Skilled based blah blah blah

So if this runs on skill based matchmaking then I do I get paired with absolute trash teammates? This game every time I boot it up to maybe enjoy it it’s just a complete disappointment.

It’s trying to get you to win around 50% of the time, or forcing an equitable outcome. It if was truly skills-based and fair, it would set up like players to battle one another instead of pairing up teams that have a 50/50 chance to win.

This means if you’re good, you get weighed down by trash, if you’re trash you’re constantly paired up with people who outclass you.

I had my wife play my account for a while and she kept getting paired up with better and better people while she proportionately weighed the team down.

Likewise, when I started playing my account again, I was paired up with teammates and enemies that were severely wasted by me (and I suck compared to normal standards).

Real fairness has to do with combatants and teammates of similar skills competing, not a programmer attempting to get a desired “outcome”. The premise that truskill 2.0 is based on is fundamentally flawed.


They have a forced 50/50 win/loss metric setup on social.

So it matches your skill with garbage players to even out the games.


As long as you give the AI full control of picking your teammates for you there will always be a big chance that you’ll get bad teammates. Because there is only so much an AI can do when it comes to picking players to pair up with one another.

The only good solution is to start picking your own teammates yourself.

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That’s just what happens.

Sometimes you get good team-mates. Sometimes bad.

Sometimes you get to play a team that gels. Sometimes you play a team who just can’t get it together.

Sometimes you are the good team mate. Sometimes you are the bad one.

In most cases, if you troll through your game history, you’ll find it pretty much evens out.

It’s just that the losses where you felt you played well hurt the most.

But isn’t this what people want when they ask for “loose” SBMM.

Matching around the team as opposed to tightly on the player.

And the only alternative to that is tightly matching on your skill. Which is essentially the SBMM used in ranked!

So… You briefly Smurfed your account. What were you expecting to happen?

I’m not 100% against you. I don’t think super loose team matching works that well.

But I’m not sure what you are asking for here… except for Social to play like Ranked?

And just out of interest… how does the way SBMM is applied reflect in anyway on the accuracy of TrueSkill? What you are having issues with is the match maker. Not the rank assessment.

What they have is a system that tries to produce fun, competitive games. Where both teams have the chance of winning.

The by-product of that is a 50:50 win rate.

Checking HaloTracker and you are a high Diamond slash Onyx level player. That puts you in the top 3 to 5% of players. Chances are you are going to be the best player on your team in most games. Take it as a complement and try to work with those “garbage” players. They are just trying to have fun as well.


I find it interesting that you’re basically the only one on here repeatedly defending the matchmaking system.

Maybe at some point you, and 343, will realize that even if it works the way it is supposed to, it doesn’t actually work for the game because everyone hates it.


It’s a lonely job… but someone has to do it.

I think it’s one of those classic vocal minority things.

Most people are happy to play the game and have fun. They are happy with evenly matched teams. Close games.

Not everyone needs one sided matches to have fun.

A small proportion of the community is particularly upset about something so they tend to complain loudly and bitterly about it. And then we have the soap box of prominent streamers who have a vested interest in being able to dominate games and produce content.

I may be the only one defending it… but I’d wager there are bucket loads out there who are obliviously happy with the status quo.

In my Halo group alone there are 10 or so others - none of whom want SBMM taken away. Most of them didn’t even know it was an issue.

It was funny… I was watching a prominent streamer only yesterday (quite enjoy his stuff). But he was making a comment about how he hoped SBMM would be toned down in the next drop pod. In the background was a video of him popping off a trademark kill streak. I googled some of his hapless opponents; nothing but a bunch of golds and low platinums… compared to his (presumably) Onyx status.



Well I can do spectacular until I get up against sweats who seem like they have laser point precision and rapid fire. There are times I feel like I get dropped with two pistol shots.

I guess they are retaining tons of players by implementing SBMM the way they have. /s

It could also be argued that most people are not “happy to play the game” and just stopped playing.

And most of the people in my Halo group have quit playing primarily because of this issue. I am the only one left who actually plays it regularly and I don’t play it nearly as much as I used to because I don’t really enjoy playing by myself. Maybe I just need more friends.

The thing that hooked me on Halo 15 years ago was that you could play with your friends. It didn’t matter how good or bad you were. You could all party up and have a blast playing together. But sadly, in Halo Infinite, the SBMM in this game is one of many things that have made the social playlists very anti-social. Basically, if we have one Onyx player in our group, the SBMM ruins the game for all of us.

You seem to like to look at win rates to show that the system is working as intended. But for myself, I often find games that I am on the losing team to have been more enjoyable to play than other games that I have been on the winning team. I don’t enjoy when the game decides that I haven’t won enough so it throws me 3 teammates that all go 16 and 4 while I eke out a 2-17 just so the game can say that I won so I must have enjoyed it. Obviously I’m exaggerating but that is how the SBMM in this game feels at times.

I am not one who thinks we should get rid of SBMM but I do think it isn’t working for many people and it could be implemented better. Especially if you actually want to make the social playlists social again.

The difference in the SBMM is the primary reason we play MCC and not Infinite.


