Skulls, Stats, Challenges, and the Campaign

Games Other Halo
1

Hey all!

For those who don’t know me, I’m Sangheilioz, the site admin for Mythic Nation. I was 28th out of the 43 (at the time of this writing) individuals who completed Halo 3 on Mythic difficulty, and 6th out of 25 (again, at the time of this writing) to complete Halo: Reach on Mythic. For those who do not know what Mythic difficulty is, please click here for a summary. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

As site admin, and one of the leaders of the Mythic community, I want to make a few small requests regarding features in the upcoming Halo 4.

The first is that we see a return of the typical skull palette as seen in Halo 3, ODST, and Reach. While Anniversary was fun to play, Mythic was something of a joke due to the inclusion of skulls that make things easier, such as Bandana and Grunt Funeral. For a community dedicated to tackling the campaigns on the hardest possible settings, having skulls that provide an advantage divided us deeply, as we split hairs on what was truly “Mythic”… all skulls or hardest settings? At the very least, I pray you separate detrimental and advantageous skulls clearly, or perhaps implement a separate interface for advantageous effects entirely.

The second request is that when/if an API is made available for fans to access game data, that more information is made available than what was provided by Bungie’s API. For example, whether a mission was started at the beginning, at a rally point, or at a checkpoint. Whether the mission was completed or if the player quit and what skulls were active are also important pieces of information that were absent to us in the previous iteration of the API (hence why we needed to require saved films AND online game stats to verify runs for recognition in our community). Basically, the more information we have access to, the less limited our creativity will be, and I don’t think I need to remind you of the vast potential of the Halo community’s creativity.

Third, with the Iron Skull, should it make the cut (and I sincerely hope it does!) I would like to see its effects altered to completely remove checkpoints when active, at least while playing solo. As it stands, the Iron Skull in solo can be circumvented by saving and quitting, making the skull essentially a free point multiplier. I would rather see checkpoints totally disabled by the skull, so that saving and quitting results in the save being at the start of the mission.

Fourth, if a “custom challenge” tool makes an appearance in Halo 4, it would be beneficial to have more refined controls for it. Such as forcing to start from the beginning, or requiring no deaths. More specific objectives such as being able to set Kill X of enemy Y with Z action/weapon would also make for interesting possibilities.

Finally, should a Cr system similar to Reach’s be implemented, I request that you not cut off payouts in the campaign like what happens now. Currently, once you reach Silver in a campaign commendation, you receive no Cr for individual actions that contribute to that commendation. Because of this, there is discouragement to continue enjoying the campaign and attempting new campaign challenges as we do not receive the same compensation for our time as we would in matchmaking, or firefight. It really is a shame that there seems to be a punishment for those who spend so much time truly mastering the campaign.

While these are not all of the concerns myself and the Mythic Community have, they are some of our highest-priority requests. I’m sure there are many more things the community would like to see, and I invite discussion in this thread as to what else could help to make Halo 4’s campaign experience the best it can possibly be.

Thank you.

2

I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.

3

> I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.

I agree with that, hunting for the skulls in Halo 3 and CEA was a blast! I’m still quite proud of finding IWHBYD without a guide in 3.

4

I must disagree with the credit system as it encourages spawn farming or other undesirable tactics while in multiplayer. The same goes for commendations, they should do away with both of them. Custom campaign challenges are only kill based because if you could get a mondo payout by doing a LASO level it would mean infinite credits to those who save games at the end of levels on seperate drives. Just load up a previous save and boom, PoA mythic at the mac cannon. 2 minutes of work for a cool ‘input your number here’ credits lets say. Halo CEA was limited with the skull options. Since they were just remaking the look of the game for the most part, adding effects would have meant altering the core of the game, which while making h4 at the same time probably would mean interferring too much with their primary project.

For example if there was no IWHBYD skull to unlock strange interesting dialogue that didn’t exist in the game originally, it would mean having to add something in a remake that was not there in the first place.

So CEA’s skull effects I believe were chosen specifically so they would not need to alter the code of the original.

5

I agree with most that you said, but skulls like Bandanna that make the Campaign easy should be put in. I think Bandanna should be a Silver skull instead of a Gold skull, with perhaps others that make the campaign easier. I say this because as someone that thoroughly loves trying to get out of the maps, Bandanna is suited just for this and it means those saves that you make when you’re just messing around are more fun. I would say just turn on all the Gold skulls if you want to commit to the Mythic Challenge and leave Silver for non-mythic players who like to mess around.

