Skillful movement in H5

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

This is NOT another thread about Sprint – so please keep that trench warfare out of this thread, thank you!

H5 is (re-)introducing a lot of abilities that more or less directly tie into the mobility/movement system. With these abilities comes a new challenge: After many many years of basically the same dance in combat we have to rethink how to approach certain situations.

My impression from the Beta was that I was still thinking and operating like I did in the past. I took a whole while until I started to integrate the new mechanics into my game.
At the end of the Beta I started to realize that I only scratched the surface.

This thread is about your experiences, your tips and tricks and your cool media.

I’ll start with this excellent montage that shows some pretty neat usages of the new abilities:
Link Beta montage

You can also check these two GIFs that show how a thrust at the right time can drive a swordsman crazy:
GIF 1
GIF 2

My general tips:

Sprint: DO NOT OVERUSE! The biggest mistake with Sprint is that you spam it without thinking which more than often doesn’t end well. That short delay until you can use your weapon again is a disadvantage versus a player that sees you at the same time but isn’t sprinting. Keep in mind that in that transition phase it’s also a little harder to aim as your cross-hair isn’t the same while in Sprint. That blur while running also reduces your situational awareness.
But it’s also dangerous to blindly run into enemy’s territory (which doesn’t happen so easily if you’re moving at a lower speed) to get yourself killed. If you take fire think about sprinting away twice – often a good thrust does the job better and you’re not risking that three second shield recharge delay.
Remember: According to 343i base speed will be higher and top Sprint speed will be reduced – which will make good use of Sprint even more important.

Thrust: As you’ve seen in the above video there a lot of creative possibilities with Thrust. Sudden changes of direction, throwing of your enemy’s aim, feints and of course the ability to get out of trouble – the best players in H5 will master the art of the thrust.
Play with people’s expectations: Thrusting in the opposite direction or jump and thrust when someone goes around a corner to suddenly ‘disappear’.
Of course there is that combination of Sprint + Thrust + Clamber / crouch jump – which should open up the maps for unexpected jumps in the future.

Slide: Probably the most underused ability in the Beta. It’s still up in the air whether or not a good use will be of real advantage however reducing your size and making it harder to anticipate where to aim sounds really good. I think we’ll see much more of slide as time passes – as this mechanic is still very unfamiliar but that could change in the future.

Shoulder dash: The above video shows a group of players using this ability in tandem which looked pretty nasty. Aside from that it needs good timing and probably lots of training to make good use of the ability. As there is a big trade-off (if you miss you’re completely open to damage) we have to learn in which situations shoulder dash is a worthwhile option. I had a feeling that lots of people played it too safe in the Beta.

Ground pound: As most of you experienced yourself Ground pound is quite hard to use and only makes sense in certain situations. However in the right hands it can be a powerful ability. I’m really curious if there will be other uses for it (e.g. quick descent).

#2

Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.

#3

You have my like, because I totaly agree with you

#4

> 2535438961934440;2:
> Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.

Fantastic… just posted my thread… and you read it within 1 minute!

#5

> 2533274793332039;4:
> > 2535438961934440;2:
> > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
>
>
> Fantastic… just posted my thread… and you read it within 1 minute!

Is it supposed to take more than 1 minute to read that?

#6

> 2535438961934440;5:
> > 2533274793332039;4:
> > > 2535438961934440;2:
> > > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
> >
> >
> > Fantastic… just posted my thread… and you read it within 1 minute!
>
>
> Is it supposed to take more than 1 minute to read that?

Let’s just put it this way… that time combined with your response is… pretty telling.

But let’s leave it at that.

#7

Check this out. Used a Thruster to get dodge a Ground Pound, then saw another guy on my motion tracker and lured him around a corner right into my Ground Pound.

Here’s another of me chasing a guy down and using Charge to bash him into a corner before killing him, then dodging another guy’s Charge with my Thruster and killing him as well.

