# Size Discrepancy - Forward Unto Dawn.

While in a discussion on Bungie.net, a user there pointed out that the size of the Dawn in Halo 4 is much larger than it is in Halo 3.

Doing some research, I determined he was correct. I likely reason is that the Dawn was in inflated in size to make the opening level much more enjoyable in size. That would be true, but the problem begins when we are given the size of the Hyperion Missile.

Given how helpful Stephen Loftus was in explaining how size of the objects in Halo 4 were determined, I think it’s safe to assume that they determined the Hyperion Missile size relative to the in game model of the Dawn.

This picture shows the problem with this.

Before I go on, I want to give the most recent canon sources for the sizes of the objects I’m going through.

> Length
> 202.6ft (61.7M)
>
> Width
> 51.9ft (15.8M)
>
> Height
> 56.1ft (17.1M)
> -Hyperion Missile, Page 74, Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide

> Length
> 1,607ft (490M)
>
> Beam
> 510ft (156M)
>
> Height
> 457ft (139M)
> -UNSC Forward Unto Dawn, Page 186, Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide

Roughly counting how many Hyperion Missiles fit into the shadow of the Halo 4 Dawn, I estimated 12 do.

Math:
12 X 61.7 = 740.4M

That means that the aft section of the Dawn in Halo 4 is 740.4M in length which is incredibly skewed to the official 490M of an intact Charon Frigate.

We can also see the Halo 3 Aft section for comparison. The height of the Halo 3 version seems accurate as two Hyperion Missiles stack up leaving a little extra room for a fraction of another missile.

Math:
2 X 61.7 = 123.4M

Which compared to the official height of a Charon being 139M makes the Halo 3 Dawn the most accurate Charon we have size-wise.

The problem this causes though, is that we can’t pretend the dawn is up-scaled for gameplay reasons. Why? The Hyperion Missile is way to large for the actual Dawn to house three of them.

Math:
740.4 / 61.7 = 12
490 / 2 = 245
~245 / 12 = 20.4

Proportionally, if the layout of the Dawn’s Hyperion launch bay was to stay correct, the Hyperion Missile would need to be 20.4M tall.

So I see a few options to rectify this problem.

1. The Dawn is up-scaled in size to be correct based on its in-game Halo 4 size

2. The Hyperion Missile is reduced to 20.4M in length

3. The Hyperion Missile size is slightly reduced and the Launch Bay is redesigned to fit the missiles

Personal Notes:

Given that the Lore Community widely accepts that Frigates are star ships built around MAC Guns, it is possible that the Hyperion Missiles are actually that big in comparison to the canon Frigate, meaning that Frigates are literally ships built around weapons, mainly the Hyperion Missiles and Mac Gun.

I noticed this from the very start scene of Halo 4, gave me a sour taste in my mouth, regardless I was in love.

I wouldn’t mine 343i changing the canon size of the frigates and making them all 100 or 200 or even 300 meters bigger. 400 meters would be a little to much, as it would be cutting it close to 1km in length and close to cruiser size.

UNSC with big ships, humanity fk yea.

> I wouldn’t mine 343i changing the canon size of the frigates and making them all 100 or 200 or even 300 meters bigger. 400 meters would be a little to much, as it would be cutting it close to 1km in length and close to cruiser size.
>
> UNSC with big ships, humanity fk yea.

While I do agree with bigger ships, in Halo 3 it wasn’t that big, which annoys me.

It’s funny that you say it’s not big enough in Halo 3. That’s a Charon Frigates canon size in Halo 3.

490M. Less than half a kilometer.