Skill Based Matchmaking has turned casual Halo Infinite into the most inorganic gameplay we've ever experienced. No more Digital Dictatorship. Remove SBMM from Matchmaking

Games Halo Infinite
#81

Maybe.

It would be interesting to know what the population is versus the population that SBMM needs to work efficiently.

I do know that the speed of MM doesn’t always equate with lots of numbers. I sometimes get runs of short wait times - but the same dozen or so players recirculating. What’s left has just synchronised their game starts and ends.

I suspect it’s clever enough to look at team averages for everyone.

So it looks at who is waiting and tries to balance the team averages for everyone. So instead of cherry picking high quality matches for the players in the middle of the skill curve - it spreads the pain out.

That way you might have decent numbers - but the people on the tails of the curve (both good and bad) are sharing their rank distribution throughout the group?

And as always, as you touch on later, there are squads.

Yep. And at some point it can’t find matches for those tails… so they tend to drop off. Which leaves a smaller, but well matched, pool?

IDK how much of this is expected behaviour with a low population - and how much of it the MM not being optimised to cope with swings of numbers. Wouldn’t it be lovely to have someone from 343 drop by and answer some of these questions?

1 Like
#82

I’d be interested to see if anyone else is getting a similar experience.

I just checked my recent stats and out of the last 5 times where I’d had more than a day off, I only won my first game back once and it wasn’t a smashing.

Maybe I’m missing out on my free ‘thanks for coming back’ wins?

Edit: It’s a really slow day at work so I checked @Darwi stats as well out of curiosity and he’s won none of the last five of his first games back after taking multiple days off. Can’t check yours or Dead End 24’s because they’re hidden.

1 Like
#83

We’ll just have to disagree on this point. Again, in ranked, yes. I think 343 would be better served providing a “casual” experience in other modes.

Oh, they can help it. If they choose to do so. As things stand currently they have very little incentive to do so. Instead Infinite seems like it wants to push everything toward the river of sweat. It could very well be one element responsible for the existing state of the game. Obviously it’s not the only one. Since, you know, it’s a long list.

I’m not sure gaming the MM has much to do with how you feel about it. Intentionally relaxing so you can be pegged lower by the MM to allow adjusting your level of play on a whim is a little gamey. Feel free to disagree.

How ever you want to look at it… I do wonder how your opponents feel in social when you crank up the effort though.

They can’t change gears because the MM is trying to enforce strict teams and in doing so makes winning unlikely if they let off the gas. Unless they jump through hoops to get the MM to peg them at a lower level beforehand.

Hmm, somehow I think Max saw humanity from a half glass full point of view. Otherwise he would have came to the conclusion removing -Yoink!- from anything is an unachievable goal. There are too many of em floating around. Some people have two. One behind near the bottom and one near the top, centered around the face area.

I said it would be pointless because if everyone reduces their level of play in social/casual modes then everyone gets placed lower by the SBMM algorithm. If all the fence posts are precisely level and you pound em in exactly one additional centimeter they’ll still be level.

Clear and concise instructions on how crayons work may be necessary for such an intricate plan to succeed.

At this point I suspect it’s all kind of moot. Perhaps down the line for future titles I suppose.

3 Likes
#84

I had a similar experience i think it could be tied to your skill level.
Can you see my games?

1 Like
#85

Riiiiight, sure it did. Cool story.

I guess you know this because you loaded in the game first and had to wait for all the slow PC players to load before the game started?

Because how dare anyone being better than you. There’s no possible way anybody is better than you.

2 Likes
#86

Do you actually not know that anyone on console can see who is on PC or are you just being difficult?

1 Like
#87

It’s not an accurate indicator. I’m assuming (I’m admitting I’m assuming) when a console player complains about a PC player, it’s more so about said PC playing using KBM (or accusing said PC player using KBM). Which isn’t always, and hardly ever true. And if the argument is PC with controller (way more players using controller on PC) having an advantage over console with controller, this is false as they both perform exactly the same. Especially now with the added red radicle on PC. It could be argued that pre PC red radicle, console held the advantage (PC controller vs. console controller).

Plus, it’s been shown that if you have Discord linked to your profile, even if you’re on console it will put the PC icon next to your name.

2 Likes
#88

I do think a ranked team slayer playlist that included a ranked system that made people want to grind it would go a long way to making the non-ranked playlists less “sweaty”.

1 Like
#89

Can’t say my skill level compared to yours since I haven’t been able to play ranked in my region since season 1. My best guess is I’d be roughly high Plat but I could definitely be wrong.

I can see your stats:
Jan 24th - WIN first game, KDA of 4, other players seemed around your level.
Jan 21st - Loss first match.
Jan 2nd - Win, KDA 2 but it was Purple Reign so can probably discount that one.
Dec 27th - Win, KDA 18, fits the profile
Dec 25th - Loss first match
Dec 21st - Win, KDA 17, carried hard but close match (50-46)
Dec 13th - Win, KDA 9, CTF 2-0 solid win but couldn’t get the 3rd cap so hardly a stomping.
Nov 30th - Win KDA 13, close match (50-46)

Can’t say it provides strong support to the argument of easy one sided stompings in first game back after a break. You’re a good player so you will definitely get plenty of matches where you have to carry but it doesn’t seem to be happening regularly in your first game back after a break.

1 Like
#90

I am a idiot, Halo waypoint stats give you everything we need.
It only account the last 20 games but every time I took a break my hidden MMR dropped hard.
My kills per game vs Expected kills per game don’t match until the fourth game then it overcompensate.

#91

Definitely.

Try and keep the competitive types in Ranked.

Accumulating wins to earn rewards or military ranks.

