorway or window, on the wall the man cannon is aimed at. Or decrease your momentum to land on a specific spot.

While true, changing directions entirely would be lost.
Tap would do momentum conservation
Hold would make a powerful boost to change direction with no pre-thrust momentum conservation?

> 2533274825830455;15:
> Also, when it comes to wall runs and jumps, I’m partial to wall jumps, and they could also be momentum-based with three components: a constant boost perpendicular to the wall, a small parallel boost upwards, and a parallel boost in current direction of motion (projected to the wall). However, the wall jump should also contain an element of timing, which is that if too many frames pass between hitting the wall, and performing a wall jump, only the perpendicular boost is applied. Wall jumps should also be immediately chainable, if the next wall is close enough, but this means that the timing has to be sufficiently thight that it’s not too easy to make your personal elevator between two perpendicular walls.

Timing should indeed be a big part of doing them, but that is quite well explained how I’d imagine it to be.

> 2533274825830455;15:
> As far as wall running is concerned, I don’t like it because I don’t consider it an interesting ability for Halo. If the game is built around allowing the player to scale all walls without restrictions, à la Titanfall, then wall running is a natural part of the basic arsenal. However, even in those games it’s not an interesting tool in itself. It’s just a necessary tool for maintaining speed between all the other tricks. It’s just the animation between wall jumps. I don’t believe Halo should ever strive to be such a game. I don’t think Halo should give the player more freedom unless that extra freedom enables new interesting tricks. Wall running doesn’t do that, but wall jumping does.

Well, Titanfall is the most known game with Wall running, I went with it because of that, few know of UT (4).Titanfall does have a long wall run, while UT (4) doesn’t.
Unreal Tournament (4) wall run, albeit they try double wall running.

It’d more come down to what kind of map hazards could be present and avoided using wall running, and, what kind of alternative routes could be taken.
I however understand the concern.

> 2533274826044245;18:
> > 2533274795123910;8:
> > > 2533274826044245;7:
> > > > 2533274795123910;5:
> > > > > 2533274826044245;4:
> > > > > I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.
> > > >
> > > > Could you explain that a little more?
> > >
> > > Wall running? Thats just not Halo, & would be a huge mistake if that was added.
> >
> > That doesn’t explain anything, and it’s extremely vague.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274794684102;6:
> > > I’m a fan of most of the modern movement, but I would not be a fan of wall running.
> >
> > How so?
>
> What else would you like me to say about wall running? Running on walls is not Halo, would you like me to explain the principles of how one runs on walls? Im not to sure how much more detail you expect me to go into lol. I just disagree with the whole principle of wall running being in Halo. There isn’t much more to it.

“It isn’t Halo” is a very vague description of how or why something shouldn’t be added / tested.
What if it turned out to be “very Halo”?
If you disagree then you disagree.

> 2533274795123910;19:
> > 2533274825830455;15:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533274826044245;18:
> > > 2533274795123910;8:
> > > > 2533274826044245;7:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;5:
> > > > > > 2533274826044245;4:
> > > > > > I hope thrusters are gone. I only really like clamber. As for wall running, I can with 99% confidence say this will not be in infinite, unless they plan on killing the franchise. But thats just my opinion. I think they will balance the old modern mechanics with the new ones.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you explain that a little more?
> > > >
> > > > Wall running? Thats just not Halo, & would be a huge mistake if that was added.
> > >
> > > That doesn’t explain anything, and it’s extremely vague.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274794684102;6:
> > > > I’m a fan of most of the modern movement, but I would not be a fan of wall running.
> > >
> > > How so?
> >
> > What else would you like me to say about wall running? Running on walls is not Halo, would you like me to explain the principles of how one runs on walls? Im not to sure how much more detail you expect me to go into lol. I just disagree with the whole principle of wall running being in Halo. There isn’t much more to it.
>
> “It isn’t Halo” is a very vague description of how or why something shouldn’t be added / tested.
> What if it turned out to be “very Halo”?
> If you disagree then you disagree.

It “isn’t Halo” is a great description. Halo sets trends, it doesn’t follow them. Thats what makes Halo great. Look what happened with H4 (call of duty). Now you want wall running like Titan fall & tournament? Its not wise to copy other games, it never ends well. Just look at H4.