Skill gap, and you.

Games Other Halo
1

TLDR: what are some good ways to add skill gap to Halo 4? skill gap is massively important if this game is to truly do well, and be well received.

let me first say that skill gap is what made myself, and many others, fall in love with halo in the first place. without the massive skill gap halo would have been a ‘shiny new game’ for some time, but it wouldnt have made a lasting impression like it did. halos 1 and 2 had the skill gap required to keep me coming for more of that PURE adrenaline PURE halo gameplay that i will likely never experience again.

but why is that? i feel this way because of the direction bungie took halo, the direction halo still seems to be going in, to this day.

skill gap is old news, apparently. its never been that people didnt like it, games simply didnt do a good enough job of pairing like-skilled people together to make it worthwhile. having skill gap is fine and dandy, but if the game pairs pros against noobs all the time, the noobs will leave to play call of duty more than they already do (lol).

what we need is a 180 degree turn AWAY from casual-gimmick-land and TOWARDS logical / intuitive / skill-rewarding mechanics.

if halo 4 has a massive amount of skill gap, but all of the mechanics make sense logically, are intuitive, are thoughtful, are straight forward, and are non-contradictory, EVERYONE will benefit. if this skill gap is not paired with a matchmaking system that matches up like-skilled players together semi-accurately, the game will fail. i dont like getting paired up with first week halo players, and they REALLY dont like getting paired up against me.

skill gap is important because humankind naturally strives to master things. when you give someone potential to grow to be 100x better than he currently is, he will FLOURISH. when you reward a players skill-based actions, he will also FLOURISH. when you reward a players superior thinking, he will LOVE YOU for making the game that way.

when you inhibit players ability to dispatch enemies (long kill times of 1.7+ seconds, lack of button combos like double melee, etc.) they will feel neutered if they have experienced halos 1 and 2 in and out and gotten good at them.

when you add gimmicks to the game like armor lock, let people run away with poor implementation of sprint, let people who shoot worse beat people who shoot better with poor bloom algorithms, and break core-game concepts like map control with the implementation of jet pack, you ALIENATE a LOT of the people who were passionate about the game to begin with.

a lot of the people who understand the implications of bad and terrible mechanics will leave halo to seek greener pastures.

ALIENATION of the section of the community that understands 100% of the mechanics, their implications on the game, and can tell you why and how things are better or worse is absolutely NOT the best way to approach Halo 4.

moving forward, if 343 is to truly succeed, and make another GREAT halo game like halos 1 and 2 were, they’ll have to appease everyone. <mark>really what this means is appeasing the people who actually understand how things work in the first place, and why things are better / worse the ways they are. this is because everyone else is irrelevant (sorry, but its true).</mark> this is because if people dont understand the implications of the mechanics on the rest of the game, they wont complain when you change them, and often times, wont even know the difference, or care to begin with.

after all, will someone who doesnt understand how bloom is broken care if you subtly fix it? (assuming they actually know how to shoot in the first place, by not spamming)

so how do we go about this? its easy to say ‘ADD SKILL GAP’ but not give 343 direction. what im hoping to brainstorm with you guys about is how skill gap can be added to Halo 4 without making the game hard, illogical, unintuitive, OR contradictory.

anyone have any ideas on how to add skill gap? i’ll do my best to update my next post to keep a list going of how to add skill gap.

2

list of ideas to increase skill gap:
-dodge melees by crouching.
-double melee button combo for a X% faster melee sequence (BXB).
-‘double shot’ button combo for a 134% (suggested %. in halo 2 it was 200% damage which is prolly a bit too much) more damage per shot (RRX YY).
-dodge sword lunge by strafing to the right with good timing required (last minute).
-block the sword with your fist (doesnt make canonic sense, but adds skill gap nonetheless).
-add a bit more ‘bounce’ to grenades to open up more angles.
-lower grenade blast radius = more skill gap (but be careful because too small radius = useless lol).
-more player speed, but more importantly NO ACCELERATION in movement. you should ALWAYS move at 100% speed, not accelerate up to 100% when you change directions.
-more jump height (and gravity to compensate for this change).
-proper implementation of bloom (the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, spamming loses 100% of the time, and if you are spamming you cant get headshots past even 10% bloom).
-remove melee lunge.
-add ‘hitscan melee’.
-add post-patch halo 3 melee system to reward the player who dealt a significant amount more damage with a kill (it also factored in latency. reach’s title update bleedthru doesnt do EITHER of these things, currently).
-make burst firing better on the AR to encourage the skillful use of it.
-keep kill times fast, but not too fast or it becomes oppressive as far as movement goes. 1.35 to 1.8 seconds is good for a baseline utility weapon. ideally 1.5 seconds, i’d say.
-make ‘slide jumps’ grant you more speed / acceleration, and in doing so, distance in your jumps (buff them, basically)

