Simplify Loadouts

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I recently started playing Gears of War again,and the one thing that I keep thinking when I play it is how the way that loadouts are handled, and how this exact same system would work perfectly in Halo.

For those of you who haven’t played Gears, the loaout system is extreamly simple. You get two weapons, one automatic and one shotgun. In Halo these would obviously be replaced with one Primary weapon and one secondary. In Gears there are choices between 3 or 4 automatics and between 2 shotguns. In Halo there would be a choice between 6 primary weapons, and 3 secondary ones. The Primary weapons should consist of: BR, AR, Carbine, Plasma Rifle (from this post), and two new promethean/forunner weapons. The secondary weapons should be: Magnum, Plasma Repeater(from same link as above) and a new promethean/forunner secondary.

Just like in Gears everyone would spawn with the same grenades, and be able to pick up more on map.

2

Could be good, could make the gameplay much more “Cleaner” i guess.

But the mainstream, medias and gamers alike are just gonna see it as a downgrade from the previous game, so i don’t know if 343 would have the courage to do it to show respect for fans but it’ll definitely be received negativity from the mainstream.

3

IMO loadouts need to get the hell out. I want so bad halo to go back to map pick ups for everything.

4

If you want to simplify loadouts then ditch secondaries entirely. Why you people want to leave the magnum a worthless backup weapon I will never understand.

If loadouts must stay than simplify the selection to a ‘pick two’ system where you choose between 2 viable primary weapons rather than a useful weapon and a weapon you ditch at your earliest convenience.

If I had to pick a weapons set then it would have to be

BR
Needle Rifle
AR
Storm rifle(with CE Plasma rifle mechanics)
ODST SMG
Spiker
ODST Automag

At least to start. Each weapon choice should not only look different but play differently. For all their alleged differences the Carbine fills pretty much the same role as the BR. The DMR/N’ifle also fill the same role. Same goes for the Storm rifle/AR(in Halo 4)

As for Forerunner weapons it is unfortunate that not many of the Forerunner weapon really did anything new or different niche wise. So I believe it would be better if Forerunner weapons were all map pickups. Essentially they would act as ‘high tier’ versions of existing weapons. Not necessarily power weapons, but still something you would grab over the default spawning weapons.

5

If loadouts return, automatic weapons should not be available as a primary because they don’t work as a primary. Automatic weapons are close-quarters support (i.e. secondary) weapons.

6

> If loadouts return, automatic weapons should not be available as a primary because they don’t work as a primary. Automatic weapons are close-quarters support (i.e. secondary) weapons.

I second this.
And if loadouts return (which I’m pretty sure will happen) they should be only a primary and secondary to choose from. With no perks.

7

> Automatic weapons should not be available as a primary because they don’t work as a primary. Automatic weapons are close-quarters support (i.e. secondary) weapons.

Tactical SMG (ODST)
-2x Scope, Very Accurate, No Recoil
-Moderately slower killtime to Battle Rifle.
-Equal killtime with headshots based on slight multiplier (though doubt many people would hit every headshot).
-Significantly faster time between melee swings.
-Melee time decreases with each successful hit.
[Function: Medium-Range Suppressive Descoping Weapon]
[Secondary Function: Personal Defense Weapon]

Or just cite the Sentinel Beam, Needle Rifle, CE Mag, etc.

Personally I’d have Medium Range Primaries and Close Range Secondaries, with weapons differing based on role/function and not on range/auto-or-semi.

Magnum
-High damage.
-High Bloom
-Slows on Hit, this decreases with distance.
-Shares SMG melee traits.
[Function: Close Range Finisher/Debuffer/Formidable Handcannon]

8

> > If loadouts return, automatic weapons should not be available as a primary because they don’t work as a primary. Automatic weapons are close-quarters support (i.e. secondary) weapons.
>
> I second this.
> And if loadouts return (which I’m pretty sure will happen) they should be only a primary and secondary to choose from. With no perks.

Disagree 100%.

If you make automatics secondary, the pistols literally become worthless. You won’t need the magnums distance since you will already have a scoped gun, the boltshots shotgun would too easily be replaced by more consistent assault rifle fire and the plasma pistol is really the only other option for overcharges against vehicles and shields and they shouldn’t even be in loadouts to begin with.

I may hate loadouts, but automatics as secondaries is a flat out poor decision. Just because they are only good at close range doesn’t mean they should be secondary.

By your logic then the shotgun is a suitable secondary spawn weapon which is wrong!

You want to know the best way to fix loadouts. What the OP said or get rid of them! No perks or anything. In a perfect world I’d still have equal starts.