It’s really interesting the way that you can combine your own abilities with each other or with enemy abilities to create some awesome combat scenarios. Also, I noticed that you can get an increased distance out of a sprint jump if you use Charge at the end instead of Thruster, which is helpful for making some jumps you wouldn’t be able to otherwise.

#8

> 2533274810150284;7:
> Check this out. Used a Thruster to get dodge a Ground Pound, then saw another guy on my motion tracker and lured him around a corner right into my Ground Pound.
>
> Here’s another of me chasing a guy down and using Charge to bash him into a corner before killing him, then dodging another guy’s Charge with my Thruster and killing him as well.
>
> It’s really interesting the way that you can combine your own abilities with each other or with enemy abilities to create some awesome combat scenarios. Also, I noticed that you can get an increased distance out of a sprint jump if you use Charge at the end instead of Thruster, which is helpful for making some jumps you wouldn’t be able to otherwise.

Pretty decent… should have experimented with the abilities more!

That sprint jump + charge is a pretty interesting idea too…

Can’t wait to see what people will achieve in a year! :slight_smile:

#9

All these motion mechanics are starting to turn this game into a ballet. I’m not trying to judge as I say that - I’m still really looking forward to the game - but it seems to me that the bar has just been raised quite a bit higher than it ever was before. And if people thought that BR and sprint broke the golden triangle? These motion mechanics are essentially putting it into a car crusher and turning it into beer cans.

#10

> 2533274873843883;9:
> All these motion mechanics are starting to turn this game into a ballet. I’m not trying to judge as I say that - I’m still really looking forward to the game - but it seems to me that the bar has just been raised quite a bit higher than it ever was before. And if people thought that BR and sprint broke the golden triangle? These motion mechanics are essentially putting it into a car crusher and turning it into beer cans.

Yeah, but that’s exatly what excites me…

Just think about it: How many times did we have that classic Halo ‘dance’ in combat - strafing, shooting, a grenade at the right time.
Don’t get me wrong, I still love that - but after thousands of thousands of such encounters it’s getting too familiar.

H5 plays with your expectations in that regard. Have a sword? You ambush someone that is going around a corner. That kill isn’t guaranteed anymore!
That -Yoink- thrusts away just as your sword is reaching him.

I think H5 will be a pretty difficult game to master. Especially with the enhanced base speed it’s going to be the fastest moving Halo game to date. With Sprint and Thrust and Slide both your aim and your reaction time have to be pretty good. The controls alone are pretty complex - it makes me feel good that I have some much more to explore.
And I like the creativity that comes with Thrust - it reminds me of grenades in a way… thinking in advance, fooling your opponent etc.

#11

I’m hoping slide is a lot better in the full game I think it’s going to become a common tactic to use it with the shotgun though only makes sense.