#92

Why not have a system like Halo reach where we can customize your search options. This way you can choose SBMM and play with player at your skill level while other can choose to CBMM and play with an open pool.

1 Like
#93

If you want to keep a game going with a health pool of players to play with, you can’t be matching them against people who will clearly curb stomp them into the ground. That drives new players away, and new players is what keeps games alive.

If you want a more casual experience, you’re going to want custom games browser to become bigger and better instead. I’ve never seen a matchmaking set up at all that can come anywhere close to casual matches as custom servers created by actual fans of the game.

1 Like
#94

The real solution is having actual game lobbies where every player can talk between games regardless of what team they’re on, and to stop breaking up lobbies after every match in social playlists. It would make the social playlists experience basically identical to a custom games lobby. The “sweaty games” problem would solve itself.

2 Likes
#95

How would giving players the choice between Skill Based or Connection based matchmaking drive new players away? Before starting their first online game, the game can pop an a message “how would like to search for games?” and give them the two options. Once the option is picked another message would pop up saying “If you are not satisfied with your online experience, you can always change your online experience choice in the Options Menu.”

More important than the matchmaking system, word of mouth has to do a lot more with driving new players to a game. With this game’s reputation being what it is, I don’t see how we’re going to get new players into matchmaking to maintain the health or increase the health of the online experience. Much less so if the only advice to casual players is to play custom games.

1 Like
#96

I read the boards, but I think this is the first time I have really said anything… maybe one other time. I tend to just sit and observe. I tend to keep my mouth shut because there’s a lot of technical stuff I do not understand.

I love to play and I do enjoy playing Infinite when I have a group of people to play with. I’ll never be a pro and that’s ok. I like the pros that I watch and I admire their skill and talent. But, they are them and I am me. I’m a casual player. Naturally, when I am in a team with a spread of ranks (Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond), I expect to get my assets handed to me to some degree because I’m a Silver. However, when I am not connected in a team with friends, when I am solo queuing, my experience was that was more fairly matched in the Ranked Arena than Team Slayer or Quick Play. I can’t even hang in BTB… too much chaos for me most of the time. I digress…

I have struggled more since approximately the time of the Winter Update, more than ever before. Maybe my timing is off. But, here’s what I can say about this past week… In just two days of play, I spent 60-70% of my game time sitting in queue waiting for a match or restarting the game due to multiplayer server failure. Several of those matches resulted in 4 v 3 and even 4 v 2. The match that broke the camel’s back for me was a blood bath, that turned out to be a S1 ranked Onyx player in a 1/10 Ranked game for S2 that I and my Silver teammate got paired with.

I do not feel like I am wrong to believe that a player having previous been ranked as Onyx should never be matched, under any circumstances, against players less than Gold +, if not Diamond. They certainly should not be matched against Bronze and Silver… Ever!

I’m just a casual player who wants to have fun, but I do like skill based matches against fellow players. I like having the ranked because I do like to improve and I enjoy having a goal. But, whatever is going on with the matchmaking is ruining the fun for me, and apparently for others.
It’s just not fun anymore.

I bought an X-Box Series X when no one could get them, spending a small fortune, just for Infinite because I and my family loved Halo that much. I paid for the campaign pre-release for the promise of split screen, co-op campaign. I’ve purchased every battle pass and I’ve paid far more than I should for fun customizations because they made me smile. But, now… I’m the only one who really still plays Infinite and I am getting super close to the point of being done with it entirely.

Whatever it is that is wrong, I really hope someone cares enough to fix it because I do like to play and I love it most when the game is exciting and competitive, win or lose. But no one likes to get slaughtered each and every time by players who have historical ranks from previous seasons that are 10+ ranks over you.

For now, I’ll probably just stick to playing Custom Games and spend time working on my own Forge map. I certainly will not be wasting anymore time on ridiculous challenges or money on schwag.

3 Likes
#97

With low population the MM is always going to struggle with the tails of the population; Bronze/Silver and Onyx.

It’s never going to have enough to create consistent lobbies at those levels… so it tries to balance teams.

But this is always going to suck. For the Silver hanging onto to survive… and the Onyx feeling they are having to carry.

1 Like
#98

I just wanna know what’s with these players with the skill level of Marine Bots. Like I gets some players are new, young/old, or just having a bad game. But some of these teammates (or enemies!) I get paired with are plain horrible.

I actually loaded up theatre to see what someone like that is doing and it’s… sad. Like they run around aimlessly and die. They don’t pick up weapons, and when they do, they can’t aim. They have slow reaction times. They just nade random walls, without an enemy in sight. And when they do see an enemy, they tunnel vision and get led into a ninja-bait. They strategy never seems to change.

The their final stats are something like 1 kill and 18 deaths. Barely any shots fired and only like 18 landed on target. And maybe 1000 damage. No assists, average life under 30 seconds, no driver assists (or they’re driving into walls) and they definitely aren’t playing the objective.

Like Halo Infinite isn’t the easiest game to play especially when desync rears its ugly head, but a stat line like that is more than just an unlucky game or new to Halo/gaming. It’s the type of stat line that even dropping 25+ kills can’t balance out. And it’ll happen almost every 3rd game. Like it’s borderline sandbagging if I didn’t know better.

Idk, this just never seems to happen in in MCC or back in the day. Or when it did it was because they were AFK, or killing themselves on purpose.

2 Likes
#99

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

1 Like
#100

You probably should have just stopped your post there.

I think some of it is just frustration on their part. They get put in these games to be arrow fodder for the better players.

And sometimes they just give up. What defensive tactics they have don’t stand a chance against a couple of Onyx level players swooping around with power weapons and pin point aim.

And they can’t quit lest they get banned.