9

> If you want to simplify loadouts then ditch secondaries entirely. Why you people want to leave the magnum a worthless backup weapon I will never understand.
>
> If loadouts must stay than simplify the selection to a ‘pick two’ system where you choose between 2 viable primary weapons rather than a useful weapon and a weapon you ditch at your earliest convenience.
>
> If I had to pick a weapons set then it would have to be
>
> BR
> Needle Rifle
> AR
> Storm rifle(with CE Plasma rifle mechanics)
> ODST SMG
> Spiker
> ODST Automag
>
> At least to start. Each weapon choice should not only look different but play differently. For all their alleged differences the Carbine fills pretty much the same role as the BR. The DMR/N’ifle also fill the same role. Same goes for the Storm rifle/AR(in Halo 4)
>
> As for Forerunner weapons it is unfortunate that not many of the Forerunner weapon really did anything new or different niche wise. So I believe it would be better if Forerunner weapons were all map pickups. Essentially they would act as ‘high tier’ versions of existing weapons. Not necessarily power weapons, but still something you would grab over the default spawning weapons.

I don’t like the idea of making all Forerunner weapons just higher tier weapons. What I would like to see is the Binary Rifle changed to be more like the Focus Rifle. The only Forerunner weapon in the first three games is the sentinal beam and it is unique. I want all Forerunner weapons to be like that. They could do a couple things to make all of the weapns a little more unique.

One thing that I just thought of is mixing the scatter shot and the boltshot. What I mean by this is that you can charge up the scatter shot to make it more powerful and have a further range. If you pull the trigger without holing the trigger it should be about equal to the mauler, but after you hold the trigger for a couple of seconds it should be crazy good. They would also have to add a mechanic where if it is held too long it would lose power or automatically go off so you can’t just sit there and hold the trigger.

10

If loadouts return in Halo 5, here’s my cut-down desire:

1 Primary, 1 secondary, Frags only. NO perks. AA’s are a whole different debate – it all depends on how they are implemented-- but let’s assume no for this topic.

For large maps, your primary is a selection of a scoped rifle and your secondary is an automatic. EG combos like BR/Plasma Repeater, or DMR/AR.

For small maps, your primary is an automatic and a sidearm, EG Suppressor/Magnum, or AR/Boltshot (minus the overcharge, natch).

Positioning the sidearm is critical to encouraging the right kind of gameplay. Odds are they’re mostly useless when your primary is a scoped rifle like a DMR or BR, or the distance is too great to effectively engage with a pistol-type weapon.

Keep the scoped, longer ranged rifles in the bigger, more open maps. If I recall correctly, Halo 3 had this setup in some form and it worked a treat. Keep the CQC weapons for the CQC maps.

It’s simple and I think it would be effective. It provides variety in the loadouts while imposing broad rules for fair play. It promotes the whole weapons sandbox and encourages weapons diversity instead of just bullet hoses (such as Halo 4 automatics).

11

I agree with OP on loadouts.

12

> If you make automatics secondary, the pistols literally become worthless. You won’t need the magnums distance since you will already have a scoped gun, the boltshots shotgun would too easily be replaced by more consistent assault rifle fire and the plasma pistol is really the only other option for overcharges against vehicles and shields and they shouldn’t even be in loadouts to begin with.
>
> You want to know the best way to fix loadouts. What the OP said or get rid of them! No perks or anything. In a perfect world I’d still have equal starts.

The dirty little secret is that the magnum already is worthless. Loadouts or no ‘secondaries’ are a terrible idea. The magnum should be a viable tool in its own right when used within its niche. “Backup” isn’t a viable niche on its own.

This is why a ‘pick two’ system is a better option. The primary/secondary distinctions are removed so we don’t have to consider whether a weapon ‘fits’ or not. It either works for loadouts or it doesn’t. I would also prefer to have equal starts and if that were the case I would want BR/AR starts anyway.

> I don’t like the idea of making all Forerunner weapons just higher tier weapons. What I would like to see is the Binary Rifle changed to be more like the Focus Rifle. The only Forerunner weapon in the first three games is the sentinal beam and it is unique. I want all Forerunner weapons to be like that. They could do a couple things to make all of the weapns a little more unique.

In a perfect world I would want the Forerunner sandbox completely overhauled, but that is incredibly unlikely, so given what we have to work with I would say the best solution is to have the weapons of the most advanced race to be be a bit more lethal than your ‘average’ weapon.

The Bi-Ri and iCannon already work that way as a ‘super sniper’ and ‘super rockets’ respectively. Post patch LR also works that way to a degree. All that is really left is buffing the rest of the forerunner sandbox. They still have their drawbacks but they would be the most ‘lethal’ in their respective categories.