#12

> 2533274793332039;1:
> This is NOT another thread about Sprint – so please keep that trench warfare out of this thread, thank you!
>
> H5 is (re-)introducing a lot of abilities that more or less directly tie into the mobility/movement system. With these abilities comes a new challenge: After many many years of basically the same dance in combat we have to rethink how to approach certain situations.
>
> My impression from the Beta was that I was still thinking and operating like I did in the past. I took a whole while until I started to integrate the new mechanics into my game.
> At the end of the Beta I started to realize that I only scratched the surface.
>
> This thread is about your experiences, your tips and tricks and your cool media.
>
> I’ll start with this excellent montage that shows some pretty neat usages of the new abilities:
> Link Beta montage
>
> You can also check these two GIFs that show how a thrust at the right time can drive a swordsman crazy:
> GIF 1
> GIF 2
>
> My general tips:
>
> Sprint: DO NOT OVERUSE! The biggest mistake with Sprint is that you spam it without thinking which more than often doesn’t end well. That short delay until you can use your weapon again is a disadvantage versus a player that sees you at the same time but isn’t sprinting. Keep in mind that in that transition phase it’s also a little harder to aim as your cross-hair isn’t the same while in Sprint. That blur while running also reduces your situational awareness.
> But it’s also dangerous to blindly run into enemy’s territory (which doesn’t happen so easily if you’re moving at a lower speed) to get yourself killed. If you take fire think about sprinting away twice – often a good thrust does the job better and you’re not risking that three second shield recharge delay.
> Remember: According to 343i base speed will be higher and top Sprint speed will be reduced – which will make good use of Sprint even more important.
>
> Thrust: As you’ve seen in the above video there a lot of creative possibilities with Thrust. Sudden changes of direction, throwing of your enemy’s target, feints and of course the ability to get out of trouble – the best players in H5 will master the art of the thrust.
> Play with people’s expectations: Thrusting in the opposite direction or jump and thrust when someone goes around a corner to suddenly ‘disappear’.
> Of course there is that combination of Sprint + Thrust + Clamber / crouch jump – which should open up the maps for unexpected jumps in the future.
>
> Slide: Probably the most underused ability in the Beta. It’s still up in the air whether or not a good use will be of real advantage however reducing your size and making it harder to anticipate where to aim sounds really good. I think we’ll see much more of slide as time passes – as this mechanic is still very unfamiliar but that could change in the future.
>
> Shoulder dash: The above video shows a group of players using this ability in tandem which looked pretty nasty. Aside from that it needs good timing and probably lots of training to make good use of the ability. As there is a big trade-off (if you miss you’re completely open to damage) we have to learn in which situations shoulder dash is a worthwhile option. I had a feeling that lots of people played it too safe in the Beta.
>
> Ground pound: As most of you experienced yourself Ground pound is quite hard to use and only makes sense in certain situations. However in the right hands it can be a powerful ability. I’m really curious if there will be other uses for it (e.g. quick descent).

Good jöb explainin man

#13

The new abilities allow for skill jump combos. On Truth, when I’m trying to get a high platform, I thrust, stabilize to go a bit higher, and clamber up the platform. It’s pretty cool.

#14

> 2535438961934440;2:
> Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.

Yep. Awareness and great map movement are no longer required. Sad, really.

#15

> 2717573882290994;14:
> > 2535438961934440;2:
> > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
>
>
> Yep. Awareness and great map movement are no longer required. Sad, really.

Is that a joke? I can’t tell O.o…
there are more movement options and possibilies than any other halo. Now you you have to be aware of a lot more than that one couch jump.

How could movement abilities remove map movement lol.

#16

> 2533274835305187;15:
> > 2717573882290994;14:
> > > 2535438961934440;2:
> > > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
> >
> >
> > Yep. Awareness and great map movement are no longer required. Sad, really.
>
>
> Is that a joke? I can’t tell O.o…
> there are more movement options and possibilies than any other halo. Now you you have to be aware of a lot more than that one couch jump.
>
> How could movement abilities remove map movement lol.

When you can negate bad movement decisions there is less emphasis and thought put into situational awareness and map movement decisions. It’s too easy to back out of bad decisions with all of these movement options.

#17

My goodness, those clips were fantastic. I cannot wait for halo 5. I am extremely excited about the new movement abilities.

#18

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535438961934440;16:
> > 2533274835305187;15:
> > > 2717573882290994;14:
> > > > 2535438961934440;2:
> > > > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yep. Awareness and great map movement are no longer required. Sad, really.
> >
> >
> > Is that a joke? I can’t tell O.o…
> > there are more movement options and possibilies than any other halo. Now you you have to be aware of a lot more than that one couch jump.
> >
> > How could movement abilities remove map movement lol.
>
>
> When you can negate bad movement decisions there is less emphasis and thought put into situational awareness and map movement decisions. It’s too easy to back out of bad decisions with all of these movement options.

Adapt.