6

> I must disagree with the credit system as it encourages spawn farming or other undesirable tactics while in multiplayer. The same goes for commendations, they should do away with both of them. Custom campaign challenges are only kill based because if you could get a mondo payout by doing a LASO level it would mean infinite credits to those who save games at the end of levels on seperate drives. Just load up a previous save and boom, PoA mythic at the mac cannon. 2 minutes of work for a cool ‘input your number here’ credits lets say. Halo CEA was limited with the skull options. Since they were just remaking the look of the game for the most part, adding effects would have meant altering the core of the game, which while making h4 at the same time probably would mean interferring too much with their primary project.
>
> For example if there was no IWHBYD skull to unlock strange interesting dialogue that didn’t exist in the game originally, it would mean having to add something in a remake that was not there in the first place.
>
> So CEA’s skull effects I believe were chosen specifically so they would not need to alter the code of the original.

I feel I should clarify that I’m not asking for the Cr system back, only that whatever system Halo 4 has doesn’t punish players for playing the campaign extensively like Reach’s system does. Regarding the custom challenges, that’s where more fine-grained controls would come in handy. For example, a LASO challenge might be next-to worthless without the “must start at beginning of level” requirement.

I understand the limitations they had regarding CEA, and honestly it doesn’t matter because there’s no online stats or saved films to prove one’s accomplishment anyway. In fact, I very much enjoyed being able to take advantage of things like Bandana in CEA; it was fun. But I was also severely disappointed because the thing I was most looking forward to was going back and beating the game that started it all on Mythic, and Mythic turned out to be a frag-fest joke.

> I agree with most that you said, but skulls like Bandanna that make the Campaign easy should be put in. I think Bandanna should be a Silver skull instead of a Gold skull, with perhaps others that make the campaign easier. I say this because as someone that thoroughly loves trying to get out of the maps, Bandanna is suited just for this and it means those saves that you make when you’re just messing around are more fun. I would say just turn on all the Gold skulls if you want to commit to the Mythic Challenge and leave Silver for non-mythic players who like to mess around.

My point here is not that I don’t want things like Bandana, but that I don’t want advantageous and disadvantageous modifiers so ambiguously mixed. If you ever played Halo Wars, there were two sets of collectibles in that game; skulls and black boxes. The boxes unlocked intel in the Timeline feature, and the skulls acted as game modifiers. A possible system that could work in Halo 4 is, again, having two sets of collectibles. Having the skulls act as detrimental effects, and “black box” effects giving advantages.

I would also settle for silver skulls being advantageous and gold being disadvantageous, but even that brings back the “all skulls” vs “hardest settings” problem for the Mythic community. Still, it’s a good suggestion.

7

> > I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.
>
> I agree with that, hunting for the skulls in Halo 3 and CEA was a blast! I’m still quite proud of finding IWHBYD without a guide in 3.

I prefer halo 2s skull system. It encouraged exploration of maps, to find new and interesting skulls because you didnt have a skull menu to know how many skulls there were…

8

> > > I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.
> >
> > I agree with that, hunting for the skulls in Halo 3 and CEA was a blast! I’m still quite proud of finding IWHBYD without a guide in 3.
>
> I prefer halo 2s skull system. It encouraged exploration of maps, to find new and interesting skulls because you didnt have a skull menu to know how many skulls there were…

I didn’t like that you had to go pick them up every time you wanted them active. Doing something like Mythic would take you an hour just to set up.

9

> having skulls that provide an advantage…

Imo, it’s alright for a skull to have an advantage provided that it has appropriate disadvantages to balance it. For instance, Sputnik. Advantages include accessing higher locations and turning enemies around by meleeing them. Disadvantages include cover being blown away, scenery items becoming death traps, gun fire flipping your vehicle. In exchange for expanding your playing field, the default one becomes much more dangerous.

> At the very least, I pray you separate detrimental and advantageous skulls clearly, or perhaps implement a separate interface for advantageous effects entirely.

I think difficulty (gold) and fun (silver) are not enough. I would like to see an expansion on skull categories, particularly AI. So far, AI skulls just affect probability (Catch, Tough Luck) and durability (Thunderstorm, Tilt, Mythic). I’d like to see ones that affect the AI itself, such as burst duration, which was quite distinctive in CE. Catch was fun at first but now it’s just sad seeing AI throw grenades recklessly with excessive friendly fire (and even interfering with scripting at times, such as the Pelican at the end of S117 and the Falcon on TotS). Likewise, Tough Luck, already adding to the absurd response to grenades (in H3) and eyes-in-the-back-of-the-head response to needle rifle fire.