13

> > > I don’t like the idea of making all Forerunner weapons just higher tier weapons. What I would like to see is the Binary Rifle changed to be more like the Focus Rifle. The only Forerunner weapon in the first three games is the sentinal beam and it is unique. I want all Forerunner weapons to be like that. They could do a couple things to make all of the weapns a little more unique.
> >
> > In a perfect world I would want the Forerunner sandbox completely overhauled, but that is incredibly unlikely, so given what we have to work with I would say the best solution is to have the weapons of the most advanced race to be be a bit more lethal than your ‘average’ weapon.
> >
> > The Bi-Ri and iCannon already work that way as a ‘super sniper’ and ‘super rockets’ respectively. Post patch LR also works that way to a degree. All that is really left is buffing the rest of the forerunner sandbox. They still have their drawbacks but they would be the most ‘lethal’ in their respective categories.
>
> I agree that this would be better than nothing, but at the same time I see it as a little useless. It would add useless repitition to the game. That is the thing that I’m worried about if they take this approach.

14

When you enter a match of Halo 5, You should be able to choose between a Primary weapon, Secondary weapon and One AA. (Hold your rage comments, Ill get to those in a second).

This way, 343 can tweak which weapons are in which game mode/playlist.

Players will spawn with a primary, secondary, 2x Frags and 1 AA.

The AA’s you could spawn with would be less powerful. Thruster Pack, Hardlight Shield, Hologram, Drop Shield. These AA’s can recharge their energy.

The More powerful AA’s are on the map, Promethean vision, Jetpack, AC. These ones do not recharge. Once they are used up, Then you must wait 120 seconds for them to respawn. Basically running a High risk, High reward style of gameplay for these more powerful AA’s.

Perks are completely removed from Halo. Never to be seen again. EVER.

You could also make it so that players could still unlock weapons skins that they could change from their Spartan/Elite armory. This way, Halo still has some customization, But is cosmetic. Example: You unlocked the BR’s Artic skin. You equip it under your Armory. When you enter the game and select your BR, You will have an Artic BR.

I dunno how 343 will handle loadouts. But if there are Perks again, So help me…

Plus, I like Weapons skins!

15

Crap that does not belong in Halo should NOT be in Halo. There is no need to simply load outs. They don’t belong and should be thrown away. Stop trying to force bad designs that don’t work in Halo.

16

> By your logic then the shotgun is a suitable secondary spawn weapon which is wrong!

The shotgun, like the AR, is a niche weapon. Primary weapons need to be versatile, like the BR or CE pistol. That’s why the AR has never been widely accepted as a starting weapon and why it does not work as a primary weapon.

> If you make automatics secondary, the pistols literally become worthless.

Which is exactly why loadouts should be ditched. As primary weapons, the automatics are useless. As secondary weapons, the automatics are useful, but pistols are not. The only “fix” would be to make automatic weapons into semi-power weapons like the Needler or Mauler, but I don’t think that would be a good idea. So, if you can’t fix something to make it workable and worthwhile, it should be removed.

17

> When you enter a match of Halo 5, You should be able to choose between a Primary weapon, Secondary weapon and One AA. (Hold your rage comments, Ill get to those in a second).
>
> This way, 343 can tweak which weapons are in which game mode/playlist.
>
> <mark>Players will spawn with a primary, secondary, 2x Frags and 1 AA.</mark>
>
> <mark>The AA’s you could spawn with would be less powerful. Thruster Pack, Hardlight Shield, Hologram, Drop Shield. These AA’s can recharge their energy.</mark>
>
> <mark>The More powerful AA’s are on the map, Promethean vision, Jetpack, AC. These ones do not recharge. Once they are used up, Then you must wait 120 seconds for them to respawn. Basically running a High risk, High reward style of gameplay for these more powerful AA’s.</mark>
>
> <mark>Perks are completely removed from Halo. Never to be seen again. EVER.</mark>
>
> <mark>You could also make it so that players could still unlock weapons skins that they could change from their Spartan/Elite armory. This way, Halo still has some customization, But is cosmetic. Example: You unlocked the BR’s Artic skin. You equip it under your Armory. When you enter the game and select your BR, You will have an Artic BR.</mark>
>
> <mark>I dunno how 343 will handle loadouts. But if there are Perks again, So help me…</mark>
> <mark>Plus, I like Weapons skins!</mark>

I agree with everything that I highlighted. However, all AA’s should be turned into equipment. Equipment should get an overhaul from its apperence in H3, with the only real change being that you can use some equipment more than once. Generally speaking “AA’s” should be equipment that have multiple/timed uses and “equipment” should only get one use.