#19

> 2535438961934440;16:
> > 2533274835305187;15:
> > > 2717573882290994;14:
> > > > 2535438961934440;2:
> > > > Its the same as before except now when my spidey senses tingle I can just thruster and sprint away.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yep. Awareness and great map movement are no longer required. Sad, really.
> >
> >
> > Is that a joke? I can’t tell O.o…
> > there are more movement options and possibilies than any other halo. Now you you have to be aware of a lot more than that one couch jump.
> >
> > How could movement abilities remove map movement lol.
>
>
> When you can negate bad movement decisions there is less emphasis and thought put into situational awareness and map movement decisions. It’s too easy to back out of bad decisions with all of these movement options.

Frankly, I don’t think that’s the whole problem with Halo 5. The problem is movement for the sake of movement. Halo 5 may have a ton of movement options, but if a substantial majority of those are trivially simple to execute and blatantly obvious, gameplay depth isn’t increased. If there’s a trick only one out of ten players can do, then that trick has some depth; a learning curve. If everyone can do the trick, then there is no learning curve in it, and therefore there is no depth in it either. Tricks that have depth are meaningful. Tricks that don’t are just tricks for the sake of tricks.

As far as I can tell, I haven’t seen Halo 5 introduce any new meaningful movement options. Thrust allows for some maneuvers that take a bit of skill to execute, but so it did in Halo 4, and so did Evade in Reach. I’ve always sided with the ability because I believe it truly has potential for gameplay, but Halo 5 doesn’t seem to have pulled anything unexpected with it. I mean, the most interesting tricks in the video in the OP were thruster assassinations, which are nothing new, and to be perfectly honest, doing the same without a thruster is possible, and much more difficult.

At the same time, while the movement options don’t particularly add depth, players still have more options than befeore, and there exists such a problem as too much options. It’s partly why map design exists: to restrict players. Every time there are only two entrances into a room instead of three, it’s to not give the player too much options. Every time the player can’t jump over a wall, it’s to not give them too much options. When you give players a lot of freedom over their movement without demanding something from them in return, you’re just giving them unnecessary options.

At this point we get into what you’re talking about. When players have a lot of options, the concept of “bad position” becomes less prevalent. People have more ways to escape bad situations, which naturally makes escaping them easier, and so there are less situations which are genuinely bad. Too little bad choices, and which choice you make becomes less meaningful, because the wrong choice is less likely to put you in a bad situation. Meanwhile, if there are too many routes for players, there might be too many for one team to control effectively. When no one can really be in control of the map, the strategy that revolves around map control is decreased.

There are plenty of reasons why giving players too much control over their movement can be bad for gameplay. To dig the creativity out of players, you need to restrict them a little.

#20

> 2533274793332039;8:
> > 2533274810150284;7:
> > Check this out. Used a Thruster to get dodge a Ground Pound, then saw another guy on my motion tracker and lured him around a corner right into my Ground Pound.
> >
> > Here’s another of me chasing a guy down and using Charge to bash him into a corner before killing him, then dodging another guy’s Charge with my Thruster and killing him as well.
> >
> > It’s really interesting the way that you can combine your own abilities with each other or with enemy abilities to create some awesome combat scenarios. Also, I noticed that you can get an increased distance out of a sprint jump if you use Charge at the end instead of Thruster, which is helpful for making some jumps you wouldn’t be able to otherwise.
>
>
> Pretty decent… should have experimented with the abilities more!
>
> That sprint jump + charge is a pretty interesting idea too…
>
> Can’t wait to see what people will achieve in a year! :slight_smile:

Have a third. This one starts with me dropping the ball and dying, then coming back with a Charge to push a guy off the map for the final kill. This isn’t something I would normally consider very awesome, but the fact that it was the final kill made me laugh.

Ground Pound can be used from a high elevation to quickly drop into a more covered area. You kind of see that technique in the video, although that was just for fun. It worked really well on Truth to get from the top level to the bottom, but land under in one of the covered rooms on the bottom level to avoid as much fire as possible.