Skill Based Matchmaking In Social Needs To Go

This probably has been said before but it is worth repeating.

SBMM in social playlists takes most of the fun out of playing social. I’m a social player who plays Halo for fun and to relax, but the current social playlists feel like ranked playlists most of the time. In particular, it has made playing Infinite with my brother (who is an Onyx level player) a chore, as BTB and social slayer feel like Onyx level ranked matches.

The only search criteria in social should be connection quality. I can see the argument for some degree of party matching in social playlists, (4’s with 4’s) but social SBMM (and team balancing for that matter) needs to go. Let ranked be ranked and social be social.

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No it doesn’t.

SBMM creates an equal playing field for everyone to have fun.

“Random” matchmaking just feeds good players killing streaks. If you are Onyx then more than 9/10 of your ‘random’ opponents will be lower than you. The team you play against will be an average of G6/P1.

The answer is tight SBMM on the player for Ranked… and looser SBMM on the team for Social (across a wider range of ranks). That way everyone has a chance to have fun.

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I can’t really see any real benefits from this at all. SBMM is suppose to attempt to keep the playing field fair. Removing it would more or less just make everything random and chaotic. One match you might fight the easist team possible with okish teammates, the next you might be the only one on your team that can even get a kill as the other team curb stomps you the entire match.

I believe what you want is a server browser for community hosted games instead.

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And the thing is that this some good / some bad balance only works out for average players.

For good players - it’s all good / rarely bad.

And for bad players - it’s rarely good / always bad.

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Sounds pretty destructive towards getting new people into the game. Since they won’t have opponets more on their level so they can get used to how the game plays out and have a fairly high chance of getting destroyed every match by better players instead.

More incentive for those bad players to stop sucking so bad lol. Why baby them with sbmm? If you suck, get good yano?

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Definitely. They mentioned on the old waypoint that SBMM increased player retention by 20-30% (I can’t remember the exact figure).

If you are on the left hand side of the skill curve then “random” is pretty much a one way ticket to being streamed on someone’s 24hr killpocalypse feed.

Or, we could, you know… welcome them into the Halo family. Nurture them and allow them to improve at a more natural rate. Try and keep them coming back long-term.

As opposed to a good old fashioned bullying.

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With that remark you prove 2 things:

  • That you don’t know anything about how learning works
  • That you need to learn some social skills.
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We got to stop treating people like they’re inept and twisting normal video game occurrences into acts of bullying. I played plenty of Halo 2-reach where matchmaking seemed extremely random and I was improving at an natural rate.

*I’m aware that those games had a form of SBMM but they never felt as strict and restrictive as infinite’s casual playlists’ SBMM is.

This happens, but so what?

Your teammates would also be random. Also, Diamonds make up about 43% of the playerbase roughly the exact amount as the bottom 50% of players (plat and lower). Assuming everyone searches solo, random matchmaking would be more or less balanced without making every game a sweat fest just because someone’s ranked placement.

This idea of an ONYX player dominating majority matches is an over exaggeration. If they are in a fully or partly full lobby, I agree. If they are searching solo, much less likely.

And I too believe that this is a good solution. Something like having a 2 tier range search.
Bronze->Bronze, Silver, Gold
Silver-> Bronze, Silver, Gold
Gold-> Silver, Gold, Plat
Plat-> Gold, Plat, Diamond
Diamond-> Plat, Diamond, Onyx
Onyx-> Plat, Diamond, Onyx

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Don’t use the ranked base as the total base, a lot of players don’t play ranked, especially the lower skilled people.

You know that doesn’t happen. And the the better part of the playerbase often has the most people searching in teams.

  1. Your ranked placement is not the same as your hidden skill that is being used in SBMM
  2. It won’t be balenced, because the enormous skill difference
  3. It will be a sweat fest, because the better player has to continiously compensate for the lesser players in there team and be continiously frustrated by those others only giving away kills. And the lesser players will be continiously frustrated that they can’t do anything and will only be looking at a respawn timer and being yelled at.

If they are solo too. They might not win matches sometimes (but only in rare cases, since onyx players are good enough to carry against most players), but then they still go immensly positive. That is still dominating. Nothing is more frustrating for them then going with a +20 and still not being able to win. They were already complaining about that on MCC, and the SBMM seemed to work better then on Infinite in my experience.

Mine don’t, because oftentimes the ‘SBMM’ is working as intended in social. If there were no ‘checks and balances’ in place, the amount of stomps going on would go through the roof. Could you imagine a ‘Bronze’ premade getting matched against an ‘Onyx’ premade in social? The ‘SBMM’ and ‘true skill’ is there to make sure that doesn’t happen, and that players of all skill levels have ‘somewhat’ enjoyable or evenly matched games.