It could be argued that people are leaving in droves for a multitude of other reasons (sigh, 343, sigh)… and that SBMM has at least helped to retain some of what is left.

Different strokes.

I regularly play with two Onyx level players.

I have to play to survive - but I still manage to have a lot of fun.

I certainly prefer a closely tussled loss to a stomping win (borefest).

I’ve played a bunch of Social in the last two weeks. More so than at any time for Infinite. I wanted Clippy and that Orange coating. And honestly I had a ball. I don’t think there was any game that felt super unbalanced. There were a couple were I felt like the odd player out - but overall it was great.

Some bad pings of course. Population is a bit low. Especially past 10pm.

I couldn’t tell you my W/L rate - because I didn’t really care. And I think that was the key. I can’t recall a game where I thought - wow, we didn’t have a chance there.

I honestly think it’s just a mindset.

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Dude, you and your opinions sus as hell :rofl:


It is said by learned discourse we may rise above the savage and closer to God.

You’re not helping.

Only players with suck kd would think sbmm is good.

Try getting a better kd & see how the MM works then, when its palming you of with afk players & players worse than bots every game to try balance a 50% win or even better at certain times of the day unable to match into a game.

If you think sbmm has helped retain players you are sorely deluded, its only driven good players with passion for gaming away & left the dregs.


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What’s also an issue is that, a vast majority of my losses are due to the fact that I didn’t carry hard enough. My win rate being above 51%, this game is constantly fighting to take me down to 50%.

The odds I win a game and it wasn’t due to me is very low. The odds I lose a game and it’s because I didn’t do good enough is very high. I’m tired of being the guy who carries the match. My teammates are almost always dragging me down because I happen to be better than most people. I shouldn’t be teamed with people who go 5 - 20, EVER.

I’ve NEVER played that bad in my life. It’s unacceptable that I’m paired with people who seem like they don’t have hands just to artificially make it harder for ME to win the game for them.

The only alternative is to just not care and be stomped over and over again until the game stops thinking I’m a savant that’s able to carry three other mediocre players.


Rule #7 in Darwi’s handbook of Happy Halo; Be wary of players with a high KD. They rarely make good team mates.

7a; Especially be wary of anyone who covets or openly brags about their KD.

7b; And definitely stay away from the toxic types who ridicule other’s for their KD.

You are complaining about the quality of your team-mates. With no concession or empathy that they may in fact be playing their little hearts out. Not the AFK ones though, obviously, they need to rot in -yoink-.

But if we tighten the SBMM and give you better team-mates you then complain that it’s too sweaty and you may as well play ranked.

What you are actually complaining about is that you don’t like playing with -yoink- players against a team where you have to actually do some work.

What you really want is the good players on the other team taken away.

You would probably like the rubbish players on your team then - they wouldn’t be interrupting your kills streaks.

Rock hard evidence says otherwise.

As opposed to anecdotes.

I’m stooking too.

When you party up with player’s of different ability you just have to accept your role.

If I play with my Onyx friends (yes, I do have friends, thanks for asking) I don’t expect to dominate. That would be stupid. If I’m smashing the opponent then they would be bored out of their brains. I accept that I have to play a support role. That my KD may not be great. And that dying a few times less is just as good for the team cause as their killing a few times more.

Embrace the role of the Damage Sponge!

When I play with my Gold friends (see, I have a few) it then becomes my job to John Wick it. And return the favour by protecting them.

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That’s a very self centred view.

As the better player you have to carry. But the lesser players also have to support.

Losing is a team effort.


You just naturally fall into a 50% win rate.

Again. Very ego-centric here.

I’ve had games with my Onyx mates where they have blitz us to a win. But also one’s where I’ve played above my station (but not necessarily positive on the scoreboard). And the opposite has held true in a loss.

It is a team game.

It must be hard being so good.

The looser we make the SBMM the bigger the gaps.

Again. Very ego centric.

5-20 isn’t a good look. But if their expected score was 4-22 then they have contributed to the game as much, or even more, than you have.

It’s all relative.

So what you want is to for them to go positive as well. Which is great. You really don’t have to sweat when you win the game 50-0.

A bizarre way to think about it.

Not exactly sure what you want.

The endpoint of all the good players going around thrashing people until they quit is that they will be the only ones left. And then they will whinge about having to play each other anyway.


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Spelling and speaking stook instead of stuck is an accent and regional difference.

I’d like to also mention that your perspective on SBMM is completely wrong. The reason It’s an issue in Halo Infinite is because it doesn’t match people at the same skill level, clearly. It matches people to win or lose to keep a 50% win rate. That’s IT.

The game puts you against people that will work in favor of is pre-determined outcome of whether you win or lose. It also takes into account how well you perform while it tries to make you win or lose. Essentially, I could actually be the worst player in this game and eventually I’d be matched with people who are forced to carry me to a victory so that he win rate increases.

Winrate is the ultimate goal, which is bogus. Winrate should reflect skill. Winrate currently means nothing.


I understand your point, but it becomes a stressful and unfun game for me to constantly have to carry teammates.

You understand it, when paired with lower skilled players not only do you need to carry them, you are constantly outnumbered taking on 2 or 3 because your team mates are waiting to respawn.

It becomes very unfun fast.