3

reserved numero dos.

4

What can I say, that was pretty good list. I’d maybe add map design to that. Maps need to support the game mechanics. For example, what use do bouncing grenades have unless you have nice little gaps to throw them in? Or what use does slide jump have unless there are few gaps that you can only get across by slide jumping?

Map design really plays huge role in how the mechanics work. Basically Jetpack would have worked if the maps had been fitting, but the maps would had to be corridor maps with some verticality into them (think Rat Race with more floors). Of course map design wasn’t the worst problem, but basically it plays huge role in how a feature will work.

And map design really needs some more dynamicity to movement options. Mainly this means more jumps on maps. Lockout is a perfect example of how a good Halo map should be, experienced players can basically get from bottom snipe to top snipe by going almost straight up just in few seconds. Jumps have so many possible implementations in Halo, which some of them have only been experiemented briefly. For example, a wall in 60 degree angle could very well be used to extend jumps, they can also be used to seem like they are impossible to jump on top, but with enough speed you could take a good shortcut. Especially good to drop someone chasing you.

Then the next thing is simplicity.

> -proper implementation of bloom (the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, spamming loses 100% of the time, and if you are spamming you cant get headshots past even 10% bloom).

While bloom could be made 100% skill based, it still seems to distract the player too much. Not too many simultaneous task should be forced to the player. When you think about it, the player already needs to concentrate on these things: their movement, opponent movement, their aim, enviromental obstacles, enviromental dangers. Those are the things players need to concentrate on when in a direct fight against single opponent, five things in total. Human mind can concentrate on 5-8 things at most. When you count possible more enemies to that, let’s say two, the situation has exactly seven things. That’s why the situation should be stripped off too many points of concentration that aren’t necessary.

At last, briefly about the movement acceleration. Some amount of it is necessary in order to get a certain level of smoothness. All games usually have at least a very minor amount of it. But basically it should only be used so much that it makes the movement look smooth, not overly big amounts that harm the game.

5

> list of ideas to increase skill gap:
> -dodge melees by crouching.
> -double melee button combo for a X% faster melee sequence (BXB).
> -‘double shot’ button combo for a 134% (suggested %. in halo 2 it was 200% damage which is prolly a bit too much) more damage per shot (RRX YY).
> -dodge sword lunge by strafing to the right with good timing required (last minute).
> -block the sword with your fist (doesnt make canonic sense, but adds skill gap nonetheless).
> -add a bit more ‘bounce’ to grenades to open up more angles.
> -lower grenade blast radius = more skill gap (but be careful because too small radius = useless lol).
> -more player speed, but more importantly NO ACCELERATION in movement. you should ALWAYS move at 100% speed, not accelerate up to 100% when you change directions.
> -more jump height (and gravity to compensate for this change).
> -proper implementation of bloom (the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, spamming loses 100% of the time, and if you are spamming you cant get headshots past even 10% bloom).
> -remove melee lunge.
> -add ‘hitscan melee’.
> -add post-patch halo 3 melee system to reward the player who dealt a significant amount more damage with a kill (it also factored in latency. reach’s title update bleedthru doesnt do EITHER of these things, currently).
> -make burst firing better on the AR to encourage the skillful use of it.
> -keep kill times fast, but not too fast or it becomes oppressive as far as movement goes. 1.35 to 1.8 seconds is good for a baseline utility weapon. ideally 1.5 seconds, i’d say.
> -make ‘slide jumps’ grant you more speed / acceleration, and in doing so, distance in your jumps (buff them, basically)

I agree with some of those points, but you mentioned Bloom.

