Simple discussion - I'm confused

Logic by 343i: Skill-based ranks make players want to brag, boost, and sell. They brag about having higher ranks than lesser-skilled players. They boost those accounts to get a higher number or rank. They sell accounts to those lesser-skilled players who are insecure about their skill.

But time-based ranks don’t?

People brag all the time in Reach about how they are Novas or Inheritors. I, personally, have bragged about it in a way, saying, “Oh, a team of Captains. We’ll win this easily.”

People boost all the time in Reach. People are rewarded for simply taking part in an activity. Therefore, it is even more likely that they will boost that activity.

I also fail to understand why the progression system wouldn’t be hidden as well, considering the above. Common responses say that, “boosting in a progression system won’t affect you, so why do you care?” Neither does boosting. If anything, it makes me face easier opponents, something that I will welcome with open arms. Another refute to that is that in Halo 4, boosting the progression system does affect me.

I was one of the many who opposed the weapon unlock system when it was first announced. Why? Because I shouldn’t be punished for simply playing less time. If Player A has unlocked a specialization or armor ability that I don’t have, and they use it against me, then I am at a disadvantage.

This only encourages people to boost even more.

So please, answer me: Where is the logic?

I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.

> I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.

Even still K/D can be deceptive though.

> I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.

As do I. I’m just saying, ranks are a quick and easy determinant of how long someone’s played, and more often than not, those with lower ranks are worse. Don’t get into this with me, because I know there are many exceptions.

The point is, the logic isn’t there. I can just as easily brag about my armor or about my rank, or my K/D, or my recent medals, or my gamerscore, etc.

> I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.

and what does it matter if they are a threat or not? If you lose, so what? lol you arent gaining anything by winning or losing anything by losing.

> > I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.
>
> and what does it matter if they are a threat or not? If you lose, so what? lol you arent gaining anything by winning or losing anything by losing.

Just saying I like to know what I’m up against. I don’t play Reach anymore on a regular basis and If I do I play firefight. Mainly because every AA in Reach doesn’t help me as much as sprint.

> > I completely disregard ranks in Reach, I look at the K/Ds of people in thier service record before a game to determine if they are a threat or not.
>
> and what does it matter if they are a threat or not? If you lose, so what? lol you arent gaining anything by winning or <mark>losing anything by losing</mark>.

Yeah, that’d be crazy. Being punished for being bad. Everyone is equal in H4.

Boosting did hurt people though. You say that you like easier opponents, but what about the teammates of that booster who is basically a less skilled player in a high-level match. Their ranks are hurt from this. I’ve also heard something about how they can cause rank locking among better players when they lose their 50 from the purchased account and drop lower due to a mess of true-skill equations. I wish I could find the post that explained this better…

343 is trying to remove all of that.

Let’s take a look at your logic now: 343 confirms a skill based ranking system and massively hints that only you can see your rank (fine by your critica). You then spam multiple threads explaining the importance of what was already promised.

> Everyone is equal in H4.

That’s the motto, n**** YOLO

  • Drake

> Boosting did hurt people though. You say that you like easier opponents, but what about the teammates of that booster who is basically a less skilled player in a high-level match. Their ranks are hurt from this. I’ve also heard something about how they can cause rank locking among better players when they lose their 50 from the purchased account and drop lower due to a mess of true-skill equations. I wish I could find the post that explained this better…
>
> 343 is trying to remove all of that.
>
> Let’s take a look at your logic now: 343 confirms a skill based ranking system and massively hints that only you can see your rank (fine by your critica). You then spam multiple threads explaining the importance of what was already promised.

Okay. You made an actual smart move in your first few sentences. I actually believed you knew what you were talking about.

Then you talked about rank locking. That was when you couldn’t go up anymore even if you won a ton of games. Guess what that means? THE NUMBER THAT YOU’RE ON IS YOUR TRUE SKILL LEVEL COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE. IT MEANT THE SYSTEM WORKED!!!

Then you try to take a stab at my logic. 343i confirmed today that the skill-based system was hidden from everyone. It was in the live stream. I cannot see my own skill rank. 343i basically said, “Trust us, guys, it’s there.” This is what Bungie did with Reach, and it failed miserably.