> Third, with the Iron Skull, should it make the cut (and I sincerely hope it does!) I would like to see its effects altered to completely remove checkpoints when active, at least while playing solo. As it stands, the Iron Skull in solo can be circumvented by saving and quitting, making the skull essentially a free point multiplier. I would rather see checkpoints totally disabled by the skull, so that saving and quitting results in the save being at the start of the mission.

I would agree to that if they also included the option to create a checkpoint at any point and time (of course, this too would be disabled by said skull).

> Mythic turned out to be a frag-fest joke.

When I tested some of the CE levels, I found that most of my preferences were intact. I could still sneak up on that patrolling Stealth Elite. I could still assassinate Elites if they were busy pointing or being surprised. And I could have gone kung fu crazy on those Goldies on T&R if it weren’t for the Grunts and Jackals.

I find that CE actually works well with Black Eye skull.

But the lack of Covenant weapons and grenades made it a real drag in most cases.

10

> > > > I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.
> > >
> > > I agree with that, hunting for the skulls in Halo 3 and CEA was a blast! I’m still quite proud of finding IWHBYD without a guide in 3.
> >
> > I prefer halo 2s skull system. It encouraged exploration of maps, to find new and interesting skulls because you didnt have a skull menu to know how many skulls there were…
>
> I didn’t like that you had to go pick them up every time you wanted them active. Doing something like Mythic would take you an hour just to set up.

See, but then they could set it up so that when you had picked up every skull once, the skull menu was onlocked. Therefore they would have promoted map expolration AND made mythic easy once the map exploration was complete…

11

> > having skulls that provide an advantage…
>
> Imo, it’s alright for a skull to have an advantage provided that it has appropriate disadvantages to balance it. For instance, Sputnik. Advantages include accessing higher locations and turning enemies around by meleeing them. Disadvantages include cover being blown away, scenery items becoming death traps, gun fire flipping your vehicle. In exchange for expanding your playing field, the default one becomes much more dangerous.
>
>
>
> > At the very least, I pray you separate detrimental and advantageous skulls clearly, or perhaps implement a separate interface for advantageous effects entirely.
>
> I think difficulty (gold) and fun (silver) are not enough. I would like to see an expansion on skull categories, particularly AI. So far, AI skulls just affect probability (Catch, Tough Luck) and durability (Thunderstorm, Tilt, Mythic). I’d like to see ones that affect the AI itself, such as burst duration, which was quite distinctive in CE. Catch was fun at first but now it’s just sad seeing AI throw grenades recklessly with excessive friendly fire (and even interfering with scripting at times, such as the Pelican at the end of S117 and the Falcon on TotS). Likewise, Tough Luck, already adding to the absurd response to grenades (in H3) and eyes-in-the-back-of-the-head response to needle rifle fire.
>
>
>
> > Third, with the Iron Skull, should it make the cut (and I sincerely hope it does!) I would like to see its effects altered to completely remove checkpoints when active, at least while playing solo. As it stands, the Iron Skull in solo can be circumvented by saving and quitting, making the skull essentially a free point multiplier. I would rather see checkpoints totally disabled by the skull, so that saving and quitting results in the save being at the start of the mission.
>
> I would agree to that if they also included the option to create a checkpoint at any point and time (of course, this too would be disabled by said skull).
>
>
>
> > Mythic turned out to be a frag-fest joke.
>
> When I tested some of the CE levels, I found that most of my preferences were intact. I could still sneak up on that patrolling Stealth Elite. I could still assassinate Elites if they were busy pointing or being surprised. And I could have gone kung fu crazy on those Goldies on T&R if it weren’t for the Grunts and Jackals.
>
> I find that CE actually works well with Black Eye skull.
>
> But the lack of Covenant weapons and grenades made it a real drag in most cases.

You certainly have some interesting ideas regarding the skulls. The reason I want a clear distinction between advantageous and disadvantageous effects is because it makes the tuning control that much more refined. For example, let’s say you want to play around with Sputnik’s increased jump height, but you’d rather not have vehicles get thrown around by everything and anything that touches them. You could very tightly tune the settings of the game to the experience you really want. Kind of like we have in Custom games where you can modify everything from jump height and gravity, to weapon loadouts and vehicle sets.