Bloom might(or might not) be a good concept. Even if Bloom was implemented correctly would it even fit a Halo game?

I know those were just suggestions, but I felt like expressing myself anyway.

6

It would be nice to have the things you put on your list back in Halo, but the competitve community has been asking for these things back in Halo ever since H2 discounting a few things on your list and we have been ignored or we have to scream and kick for a TU to conjure a competitive Halo game. Its not in our control what goes into the game and what changes about the game its up to the developers to give us these simple things that Bungie in recent years for some reason didnt. If H4 is not a good competitve game like HCE or post-patch H2 was out of the box I think that will be the last strike for many players if Reach wasnt that already. Everyone benefits from a competitve Halo game, Halo is a competitve FPS that gets alot of attention from esports and competitve players, Halo is designed and balanced well for competitve gameplay its all there for it to succeed in that reguard if 343i just listens to the community who has been playing the game for 10 years and knows every in and out of the game. They have listened so far and saved Reach for us so I fully support them and think we will get a good competitive Halo game again but if we dont I will not dwell on it again as its getting ridiculous at this point staying on this roller coaster ride.

7

I agree with 98% of this.

All but the re-implementing BXR and Doubleshot.

Even as an Avid halo 2 player (I still play halo 2 on pc) i disagree. And yes i still use the combos when i play, but i still think its better that they are left out.

I would also like to add an increase to weapon switching times, playing halo ce recently made me realize that switching between weapons takes far too much time now.

8

> list of ideas to increase skill gap:
> -dodge melees by crouching.
> -double melee button combo for a X% faster melee sequence (BXB).
> -‘double shot’ button combo for a 134% (suggested %. in halo 2 it was 200% damage which is prolly a bit too much) more damage per shot (RRX YY).
> -dodge sword lunge by strafing to the right with good timing required (last minute).
> -block the sword with your fist (doesnt make canonic sense, but adds skill gap nonetheless).
> -add a bit more ‘bounce’ to grenades to open up more angles.
> -lower grenade blast radius = more skill gap (but be careful because too small radius = useless lol).
> -more player speed, but more importantly NO ACCELERATION in movement. you should ALWAYS move at 100% speed, not accelerate up to 100% when you change directions.
> -more jump height (and gravity to compensate for this change).
> -proper implementation of bloom (the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, spamming loses 100% of the time, and if you are spamming you cant get headshots past even 10% bloom).
> -remove melee lunge.
> -add ‘hitscan melee’.
> -add post-patch halo 3 melee system to reward the player who dealt a significant amount more damage with a kill (it also factored in latency. reach’s title update bleedthru doesnt do EITHER of these things, currently).
> -make burst firing better on the AR to encourage the skillful use of it.
> -keep kill times fast, but not too fast or it becomes oppressive as far as movement goes. 1.35 to 1.8 seconds is good for a baseline utility weapon. ideally 1.5 seconds, i’d say.
> -make ‘slide jumps’ grant you more speed / acceleration, and in doing so, distance in your jumps (buff them, basically)

-Melee dodging is awesome and should make a return
-BxB was awful
-Double shot was just as bad
-I like the idea of a sword dodge
-Please no sword block
-I like bouncy grenades
-I’m for lowered blast radius, hate the mini nukes in Reach
-More player speed makes the gameplay move faster and no acceleration is important to strafe well
-More jump height is awesome
-I don’t want to see any bloom
-Lunge to some degree is important
-Wouldn’t “Hitscan melee” defeat the ability to crouch avoid
-I liked the post patch halo 3 melee system
-The AR needs to be a usable starting weapon
-I’d have to personally test kill times
-I love skill jumping. Maybe add ghost jumps too, ect

I have to agree with most of your points.

9

thanks for all the feedback guys.

question: why dont you guys like the BXB? (people who said they didnt like it)

my theory is it was because of its too fast nature in halos 2 and 3. in halo 4 it would be a lot slower, as suggested, just fast enough for someone who BXB’d to be able to beat someone who didnt, provided they both started the first melee at the same time.

the BXB really isnt that hard to pull off, either, and doing it successfully is very rewarding.