Example: you can throw one deploable cover (from H3), or you can use a hardlight shield that has a certain amount of time it can be used(being shot at would lower this time.

Basically all AA’s would be converted to mid-tier equipment, equal to about the needler or the shotgun when compared to weapons. Powerups should then be made into the “power equipment” This solves problems such as invis jetpack rocket. This could add a little more staregy into using powerups as you could activate them when you want to instead of using them instantly upon pickup, the counter to this there would be a lower time on how long they last and if you are killed while holding them you would drop it for your enamy to pick up. Once you use it however you cannot drop it.

The structure would go something like this:

Low level
-Deployable Cover(one use)
-Radar Jammer(one use)
-Grav lift(one use)
-hologram(one use)
-Flare(one use)

Mid level
-bubble sheild(one use)
-Regen field(one use)
-Promethean Vision(one “burst”)
-Hardlight Shield(fuel meter)
-Thruster Pack(3-5 uses)
-Jetpack(fuel meter)
-Armor Lock(one use)

Power Level
-active camo(one use with timer)
-speed boost(one use with timer)
-oversheild(one use with timer)

You might realise that I have left out all of the offensive equipment/AA’s, that is because I don’t think that equipment should be directly offensive.

One last thing, the button that is used to activate these should go back to “X” like it was in H3. This would do little things such as make jetpacking and aiming much harder to do, therefore adding a check to it without technically making it weaker.

18

> > By your logic then the shotgun is a suitable secondary spawn weapon which is wrong!
>
> The shotgun, like the AR, is a niche weapon. Primary weapons need to be versatile, like the BR or CE pistol. That’s why the AR has never been widely accepted as a starting weapon and why it does not work as a primary weapon.
>
>
>
> > If you make automatics secondary, the pistols literally become worthless.
>
> Which is exactly why loadouts should be ditched. <mark>As primary weapons, the automatics are useless. As secondary weapons, the automatics are useful, but pistols are not.</mark> The only “fix” would be to make automatic weapons into semi-power weapons like the Needler or Mauler, but I don’t think that would be a good idea. So, if you can’t fix something to make it workable and worthwhile, it should be removed.

I don’t think that this is true. I play with a couple people that wreck with the AR as a starting weapon. Now I’m not saying that automatics are better, but they are an option. If someone with a BR/DMR misses one of their shots at close range against an AR than it is an almost gurenteed kill. Plus having automatics as Primaries would add to the Magnums power, becaue they need something that headshots.

19

> > > By your logic then the shotgun is a suitable secondary spawn weapon which is wrong!
> >
> > The shotgun, like the AR, is a niche weapon. Primary weapons need to be versatile, like the BR or CE pistol. That’s why the AR has never been widely accepted as a starting weapon and why it does not work as a primary weapon.
> >
> >
> >
> > > If you make automatics secondary, the pistols literally become worthless.
> >
> > Which is exactly why loadouts should be ditched. <mark>As primary weapons, the automatics are useless. As secondary weapons, the automatics are useful, but pistols are not.</mark> The only “fix” would be to make automatic weapons into semi-power weapons like the Needler or Mauler, but I don’t think that would be a good idea. So, if you can’t fix something to make it workable and worthwhile, it should be removed.
>
> I don’t think that this is true. I play with a couple people that wreck with the AR as a starting weapon. Now I’m not saying that automatics are better, but they are an option. If someone with a BR/DMR misses one of their shots at close range against an AR than it is an almost gurenteed kill. Plus having automatics as Primaries would add to the Magnums power, becaue they need something that headshots.

Exactly, which is why the pistol was so popular in Reach. If everyone started with an AR and pistol, the pistol was their ranged choice.

20

> I don’t think that this is true. I play with a couple people that wreck with the AR as a starting weapon. Now I’m not saying that automatics are better, but they are an option.

Perhaps, but they would be even more effective with a BR simply because of the BR’s effective range being… three times larger, maybe? (Just a guesstimation.) Better range means not only that they can kill players who are further away, but also that they can assist and support teammates who are further away.

In other words:
4 BRs 〉 3 BRs + 1 AR
4 BRs 〉 2 BRs + 2 ARs
4 BRs 〉 4 ARs
Etc.

ARs will always be underpowered compared to the BR even if only slightly. Options in the same category (in this case, primary weapons) need to be balanced, and if one option is objectively better or more effective than another, then the options are imbalanced.

For automatics, the best that we can do is balance their range and kill time such that they don’t become near-shotguns, but are viable as same-starts weapons.