I see a lot of people wanting to see more classic weapons added to Infinite, but it seems Infinite will have a lot of new weapons and with the classic weapons returning as well, the sandbox will be flooded with weapons that have the same purpose and maybe even function. One of halo’s overlooked differences is that it didn’t have a huge sandbox of weapons, only enough just for each scenario. So why should they keep adding more?
They shouldn’t. Unless the new weapons have some new niche function of course, but I’m not so sure about that unfortunately.
Give me a reasonable balanced selection of weapons and I’ll be happy, quality over quantity.
agreed they shouldnt just add weapons just to add them, just like they shouldnt be replacing existing weapons just to replace them. I like the addition of the grapple hook it adds a uniqueness to Halo. i know its been seen in other games but we arent talking about those we are talking about Halo and i am interested in seeing what it does to the gameplay especially in Multiplayer.
I imagine a lot of the calls for the return of classic weapons has more to do with the fact that some of the Infinite designs are straight up awful. The Sidekick in particular is just so painfully generic that replacing with just about any other pistol design we have had in the series would be a vast improvement.
That being said I completely agree that that the sandbox should not be flooded with redundant clones whether they are “classic” or not. From Halo 2 onward the franchise has been plagued by dull weapon designs that are little more than faction reskins of the same handful of weapon types. It doesn’t matter if you have a bunch of interesting looking weapons when they all play more or less the exact same way.
I don’t think Halo’s sandbox has been quality over quantity since CE. 2 introduced three weapons that were truly unique (by which I mean they added a new type of gameplay to the sandbox):
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Energy sword - Brute shot - Sentinel Beam3’s truly unique additions:
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Carryable heavy weapons (but only the flamethrower and missile launcher were new, and the flamethrower was in CE PC and the missile launcher is basically just a fast version of the Halo 2 rocket launcher) - Firebomb grenade - Gravity Hammer - Spartan LaserReach’s truly unique additions:
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Target locator - Grenade launcher - Needle rifle (debatable) - Concussion rife (debatable) - Plasma launcher (debatable) - Focus rifle (debatable)4’s truly unique additions:
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Railgun (debatable) - Sticky detonator (debatable) - SAW (debatable) - Pulse grenade - Scattershot (debatable)5’s truly unique additions:
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?We get less and less innovation and more and more iteration as we go on (which is expected and not necessarily bad). But it’s unrealistic to expect Infinite to have a simplistic sandbox when we haven’t gotten one in 20 years:
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Pistol: your go-to precision weapon - AR: your go-to spray and pray weapon - Sniper Rifle: your go-to long range weapon - Rocket Launcher: your go-to splash damage weapon - Shotgun: your go-to close quarters weapon - Frag grenade: bouncy grenade - Plasma pistol: surprisingly powerful pea shooter that takes down shields when overcharged - Plasma rifle: made obsolete by the plasma pistol - Needler: pump them full of pink and watch them explode - Plasma grenade: sticky grenadeExcept for the plasma rifle, each weapon fills a niche and it’s up to the player to choose a weapon for their situation. But for what we gain in efficiency we lose out in cool faction variants of existing weapon types. The games have gotten more complex in terms of enemy types, vehicles, and other sandbox items, so the simple weapon sandbox of CE wouldn’t cut it. You have to balance the weapon options with respect to what you’re going up against and what else is available to you.
> 2533274883561809;6:
> I don’t think Halo’s sandbox has been quality over quantity since CE. 2 introduced three weapons that were truly unique (by which I mean they added a new type of gameplay to the sandbox):
> - Energy sword - Brute shot - Sentinel Beam3’s truly unique additions:
> - Carryable heavy weapons (but only the flamethrower and missile launcher were new, and the flamethrower was in CE PC and the missile launcher is basically just a fast version of the Halo 2 rocket launcher) - Firebomb grenade - Gravity Hammer - Spartan LaserReach’s truly unique additions:
> - Target locator - Grenade launcher - Needle rifle (debatable) - Concussion rife (debatable) - Plasma launcher (debatable) - Focus rifle (debatable)4’s truly unique additions:
> - Railgun (debatable) - Sticky detonator (debatable) - SAW (debatable) - Pulse grenade - Scattershot (debatable)5’s truly unique additions:
> - ?We get less and less innovation and more and more iteration as we go on (which is expected and not necessarily bad). But it’s unrealistic to expect Infinite to have a simplistic sandbox when we haven’t gotten one in 20 years:
> - Pistol: your go-to precision weapon - AR: your go-to spray and pray weapon - Sniper Rifle: your go-to long range weapon - Rocket Launcher: your go-to splash damage weapon - Shotgun: your go-to close quarters weapon - Frag grenade: bouncy grenade - Plasma pistol: surprisingly powerful pea shooter that takes down shields when overcharged - Plasma rifle: made obsolete by the plasma pistol - Needler: pump them full of pink and watch them explode - Plasma grenade: sticky grenadeExcept for the plasma rifle, each weapon fills a niche and it’s up to the player to choose a weapon for their situation. But for what we gain in efficiency we lose out in cool faction variants of existing weapon types. The games have gotten more complex in terms of enemy types, vehicles, and other sandbox items, so the simple weapon sandbox of CE wouldn’t cut it. You have to balance the weapon options with respect to what you’re going up against and what else is available to you.