I’d imagine the ‘SBMM’ is going to give you ‘harder games’ in a premade (yes, even in social), since your overall potential for ‘great communication’ and ‘in-game coordination’ is much higher than your random ‘run-of-the-mill’ solo player who queues up alone.

Man, it’s not fun to play with people with very different levels neither in ranked nor in social. There is no fun if the matchmaking is with new players or veteran players.
It makes sense that there is some method to match players with a similar level. In Halo you have to sweat every victory! even in Social mode.

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If I remember correctly the SBMM is working on a playlist (and game mode) specific basis. So your score in ranked does not factor into your score in the social playlists. However they are highly correlated. Also if a good and a bad player always team up together they will have highly correlated scores due to the weighting of win/loss up to a certain point. So the bad players will have inflated scores in those playlists (and likely will match with Onxy/Diamond ranks no matter if they play with their Onyx buddy or not). Basically always playing/performing together will likely make them into a hidden onyx in that playlist.

There is certainly room for improvement in the way the SBMM works (especially when it comes to how teams of differently skilled people are put together). Overall it likely seems to work mostly as designed - I have a lot of close matches. It seemed off yesterday in Attrition though. This might have to do with SBMM needing a few matches under your belt to gage where to put you in this new mode (similar to the 10 matches in ranked but hidden).

I would prefer they tackle the issues with SBMM, rather than get rid of it (mainly for the reasons stated by others above already - it’s no fun for the people who get curb stomped all the time).

The more I play, the more I agree with this sentiment. It seems to work appropriately most of the time for solo players. But as soon as people of different skill party up together, it gets really messed up.

It seems to weight the matchmaking towards the highest skilled player, which makes it miserable for everyone on the team. The highest skilled player ends up needing to play their best game ever while the rest of the team spends the majority of the time looking at a respawn screen.

The matchmaking needs to be fixed.

SBMM makes no difference what so ever when you have 100-200+ ping.

Fix this first ffs.

1 Like

Ermmmmmmmm… maybe a few hundred times…

Like most people above have said and I did in the last of the few hundred, you’ll either get destroyed or destroy. There’s really no fun in either.

I wouldn’t imagine that was everyone’s experience.

And again, for above average players it would be ok. Probably even good. The further to the right your “natural” skill… the better time you are likely having.

No so much for the other side of the curve.

The good players say “so what”… the bad players say “good bye”.

So?

Interesting. Source?

I was always under the impression that it would fall into a more normal distribution and that the ranks were aligned with standard deviations.

I know there was an initial skew to Diamond (being 25% or so)… but that 343 were adjusting their algorithms to bring them back.

And maybe it’s the shape of the curve that is the problem. If 343 can tease it back into it’s proper shape then that would also increase the accuracy of SBMM.

Not if you are assuming a normal distribution of skill level.

And yes, I know, there are reasons for the curve to be skewed. But still, for a lower ranked player - someone on the left hand tail of the curve - that just makes it even scarier to play.

And am I missing something?

I’ve really enjoyed my forays into Social games. Both H5 and Infinite.

I honestly don’t think I’ve ever popped an O-ring because I had to get sweaty. It’s social. You just don’t have to.

Played to win sure. But made sure I had a lot of fun on the way.

SBMM creates an equal playing field for everyone to have fun. It makes just makes sure sweats don’t get to stomp on everyone else. It’s extremely refreshing actually being able to play the game, without getting curb-stomped all the time.

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[quote=“Darwi, post:17, topic:493783”]

I was a poop tier player in Halo 2. Became good in 3. downgraded to whatever in the rest. I bet at most 20% of bad players rage and quit.

So your team will also be made up of low skilled players. GG getting all the easy killings streaks when your team does not have your back.

Onyx players make up like 6% of the player base. Random matchmaking is not going to make the majority of the online matches hard for noobs.

Halo tracker. When I reached D1 it said I was in the top 49%, when I reach onyx it said top 6%. 49-6 = 43%.
To be fair, this was a while ago so the numbers might be a little different now.

I’m assuming based on other Halo games I’ve played and how rare it was to see one person carry 3 others in a game or get perfections or get a ton of sprees. It happened, yes, but it was not that common.

I agree you do not have to. But if you are ranked on the right side of the curve your games are not fun and they get about as sweaty has ranked games. You might not be noticing it because of your level IDK. I think mid tier players are the only one’s winning (experience wise) in casual playlists.

I’m really not having fun against other Onyx ranked players in casual. MM is equal tho. So half right.