> Logic by 343i: Skill-based ranks make players want to brag, boost, and sell. They brag about having higher ranks than lesser-skilled players. They boost those accounts to get a higher number or rank. They sell accounts to those lesser-skilled players who are insecure about their skill.
>
> But time-based ranks don’t?
>
> People brag all the time in Reach about how they are Novas or Inheritors. I, personally, have bragged about it in a way, saying, “Oh, a team of Captains. We’ll win this easily.”
>
> People boost all the time in Reach. People are rewarded for simply taking part in an activity. Therefore, it is even more likely that they will boost that activity.
>
> I also fail to understand why the progression system wouldn’t be hidden as well, considering the above. Common responses say that, “boosting in a progression system won’t affect you, so why do you care?” Neither does boosting. If anything, it makes me face easier opponents, something that I will welcome with open arms. Another refute to that is that in Halo 4, boosting the progression system does affect me.
>
> I was one of the many who opposed the weapon unlock system when it was first announced. Why? Because I shouldn’t be punished for simply playing less time. If Player A has unlocked a specialization or armor ability that I don’t have, and they use it against me, then I am at a disadvantage.
>
> This only encourages people to boost even more.
>
> So please, answer me: Where is the logic?

The logic is this: Bragging and boosting progressive ranks hurts no one. Selling Reach-based accounts hurts no one. Why? Because no one cares if you are a Inheritor, no one cares if you got to Inheritor by nefarious means, and if you buy someone’s account because it’s an Inheritor, you’re stupid.

Progressive ranks don’t mean anything. Why hide them?

The selling of accounts in Halo 3 wrecked TrueSkill. I don’t care if you believe it. It’s True. Any visible rank that is linked to TrueSkill will become a black market commodity. That’s why it won’t happen on Xbox Live. Ever. Live with it.

Having said that, your concept of how rank works in Halo 4 is flawed. Take a deep breath and think.

Both systems should be VISIBLE
Both systems have similar flaws

> > Boosting did hurt people though. You say that you like easier opponents, but what about the teammates of that booster who is basically a less skilled player in a high-level match. Their ranks are hurt from this. I’ve also heard something about how they can cause rank locking among better players when they lose their 50 from the purchased account and drop lower due to a mess of true-skill equations. I wish I could find the post that explained this better…
> >
> > 343 is trying to remove all of that.
> >
> > Let’s take a look at your logic now: 343 confirms a skill based ranking system and massively hints that only you can see your rank (fine by your critica). You then spam multiple threads explaining the importance of what was already promised.
>
> Okay. You made an actual smart move in your first few sentences. I actually believed you knew what you were talking about.
>
> Then you talked about rank locking. That was when you couldn’t go up anymore even if you won a ton of games. Guess what that means? THE NUMBER THAT YOU’RE ON IS YOUR TRUE SKILL LEVEL COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE. IT MEANT THE SYSTEM WORKED!!!
>
> Then you try to take a stab at my logic. 343i confirmed today that the skill-based system was hidden from everyone. It was in the live stream. I cannot see my own skill rank. 343i basically said, “Trust us, guys, it’s there.” This is what Bungie did with Reach, and it failed miserably.

Wasn’t my post that I was summarizing, and I probably left out some details as it was a while ago.

Rank locking didn’t just happen in just that one scenario though, the rank is taken from all your games played, meaning if you have a lot of games at a certain level, then many very good games in a row will be treated as outliers, so you could be stuck for a very long time just because you played more. However, on an alternate account, you would be flying up the ranks since there is less data for the system to go by.

I’ll give you an idea of what I’m talking about with a different stat: K/D. I was able to play Reach much more than Halo 3, meaning that since I have around 26,000 kills and 20,000 deaths, it is very difficult to get my K/D up, even though my daily K/D is always higher than my overall because of all those games of me sucking. In Halo 3 however, it is very easy to increase my K/D since I only have about 1,700 kills in that game.

I also made an alternate account in Reach that currently has above a 3.0 K/D as it only has a few hundred kills and doesn’t have those sucky games factored in.

I actually didn’t hear about what they said in the live-stream. Sorry about that…

I’ve never really thought about the idea that ‘rank haters’ want rank to be invisible yet the more level headed people that want rank don’t immediately start saying ‘well then your progression rank should be invisible too’… but it makes sense to do so. Why make your rank invisible yet not your progression rank invisible? I’ve run into way more Reach boosters than I have H3 cheaters, maybe not so much H2 lol. Why isn’t that concern addressed? Why allow casuals their progression rank, so they can boost for a higher rank, yet make people that want even, fair matches and a visible rank to show off their skill (what’s the difference between showing off your high progression rank or your high skill rank? both can be boosted/cheated to get higher) not able to do so. Oh the irony in all of this. Just wow…

So why is this being ignored? I’m confused.

> So why is this being ignored? I’m confused.

Because the competitive players are too busy having fun trolling, and the casual players are too stupid to understand a simple argument.

Thanks for the laughs, tonight, Waypoint!

> Both systems should be VISIBLE
> Both systems have similar flaws

See how easy that was. Why can’t most people get this, seems pretty simply to me.

Love how this got no response.