I think there’s some breathing room between having a simple sandbox and still having some variety. At this point in Halo’s lifetime, it’s certainly not possible to return to the absolute simplicity of CE’s sandbox, but I do think there can be a balance struck with these factions and a simple sandbox.
But to get there I think a lot of things need to happen under the hood, and some of these changes can certainly be disputed. I think a simple but powerful weapon sandbox relies on basic movement as opposed to advanced movement because it adds an extra layer of nuance to weapon design: Projectile Precision weapons. These aren’t an option with sprint and high mobility which should go without saying.
With projectile precision weapons in the mix, now weapon ranges can be defined much more reliably without incorporating spread(reach) or weird recoil patterns(halo 5 BR). Weapons can have differing projectile speeds to differentiate them, like having the BR shoot projectile bullets faster than the starting magnum, but slower than the carbine. Now its not just a question of TTK and shots to kill, but instead the optimal range for leading shots as well as RRR(red reticle range).
Beyond weapons in similar niches like the precision weapons, I think that it would be best for Promethean weapons to either (a) go, or (b) change entirely. We don’t even know if Prometheans are in Infinite, and I’m gonna go out on a limb and they they probably arent given the absolute lack of any promotional material and toys containing them. Promethean weapons were retreads of human weapons and further cluttered the sandbox.
Lastly, forerunner weapons aren’t exactly numerous in Halo, all we’ve seen is the Sentinel Beam. I think that Forerunner weapons inspired by the precedent set in Halo 2 (enforcer sentinels) would be a welcome and unique addition to the sandbox. Imagine a forerunner shotgun that acts similar to the Tractor Cannon from Destiny 2, and propels players/objects. Now you can splatter players with cones, or fling them into walls and kill them. How about forerunner grenades that allow you to jump extremely high but don’t do any damage. You can use them to get places, or use them against vehicles to flip them.
Physics-based weapons is absolutely the avenue that Halo should pursue when designing new weapons. Also there’s a firm difference between the Halo 2 Brute shot and the Halo 3 one, and I’d love to see both weapons reincorporated, one of course as a different weapon entirely but sharing the same function.
A couple of copies for some weapons in different sides is sort of necessary in the campaigh.
I don’t think I can talk enough about this but the Covenant in the first game is mostly harmless in ranged battles (around medium range) since the non-hitscan nature of the weapons they use is unsuited against moving targets and for the AI itself, they have a poor attack range except for the Wraith and the Fuel Rod Gun, again mostly harmless in ranged battles as long as you keep an eye on them, in that case it’s long-range not medium.
Assault on the Control Room is a good mission to see that weakness, you don’t need the tank to defeat them.
> 2533274923428997;7:
> Physics-based weapons is absolutely the avenue that Halo should pursue when designing new weapons. Also there’s a firm difference between the Halo 2 Brute shot and the Halo 3 one
That’s how the Concussion Rifle can engage light vehicles, it can easily be superior to the EMP from the Grenade Launcher since the vehicle can’t always return fire.
The Brute Shot in Halo 2 has the (melee) power to instantly defeat an unshielded combat form, a Grunt, a Jackal and a Drone on Legendary which is incredible, it can also finish a Brute with said power if all grenades connected (one rank is, can’t say for all) . The absolute best weapon to exploit with Black Eye enabled.
In Halo 3, not everything above is possible, a good thing it can shoot 6 times and is easier to use now.
> 2533274947044147;3:
> Give me a reasonable balanced selection of weapons and I’ll be happy, quality over quantity.
Exactly, as much as I liked the ideas of different variants of weapons in halo 5, most of them were just painted differently and called “new content”
> 2533274819446242;5:
> I imagine a lot of the calls for the return of classic weapons has more to do with the fact that some of the Infinite designs are straight up awful. The Sidekick in particular is just so painfully generic that replacing with just about any other pistol design we have had in the series would be a vast improvement.
>
> That being said I completely agree that that the sandbox should not be flooded with redundant clones whether they are “classic” or not. From Halo 2 onward the franchise has been plagued by dull weapon designs that are little more than faction reskins of the same handful of weapon types. It doesn’t matter if you have a bunch of interesting looking weapons when they all play more or less the exact same way.
Agreed, we know 343 will have to add the old designs because their was backlash from the start on the new design’s, but why change them into such generic designs. Honestly it sounds like Microsofts doing since the multiplayer will be free and the campaign on gamepass.
I like Halo with an expansive weapon sandbox. I don’t mind weapon overlap with minute niche differences or obvious thematic differences based on alien technology or whatnot. I just don’t want to see weapons rendered essentially useless from overlapping roles. Of course, sandbox balance remains key and a large sandbox can make that balance more complex to achieve, but that’s what the developers must figure out if they’re to have a large sandbox. I expect them to achieve that goal and to fine tune it via flighting, on-going player feedback, and collected data analysis from in-game statistics.
Personally, I hope they elect to go with a fully projectile-based sandbox given the size of the Halo ring world and the added ability to fine tune weapon effectiveness and niche differences at range which should allow for a much better sandbox balance particularly on large-scale multiplayer maps too.