10

> thanks for all the feedback guys.
>
> question: why dont you guys like the BXB? (people who said they didnt like it)
>
> my theory is it was because of its too fast nature in halos 2 and 3. in halo 4 it would be a lot slower, as suggested, just fast enough for someone who BXB’d to be able to beat someone who didnt, provided they both started the first melee at the same time.
>
> the BXB really isnt that hard to pull off, either, and doing it successfully is very rewarding.

I like BXB, or BXR!

11

> list of ideas to increase skill gap:
> -dodge melees by crouching.
>
> -double melee button combo for a X% faster melee sequence (BXB).
>
> -‘double shot’ button combo for a 134% (suggested %. in halo 2 it was 200% damage which is prolly a bit too much) more damage per shot (RRX YY).
>
> -dodge sword lunge by strafing to the right with good timing required (last minute).
>
> -add a bit more ‘bounce’ to grenades to open up more angles.
>
> -more jump height (and gravity to compensate for this change).
>
> -make ‘slide jumps’ grant you more speed / acceleration, and in doing so, distance in your jumps (buff them, basically)

The above I don’t have a problem with, but the bellow…

> -block the sword with your fist (doesnt make canonic sense, but adds skill gap nonetheless).

No. Absolutely not. If sword dodging was to be implemented into the game that’s more than enough. If we start having too many counters to a particular weapon that weapon starts to become undesirable.

Unlike a sword dodge this “sword block” punishes the sword wielder for no good reason; it punishes him for using the sword correctly. The sword dodge only occurs when a sword wielder relies too much on the sword’s lung function; when he doesn’t manually track his targets and instead leaves it up to the lunge. This is why sword dodging isn’t “cheap”, but sword block is.

> -lower grenade blast radius = more skill gap (but be careful because too small radius = useless lol).

Faster movement speed + higher jump height + smaller grenade blast radius = useless grenades.

Grenades aren’t meant to be a highly ‘skillful’ weapon. When you start nerfing them to kingdom come (ala, Halo 3) they mainly become an assist weapon. That’s not the role the grenade should be serving. I much preferred it in Halo 1/2 when you could hold a total of 8 nades (4 plasmas and 4 frags). The high grenade count per player and their relatively large blast radius led them to being highly effective at stopping reckless pushes. You could totally change the flow of the game by spamming certain routes with nades. This just lead to a far more interesting game, imo. The high count and blast radius was also good for stopping people camping in rooms, helping the maps flow better.

> but more importantly NO ACCELERATION in movement. you should ALWAYS move at 100% speed, not accelerate up to 100% when you change directions.

Every game has movement acceleration. Well, maybe the early 2D games didn’t… what you want is a shorter time between being stationary and reaching max speed; you want more acceleration. If an object accelerates at 2 m/s/s and it’s max speed is 20 m/s it’ll take 10 seconds to reach that top speed, but if that object was able to accelerate at 10 m/s/s it’ll only take 2 seconds. ;]

Having no acceleration at all would lead to a very frustrating console shooter I’d imagine.

> -proper implementation of bloom (the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, spamming loses 100% of the time, and if you are spamming you cant get headshots past even 10% bloom).

> MFW

Bloom adds nothing, and I mean nothing, but randomness to the game. Every fight leaves leave you unsatisfied and thinking did he get lucky?

It’s detrimental to the flow of the game as more players spend their time crouching behind low cover firing to get an added accuracy boost (if it’s like Reach); a sort of camping as far as I’m concerned. They should be moving about, not hiding, crouched with just their heads sticking out.

Sure, you can keep adding mechanics to make the game more complex and thus more “skillful” but there comes a point where it just stops being fun. Quake’s one of the most competitive FPSs around and its mechanics are bloody simple. The complexity and challenge comes from the players and how they use the simple mechanics. The simpler the mechanic the more rewarding it feels to do multiple things with it. Ala, Quake’s rockets can be used for killing, blocking routes, increasing your speed and height. Four “mechanics” stem from one simple one, making the rocket launcher feel like a very rewarding weapon.

Complexity in game mechanics and the added skill it brings does not always = good. Just sayin’.

> -make burst firing better on the AR to encourage the skillful use of it.

Better yet just make the AR weak, but accurate.