The other advantage to separating by advantage/disadvantage is that it removes ambiguity when defining what the “hardest possible settings” would be. There was a lot of debate around the Grunt Funeral skull in the Mythic community because it made one headshot enough to kill whole groups of enemies, but it also made CQC with grunts a lethal affair.

In CEA, the skulls worked for it in the sense that it was fun and didn’t forbid whatever strategies you may or may not have had. However, with skulls like Bandana, even if you can’t use covenant weapons or guns due to Foreign, there’s no ammo conservation, or really any need for ammo at all since you can just frag-nuke everything in your path and then walk on through. While that’s fun for awhile, it really detracts from the challenging aspect of the skulls.

> > > > > I would LOVE if skulls return. It would be great if they were hidden throughout the campaign again, too.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with that, hunting for the skulls in Halo 3 and CEA was a blast! I’m still quite proud of finding IWHBYD without a guide in 3.
> > >
> > > I prefer halo 2s skull system. It encouraged exploration of maps, to find new and interesting skulls because you didnt have a skull menu to know how many skulls there were…
> >
> > I didn’t like that you had to go pick them up every time you wanted them active. Doing something like Mythic would take you an hour just to set up.
>
> See, but then they could set it up so that when you had picked up every skull once, the skull menu was onlocked. Therefore they would have promoted map expolration AND made mythic easy once the map exploration was complete…

Oh, so you’re advocating Halo 3’s system. I definitely support that!

12

if u dont have a 2.0 ur bad

This sentence marks the end of the use of sarcasm in my post.

13

> if u dont have a 2.0 ur bad
>
>
>
> This sentence marks the end of the use of sarcasm in my post.

Guess it’s a good thing I have nearly a 30 then. :wink:

I see what you did there.

14

> You certainly have some interesting ideas regarding the skulls.

Well I did want AI modifying skulls in CEA.

> The reason I want a clear distinction between advantageous and disadvantageous effects is because it makes the tuning control that much more refined. For example, let’s say you want to play around with Sputnik’s increased jump height, but you’d rather not have vehicles get thrown around by everything and anything that touches them. You could very tightly tune the settings of the game to the experience you really want. Kind of like we have in Custom games where you can modify everything from jump height and gravity, to weapon loadouts and vehicle sets.

That would be great. A poor camo version of Envy would be good to have when you want to avoid the lower ranked enemies but have a hard time getting past Elites and Hunters. Likewise, a poor camo version of Assassins would be great when you want reduced contribution from marines but don’t want your weapons (i.e. plasma pistol overcharge, needler) to stop working against the cloaked enemies.

> The other advantage to separating by advantage/disadvantage is that it removes ambiguity when defining what the “hardest possible settings” would be. There was a lot of debate around the Grunt Funeral skull in the Mythic community because it made one headshot enough to kill whole groups of enemies, but it also made CQC with grunts a lethal affair.

True.

> In CEA, the skulls worked for it in the sense that it was fun and didn’t forbid whatever strategies you may or may not have had. However, with skulls like Bandana, even if you can’t use covenant weapons or guns due to Foreign, there’s no ammo conservation, or really any need for ammo at all since you can just frag-nuke everything in your path and then walk on through. While that’s fun for awhile, it really detracts from the challenging aspect of the skulls.

Agreed.

I think skulls like Foreign should never exist.

Bandanna on the other hand could have had time based grenade regeneration.

Recession could have had reduced the heat produced from a battery weapon reducing the likelihood of overheating. For human weapons, it could give them faster reload as the rocket launcher and sniper rifle both are severely nerfed due to the skull. I think these changes should have been included because the reload times aren’t adjusted in accordance to the clip size change.

15

> I think skulls like Foreign should never exist.

Amen.

> Bandanna on the other hand could have had time based grenade regeneration.
>
> Recession could have had reduced the heat produced from a battery weapon reducing the likelihood of overheating. For human weapons, it could give them faster reload as the rocket launcher and sniper rifle both are severely nerfed due to the skull. I think these changes should have been included because the reload times aren’t adjusted in accordance to the clip size change.

Those would have been nice balance modifications, though even with reduced rate of regeneration, I feel Bandanna is still a “fun” effect, and not really a “skull” effect.